butt rib end plate

[darrell pralle]

re part number 52933 tagged as a plate, butt rib end. I have nothing in book to tell where it goes, also no pictures. thanks for any help, darrell

[jiott]

I think that is aluminum plate stock for making your butt rib closeouts from the butt rib ends to the front and rear spar carry-thru tubes. A very difficult little project.

Jim

[War Eagle]

Here are pictures of the butt rib ends made from the auminum sheet pieces.

[darrell pralle]

thanks guys. very helpful

[dc910sn]

Any more info on the butt rib end plate would be helpful. looks like they are only needed on the front butt rib? Is there a template or more of what they are suppose to look like. also how to attach to the rib.
Thanks,
Ted

[jiott]

The butt rib closeout cuffs are probably the most fussy and challenging part of the whole project and it is an area where you get almost no help from the build manual. The following thread gives some good information on how some of us did it:
http://www.teamkitfox.com/Forums/showthread.php?t=5264&highlight=butt+rib

[jiott]

It seems a lot of guys (including the factory I think) are not bothering to install any cuffs on the fore and aft end of the butt ribs. Their only purpose is cosmetic and to keep out cold drafts. A good tight fit around the carry-thru tubes is only necessary if you want to try to seal out all drafts from this area. Even if you do, there are plenty of other places drafts will come in. Some guys just stuff foam into these areas in the winter.

On mine I fabricated them from 0.012" aluminum sheet and used Hysol to attach the pieces together and to the butt ribs. You have to make your own cardboard templates and fuss with them until they fit to your satisfaction.

To complete a total closeout of the butt ribs you will also have to make some sort of a clear window to go over the fuel sightgauge cutout.

[dc910sn]

Thanks Jim,
I'll give it a try, the foam also sounds good. That link is very
helpful. I also have that option above the doors.
Ted

[Floog]

The 'close outs' do nothing to add functionality or style. The windshield cover s everything. IMHO, a waste of time and materials.

[AirFox]

I agree with Floog. "Waste of time and materials ".

[Esser]

Flying in -25, do I want these cuffs?

[Floog]

I would compare flying a KF in t -25 to driving a '65 VW bug in -25: just about the same experience. The cold is gonna penetrate each. You're just gonna have to dress for it.

About the only thing you can do is cut down on the draftiness. The external leading edge cuffs totally eliminate drafts and weather entering there. Likewise in or around the rear spar attach point. IMHO, the source of ALL drafts is the turtle deck. (Incidentally, I've flown in downpours and the only place I've seen water enter is at the trailing edge of the turtle deck. So far the band aid is a towel laid in the cargo bay w/slits in the bag to let any water out (thanks JB).)

Recent experience: Last night, my daughter and I flew a 2 hour 'dinner' flight: clear and dry, OAT 40F. Beautiful sunset going up (VUO -> CHS), harvest moon rise coming back. Feet and legs toasty w/ the heater fan on. I could feel a light 'vague' draft around my head and neck that I believe is mixed air entering various places in the TD: windshield-turtle deck transition, flaperon holes, and gaps in the fit all combine to create a minor movement of air....I was very comfortable. After I gave her my leather jacket, she was OK, too. Keeping the head warm is the most effective thing you can do..

I'm writing a freakin' book here, sorry...hope it helps. I love this plane! 275 hrs. since May 1st...!

[Flybyjim]

Floog,

Any photos of your plane on this site?

[jiott]

I also think a lot of the drafts come in thru the horizontal stab trim slots and then blow forward inside the fuse to the back of your neck.

[kitfox2009]

Slightly off topic but here is my answer to filling in the area in the turtle deck were the flapperon shaft goes. You folks probably thought of this year's ago but it sure beats duct tape. Looks good and much less draft on the back of the neck.
The slots on these just overlap the turtle deck slots only in the opposite direction.
Hope this pic shows up.
Don

[Floog]

What an illusion, until I was able to reverse the inside of my brain to see the covers instead of a 'pile of string'! Those covers are a great idea.

Jim, I had not thought about air coming all the way in from the stab....hmm.

I've attached a few pics of my 'carrot colored' airplane. One with the pants on and a couple without.

[Paul Z]

The most important thing to flying at -25 degrees C is an engine heater. My Rotax has problems starting if it gets Below 15 degrees C. It will take 45 minutes to an hour for it to warm up if it's -7 degrees C. I know, I've sat in it waiting for it to warm up at -7 degrees C. I ended up putting masking tape over 3/4 of the surface of the oil cooler, so it will warm up. I just recently put in a Reiff system, so this Winter I will be able to fly. I find once it is warm my heater is sufficient to keep me warm, but I rarely fly if it is anywhere close to 0 degrees C. That is tooooo fricking cold for my liking, and living in Dallas Texas it rarely gets below 0 degrees C.

[Esser]

The most important thing to flying at -25 degrees C is an engine heater. My Rotax has problems starting if it gets Below 15 degrees C. It will take 45 minutes to an hour for it to warm up if it's -7 degrees C. I know, I've sat in it waiting for it to warm up at -7 degrees C.

Yeah, up here engine heaters are a given, +5C and below you plug in 2 hours before you fly. Most people have inlet covers for their oil coolers.

[Paul Z]

I have a inlet cover its called masking tape, easy to remove & replace and cheap! I went up to Boise to have my Kitfox Converted to a Tail Dragger. First went flying in 724KA one of their Kitfoxes, it was about 60 Deg F or 15 Deg C, the factory is now putting on oil thermostats, it would only take a couple of minutes and it would be up to temp. When my plane was finished, no oil thermostat. We had to taxi the length of the runway, stop in the hold area and wait for it to get to maybe 110 Deg F for oil temp. When I change my hoses I'm putting in a Thermostat.

[kmach]

Oil and coolant thermostats make a big difference in warm up times, as well as sustaining temps during flight.

[Paul Z]

For 9 months out of the year my starting temp is 90 Deg F or 32 Deg C I usually don't need to worry about warm up or cruise temps. However come late Nov, Dec, Jan, & Early Feb it becomes a problem. It gets into the 50s, 40s, and way down into the 30s. I don't understand how anyone north of the Red River survive! It's too Damned cold up north. FYI the Red River is the border between Texas & Oklahoma, anything North of the Red River is way the devil up North.

[Av8r3400]

Yesterday, out my front door. 14" of snow here by tomorrow pm. Highs this week won't break out of the 20s F. :eek:

[Paul Z]

:eek: I'm moving further South! I think I'd freeze my chinggaleros (spelling?)
off.

[jrevens]

Paul-
What the heck is a "chinggalero"?! Do brass monkeys have 'em? :eek:

[Paul Z]

Old high school slang several of my Hispanic friend used. I never figured out how to spell it, but the picture of the snow made me remember it. I have no clue if it was a real word or not, much less how to spell it. However, Gene Zavala and/or Joe Zapata use to use it all of the time when it got cold. Noting those two they made it up to mess me up with my deplorable Spanish skills. Paul, Joe, Gene, and Greg the Z gang, all 4 of had names that began with Z. It brought back some good high school memories, and there aren't enough of those.