New member questions about build

[JBAZ]

Morning all! New member here. I would like some insight into the skills required to build an S7 SS. I would take advantage of the quick build wings and most likely utilize a 912S. I have built many scale r/c planes, up to 50% scale and have built all the ribs for an experimental Fisher Dakota Hawk from spruce, but that is all. I have simple woodworking tools, router, belt sander, drills but no machining equipment, rivet guns, welders etc. I have plenty of indoor space to build and a good budget. I have followed a few build logs here and there but most seemed to construct the wings themselves. I am a pilot in training and if I build the SS would train at Stick & Rudder. I have been in contact with the factory to get shipping estimates and delivery times.

Any info or directed links to appropriate links/threads would be appreciated.

JB:)

[HighWing]

In short, I think you have it all. Many of the build steps might be first timers at that particular skill, but your experience tells me you already have the ability to pick up new things easily. I have built two Model IVs, finished a "V and there are not any steps that a person with basic tool skills couldn't accomplish - especially with the occasional advice from those who might be just a step or two ahead of you. Think of it as building a full scale model with an excellent set of plans.

[JBAZ]

HW, thanks for the input. I was in SoCal on Easter checking out a Dakota Hawk (plane I have built ribs for) and that plane, which was beautiful BTW, is 37.5hours into Phase 1 testing. I know about the de Havilland Mosquito and all, but all that wood is making me nervous! Not to mention that much of the aircraft graded spruce I received was warped/twisted due to climate differences in AZ (gets brittle during the shipping) not sure I want to trust it after re-acclimating it with humidity! My wife saw the crooked spruce and said, your not going to use that wood are you!!!???

JB:)

[HighWing]

...much of the aircraft graded spruce I received was warped/twisted due to climate differences in AZ...
JB:)

The difference between the factory wing build option and the builder build is the rigging and assembly. All ribs and spars are prefabricated by the factory. Some trimming of the spars are in the instructions, but that can be done with hand tools if necessary. The ribs are of top quality Finland Birch plywood factory jigged and assembled - need epoxy varnish. Some minor trimming on some ribs might be necessary, but only minor stuff.

Regarding the Dakota Hawk. I doubt there are structural issues with wood warping. Aerodynamic issues possibly, but the 37 hours in phase I suggests that the airplane is flying straight and true.

[chefwarthog]

The woods that use in the Kitfox kit are made from plywood, this meteriel is more resistent to warping that solide piece of lumber and few parts are made from plywood, all structure are Precision welded 4130 Chromoly Steel like Fuselage, Rudder, Stabilizer and Elevator, the wood parts are there just to give the proper shape to the lifting ant directional surfaces!!

I really think that the Kitfox Super Sport, is one of the best kit that you can purchase (quality vs price) for a fun plane to fly!!!

[JBAZ]

Resale is also an issue that I have been considering. Since I am planning on a glass panel (EFIS/EMS) and a 912s, I can easily put either $50k into the Hawk total or about $65 or so into the SS. I think the most I could expect to get out of the Hawk would be $25-$30k, being that it is less known, only 30 flying and of course it is wood. Seems the resale of the SS (if you could even find one for sale) would be much better AND more potential buyers.

Most of all for me is the availability of flight training in the same type of aircraft.

Seems like I am talking myself into the SS!

JB;)

[jiott]

Here is what sold me on Kitfox:

Brand new plane for the same price as a very used certified aircraft.
Folding wings so I can share hanger space.
Kit quality and aircraft performance.
Factory support.
Demo flight was awsome.
STOL capabilities.
No welding and nearly no solid riveting.
Rotax 912s engine reputation and fuel economy-about half the burn rate at cruise compared to most certified Cessnas, Pipers, etc. and the ability to use auto fuel.
Build manual is the best out there.
A factory visit impressed me with their organization, neatness, cleanliness, fixtures. A class outfit.
Side by side seating.
Useful load capacity.
A long successful and safe history. About 4000 planes built and flying I beleive.
A very beautiful and pleasing to the eye airplane. Just look at some of the slab sided, breadbox looking competitors out there.
Mine is now nearly done and ready for AW inspection. The build went well without any problems and I would recommend it to anyone.

Jim

[kebopa3]

JB,
I'm a long way from being done, but to date I would say that my biggest two issues have been:
1. Developing a workflow.
-Read the plans
-Think about how I want to accomplish the detailed task
-Gather the parts
-Read the plans
-THINK ABOUT IT AGAIN
- Do it
2. Stopping when I'm done with that task.
-It is easy for me to get into the building mindset and not stop and think about what I'm doing or how to accomplish it in a manner I'm going to be happy with when I done. I have a few extra holes here and there but I suppose that will offset some of the fluff weight I'm sure to add later.

I would second Jim's comments, great kit, just follow the directions, anyone with a basic skills set and modest tool supply can accomplish.

I'm sure you will be happy if you decide to join the "Family"

Kebo

[JBAZ]

Kebo and Jim thanks for the insight. May I ask, are you using the quick build wings?

Do you need to build a long workbench for assembly? Reason I ask is that would be my next step with the Hawk build, that is, to build a perfectly flat 4 x16 foot table. I have the spar material to construct the spars already so I may just build them and then decide which plane to build. I have only invested about $1k so far and maybe 100 hours in building 26 full ribs and 24 false ribs. A lot of joy in building those ribs actually, the smell of spruce is nice ;)

Ahhhh decisions.

JB:D

[kebopa3]

JB,
I have most of the options including the quick build wings. Not because I was afraid I couldn't build them because of the time factor; a 60 hour work week, family.....

Take a look at the photo albums, you will see some talented people building some beautiful aircraft. Here is a link to Bob Myer's Facebook page that will give you an excellent overview of the build process:

http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?s...1&l=9f3a0c208e (http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.100305216809224.453.100004892370248&type=1&l=9f3a0c208e)

Just an example of many.

Kebo

[HighWing]

Do you need to build a long workbench for assembly?
JB:D

If you were to opt to build the wings rather than buying the Quick Build option, two sawhorses that are parallel to each other on top is all you would need. In the earlier manuals - can't speak for the new ones specifically - the saw horses were fixed to the floor with Bondo during the wing build.

[kebopa3]

JB,
Here is link to Tom Waid's website, where is documenting his build. Tom opted to build the wings and does a great job giving an overview of his build to date. The link below will take to his wing page

http://tropicaltuba.com/Kitfox%20Project/Kitfox.htm#Wing%20Assembly

Kebo

[JBAZ]

Kebo thanks for the links. I spent a couple of hours last night reviewing Bob M's build. Will check out the other link tonight. Nice to see there are/were some SS builders within driving distance too!

JB:)

[jtpitkin06]

I built a wing jig in the morning and had a wing assembled by that evening. Both wings were assembled and rigged on the fuselage in three days. It was an enjoyable project and not difficult.

To be fair, I did use a vertical mill to cut the bird mouths in the spar reinforcements. That chore on the mill was about 30 minutes including setup. Doing that with a hand saw and files would take at least a day.

Even so, I don't think a builder saves any significant time with the quick build wings when you look at a year or more for the total build.

John

[HighWing]

Even so, I don't think a builder saves any significant time with the quick build wings when you look at a year or more for the total build.

John

I couldn't agree more. I am sure it took me longer than a day - it probably took a day for me to rig and secure the fixtures, but over the course of the five years it took to build my first project it really didn't set me back very much.

[JBAZ]

From the input you have all provided and reading a few builder logs it seems very "doable" on my part. Thank you all for the insight. Broaching the subject of resale value, am I correct in my line of thinking? I could only find one SS for sale and it has an o-200 (I don't think a -D motor), Dynon glass for $53k. I have been expecting that whatever I build it would sell for less than I spend on it, not looking to make any $ just not to build a decent plane and have it sell for less than 50% of my real $ investment.

JB

[Dorsal]

I think you are quite safe planning on resale < 100% but > 50%. Based on what I have seen, resale around 80% of your original investment seems about normal.

[JBAZ]

I have to admit that I am very "lacking" in the engine/powerplant knowledge area. Besides installing gas motors (2-strokes) in the 50-100cc range on my r/c planes, I have very little knowledge in the engine department. I have been reading "Firewall Forward" by Bingelis just to get some basics, but the book was published before the 912 was in use. So my question is: how difficult is the engine installation of a 912? I would especially like to hear from any of you who had little experience with powerplants (if there are any such builders) that were able to succssfully accopmplish the task.

Thanks,
JB:)

[Dave S]

Hi JB,

I found the installation of the 912ULS engine per the manual to be quite straightforward. No voodoo involved at all. Pretty much all understandable mechanics and little or no art required.:)

Hanging and installing the engine and engine systems (fuel, oil, exhaust, induction, electrical) was fun, interesting and didn't take long at all.

A couple comments - hoses, wires, etc under the cowl need to be routed in a secure manner to prevent chafing or heat damage - a person has to think that through a bit since the general instruction to do so doesn't necessarily include every possible detail a person can run into.

The deal is...if you follow the manual it is hard to go wrong.

If you belong to an EAA chapter (if you don't belong - go join a chapter), the association has a tech counselor program which can be real useful in getting coaching on acceptable practices in aircraft construction. It's hard to beat a face to face consult in the presence of your project with someone who has seen a lot of bulding and repair.

Sincerely,

Dave S
KF7 Trigear It was not voodoo at all.
912ULS Warp Drive
St Paul, MN

[JBAZ]

Dave, thanks for the info. I am an EAA member and there is a local chapter about 40 minutes from me. I was planning on bringing a few of my wooden DH ribs to have them examine them (chapter pres is building a wood biplane). The Hawk I saw had a 912 uls installed and it was the builders 1st airplane build (still in Phase 1).

JB