cabin heat

[HansLab]

Now I finally get into thinking about cabin heat I don't know how to handle..So I'm asking for your help - again.
I know that most KitFoxes use the coolant system as a heat source. However, I am sort of afraid of the small space available against the FW.
An alternative could be air heat: I know Jabiru heats their planes that way.
I now want to attach an aluminum bracket to the muffler, and put air (at first not forced) to a valve, in the bottom range of the FW.
My question is this: for those of you that actually fly a KF: how high are these temps, gained this way? Will this set-up be enough to warm me and my passenger enough? Or will my feet burn before my passenger is warm enough to notice?

Tx in advance,

[Av8r3400]

I don't understand your concern with using the coolant through a heater core like in an automotive application. I have a setup like this in my flying plane, using two box-computer fans to circulate the air through it and it warms the cabin nicely down to 10° F (-12° C).

Simple, effective and no worry of getting exhaust gas directly into the cabin.

[n85ae]

I have a heat muff heat on my IO-240B exhaust, and I fly wearing a flightsuit
with long underwear and an insulated liner in the flightsuit. I'm comfortable down
to -10F the plane has a little bit of draft around the back of my neck, and my
shoes feel like they're about to melt. I'm always comfortable, and if I ever need
to sit in a field I've got enough clothes on to stay warm and not freeze to death.

I always felt like I should be dressed for some of the places I might have to
land the plane if the fan stopped, so heat is not that big a deal. Mostly
keeping warm feet is enough for me.

Regards,
Jeff

[Dave F]

I have made heat muffs on exhaust on many planes including Kitfox.
I can fly comfortably at -25C with no gloves on for 2 hours flights.

Using coolant works good as well. Also taking heated air from the back of radiator helps too.

Seal your drafts and behind your head around wing roots and turtle deck is a real help.

I am uploading a new kitfox video right now -should be done shortly.
Check it out and subscribe to my channel on you tube -- I got almost 300 videos up now. No music just real flying.

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[HighWing]

I always felt like I should be dressed for some of the places I might have to land the plane if the fan stopped, so heat is not that big a deal. Mostly
keeping warm feet is enough for me.

Regards,
Jeff

This reminds me of an experience. When I was test flying my first Model IV, I was provided some hangar space by a guy who flew out of Beal AFB. His current assignment then was U2s. He also flew the final operational mission of the SR-71. - he was building a Series V. A buddy of his had a Cessna 140 that he flew to keep current and went flying once on a day just like today in the Sierra Foothills. Heavy frost, but as they say, "Severe Clear". After he got back all he could talk about was his poor planning. He flew over the western slope of the Sierras - high altitudes and heavy snow - with nothing but light clothing. Although nothing untoward happened, it want against all his training.

This brings up another story. We - our flight of 6 - was returning from a week in the Idaho back country and as we were approaching the Sierras, our 582 powered member of the group was having some climb issues as it was late in the day and the air temps were a bit on the high side. We landed and the rest of us unburdened him of his camping gear to lighten him as much as possible. As we proceeded West, it became apparent that he still wouldn't be able to climb to the altitude he needed to clear the mountains. He suggested that the five of us proceed home and he would turn around and land and spend the night in a motel. That sounded OK so the five of us continued on. It took him a couple of years before he told us the rest of the story. After the radio conversation and the five continued West, he found himself in a sort of bowl that he couldn't get out of, so he landed on a road planning on spending the night in his airplane. Bad to worse - Yes. He had nothing except his light flight clothing and the temps at that altitude get pretty chilly overnight. After spending some hours trying to keep warm, he decided to dump most of his fuel. Being near minimum flight weight, he was able to fly back to an airport as originally planned.

Both stories reinforce Jeff's idea. Then the thought - how about keeping warm stuff in the baggage area and wear light? This is worthy of some serious thought as when I put my airplane down for oil pressure reasons, we both suffered significant injuries and how long it would have taken to drag ourselves into the baggage area to find our sleeping bags is the unanswered question. As it was, we "landed" about a mile from a fire station and across the street from the home of the guy that heads up the El Dorado County Search and Rescue Unit. Kay still will ask - what would have happened if the oil pressure problem had occurred 30 minutes later. My response always is - We would have been in the middle of the Desolation Wilderness Area.

All this is worthy of some serious thought
Lowell

[War Eagle]

Yes, very appropriate thinking on being prepared.

I never had an emergency problem in my flying but was hunting with a party on two different occasions where we had some unexpected results. The first one where one of the hunting party got lost and spent the night in the snow. He wasn't well prepared for that and while he was found the following day by the search and rescue team, he suffered physically.

Second time a different member of the team was out and couldn't get back to camp before dark. In this case he had all the emergency stuff he needed in his pack for just such an occasion. He also had to spend the night out in the snow but he had food, extra clothes, fuel to start a fire and a gps and radio so we knew he was ok and where we could find him when we had daylight.

The whole party learned from the first experience and now we all behave in a manner that we are expecting to have to stay out overnight and have the gear to do so even when there is no snow.

[rogerh12]

When I upgraded my Zenith 601 VW engine to a water cooled head, I thought, Great, now I can have some real winter cabin heat by putting in a heater core and piping the hot water to it !!!!! Well, I yanked out my simple, light weight, small and fairly effective exhaust pipe sourced heater and installed a heavy, complicated and hard to fit water sourced heat system. After I put it in, I came to my senses. This thing must add 20 lbs to the plane, and now pipes my vital cooling juices into my cabin where it can be kicked and leak out, or worse, spay all over me when I am flying !!!!!

I pulled the whole thing out and just improved the old simple light weight exhaust sourced system by adding chicken wire inside the exhaust heat shroud (which gives more surface area to pickup the heat). Plus, I just wore my coat when I fly in the winter (problem solved).


That’s just my experience of course in a non-kitfox, but I bet my conclusions still apply to many kitfox owners.

Roger

[n85ae]

Lost an engine once, and was lucky and made the airport. It completely changed my
perspective. MIght sound paranoid, but ...

I'm very close to Chicago, but just a few minutes flying can put you over countryside
where if somebody didn't see you go down, and you should happen to get hurt on landing,
you could be there for a while. Just sitting injured for a few hours in a plane with no heat
and light clothing could be enough to kill you in really cold weather.

I also have a couple el-cheapo live preservers I toss in the plane any time I fly along
the lakeshore as well.

Jeff

[jsimmo97]

Folks.... needing some help with m Kitfox IV 582. The prior owner had a heater core installed in the cabin and I'd like to hook it back up. Question? Does it matter where you tap into the coolant system for both inlet and outlet to the heater core? If so, can you detail what the best setup is for max heat and maybe even add some pics of the engine-side setup not the heater core itself.

Thanks!

~Jason
Austin, Tx

[Dave F]

Folks.... needing some help with m Kitfox IV 582. The prior owner had a heater core installed in the cabin and I'd like to hook it back up. Question? Does it matter where you tap into the coolant system for both inlet and outlet to the heater core? If so, can you detail what the best setup is for max heat and maybe even add some pics of the engine-side setup not the heater core itself.

Thanks!

~Jason
Austin, Tx


Great we finally back on topic about cabin heat.

Plumb your heater off of the left side of your 582 to get maximum heat before the radiator. And you can dump the exiting coolant back in just down stream from that point.

Just landed from Kitfox 2 and a Rans -- living the dream.

btw no heat in either one or survival gear LOL

[Dave F]

Lost an engine once, and was lucky and made the airport. It completely changed my
perspective. MIght sound paranoid, but ...

I'm very close to Chicago, but just a few minutes flying can put you over countryside
where if somebody didn't see you go down, and you should happen to get hurt on landing,
you could be there for a while. Just sitting injured for a few hours in a plane with no heat
and light clothing could be enough to kill you in really cold weather.

I also have a couple el-cheapo live preservers I toss in the plane any time I fly along
the lakeshore as well.

Jeff

Yes - dress for the worse - take along your survival gear as well.
I had instances years ago where the Feds gave me crap for pencil entry in logs -- I said dude -- ball points don;t flow well at -40 Chuckles

[cap01]

jeff is absolutely correct , in a matter of minutes a person could be down in something like this . they dont even try to keep the roads open on this side of the mountain in the winter . i carry around 20 lbs of extra gear in a helmet bag strapped in the right seat along with a plb in the map box .

[akflyer]

I have a heat muff on my exhausts and love it. Actually I have 2 heat muffs. The first is on the down tube just below the elbow, then the main one is on the expansion chamber. Air comes in from a scoop in the front of the cowling, through the first muff on the down tube, then into the main heat muff and into the cabin. I fly at -30F routinely and never had any problems getting cold. That being said, I also fly in my winter snowmachine gear (nothing more than fleece pants and top with a gortex shell over it) and good boots as I fly remote areas and many times in a crash you only have what you are wearing to protect you from the elements.

I can comfortably fly with no gloves at any OAT and have done a couple 2 hrs flights at -30 with the door open when I broke an exhaust spring and the CO detector turned black in a matter if minutes. I just opened the door and continued home as there was really no where for me to safely set it down.

The other 2 planes I flew with the heater core in the plane just didnt move enough air through them to even keep the windows defrosted.