Kitfox down

[deejayel]

Well, no one hurt much, a few scrapes and bruises, but the IV-1200 didn't fare so well. She had come to a quick stop and flipped right over on her back.
By the time I got to the field, she was back on her feet. She looked very unhappy. I got her back in the barn and cleaned up so I could assess the damage.

Now I didn't build her, but now I may get a good taste of what the builder went through. But I need some help to get me going. I don't know if all kitfoxes are similarly damaged when this occurs. But this list may ring bells for those who have seen this. I Kinda need to know if this is a totaled bird.

The worst damage that I can see is the fuselage is bent pretty good aft of the turtle deck and forward of the stabilizers. I haven't cut the skin to see the extend of the damage. It is almost so bad that I thought the fuselage was completely separated at this point. Is getting an new fuselage frame my only option?

So from front to back...Spinner, blades, engine inspection and appropriate mounts/hardware. The bump round cowling took many hits, rudder/brake pedals, Windshield/overhead(1 piece), fuel tank caps, rudder and the main strut-to-wing attach fittings. AND the fuselage skeleton. That doesn't account for anything I may find when I tear is apart.

So, where to start?

[Av8r3400]

Photos would help this evaluation... :confused:

[deejayel]

Ill try to get some pictures this weekend.

[jtpitkin06]

We've had a few airplanes at my airport wrapped up in a ball that came back to life. Time and money are required. With a tube aircraft, it's often a case of more time than money.

Where to start? Assuming your first step would have been to the insurance claims office. If they have settled or you've purchased the salvage...

1. compete disassembly. Remove engine, interior, wings, stab, rudder, etc.
2. remove all fabric covering. Wings and fuselage.
3. Have a tube/fabric mechanic look it over with you. Two of you will find more things than either of you, alone.

Once you have a list of the damage, start taking measurements to see how bent things are. Resign yourself to the fact you will get very good with an angle grinder and a gas welder. Come-alongs and a torch for heating can get a lot of fuselage members back in place. Badly bent parts will need to be cut out and replaced. There's a lot of good info on how to do the repairs in AC 43.13

In the wings you are looking for obvious bends and broken ribs.

Not an impossible job, but it will take a lot of time. Many an airplane has been rebuilt with nothing more than a data plate from the original.

John

[ClickClickBoom]

AC43.13 will be the standard unless your A/C has a Structural Repair Manual.
Opportunity for a huge learning experience, the silver lining!
Eric

[deejayel]

Thanks for the advice.

I guess now that the dust is somewhat settled, I can take a better look at what needs to be done. FWIW, I am an A+P, but other than a touch here and there, I don't have real experience with tube and fabric repair. I guess I was also getting tired just looking at how much work needs to be done. That was part of the reasoning behind finding a turn-key bird. I own two other airplanes(not near as fun as the KF), and keeping them airworthy seems to be a full-time job some days. I just finished a 2 year restoration on the family cherokee 6. Of course these projects are never really finished...

I'll try not to throw him under the bus, but posting this question may possibly do just that. My co-owner who was flying the plane swears that both brakes locked up and over he went. um,ok,um...thoughts? Matco brakes, pilot side only, plane has 70hrs. I had flown it 2 hours prior and experienced no ill effects... I know anything is possible. I would not have warm and fuzzy feelings getting back in the airplane after repairs if these brakes have a tendency to lock up shortly after touchdown.

So I'm leaning to giving it a go. If nothing else, it will give me more valuable experience. I do have time--I suppose...:)

[kitfox5v]

The $100,000.00 question. How much taildragger time does he have?:confused:

[deejayel]

He spent many years in ul taildraggers. Many hours. This was his first airplane taildragger however.

But I have seen taildraggers get away from high time pilots as well as low time fliers.

[cap01]

Brakes locked up , they must be way better brakes than my matco .i do well keeping the plane from rolling just doing a mag check .

[akflyer]

Does he have big feet? It is possible that he got on the brakes and got his toes hung up and could not get off them. I have had that happen to me in my avid, but as others have mentioned, it is darn near impossible using stock matco brakes to lock them up enough to go over on its back.

When I got mine the fuse was buckled and bent behind the turtle deck as you are describing do to a gear leg failure and a trip to its back. Totalt time of cutting and welding to replace buckled tubes in the fuse and a new rudder post was under 7 hours. While I was at it, I welded in gussets on the side of the fuse to totaly plate in the lower longerons from the firewall to behind the strut attach point. My gear may fail, but I dont think the fuse will buckle right at the seat truss anymore.

Tube and fabric is way easier to replace and straighten than aluminum and a million rivets!

[deejayel]

Thanks Akflyer. I'm glad to hear this may be an easier project than I initially had expected.

The engine is at the overhaul shop and will be back at the house in less than 2 weeks.

Im leaning to the 3 blade ivo ul ground adjustable prop and polished spinner 68"

My engine mount is bent as well. Ill post in the wanteds, but does anyone have a rotax 2stroke mount hanging around after your 900 series upgrade?

Akflyer, did you strip the fulselage from nose to tail? Or just aft of the turtledeck to the tail?

[chefwarthog]

Taildrager..... he know just how much brake and tail down force but une day he might flip..... but he is in control!!!:D

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdHkpq7GMuc&feature=g-all-u

[Av8r3400]

Steve doesn't even need a tailwheel on that plane! He wears that thing like you would wear your favorite pair of jeans!

As a side note, he is running a modified 912S in that plane. His engine builder shaved the pistons to lower the compression and added a turbo kit from someone like Bully Hawk (http://www.bullyhawk.com/). Apparently it's making somewhere in the 140 hp range.

[deejayel]

Whats the difference between the 3 and the 4 fuselage? There is a "2 or 3" fuselage kit on barnstormers. Might save me a bunch of welding repair

[avidflyer]

I can't tell you the difference between the 2 and 3 fusaloge offhand, but I do know that the liftstrut attachments are in a different location between the 2 and the 3. (If my memory is correct, the liftstruts are longer on the 3, so the brackets are farther out on the wing.) If someone can give you the distance between the fusaloge and the liftstrut bracket on their 2 or 3 wings and then you get the seller to provide his dimention of the same, you will know which kit it is. I saw that add also, and if I was closer, I think I would buy it cause it sure is low priced. You could use what you need and part out the rest and maybe end up with what you need for nearly nothing. Take care, Jim Chuk

[deejayel]

Got the plane stripped down today. Everything but the instrument panel. Got most of the damage bent back into some semblance of a fuselage. Plenty of pipes needing replacment, but that was to be expected.

Hopefully by the end of the week Ill have this thing on the welders rack.

[avidflyer]

Sorry guys, I must have been not paying attention yesterday when I commented on the differences between a Kitfox 2 and 3 when the question was about the difference between a 3 and a 4. One big difference that I can think of between a Kitfox 3 and 4 is the flaperon controls behind the seat are totally different. The Kitfox 3 uses the design copied from the early Avid Flyer, but the Kitfox 4 controls are a completly different design. I think that the 4 also has 2" more headroom, but am not positive on that one. Also, the verticle stabilize/rudder is taller on the later Kitfox 4s. I'm just guessing here, but maybe the fusaloge is also longer on the 4. If someone who has a Kitfox 3 wants to measure the distance from the rear wing attchment point to the front of the horizontal stabilizer and also measure from the floorboards to the center of the front spar, I'll measure my Kitfox 4 project and we can compare numbers to see if there is a difference. Take care, Jim Chuk

[avidflyer]

I took a tape measure with me and got some dimentions from my Kitfox 4 Classic 1200 today. Measuring from the center of the front spar, straight down to the floor, I had 3' 1 1/2". Measuring from the center of the rear spar attachment point to the front of the horizontal stabilizer, I had 8' 1"
The verticle stabilizer from top to bottom was 4' 6". If someone could measure their Kitfox 3 in these points, we can gain some info perhaps. Take care, Jim Chuk

[Dutch]

All model 3 fuselage dimensions are the same as the model 4 except the tail is 3'11" and the spar carry through tubes are a thinner gauge. That is why the model 3 is rated at 1050 and the model 4 is rated at 1200 gross weight. The controls are also different. In order to install model 4 controls in a model 3 a lot of tubes have to be cut out and new ones have to be welded in. I have a model 3 with the model 4 controls,wings,tail feathers,and upper rear cowl. Except for the fin height it looks just like a 4.

Dutch

[cap01]

Dutch , there are a few other differences between the 1050 and 1200 gross weight airplanes . My model IV is a early one and is a 1500 , small vertical and rudder . There are mods that were accomplished by a previous owner that supposedly increased the gross to 1200. The new Kitfox won't endorse the mods and its not clear if skystar did , It appears that they did . With the 1200 mod the wing strut diameter was increased and on mine a solid rod was installed in the fuselage tube that connects the lower wing strut attach points . Luckily this is well documented in the builders log and with pictures . According to Debra at Kitfox the tubes for the bungee support structure aren't as beefie on the 1050 airplanes . Again it's not clear if the grove gear would suffice as an upgrade to the bungee support since I have seen references to the gross weight increases pertaining to seaplanes versions. It appears a previous owner had intentions of making mine a seaplane as I have that fin thing that goes under the tail of a seaplane
Hope this didn't get too confusing

[Dutch]

Chuck. I think your right about all that stuff. I over simplified my answer to point out that the physical dimensions and attach point locations are the same. I have a set of the model 4 flaperon control and wing mod. plans from Skystar
and in them they sure hinted that after installation your plane would be considered a 1200. About the gauge and wall thickness of the various components all my info is anecdotal gleaned from this forum and talking to people. To the best of my knowledge nothing definitive has ever been published on the subject.

Dutch

[deejayel]

Rebuild is coming along.

Engine overhauled. Fuselage welded, rudder welded. Stewart Systems is sending me enough material to cover the fuselage back up. I believe i have a completed shopping list for kitfox to be placed on Monday.

Does anyone have a Rotax 2-stroke engine mount? Mine got tweaked and i would rather purchase a replacement than attempt to fix this one.

Plenty more to do, but I'm happy with the progress!

I know by stating this, I'll be jinxing myself, but I am hoping for a March 1 flight test....

[cainbird]

I have a mount off a model 4 that was removed for a 4-stroke conversion. It mounted a 582. Is in very Good condition and I dont have any use for it. Don't know what it's worth so make me an offer.

Cain Blackbird
1-413-824-4958

[deejayel]

Very interested in the mount. Thanks! I sent you a text...

[deejayel]

Status update.
I haven't spent as much time and attention to the KF as I would like this past month. My other bird was crying for help. And I must keep one plane flying at least! So my March flying date has been moved to April:(

Getting the pieces and parts back into the fuselage. Got the elevator control tube built and installed. I ordered all new rudder assemblies--got them installed. The bird originally had pilot brakes only, but with the copilot MC's in a box. So I'll go ahead and install those now too. I'd leave them off, but I'll be soon teaching my son how to fly. Engine mount came in the other day--Thanks Cain!
Dang rod end bearings are hard to find! I need 2 lift strut and 3 rudder rod ends. Pricey little suckers from KF....
Still debating on the prop. The 72" IVO medium 2 blade ground adjust is calling my name. Tennessee and Culver are in line too..

Otherwise, she's coming along. nothing time and money won't fix. I guess I'm enjoying it..I guess...

[deejayel]

4839

She's flying again!

[GWright6970]

:DYES! :D Time to CELEBRATE!!! :D Well done! :D

Please let us know how she flies! (With pictures!)

[deejayel]

She flies great. Very happy with the way it all turned out. Definitely took longer than i estimated, but i had a few other airplane projects that distracted me.

I'll get some more pictures soon. I need to find a big oak tree and get some classy shots.....