912 cost?

[jetsrforkids]

I see the list prices for a new 912 seem to be in the $21,000 range. Is that what people are actually paying. Does anyone have experience with some of the rebuilt engines I occasionally see advertised? My experience is mostly with Lycoming/Continental, and I'm comfortable going used with them. The 912 looks like a more precise piece of equipment, so I'm more wary of a rebuild.

[Esser]

http://www.rotec.com

Those guys have factory zero timed engines for 5 to 7 thousand less

[Av8r3400]

Where did you get the $21K figure and what model does this correspond to?

Just talking with a friend associated with LEAF and he said due to the falling value of the EURO versus the dollar, the price of Rotax engines has recently dropped and could continue to drop (depending on the politics).

Kitfox is also a distributor of 912 engines. John McBean has posted prices here for them before maybe he would update us on what he is getting now.




I've also heard rumors of a turbo charged, fuel injected 9XX model coming soon directly from Rotax that would be in the 140-150 hp range. :eek:

[jdmcbean]

Where did you get the $21K figure and what model does this correspond to?

Just talking with a friend associated with LEAF and he said due to the falling value of the EURO versus the dollar, the price of Rotax engines has recently dropped and could continue to drop (depending on the politics).

Kitfox is also a distributor of 912 engines. John McBean has posted prices here for them before maybe he would update us on what he is getting now.

I've also heard rumors of a turbo charged, fuel injected 9XX model coming soon directly from Rotax that would be in the 140-150 hp range. :eek:

The Rotax pricing adjusts quarterly and is based on the Euro... It has adjusted both up and down.. most recent was down..

Current Pricing for the Rotax Engines... Valid until the 1st of Jan 2013 (Although Kodiak is closed from the 22nd fo December)
912UL $16387
912ULS $17672
912iS $23918
914UL $30135

9XXi-Turbo ??? Rumors only at this time and is speculation...

[Twister]

I see the list prices for a new 912 seem to be in the $21,000 range. Is that what people are actually paying. Does anyone have experience with some of the rebuilt engines I occasionally see advertised? My experience is mostly with Lycoming/Continental, and I'm comfortable going used with them. The 912 looks like a more precise piece of equipment, so I'm more wary of a rebuild.

Now I'm wary too, seeing that there were no responses to this question . . .

[Av8r3400]

I've never seen an ad for a "rebuilt" 912. I have investigated overhauling/rebuilding my 912 at LEAF (my local Rotax shop) and they quoted me quite a large range depending on what is needed, from $5k to $10k.

The reason for the large range is often there are very few parts needed to "zero time" a 912. Due to the superior oil control and internal design they often don't even need machine work or pistons after as many as 2500+ hours. I was told that a "properly" maintained and often run motor may need little more than "soft" parts (Gaskets, seals, hoses, etc.) after the disassembly and inspection.

[Twister]

I've never seen an ad for a "rebuilt" 912. I have investigated overhauling/rebuilding my 912 at LEAF (my local Rotax shop) and they quoted me quite a large range depending on what is needed, from $5k to $10k.

The reason for the large range is often there are very few parts needed to "zero time" a 912. Due to the superior oil control and internal design they often don't even need machine work or pistons after as many as 2500+ hours. I was told that a "properly" maintained and often run motor may need little more than "soft" parts (Gaskets, seals, hoses, etc.) after the disassembly and inspection.

Thanks for the info; most interesting. I thought the only "authorized" facility was in B.C. Canada. Where is your shop?

[Av8r3400]

There are three major Rotax shops in the US.

Lockwood (http://www.lockwood.aero/) in Florida

LEAF (http://www.leadingedge-airfoils.com/) in Wisconsin

CPS (http://www.rotaxparts.net/Scripts/default.asp) (California Power Systems) now owned by Aircraft Spruce in California.

[Jch]

What accessories are recommended when ordering the 912 uls?

[Dave S]

Hi Jeff,

Don't know if I would call this recommended accessories, probably better to consider it a partial list of what is available, what some have tried, and consider what a person wants in their specific plane. Each experimenter is going to come to different conclusions.

The major accessories that are available include: 1 Oil cooler...; )2) an induction system airbox, which has been discussed recently on this forum; 3) belt driven auxillary alternator, which is used to provide additional electrical power over the integral alternator (depends on your design load for your electrical system); 4) propellor controller/governor if a person has a constant speed prop which requires one.

There are minor items which a person might consider accessories: 1) auxillary/backup electric fuel pump; 2) The fuel system pressure bleed (maybe not the correct name for it) which helps prevent hot soak starting problems (flooding) particularily in hot weather. This was discussed on forum threads this summer/fall. 3) Carburetor heat....not many Rotaxes out there with this but there are at least two versions out there, a) conventional heated air intake carb hear and b) Electric carb base heaters.

This might not be an inclusive list; and, there are likely additional ideas out there.

Our Series 7 has the oil cooler, airbox, aux alternator, electric backup fuel pump; and hope to install the fuel pressure bleed.

Sincerely,

Dave S
KF 7 Trigear
912ULS Warp Drive
Flying

[jiott]

Some additional items, not supplied by Rotax but available from Kitfox:

Oil thermostat-highly recommended.
Cabin heater
Remote mounted oil pressure sensor-highly recommended.
Exhaust system.
Engine sensors:

EGT
Manifold pressure
Fuel pressure
Fuel flow

Air filters do not come with the engine.
Fuel filter does not come with the engine.
Throttle & choke cables do not come with the engine.
Jim

[Jch]

Thanks for your replies and info. I have so much to learn. I was hoping to order the 912uls in December to beat a jan price increase and I would like to get as many of the accessories at the same time. I have a whirlwind 3-blade. I looked at aeroled lights at the Aopa convention last month. I have a mx-170b radio and transponder from a previous plane and am looking at a dynon flight deck 180 or the D-1 and ems-d10. I would like to be able to use the d-1 as a back up in another plane. I mention this because I am wondering about the aux alternator mentioned by Dave. All of Jim's suggestions seem necessary. I feel my wallet getting lighter. Maybe my wife will just get it all for me for christmas. I've been good! Jch

[DesertFox4]

Jch- it is likely you will not need the aux. alternator. With the high useage of L.E.D. lighting now days, including landing, nav and strobes, we just don't have the power drain like we did 10 years ago. The 912 series engines are working just fine without the added complexity and weight of the aux. alternators. Well that is unless your adding heated seats, rear window defoggers and power door locks.;)

[Dorsal]

I have lights and a glass panel and have had no trouble running without an aux alternator.

[HighWing]

Thanks for your replies and info. I have so much to learn.

With the quote in mind, I would buy the engine to beat the price increase and wait on the other items. As time passes and you think about what you will want and then what you will really need, the other items can be picked up. They are pretty much off the shelf items and generally not that pricey.
Lowell

[Dave S]

Good morning,

1) With Lowell's response in mind......he is 100% correct. I ended up paying for an engine twice because of the sky#%@$ bankrupcy. I immediately ordered an engine from Rotax once I realized I was not going to get the original one I paid for. Had I waited, the second engine would have cost me several thousand dollars more.

2) I should have indicated the specifics of my system in my first post regarding use of the Aux alternator. When I made the decision to install the Aux alternator, my DAR was not very comfortable with LED lighting systems at the time because it was in the early stages of people utilizing them. Basically he told me...get the standard strobes and lighting and there will be no issues with getting your certificate....use the LDSs and you will have to develop the data and prove they meet the certification standards for aircraft lighting on your specific aircraft. The consequence is my lighting system plus the normal stuff would have been more than the primary alternator could keep up with. Right now it is a different world because the LEDs are well proven.

Sincerely,

Dave S

[HighWing]

...my DAR was not very comfortable with LED lighting systems at the time because it was in the early stages of people utilizing them. Basically he told me...get the standard strobes and lighting and there will be no issues with getting your certificate....use the LDSs and you will have to develop the data and prove they meet the certification standards for aircraft lighting on your specific aircraft.

DARs scare the what ever out of me. In the day, I put Whelan strobes in my first Model IV for the same reason. Most of the guys were using a non certified strobe that I was led to believe didn't have the lumen output that satisfied the standards. Then after spending 2X the cheapo price, the examiner didn't even ask me to turn them on. This time, I put in clearly home brew LEDs - Kitplanes design - the same thing. I guess it is a crap shoot - depends on who you get and what their focus is. In the Sacto area the FAA will do the inspections and they are all over themselves with the NTSB study on EAB accident statistics. They worked hard to make sure I didn't become an embarrassment to their office and focused pretty much on airworthiness issues.
Lowell

[peanut]

What exactly is the difference between the 912 UL and ULS?

[birddog486]

What exactly is the difference between the 912 UL and ULS?

The UL is 80HP and the ULS is the 100HP.

[Dave S]

The way the engines get the different HP includes a difference in displacement (ULS a little more), Compression Ratio (ULS a little higher)...which also requires a minimum 91 Octane (R+M/2) for the ULS rather than 87 Octane which the UL will live on quite nicely. There are a bunch of other smaller differences. Visually, the ULS has green colored rocker arm covers while the UL has black.

A complete rundown on features of each can be found on Rotax's website.

Dave S
KF7 Trigear Flying
912ULS Warp Drive