Kitfox III Short Field Take off/Landings

[kszaronos]

I have a Kitfox III with a Rotax 582. I don't have the paperwork on best practices for short field take-off/landings. Does anyone have the manufacturer specs and/or recommendations they can share? Feel free to email me the specs at kszaronos@aipc.com, call at 317-506-2854 or post reply here. Thanks, Keith

[SkyPirate]

I had a model 2 582 ,,for short take off I would hold back on stick power up holding brakes,..once take off RPM or wide open was reached ..keep stick back let her roll once she departs surface adjust stick for best climb rate,..for landing you have 2 choices,.either add flaperon on approach and bleed off speed to get about 400 ft per minute loss of altitude,..about 30 foot off surface give her just enough throttle to slow your decent,..when you touch down lose the flaperons to zero reduce power best to be in 3 pt position when your at touch down,..
your other choice..set up for final..get your speed to around 55/60 left rudder and right aileron a little back pressure on stick into a slip,..watch your speed and decent rate adjust with aileron and back pressure on stick ,.again when about 30 ft above surface straighten her out and 3 point..

before you do this check your tire pressure your suspension is partly your tire pressure if I remember right I had between 8 and 11 lbs pressure in my tires

try these landing techniques without actually landing so you get the feeling for the right decent rate and flare for stol,..if you've got the choice practice this on a grass field first

[kszaronos]

Chunk, thanks. I was thinking for takeoff I would hold brakes while revving up to full throttle, release brakes and move stick full forward to get tail off, then neutralize on stick for moment and the pull back for best ascent speed (55 mph). Thanks. Keith

[SS7Flyer]

You won't find any performance information published for flying your Kitfox. There are far too many variables and differences between each plane to publish that type of data.

For takeoff I like to get my tail up as quick as possible and then pull on full flaps while simutanously pulling the stick back. It'll jump right off the ground. Build up a little speed and then milk the flaps back out. Timing is everything. If you do it too early your tail will hit the ground and it won't want to break ground. Holding the brakes and running up the power will do nothing except suck rocks into your prop. For landing, chances are your flying a much faster approach than you need to be. The only way to safely reduce your approach speed is to practice practice practice and then practice some more. If you really want to get in short you have to get comfortable carrying some power and flying it on.

[Dave F]

I have a Kitfox III with a Rotax 582. I don't have the paperwork on best practices for short field take-off/landings. Does anyone have the manufacturer specs and/or recommendations they can share? Feel free to email me the specs at kszaronos@aipc.com, call at 317-506-2854 or post reply here. Thanks, Keith

Watch my videos on youtube --
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QBkJwadWqQI

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=itqyBYxU0lU

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ed1VRxzH0iU

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yg1qKTvHOAg

Kitfox ASI are not accurate at all. Find out where it flys indicated and Stalls at.
Use that for rotate + 5 mph to be safe.
Learn your plane and how it feels in slow flight if you want to do STOP ops.
Like Skypirate said - they all have different weight s -- your should be 450 to 500 lbs approx empty. But I have seem them at 600 lbs + empty with 582 so it really varies.
Fly safe and have a blast.

Hope that helps

[kszaronos]

SS7Flyer,
Thanks for the reply. I was a little ocnfused on your respnse for the Short Takeoffs. I am a relatively new pilot so I may not be grasping something.

You mention "to get my tail up as quick as possible and then pull on full flaps while simutanously pulling the stick back. It'll jump right off the ground. Build up a little speed and then milk the flaps back out." So on your takeoff you're starting with no flaps for intital take-off, putting on full power, moving the stick back to get elevator and sumultaneously pulling on full flaperons? Later once your off and picking up speed you're retracting the flaps. Seems like at the takeoff point with managing the stick and pulling the flaperons, there is allot going on. Am I misunderstanding? Do you mean you're just starting with full flaperons ON upon your intial take-off?

Thanks,

[Av8r3400]

Interpreting his technique:

1 - Power up full
2 - Stick forward to lift tail
3 - Speed to 25-30 (?)
4 - Pull in full flaps while pulling back on stick to "pop" plane off into ground effect
5 - Accelerate the plane to climbing speed while slowly retracting flaps

[jdmcbean]

CAUTION:
Different models have different airfoils, different flaperons and different controls. Therefore, I would be very careful! The Model 1 thru 3 type wings are a high lift design and most likely will benefit most by setting the flaps to your take-off position, lift the tailwheel only slightly above the ground and by then the aircraft is most likely already in the air.

[SS7Flyer]

If you are a new pilot then forget all of this short field stuff and just go out and learn your airplane. Even a very poorly flown Kitfox will use up half the runway of most certified planes. I do the majority of my flying from 500ft or shorter strips where technique becomes important but I had 100 hrs and hundreds of landings before I really starting seeing just how short it would operate out of. Most planes are much more capable than the pilot is. If you truly think your plane should be getting off shorter or someone has told you that it should be you might have another issue going on. The most common thing I've seen is inaccurate needle tachometers. People tend to overpitch their prop shooting for a certain indicated RPM on an gauge that is lying to them. If you don't already have one, invest the $40 into a digital Tiny Tach and make sure your turning 6300 ish on climb out. The last person I suggested this to was only turning 5800 when they thought they were turning 6500. A couple hundred RPM on takeoff with a 582 leaves ALOT of performance on the table! Enjoy your plane! A simple, light, Kitfox is the funnest flying I've ever done!

[Dave F]

Pulling the flap handle will do little on a mod 1 ,2 or 3......
flapperons total different on the mod 4 up ........

this has been a long time arguement for many -- alot used to limit the flap down movement to 20 degrees or less on the mod 4 which is likely a good thing for the in-expereinced pilots that do not want to take advantage of the extra lift that can be achieved.

Lets get back to model 1- 3 --
I never found the flaps offer a whole bunch other than trim...... you might gain a little better weight transfer from wheels to wings on soft ground or long grass but your gain will be very minimal. The flapperon travel is somewhat minimal and ther is no differential built in. Totally different animal than the later models.

FOr landing -- really no gains to be had --if you want to lose altitude -sidslip is best.

Learn your plane at altitude in slow flight -- spend hours feeling it out.
Cover up your ASI and learn the feel -- you will neeed this one day.

Cheers,

[kszaronos]

Does someone have a weight & balance for their Kitfox III? I got the forward movement for the plane as 10.2" and the backward one of 16.0" from Kitfox. I am use to seeing the CG more as a statement like my Loehle 5151 which reads "62.0 to 73.0 inches aft of Datum."

Send it to kszaronos@aipc.com or call me at 317-506-2854. Thanks! Keith