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View Full Version : Warp drive vs IVO?



Nathaniel
05-03-2009, 07:39 AM
Read both the web sites, almost seems like an even race. So for those of your flying, what do you think? Acquisition cost, replacement cost, maintainence issues, medium blades I assume?. My application would be KF SS, 100hp Rotax, ground adjustable. Thanks in advance!

DesertFox4
05-03-2009, 12:48 PM
I choose the Ivo prop.
The Medium for the 100 hp Rotax will serve you well. The ground adjustable is hands down the easiest prop to adjust. All of 30 seconds to adjust, then go fly to see the results unless you have to remove a spinner first but that applies to any prop.
No protractors needed to set the prop pitch. Maintenance is simple , if you get a chip in it it's an easy fix at the hangar or in the field. Now don't laugh. Crazy glue and baking soda in the chip and a small file and in about 5 minutes your off again. Keep proper torque and nothing but hours of trouble free flying. I highly recommend this prop.
Very smooth to fly behind and you will love the aerodynamic braking of the Medium should you want to come out of the sky at 2000' + per minute without overspeeding your Kitfox . On a recent test flight of a new Kitfox I saw 3000' negative on the VSI and was only at 110 mph indicated. With my "Light" Ivo I would have been over 140 mph (VNE). No way I can come out of the sky with the Light Ivo like the Medium Ivo flyers can.

My second choice would be the Warp Drive.


If you're going to be flying your Kitfox on floats you might need to consider the Warp as it does have a more substantial leading edge protection from water spray errosion but our experienced float flyers can jump in on that subject. Maybe the Ivo works well in that enviornment also but I have limited first hand experience with floats, darn it.

FYI - I have roughly 1300 hours behind Ivo props and most of the local Desert Fox Squadron members have gone to them but we are always on the look out for something new and exciting performance wise.

I'd would be interested in how the new S-LSA Kitfox 3-blade Whirlwind prop performs. It's sure a sweet looking prop.

Slyfox
05-03-2009, 01:31 PM
I love my medium on the 912uls. Now if you are doing the ground adjust because of regs, sport pilot. Concider this, put the medium on with inflight adjust, but, put the controls under the cowl with the engine. Can only be adjusted on the ground, thus a ground adjustable, but now you can change things with a touch of a button, on the ground.

Nathaniel
05-09-2009, 05:34 PM
Excellent writeup, thanks! Straight ground adjustable is the plan. The idea of the control under the cowl though, good one.

Slyfox
05-10-2009, 06:20 AM
I know it cost for the electric option. But if you do a bunch of back country flying and you need that extra take off boost, a quick touch of a button at let say your oil door, sure would be convenient.

Mark
05-11-2009, 07:06 AM
We used exactly this method on a 'demonstration' aircraft. We mounted the switch to a bracket on the engine mount where it was accessible at the oil door. You can hit the switch, then peak around the corner to check your MP. It was quick to adjust and worked great.

Nathaniel
05-11-2009, 10:34 AM
This thread has brought up an interesting question for me. I like the ground adjustable because it's one less system to install, and the Kitfox has such a narrow speed range and already great performance that I feel an inflight adjustable prop isn't neccessary.

That being said, is the added takeoff performance that much different? The aircraft can already get off the ground in what? Less than 500 feet, and cruise 110+mph. How much does the electric prop improve these numbers?

I'm curious. It still may not be applicable to my mission and build but you've got me second guessing my plans. Nothig wrong with that though, it's why I'm here.

Slyfox
05-11-2009, 03:30 PM
If you have the model 4 with the 912uls and medium prop. The ability to change the prop inflight. Well, lets put it this way. It's absolutely incredible.

Nathaniel
05-11-2009, 03:36 PM
Anyone have any ideas about the SS then?

DesertFox4
05-11-2009, 05:00 PM
Same thing with the Super Sport Nathaniel. The Super Sport if built light, 750 to 800 lbs will be wickedly exciting with a 912S and a Medium Ivo. This can be acheived easier than most would think if you start out your build thinking "lite".

The in-flight controllable Ivo will give you max take-off performance by allowing the Rotax to reach 5800 rpms or 100 hp. Anything less than 5800 is not max take-off performance regardless of the Model 4 or 7 Super Sport. Now 5800 is not necessary in most cases with a Kitfox but it can be nice to have the option when/if you really need it. Obviously the sport pilot rules will not allow you to have this feature available in the cockpit.
If you set a ground adjustable prop to max take-off performance (5800rpms) you probably will not reach 110 mph at cruise. You have to set the prop somewhere less than optimal for take-off to reach 110 mph or better at cruise so obviously the ground adjustable is a compromise at some portion of your flight. Actually it is a compromise at both take-off and cruise.
What usually happens is the ground adjustable prop will be set at 5200-5400 static rpm on the ground run-up and that will give you a decent cruise speed without over speeding the engine. The Kitfox being so agile at the low end of the speed range will be in the air long before most other aircraft even with this less than optimal take-off setting. Oh the joys of a Kitfox.
Bottom line is the ground adjustable Ivo prop while being super easy to change pitches and extremely durable and smooth will never give you max performance at either take-off or cruise.
If sport pilot requirements don't apply then by all means get the in-flight Medium Ivo. You will be amazed at the performance both at take-off and at cruise. The speed difference is worth every penny.:D

Nathaniel
05-11-2009, 07:12 PM
Thanks for the info Steve. I will have to seriously take a second look at a prop when I get to that point. LSA is not an issue for me, building it with the heavy gross weight too, so I could put the switch on the panel.

I see IVO now has a constant speed governor. Just plug in line with the wiring harness. Anyone?

DesertFox4
05-11-2009, 08:05 PM
Not so sure about the Ivo constant speed governor. I know a couple guys that tried them and removed them after fiddling trying to get them work. I don't see the need for the added complexity and the extra inputs into the pitch change motor throughout the flight. When Ivo brought the prototype to Phoenix to test in one of our members Kitfox years ago it looked interesting but my thought is spend the money on something more important or at least more wow factor. You definately don't need it to get max enjoyment out of your Ivo or your Kitfox. But to each his own.;)

Slyfox
05-12-2009, 06:52 AM
I put my prop on. No extra washers. Just threw it on. I can't do a static also. Why? to much power, the brakes don't hold. I take off, real short by the way, like less than 200ft. As I'm taking off I either have to, pull back on the power, goes over 5800 or touch the switch and bring down the rpm's. Either way is ok. If I want to get the heck out of dodge, than I just keep full throttle and touch the switch little by little until I'm cruising and at 5500. Simple, and FAST. Meaning I'm getting out of dodge FAST.

Nathaniel
05-12-2009, 06:55 AM
You can put washers on as a stop to keep it at 5800 max, right? With no governor I could manage it manually, but like the idea of a little back up.

Slyfox
05-12-2009, 07:01 AM
Ya, but if you like to take off and go straight up. You want all the rpm's you can muster.

Nathaniel
05-12-2009, 07:05 AM
What's red line on the motor, 5800 rpm? If you had full throttle and set the stops at low pitch to hit 5800 rpm, you've got max power.

Slyfox
05-12-2009, 07:36 AM
Ya, but you can lower the rpm's by pulling up. There is no way to static this type of thing in my opinion. Trust me, no washers against the motor and you get a great take off but you will need to hit the switch to repitch as you are flying out. Sooner if you just do a normal take off, not at all when your having fun. Placement of the switch is critical, I put mine right next to the throttle, my thumb is on the switch, the palm of my hand on the throttle, oh and friction lock is the way to go. I have down for less rpm, up for more rpm.

Nathaniel
05-12-2009, 07:39 AM
Sure, makes sense. You have no choice butto manage it all with no governor. That's a step up in price for a prop. Good thing I don't need one right away.

jdmcbean
05-13-2009, 07:33 AM
Nathaniel,

Give a call when you get a chance.. I am also looking at another governor.

DesertFox4
05-13-2009, 02:22 PM
Nathaniel, there are instructions for using the washer stops with the prop if you want to go through the little setup process. It's not hard. Did I do it? No. Like Steves , mine is right out of the box installed and flown.
I can easily go over 5800 rpms (which is redline) if not careful. I do have the switch in the same place Steve does for the quickest adjustments to keep me at max performance and just out of the redline for take-offs.
I also have the Grand Rapids Technologies EIS for the Rotax 912S. My rpm warning parameter is set at 5800 for extra precaution against over revving. I get a bright yellow flashing light in my face if it gets close. At the higher rpms on the Rotax it is difficult to hear if you are at or over redline (5800 rpms). The EIS really helps in this department.
The washer stops for someone new to the prop are a good idea and not hard to install. You can always remove them if you want after you get aquainted with the system. The Ivo in-flight adj. Medium prop and the 912S make a very formidable and reliable combination for getting the most out of your Kitfox. Now if Rotax only made a non-turboed 120 hp fuel injected four stroke four cylinder engine. :D

Renard
05-16-2009, 07:54 PM
I have an IVO prop with the Merle Williams modification for installing the electrical connection to the motor. I am a little intimidated by the sparseness of the instructions. Has anyone used this mod. Any problems getting it to work?:confused:
Chuck

DesertFox4
05-16-2009, 10:51 PM
Charles , Williams prop controller pickup is great. I've been using them since about 2000. Keeps the pickup contacts behind the gearbox out of the weather. Much cleaner looking than the stock pickup Ivo includes. Nice item. Very simple but ingenious.
Only drawback is if someone is running a Rotax vacuum pump on their engine I don't think it can be used. Murle is always happy to assist over the phone if you need him. I don't think I've seen the instructions so can't help you there. Murles' phone number is 602-978-0553.

P.S. Our favorite aircraft kit manufacturer also carries this style Ivo prop. controller in their new parts catalog.

Slyfox
05-17-2009, 05:55 AM
I use that mod also. You need to open the electric motor, the three nuts and pull the wires out the front, than drill two holes in the cap, and feed those wires through. than at the base of the motor, outside, drill holes so you can pull the wires from the mod to the outside of the motor. Make sure you DON'T operate the motor while those nuts are off. You WILL make a mess of things.

Caballo
02-20-2010, 08:30 AM
Is anyone flying the medium ground adjustable IVO prop on a Kitfox with a 582 engine?

DesertFox4
02-20-2010, 08:54 AM
My first impression would be it's too much prop for a 582 but a quick call to Ivo would be in order. If you call, let us know what you find out.

IVOPROP CORP
PMB # 330
15903 Lakewood Blvd.
#103 Bellflower CA 90706
562-602-1451
or
1-800-for prop (1-800-367-7767)

ivoprop@pacbell.net

av8rps
02-21-2010, 08:38 AM
I heard that IVO only wants you to use a medium 2 blade on the 582 due to harmonic vibrations with the 3:1 gearbox. In fact a Kitfox that Gary Algate (Not sure if he's on this list or not) used a IVO medium inflight with his 582 and as I recall he loved the set up as he flew floats mostly.

Paul S

Caballo
02-21-2010, 10:31 AM
I e-mailed IVO yesterday and will follow up with a phone call on Monday. Thanks for the input; I'll post what I find out.

Mark
Kitfox III - 582 (#1050)

jdmcbean
02-21-2010, 03:46 PM
IVO does indeed recommend the 2 blade IVO on the 582. We have sold many of them with good results. The In-Flight adjustable will definately give you the best overall performance although the ground adjustable is quick and easy. The prop controller is also available with installation instructions. If there is a vacuum pump and or the engine prop shaft is of the type 3 (can't see through the center) then the controller will not work.

Monocock
02-23-2010, 03:45 AM
Caballo,

I am using a Medium Ground Adjustable Ivoprop on my Mk 4 with a 582 if that is of any interest?

PM me if you want.

Rgds

Caballo
02-23-2010, 08:07 PM
Ron at IVO prop sent the following reply.

What is the gear reduction ratio?
2.58 or 2.62 use Ultralight Left turn viewed from the rear 3 blade 68
inch diameter.
3:1 use meDium 2 blade 68-72"
3.47:1 use meDium 3 blade 68-72"

Not a very talkative dude, but anxioius to make a sale.

Mark
Kitfox III- 582 (#1050)