FAA Registration

[Geowitz]

:) Holy CRAP! I can't believe it!

I sent my registration paperwork off on Tuesday August 21st. They processed it on August 24th and I already got my official registration card in the mail today August 31st. That's 10 days from sending it out. Was expecting weeks if not a month or more. I'm impressed to say the least.

Side note - Also, I did not have an original bill of sale from Skystar so I had to send in the form letter from the current Kitfox company explaining the ownership changes along with the casual bill of sales from the prior two owners, and a copy of the kit invoice. Apparently went off without a hitch.

I guess I better get to work and finish everything up so I can go flying.

[Dorsal]

One step closer :)

[Dave S]

Geowitz,

I found the registration process exceedingly smooth also when we registered our aircraft. I got the living daylights screwed out of myself because of the skystar bankrupcy including no bill of sale. The OK city people were very accomodating and very understanding about the scrapes we get into through no fault of our own. Did their job well and quickly.

Now that you have that hurdle passed easily.....we expect to hear of your project completion soon. Good luck with everything and enjoy your plane.:)

Sincerely,

Dave S

[Jerrytex]

I hope no one throws stones at me for saying this but I have had nothing but good things to say about my interaction with the FAA. I deal with the Houston FSDO and they have been nothing but helpful to me. I just got my repairman's certificate without any issues even though I was one of several people that had a hand in building my plane. I have heard horror stories about the FAA but I haven't experienced any in my area. Maybe I am just lucky?

[rwaltman]

I have had nothing but good things to say about my interaction with the FAA.

Same here. My only interaction with the FAA was requesting a new airworthiness certificate for my Kitox, (Original was lost in a basement flooding.)
The FAA employes I had contact with were very professional, and very helpful.
I was asked to bring the logbooks to the FSDO in Sadle Brook, NJ, answer a few questions, and had my new certificate in a mater of days.

Roberto.

[GWright6970]

THANK YOU for posting this! There are probably several more of us in the building process that do not have the original SkyStar paperwork. I have the original builders manual, the invoice, and packing lists though. It's good to hear that we at least have a chance of not having a big paper exchange for months!! :)

Can't wait to read how well it goes for you from here on out! Have a great and safe weekend.

Cheers, Grover

[GT280flyer]

I fully agree with Geowitz, the FAA is great to work with. I tried to register my model III without using the letter from Kitfox and sending paper work showing the chain of ownership. Forget it if you are thinking of it, it does not work. Use the letter from Kitfox and it will fly right through with little problems. I received my AW certificate Wednesday night, I told my wife as we were doing and going over paper work that I felt like a kid in a candy store, was a great feeling when I was handed that pink slip.

[HighWing]

I don't know if this will work for everyone, but my approach to having a previously owned kit registered with no bill of sale trail at all, was based on a guy's post to another discussion group years ago. He simply checked the box - assembled from miscellaneous parts. I did the same and was prepared to show all that I had contributed hoping it would be sufficiently miscellaneous, but the question was never asked. I guess, I would use the Kitfox Aircraft letter as a first choice if I were to do it again. It did cause a bit of uncertainty. One thing I would definitely do if I were to do it again would be to register it much sooner, maybe six months or so before completion.
Lowell

[MotReklaw]

My buddy and I bought a partial built kit from the estate of an 84 year old gentleman in Kingman AZ. He had a revocable living trust (no will) with his daughter as administrator. She wrote us an AC bill of sale as the administrator. The FFA would not accept it. They wanted a notarized Will naming her as administrator. We went through over six months of gov bureaucrats and were told something different by three different workers. Finally, a lady in OK told us there was a document on the FAA website that the daughter could fill out , get notarized and the FAA would accept it.
According to the FAA the man was en testate, or however it's spelled.
If I had it to do over again I would follow Lowell's method.

[avidflyer]

Super old thread, but I'm researching this topic as I'm about to register a Sky Star Kitfox with no bill of sale. The form you are referring to is called an Heir at Law form. I went through this with a Kitfox 3 where the owner had died and I was buying it from his wife. Once that form was filled out, it was no problem. I'm just responding to this thread, so incase anyone else sees it, they will know what form to look for. JImChuk

PS, the DAR I'm working with says the assembled from parts option can get quite complicated. Perhaps rules have been tightened up on that.

[Jerrytex]

My interaction with the FAA went smoothly years ago. Here recently, it's been a different story. Like you mentioned, I selected "built from parts" since I did not have a bill of sale for the kit. I sent in my PPWK in along the kitfox letter, and kitfox form printed from their site. They sent it back stating that the wording on the bill of sale was wrong and told me what to write. I was confused since I did not send in a bill of sale. Apparently they considered the kitfox letter and the kitfox form..... the bill of sale. They sent it back to me and followed up with a phone call (I could obviously tell they knew they made a mistake) telling me to remove the statement that I was told to write originally. I did as they said, sent it back and got my registration card a few weeks later. Yay! Confetti, champagne!

FFWD to my DAR inspection about 2 weeks ago. Everything good to go. Got my AWC. My DAR said that my plane was the best built airplane he has ever seen and said that I could probably be the head a boss at NASA with my building skills. (I made the last statement up.... I don't want to work for NASA)

Happy day, Yay! .....confetti and champagne....AWC in hand!

Yesterday I get an email from the FAA saying my AWC application was denied. Grrrrr!!! Very frustrated. I called the DAR and he is trying to figure out what the FAA did or is doing that caused this. Obviously a PPWK issue with the FAA since he (DAR) would be the one to issue a Denial letter for an unsafe plane and he did not.

So needless to say, it's hit or miss with the FAA. I am wondering if my debacle is because I selected "built from parts" and the FAA is basically saying, no, it's a kit, because you have a bill of sale....albeit, one that they basically created.... but technically, there is now a bill of sale.

Hope yours goes more smoothly.

[avidflyer]

I talked with my DAR yesterday, and he said to call the registrations office. Said I will have to wait for someone to talk to me, but get their direction on how to go. Well I've called several times this morning, and when I finally get to the point of being able to ask to talk to someone, it says they are overloaded and to call back at another time. They don't even put me on hold. They are currently processing registrations from December 8. Wow, unbelievable. JImChuk

[Dave S]

Jerry,

Sorry for your bad luck with getting your plane's paperwork through. Often it takes quite a bit more work to unsnaggle something once there have been questions. Certainly work with your DAR who is in a good position to determine what the question is.

Avidflyer's comments are right on - reasonably, the FAA needs to have an adequate explanation for the lack of a bill of sale. I had the same situation with the BOS missing due to the skystar bankruptcy but FAA had no problem with it because there was an explanation (and some paperwork about the bankruptcy).

I don't know if the "assembled from parts" is their continuing issue in your case or not; but, I do know that route has been been fairly controversial as the FAA has run into cases where someone was simply rebuilding a standard certificated aircraft and attempting to register it as an experimental, or some frankenplane of mixed lineage. FAA central is all about paperwork documentation and consistency - if something doesn't match it is treated as a denial. That famous old saying of Admiral Rickover to defense department employees probably applies to FAA employees too - "If you are going to sin, be sure you sin against god rather than the bureaucracy so you have some hope of being forgiven" - so there is often a lot of careful deliberation.

In any case, keep with your DAR I am sure that is your best route.

[avidflyer]

I was able to talk to the FAA later this morning, and it seems like it won't be too hard.... They want forms 8050-1, 8050-88, FAA bill of sale (preferred), letter and form from Kitfox explaining that Sky Star is out of business, and notarized letter explaining all, and why you can't produce a bill of sale from the kit manufacturer. Sounds easy. We shall see! :-) JImChuk

[FoxHunter]

Ok, here it goes.
I bought a kitfox model IV fuselage and some misilaneous parts from a guy in Jersey shore PA in 2019. His name was David McCormick, he died that Aug in an ACROSPORT crash. I never got a bill of sale for that purchase of $5000.00
I then ordered several parts from Kitfox and some parts from Aircraft Spruce and had landing gear made. I was needing a wing so I searched around for a kitfox wing and found another fella also by the name of Dave in MD and i have the receipt for the kit in the form of a Bank check reciept with his name and my Wife's name.
So I am using that kits wing on my original fuse.

How likely am I to have issues registering this?

Worried that I have a useless collection of AC parts in the garage.

[avidflyer]

There is a box on the registration form 8050-88 that has a box you can check that says the airplane was built from parts. (see the link below) That might be the way to go in this case. I would run it by the DAR that you are going to use first though. He will be the guy who says yes or no in the end. JImChuk
Microsoft Word - 805088Paul.DOT (faa.gov) (https://www.faa.gov/licenses_certificates/aircraft_certification/aircraft_registry/media/8050-88.pdf)

[FoxHunter]

I'll Have to get with the FSDO to see who will be the DAR. Thanks for the reply. Trying to all the mental gymnastics and all I see is I am loosing. I hope not. If things go south there will be a bunch of Kitfox Model IV parts for sale.

[Jerrytex]

I agree with Jim. The FSDO where I am was helpful, hopefully yours is as well. I think what screwed my situation up was the processor getting the Kitfox letter and that I selected "built from parts". Personally, in your situation, I think I would do built from parts and don't send in the Kitfox letter, but if you get someone at the FSDO to confirm this, it might save you some aggravation.

[FoxHunter]

I just got the EAA guide and it gives a number for members to call if in my situation. I'm going to try the number to see what they say. :confused:

[klamath101]

Built from parts with bills of sale that state misc aircraft parts. It will no longer be a kitfox on paper.