Making a lexan windscreen and turtle deck

[gizmos]

Has anyone made a windscreen and turtle deck out of lexan? What thickness did you use? Smoked? Did you bend the windscreen cold? Where did you find 5ft wide material for windscreen if you make the long version? I would like to order from kf, but the cost has went up and still I have to purchase my 912. / instruments. Trying to keep cost down and get my bird in the air.

[HighWing]

I have done three windshields, but have always used the aluminum turtle deck with the lexan windows so no experience there. I have heat formed Lexan for various projects. Lexan can be brake bent in the thickness you will be considering to make a turtle deck.

Originally for the windshield, I think the Speedster used eighth inch, but it was unsuccessful because of the curvature around the wing root. It would craze and ultimately break. I just checked the minimum bend radius in a manufacturer's data page and it is 100 times the thickness. for eighth inch it would be 12 inches - much greater than the two or so inch radius at the wing root. Currently I have the .093" - 3/32" and it is crazing - minimum bend radius 9 inches. When this one needs replacement, I will go to the .060" - 1/16" it will craze as well, but minimally - minimum bend radius 6". which is what I had on my first Model IV.

The issue is, what speeds are you planning on getting out of your Series V. The word at the time was that the increased VNE on the Speedster was a function of the windshield thickness. With my thinner material - .063", I would get some air pressure deformation on occasion when diving near VNE to lose altitude. I never got any deformation when cruising at normal engine settings. I think the speedster went to the .093".

I have always installed it as a cold bend. Some have used a heat gun to release stress at the wing root, but I was always reluctant to do that because Lexan absorbs moisture and if taken to temps above 250° the moisture will form bubbles within the plastic, clouding the clarity. Recommended forming temps exceed 340°. I have no experience with the heat gun, but others claim it works fine. I have tried to vacuum form undried Lexan and it will not only cloud up, but it will result in visible bubbles and distortion on the surface if taken to recommended forming temps. The typical home builder won't have the equipment to bake a sheet of Lexan at 225° for several hours.

I have found no problem cutting a windshield from a 4 ft wide sheet. My current windshield is exactly 46 inches wide at the widest point. You might want to fit your cowl and measure the sweep distance between the door posts to see if a 48" wide sheet would work. I just measured the length of my windshield and it measures about 48" from the turtle deck to the forward edge. I have found that buying part of a sheet is nearly as expensive as a whole sheet. The online site I just checked won't ship a 48X48 inch sheet. It can usually be found locally, though. The local store I use carries Macrolon brand.

[dynomike]

I would second the 16th inch from local glass shop 98 bucks for 4x8 sheet.more for smoked.bent easily

[Av8r3400]

Or you can get the molded plexiglass part directly from Kitfox (manufactured by LP Aeroplastics) and be done with windshields for the lifetime of the plane.

I have one of these on my plane. No crazing, no distortions, no worries of stoving in, either.

[WISDAN]

I agree with Larry, bending lexan at the wing root caused crazing on mine. The extra money would be worth it in my view.

Dan G.

[HighWing]

At three times the weight and ten times the $$$ for acrylic, it remains Lexan for me. I got 900 hours out of the original with one replacement on my first Model IV.

[cubtractor]

I made my windshield out of .120" lexan. It worked out great. Heated it with a heat gun. It can be done but you have to be careful and take your time. I practiced heating some lexan and bending it to get a feel for what it was going to take. I had cut it to shape using the old windshield as a pattern, leaving a little to trim around the edges for a fudge factor. I fastened it to the top of the plane and then started working the curvatures for the front of the windsheild.

[gizmos]

Thanks guys! Off to buy lexan tomorrow. It is a shame is not .030, I have over 100 sheets 4x8 that I use to vacuum form r/c car's bodies from. Got my cabin vents in from kf today, got a little glass work to finish. Not that I have enough to do, I pulled my RV6A down today for its annual, not to fly, just work. I built a n11 last year but have not flown off its hours,so I can fly it out of Burbank airport.

[gizmos]

P.s. did you use the same thickness for your door windows?

[jrthomas]

I damaged my Lexan windshield a couple of weeks ago and did my research to find a replacement. I went to a couple of websites and found some very good place with good prices that I could order from but the shipping was several times the price of the Lexan. Lowes could order it but only if I ordered a minimum of 3 48"x96" sheets. I talked to a nearby plastics company but they didn't seem interested in helping me. I called Home Depot just to check if they might have a sheet in stock. They didn't but a very helpful person suggested I call a local glass company which I did. Brad with Rice Glass in Carboro, NC said to give him a few minutes and let him check. He called back about 10 minutes with good news. He could get the standard Lexan (3/32") or an "aviation quality" Lexan with, supposedly better quality. I went with the aviation type even though the regular Lexan works just fine. The prices were good and no shipping charges. I bought a full sheet even though they would have sold me a half sheet. They even cut it in half for me to be easier for me to transport at no charge. I picked it up yesterday. I went with the LP acrylic the 1st time around. It was a horror story, too painful for me to go into again. I'd advise anyone to run from it. Lexan is light and super easy to work with and much more reasonably prices. Acrylic doors are great but the windshields problem area is around the front wing spar, ready to split at the slightest pressure. Some have done ok with the but I've heard other horror stories like mine. Sorta like working with nitro, one little slip, all gone. James Thomas

[gizmos]

Do you still put the false rib in the middle if you are making the long version? Do you still install the false spar( the alum or steel "t" that goes between the butt ribs?

[gizmos]

I am ready to install windscreen but my manual does have the pages. Does anyone have photos of how it mounts to glare screen and how it is attached to front post? Thanks I have my 1/8 lexan and waiting for a buddy to send me a template

[gizmos]

Thanks for help, they turned out great! $170 did the complete plane,windscreen,turtle deck door glass and have enough to do a spare windscreen ! Save me almost $900.00 which help with the cost of the 912

[gizmos]

Another photo

[SkySteve]

Gizmos, looks great. Nice job.

[SkyPirate]

Looks awesome! Just for future reference, if there is a race track anywhere close, its a requirement of sanctioned tracks that the cars have lexan windshields, usually there is a vendor close by the track that supplies lexan and other safety products, fuel lines etc

[gizmos]

Thanks for info . I raced NASCAR mini stock and dwarf car for 6 yrs. I have a vacuum forming machine to make lexan bodies for rc cars. I bought these sheets from a local glass company, these were higher quality than i normally use.we had a110 temp day when I made mine, got lucky. I had a pattern, that is the secret ! I used racket straps to help form it. I then used my heat gun for monocote covering for rc planes. I used my temp gun to make sure I did not exceed 300 degree. If you heat it to much without baking the complete sheet at 200 degrees, you can get gas bubbles. It took me about 4 hrs to work the sheet to form/ installed. The guys on this form is great! Makes life easy

[mike@waco]

Not long ago I bought a model 1 that has never been finished and I'm at the windshield turtledeck stage now. Problem is no windshield material and no pattern. Does anyone know where I could acquire a pattern to work with? I'm sure lexan can be picked up local and I've read comments on thickness that's helpful. Thanks, Mike

[HighWing]

Mike,
Since all other Kitfoxes are different when it comes to exact mounting hole location and cowl position, your first windshield will be unique. Once installed, it becomes the pattern for all subsequent windshields.


For the first install, start at the back, position and clamp the top, You can also drill and cleco to the butt ribs working forward. Cut for the front spar carry through bend then clamp against the door posts. On all rough trimming make sure to leave some excess sides and bottom because once the cowl is installed, the windshield material will have to be moved to snug up against the cowl lip. Once everything is fitting well, drill the mounting holes and do the final trimming.

[gizmos]

I made my windscreen and turtle deck cover from lexan, they turned out great. Save lots of $ if you have the time. I have a question on the gap cover between turtle deck and winf. The stock aluminum cover has two small aluminum pieces that you attach to cover. With the lexan cover , do you make them from lexan or paint the aluminum fillers and attach to lexan with rivets?

[War Eagle]

I have seen them done both ways. I have also seen them left off completely.

[SkyPirate]

Sabic Plastic's out of Chicago has .060 x48"x96" bronze/clear/smoked lexan ..the bronze is $89.16..cost of shipping was $39 UPS it can be rolled for shipping

my response from Sabic:

Subject: Bronze Lexan


.
Chase,

Your e-mail was forwarded to me from our manufacturing site. We do stock .060” x 48” x 96” bronze Lexan in our Chicago location and can roll & ship for ground shipping. The charges you would incur would be $89.16 for the sheet plus tax and approximately $39 packaging & shipping.

Thanks,
Tom

Tom Mareschal
Branch Manager
Polymershapes

SABIC Polymershapes LLC
12934 Hollenberg Drive
Bridgeton, MO 63044
T 314-738-0088
F 314-738-0095
M 314-369-6954
tom.mareschal@sabic-ip.com (tom.mareschal@sabic-ip.com)
www.sabicpolymershapes.com (http://www.sabicpolymershapes.com/)

Polymershapes is the world’s largest distributor of plastic sheet, rod, tube, film, and associated products, with 70+ years of industry-leading heritage.
· Same-day delivery from the industry’s largest inventory – thousands of quality products from trusted manufacturers
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[LSaupe]

Thought I would shoot this out for feedback.

Just pulled off the paper on my winshield to find crazing in the wing root corners (about 4" long). It is acrylic and measures out at an even 0.100".

Can this be flown as is in the near term, or is crazing an immediated need for replacement?

If needed, sounds like Lexan at 1/16" would suffice as a good replacement?

Larry

[avidflyer]

I don't think I would use a cracked pre molded windshield. Plexiglass cracks, unlike lexan. I would use .090 lexan if your plane will do 100 MPH or more, otherwise .060 should work for slower speed planes. I used .060 in all my Avid Flyers. The MK IV with the Jabiru would start to buckle back at top end, about 100 MPH. Jim Chuk

[LSaupe]

Thanks for the feedback. This is a Model III and wasn't (isn't) a premolded windshield (in case that makes a difference).

[t j]

Mine is .093 in. thick. It has been on the plane for 16 years now. The wing root corners crazed after about the first 5 years. I splashed gas on it near the bottom front a year ago and it cracked about 3 inches.
I have a new sheet of 1/16 in (.062) I plan to replace it with.

I'll get a photo today for you.

[avidflyer]

When you said you pulled off the paper on the windshield and found crazing, I right away thought of a premolded windshield made from plexiglass. Lexan will often craze after time in that tight bend, but lexan doesn't crack like plexiglass would. Being as your windshield is already fit and mounted, it's easy to take it off and use it as a pattern for the new one. Probably will be ok for a while as is though. Maybe a picture or two would help give us a better idea on the right answer. :-) Jim Chuk

[kmach]

Chase, are you using the .0625 bronze lexan for the windshield ?

[t j]

LSaupe, here's my crazed windshield. This is the .093 thickness lexan. The crazing at the wing root corners has been there about 10 years. The gasonile crack happened last year. I plan to replace it with 1/16th In. thickness in the next few days.

8904

8905

Gasoline Splash cracked it here. This crack has moved up about an inch in the past year.
8906

[jtpitkin06]

I still have a new in the box clear windshield up for grabs. Read the story in classified.
John Pitkin

[LSaupe]

Thanks Tom:

Here is mine, looks a bit worse than yours.

http://i733.photobucket.com/albums/ww339/LSaupe/Kitfox/DSCN3314_zpsqlzbta1x.jpg

http://i733.photobucket.com/albums/ww339/LSaupe/Kitfox/DSCN3315_zpssgpt0ydh.jpg

http://i733.photobucket.com/albums/ww339/LSaupe/Kitfox/DSCN3316_zpsyt3npkfl.jpg

[SkyPirate]

Kevin,,no my wind screen is clear .090 , I'm using the .060 bronze over head, the short section behind windscreen and turtle deck,..doors..side windows .

I'd probably have it done by now but just had to dump $20K in a new HVAC system,..so maybe next week

[t j]

Lsaupe, it looks like ,most of the cracks in your windshield start at the cut edge. The edge looks to be the raw saw cut. It should be rounded and smoothed as much as you can. I started with a file, then 120 grit sand paper and finished with 400 wet and dry using water with it.

[skonie]

I need advice on my lexan windshield which is the preformed version.
I screwed up and cracked it near the wing root area. What are the best options? I stop drilled it but am worried the stress will eventually crack it further. Should I try it as is stop drilled or cut out the piece that is cracked. The wing root fairing would cover if I cut the cracked piece out.
Thanks

[mr bill]

If the windshield is preformed it is acrylic, not polycarbonate. Mine also cracked and not wanting to spend another $600 plus shipping, I repaired it with crazy glue, after priming with Loctite 770 plastic primer and a patch on the inside surface. I have not yet finished the outside surface. Structurally very strong.

[jimcarriere]

For repairing cracks with a stop-drill hole or just holes mistakenly drilled in the wrong locations, bonding a doubler is an acceptable repair- AC43.13 will tell you how much radius the doubler should cover around the crack/hole (something like 1" or 1 1/4," best look it up). Weld-On #4 adhesive is perfect for the job, but if you want to save money (hazmat and shipping charges) then generic contact cement/crazy glue is strong enough and legal (you're building an experimental). The main problem with contact cement it is it dries milky.

[Spook712]

I did, I used macrolon, claer and did a cold bend.

Turtle deck is still the old one, but if anyone did one from lexan, i would like to know how.

Greets
Tuna

[Jfquebec]

Hi...i insatall my windshield from LP...after what i see on the forum...i dont want force anything...so at first for me it is impossible to are flush on both side door post...because like that i need to force each side (1" each side) to put the 8 clecos..so if i push to the tail everything on door post are better,,,i said better beacuse i need 3/4" again...so i put two washer from screw for steel roof..they have rubber on one side...so with some pressure i can cleco each top bracket..

But everything are cleco now...when i put my first part of the cowling (winshield side) the curve of my window are not very nice..( maybe 10 years of sitting on the floor:eek:)
So i try ,after taking some info..to heat the lexan with Iron at hi temp..to curve some scrap lexan..with an part of tissu on iron ( i dont want to scratch me winshield)and it work:rolleyes:
So i try on windshield slowly...beforee i put a kind mastercraft big vise grip with rubber ..i put that vise on center of windshield and i push and hold the windshield about 2.5"and i heat it with my iron...now it is not perfect ..but mucho better...
Jf

[kmach]

I believe the LP aero windshields are made of Acrylic.

[SkyPirate]

I dont know if anyone touched base on this but you can cold bend lexan in a break, for making a turtle deck out of lexan alone, it can not be M-5 or M-10 lexan it has to be standard lexan it can be tinted, best to use a Die break over a box or finger break unless you have one where you can adjust for thickness, add 20% of the thickness on an adjustable finger/box break from the leading edge of fingers to the edge of lower plate edge
On a die break use a .03 radius edged knife or 30• degree die, dont use a 90• degree die, you need to go past 90•degrees during bending procedure, if you have some scrap left over after cuttting blank do a practice bend on scrap

[DesertFox4]

That is how I fashioned my turtledeck Chase so I know what you are describing will work. 800 plus hour in service. I also attached a piece of extruded aluminum brown window screen frame lengthwise up the middle of my turtledeck to keep it from canning in flight or during taxiing. Riveted it in with brown rivets to match the tint. Works great, weighs almost nothing.

[SkyPirate]

I replaced all my lexan with tinted except the windshield awhile back , love it👍 i was going to make a replacement for my metal framed turtle deck but opted to hold off, and just do the lexan, i have thought about making 2 latches that would be released by a lever behind the seat so the turtle deck could open like a hatch back, still in the thought mode with that one 😎

[Spook712]

Could you guys post some pictures of your lexan products 😊

[metalman]

I used lexan on the doors,turtle deck and skylight ,,bad mistake, just a splash of 98 ULP and it's stuffed, the doors lasted about 8 months but every drip from the fuel drains attacked the lexan , and although I'm really careful I slipped with filling from a jerry can the other day and slashed a bit of the skylight and now it has to be replaced ,I've already redone the doors with acrylic ( Perspex ) and will do the roof the same. Perspex is a bit less forgiving to work with but handles spills much better
Matty

[Bushfox]

Need a kitfox 5 turtledeck 989-728-3684