Kitfox on floats, fully loaded, runway length?

[AndrewSpagnolo]

Hello, I recently purchased a piece of land that I have big plans for, and it is next to a small body of water that looks like a L. Each length of the L is about 2000 feet long, and my property line actually extends out into the water, covering a about 2.5-3 acres, with the longest length being about 750 -800 feet. Now the long lengths, I do not own, but there are no houses and only trees surrounding the whole thing. I was thinking, i could come in low off the water, and land as close to the property line as possible, and coast into my water, though that would only give me about 1000 feet total, with trees on one side... If i hit the 2000 foot length strip, i wouldn't really land in my water, and i would have to taxi in. There is only one small rowboat anywhere to be seen around this lake, and no houses or people. the land is owned by timber companies, all except my little plot... Now, I plant to produce some seriously valuable products on my land and use the plane to get it to various large distributions centers in the area, so it would need to be able to land on regular air strips as well... Anyways, I am all really new to this so any advice would be appreciated. I did search the forums and didn't see any numbers for taking off on water, and wondered what people thought about this situation. Also, what kind of mph and mpg can you get with floats on? Floats can land on regular paved runways too, but not in field, is that right?

Thank you and have a wonderful day! I am so excited that I might have this opportunity to fly!!

[Esser]

I don't know where Falls Church is, but if it's in Canada you can use all 2000' of that lake legally. As for a fully loaded Kitfox on Amphibs I really don't know what your take off length would be as it really depends on how long it takes you to get on step. I would say that for a new pilot who is new to floats, 2000' is too short.

You would be better off taking a piece of your property and making a dirt strip. For the price of a good set of amphibs you can hire a bulldozer to knock down all the trees and grade. You would still have money left over. Now you have a plane that is lighter for carrying your products to everyone. Also cheaper insurance.

[AndrewSpagnolo]

Thank you for getting back to me Esser, But my property is no where near level enough to do that. It's either lake or nothing from my property, or I have to redo most of a 2 mile road, and use the commercial airstrip already built down the road if I want to fly(which I really do!)

[AndrewSpagnolo]

OK, OP question remains unanswered. I understand there is some variance here. What I am looking for is approximate stats for a kitfox loaded with floats(cruising speed, mpg, take off and landing distance, climb rate). Assume the pilot is well trained and skilled, what is reasonable? Floats can be used to land on airstrips too, right, just not on dirt or grass i would imagine?
This is what I need to know before pursuing this endeavour.

[Esser]

Amphibs are floats that have retractable wheels to land on pavement. The disadvantage is that they are heavy and if you land on water with the wheels down you will flip over. But yes you could only land on a very smooth grass runway with amphibs.

I really don't know how a kitfox performs on floats so someone else will have to chime in on that.

I have a friend who has 2000 hours on floats and he says for a small plane to have a home based lake, 2 miles minimum. Sure you can get down in 2000' IF the conditions are good but if the wind is wrong or the lake is "glass" where you cant tell where the water starts it can take a long time to land. If you had Amphibs though, in bad conditions you could go to the local paved strip.

[AndrewSpagnolo]

Thanks for getting back to me again Esser. After seeing your post, I read this article about amphibs and don't see that as a good option at all, too risky. What if the wheels get stuck down, or god forbid you forget to put them up, and die, and anything to keep insurance costs down is always a good thing. I am a little disappointed, because I really like this planes stats and was hoping I would be able to make it happen, perhaps it is just best to go with more of a boat plane for this sort of location, like a searey or something. Hopefully down the road at some point i will have plenty of land for a private strip, or just the resources necessary for hangar space at the local airstrip and whatnot! Thanks again!

[AndrewSpagnolo]

Honestly though, I think you are wrong. I think this plane can probably get off the ground in about 300-400 feet of open water with amphibians. From videos I have seen, it looks like it gets off the water in about 12 seconds from rest. it it takes off at 50 mph, it could not travel more than 450 feet in that time. with a body of water over 300 feet wide and 2000 feet long, seems like an excellent natural runway is already built for me.

[Dave F]

Honestly though, I think you are wrong. I think this plane can probably get off the ground in about 300-400 feet of open water with amphibians. From videos I have seen, it looks like it gets off the water in about 12 seconds from rest. it it takes off at 50 mph, it could not travel more than 450 feet in that time. with a body of water over 300 feet wide and 2000 feet long, seems like an excellent natural runway is already built for me.

First off you had better let us know what model you have
what the weight is
what kind of floats
what engine

They are all contributing factors


Let us know what you got.

[AndrewSpagnolo]

Oh, I don't have one. What i have is a piece of land next to a body of water as described. I am considering the prospect of accessing it via small plane and using said plane to bring things back and forth to develop said property with efficiently and effectively. Plus it would be really awesome to have, so that is something I am working towards.

[Dave F]

Oh, I don't have one. What i have is a piece of land next to a body of water as described. I am considering the prospect of accessing it via small plane and using said plane to bring things back and forth to develop said property with efficiently and effectively. Plus it would be really awesome to have, so that is something I am working towards.

If you want a Kitfox you will want a 912S powered plane.
amphib floats will take a beating on rough runways.
min investment 40K

[AndrewSpagnolo]

Thanks for getting back to me Dave, what I guess I am trying to find out, is if it would be better for me to go with a searey or a kitfox considering my situation. What is a better investment of my time and money.

[Dave F]

Thanks for getting back to me Dave, what I guess I am trying to find out, is if it would be better for me to go with a searey or a kitfox considering my situation. What is a better investment of my time and money.


not sure of performance on this one but......


KITFOX ON AMPHIBIOUS FLOATS (http://www.barnstormers.com/classified_785181_KitFox+on+Amphibious+Floats.html ) • $35,500 • AVAILABLE FOR SALE • KitFox on Czech 1150 Amphibious Float, Continental O-200, 3-Blade Warp Drive Adjustable Prop, Spar mod,14-inch fuselage Mod, New 23 gallon Aluminum Fuel Tanks, Light-Weight Cub-Style Wing Tips, 55 Hours Since Restoration, 600 SMOH on engine, STOL - 6 sec off water, land gear and brakes included. •

[Av8r3400]

That is one heavily modified Kitfox! Looks good...

[AndrewSpagnolo]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IRcLOiruBOo

This is what I am talking about. Off the water FAST! Both of these would work no problem!

[Av8r3400]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IRcLOiruBOo

This is what I am talking about. Off the water FAST! Both of these would work no problem!

If you like that, you'll love this: http://youtu.be/qjDSatUSoCY

Nothing like keeping it light...

[AndrewSpagnolo]

Omg wow!!!

[Dave F]

Here is a video of Kitfox vs the Beaver both with 582s
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3oydv9uBxt4

I kitfox was about 15 seconds off the water
both got amphib floats.
Same Kitfox on my grass srip is off solo on amphibs in about 400 feet
dual about 600 .........

[AndrewSpagnolo]

If you want a Kitfox you will want a 912S powered plane.
amphib floats will take a beating on rough runways.
min investment 40K

So, as much as I would absolutely love to be able to spend that much, I would really like to get something that works for about half that...

[WWhunter]

I am sorry to burst your bubble but unless you are extremely lucky, you are not going to find an aircraft on amphibs that will haul much of anything other than your butt, for $20K (half the stated $40K). Even finding something around $30K will be difficult unless you have the money in your pocket and find it before anyone else.

You may find a one seat ultralight or ragged out plane on floats for that amount but when it comes to amphibs, nothing is cheap. Generally speaking anything on straight floats starts at $30K and the price skyrockets from there. You can find Champs, Chiefs, J-3's, etc. on straight floats in the mid to high 30's, but then you are regulated to water landings only.

I currently own two different float equipt aircraft. I bought them 'for a very good price' and have +/- $40,000 in each. One wa without floats but I purchased a set after buying the plane.

I was lucky in finding a set of Full Lotus amphibious floats with rigging for less than half their original price. These things retail for over around $12K+, so you are talking about a substanial investment to go to amphibs.

If you check this link: www.harborsportaviation.net/Pages/default.aspx (http://www.harborsportaviation.net/Pages/default.aspx) you will find a few planes for sale.

Actually the floats I purchased are the ones in the 11th picture down on the left side on the home page of the above listed link. (The yellow/white RANS S-7 on Full Lotus 1260s.)
The owner of the plane sold it to someone in Ill. and the new owner has no need for amphibs so they sold the floats to me.:)

Your option of the Searey may be the cheapest avenue in the long run. I have seen them for decent prices.
Good luck!!

[Dave F]

good luck on 20k /amphibs

here is one i saw at Sun N fun in 2011

SEARAY http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MvAIpMwlDFs

[kitfoxnick]

Maybe floats is the wrong direction. If you have a clear approach over water, I would think a 500 foot strip that ends at the waters edge would be more than enough.

[Dave F]

Good point....
but 500 foot strip for landing would challenge alot of pilots, especially heavy planes. for newer pilots it would be risky.

[AndrewSpagnolo]

Guys, I was thinking about it the landing strip from the water approach, and it really might work out great, with about a 2000 foot approach over the water. The runway, just wouldn't be completely flat, but would have a little curve to it, so I would come in and land on flat ground, then the ground would ramp up to about 5-7.5 degrees after about 200 feet, then could coast strait for about 1000 feet more... Then I could turn it around from up there, accelerate down the hill, level out at the bottom of the runway, and take off over the water...

[kitfoxnick]

That sounds perfect. Up hill landings are great for short landings. With a thousand foot you have nothing to worry about. Mow a strip and I'll come check out out.

[Geowitz]

At first I was concerned you were reaching for a solution that didn't exist with the options you have, but what you are now thinking, if accurate in length, sounds quite feasible. Check this out...

Downhill takeoff, uphill landing, no go arounds

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r2MFEJY3SPQ

[AndrewSpagnolo]

That sounds perfect. Up hill landings are great for short landings. With a thousand foot you have nothing to worry about. Mow a strip and I'll come check out out.


Right on Nick, I'll let you know when I get it done, hopefully by late fall... Thanks again, btw my property is in South Central VA, Charlotte county, not Falls Church.

[AndrewSpagnolo]

At first I was concerned you were reaching for a solution that didn't exist with the options you have, but what you are now thinking, if accurate in length, sounds quite feasible. Check this out...

Downhill takeoff, uphill landing, no go arounds

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r2MFEJY3SPQ


Looks very similar to my situation actually, just have about 4 years of unmaintained under growth and need to get it graded right :) I have at least 800 feet, but probably over 1000. :)

[AndrewSpagnolo]

Actually, it probably won't happen sooner than by next spring...all things considered.
If I can get up in the air by late summer of next year, that would be amazing.

[CulverKF]

Very useful information. Thanks to all.
I have a question regarding the HXLXW of a KitFox 4 on Full Lotus Amphibs.. I am designing the barn now to store it. Does anyone know how tall the tail will be? Also, length and width.
Much appreciated in advance.
Dave