Oops! Don't bust a POTUS TFR!

[predmond]

This is perhaps a good lesson on why you don't want to bust a TFR:

Part 1
http://audioboo.fm/boos/911652-part-1-ma-ang-f-15-intercepted-n725ce-wkg-kisp-twr-07-06-12

Part 2
http://audioboo.fm/boos/911668-part-2-ma-ang-f-15-intercepted-n725ce-wkg-kisp-twr-07-06-12

PS: I like that ground relays instructions for the pilot to hold his hands up in the air, and then wonders why he doesn't get any further response from the aircraft.

[Esser]

Doesnt sound fun.

[dholly]

Oh my! That's our N.E. Fly In host! :cool:
He gets around in his little red beauty, surprised he missed the TFR.
So Chris, is it true the men in black have no sense of humor?

:)

[Av8r_Sed]

Geez, the way security handled this was ridiculous. I'm surprised they didn't shoot out the tires. What would be wrong with telling him to shut down, remain in the plane and wait for the authorities?

Sure would like to know how he was treated when the secret service arrived.

[wadeg]

It's all a charade of minstrels and jamokes.

How many people were driving around in the TFR in rented Uhauls?

[rwaltman]

From AlertNewEngland.com

-- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --

Fighters intercept planes over Connecticut

... a "no fly zone" was established around the areas ...
... C) THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT MAY USE DEADLY FORCE AGAINST THE AIRBORNE AIRCRAFT...

Sometime just before 8:00 PM local time, a small aircraft (a Kitfox Sport) with tail number N725CE entered the area designated as National Defense Airspace. Prior to entering this area, the aircraft will be hailed on an emergency frequency, and warned to turn away. Several warnings are typically given, and they typically include distance from the restricted area, and the fastest way away from it. N725CE likely did not hear the warnings, and probably wasn't aware of the restricted airspace, and must have proceeded past the boundary. At some point, a decision would have been made to scramble F-15's to intercept the small plane. You can listen to them take off from Barnes here:

The intercept aircraft, call signs SLAM31 and SLAM32, are directed by NORAD to their target, which is referred to as the 'TOI' - Target of Interest. When the fighters launched, N725CE was approximately 80 miles away from them. The F-15's covered this distance in six minutes, going supersonic in order to reach the target before it came within striking distance of the President. Once they identified the plane, the fighters used a series of visual signals to order the pilot to establish communications and/or follow them to a designated landing site. N725CE was escorted by the jets to Long Island MacArthur Airport, where he was ordered to park on a remote taxiway. The pilot was taken into custody by airport law enforcement and held until United States Secret Service officers arrived on scene to take him into custody and interview him. You can listen to the radio communications between the pilot, tower, and airport law enforcement here: Part 1 Part 2
A second plane was then also intercepted by the same flight of F-15's.
-- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
And, according to NYCaviation.com, the second plane must have been the Red Baron's. (The Focker triplane probably undergoing maintenance.)

-- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
F-15's intercept TFR Violator
2 F-15's intercepted a Biplane that violated the Presidential TFR this afternoon. The Biplane was escorted to ISP where it was forced (sic) to land & was escorted to Suffolk PD Aviation base.
As of this time, the pilot is being questioned by personal from the Secret Service, FBI, & Suffolk County PD."
-- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
At least they had the courtesy of capitalizing the word "Biplane".
Double the wings, double the danger.

Roberto.

[napierm]

Oh, crap!!

[Dick B in KY]

Big Brother at Work!!! Idiots don't even know you can't communicate with both hands in the air. And their suppossed to be protecting our country and rights. Leaves a lot to be desired and a total waste of manpower and resources(2 F-15's and pilots, Norad, tower controllers, police??, secret service and who knows what else). Makes you wonder where we are all headed.

Dick B

[rwaltman]

Now that our supreme commander has been captured, it is not necessary to keep his heroic efforts hidden anymore
Yes, we were part of a conspiracy to overthrow the government, restore the Monarchy and reinstate the descendants of King George the 3rd as the rightful rulers of the 13 colonies. (This would happen just hours after the fall of Washington, DC and Cleveland, Ohio)
The North-East Kitfox fly-in was just a cover up for the leaders to meet and finalize our plans before the final push. The historic document below shows General CDE2FLy and myself before taking off for a pretended sight-seeing local trip, whose real purpose was to choose the best route for our supply lines.
At the same time, the Kitfox cockpit provided the indispensable protection from ear dropping by government infiltrators and paparazzis, while we ironed out the fine details of the planned offensive.
I guess we brought this defeat upon ourselves. In retrospect, painting our aerial fleet to match the color of the British Colonial Forces red coats was a giveaway.
Still, I know our day will came …

Lieutenant General Roberto.

PS: Please, somebody tell the McBeans to stop fitting the long range drop tanks on the 3000 Kitfoxes in their secret underground factory.

PS2: Chris, hope you are OK.

.

[CDE2FLY]

So I guess this is my 15 minutes of fame....just not what I had in mind! As you can imagine, the past 24 hours have been a bit hectic/stressful. Been trying to stay away from most of the coverage to help with the decompression though my kids have been consuming every news snippet with great enthusiasm and relaying the highlights. Still sorting out the details of the specific violation so I’ll provide more info on that later other than to say (as far as I can tell) the TFR is not listed on the FAAs webpage posting such restrictions www.tfr.gov (http://www.tfr.gov/) and there was some confusion with the FAA on the field last night as to the specific nature of the violation, timing of the TFR, etc. I’m sure the FAA will make it exceeding clear to me sometime soon in a letter but for now just waiting to hear back from them.

Was heading down to meet the family for some R&R at a beach house in Long Island. I almost always contact Approach Control when I’m down in that area for VFR flight following just to increase the situational awareness for both them and me (it can be very busy airspace with commercial and private jet traffic). Yesterday’s vacation frame of mind included careful attention to avoid the established controlled airspace in the NYC region and just enjoy the flight monitoring VFR frequencies. Imagine my surprise at the sudden appearance of the F15s! It took a few seconds to realize I was the target of their intercept and switched over to monitor 121.5. They escorted me to ISP where local law enforcement was awaiting my arrival. I’m guessing over 50 personnel and 20 vehicles were on the scene within 5 minutes and I was immediately detained to await the arrival of the Secret Service about an hour and a half later (note to group….handcuffs are very uncomfortable…I strongly advise making all attempts to avoid situations requiring their use!). I must say that everyone involved was extremely professional though absolutely focused on their mission. I was treated with courtesy and respect at all times and particularly so by the Secret Service. Lots of information was exchanged and of course the airplane and baggage thoroughly searched. I believe the search included a scan with a geiger counter though the view from the back seat of the police crusier some distance from the airplane was not the best.

Some initial thoughts/advice:

· Determine a reliable way of verifying TFRs before your flight. Not sure the FAA web page accomplishes this but I may be wrong on this and continuing to investigate my particular circumstances. In the future, I will be calling Flight Service for a briefing anytime I venture away from home base as a double check and to have a record of my inquiry. If any of you have a favorate web page that you trust for this purpose, please let me know.

· As with many situations, treat others the way you would like to be treated and it’s usually reciprocated. Like most of us, the agents involved have a job to do and are trying to do it as well as possible often with limited information in a very dynamic environment. One of the Secret Service agents called me this morning to check to see how I was doing, confirm all was well, and thank me again for my courtesy and cooperation.

· The next time you’re at the hanger DOUBLE CHECK to be sure you have all required documents in the airplane. I had removed the airworthiness certificate during the annual in the spring and inadvertently left it out of the airplane. The certificate must be the original….a copy does not suffice. I drove 8 hours home to get the original so I can remove the airplane from ISP. The FAA was not interested in the copy on record with their agency….must have the original in the airplane.

· When in doubt, monitor 121.5….thankfully I was able to communicate with the F15 pilots soon after we made visual contact. Not sure what would have happened otherwise….they fly way to fast to follow so they were simply flying very close to get my attention but it was not clear for a few seconds what direction to fly or what they wanted me to do.

· Be very careful in checking Presidential TFRs. They may be posted on very short notice so as not to disclose the President’s location to far in advance for security reasons.
Thanks for the support….truly grateful for this fine group. I’m sure I’ll get through the red tape with the FAA and be a better pilot for it with a deeper respect for checking multiple sources of TFR information and getting a pre-flight briefing on record before I leave the local area.
Chris

[CDE2FLY]

Roberto - thanks for the comic relief!! Just went back and read your post...I think it was the first time I smiled since my untimely meeting with the F15s....I needed that!

[GWright6970]

Hang in there Chris.... your attitude is an inspiration!

[napierm]

Wow. I've done lots of cross countries with exactly that methodology. Check weather/winds/TFR's online but because not using flight following didn't bother to call in.

Not listed on the website. What a load of BS.

[rwaltman]

... thanks for the comic relief!!

Any time. ;) And thank you, for the lesson ...

[DesertFox4]

Chris, great to hear from you. So sorry to hear of your "adventure". From reading your description it sounds like you did everything correct from the time of intercept to now.
It triggered my memory of some time ago reading the rules to follow in this type of circumstance. I think I found it but won't guarantee this is the whole reg.
Might due us all good to read or refresh ourselves with the basic procedures in case we get unexpected and unintended "wingmen" on a flight someday.:eek:

Thanks for the advice and as we all know almost all of these incursions are completely accidental with no malice intended toward anyone or any property.
You have the support of all your friends here on TeamKitfox. We know you're a conscientious pilot and a great American. I'm sure all the service agencies involved have already discovered this.


https://www.faasafety.gov/files/notices/2010/Oct/Intercept_Procedures.pdf

[wvanbrink]

As a CFI I have spent way too much teaching pilots how to CYA. It is sad that in 2012 you have to check all of the online sources for info and still call flight service to get a "legal" briefing. I have always taught that you first research online then call flight service to confirm and make sure you always ask specifically about TFR's along your route or in the area if you are just staying local. I has a student call to get a briefing one night before departing on a night cross country flight during instrument training and flight service said all was well at our destination. I had pulled up NOTAMs and was reading over the info myself. I asked my student if they had said anything about the lights at the airport being out of service and they hadn't mentioned it. We called back, got the same briefer and asked specifically, turns out all the airfield lights were out that night and the briefer had just overlooked the info!

All flight service phone calls are recorded and archived for use after unfortunate events. Yes Duats is a legally recorded briefing but may not be as up to date as flight service when it comes to TFR's. It is unfortunate that so much of our preparation for flying now is driven by a desire to avoid the FAA and lawyers. TFR's are rediculous, GA can't fly in them but fully loaded 747's can fly right through and land, who is the greater threat?

Sorry to hear about this but great to have you share your experience. We all can learn from each other. Good luck and get back to flying!

[dholly]

Thanks for the support….truly grateful for this fine group. I’m sure I’ll get through the red tape with the FAA and be a better pilot for it with a deeper respect for checking multiple sources of TFR information and getting a pre-flight briefing on record before I leave the local area.
Chris
With any luck a little less red tape now that the new Pilot's Bill of Rights was signed into law last week (Aug. 3rd). Improving and centralizing NOTAMs is a main priority in the bill. Hopefully, you will still get to enjoy a few days on the beach with your family!

[wvanbrink]

Another tip I forgot to mention.
Anytime you call flight service when airborne always ask about TFR's, even if all you want is a weather update. If you talk to them airborne they will ask you if you are familiar with all TFR's and restrictions along your route. Too often my students would open their flight plan and then say yes to that question just to get off the radio. I would then always ask them if the understood what they just did, they just told flight service that they knew about any potential pop up TFR's that may have come up since departure.

Also, remember that when a forest fire pops up and they are using aircraft their will almost always be a TFR put up to help protect the fire bombers. I've only seen them up to 3,000 agl, but I can't say they are "always" that height.

[CDE2FLY]

Thanks to everyone that's chimed in with some very useful information! I completely agree that a pre-flight briefing is the best way to avoid a TFR incursion and will be part of my SOP any time I venture away from the home airport in the future.

As far as updates go, I meet with two of FAAs finest (and I mean that literally) yesterday for over two hours and thoroughly reviewed both the certification/registration/operation side of my airplane as well as a deep dive into my aircraft, engine, and pilot log books, and of course the incident itself. I came away with some very vaulable information and can't compliment the FAA staff enough for their patients and willingness to help throughout this whole process.

While we still have some ground to cover, it appears as though this storm will pass and my flying career will continue starting with flying N725CE home as PIC either tomorrow or Saturday pending the best weather. Sure will be good to be back home with familar ground beneath me and replacing the NY City skyline with the rolling hills and farm fields of Upstate.

Thank you all again for your support and sharing your valuable insight with the rest of us.

Chris

[rwaltman]

... starting with flying N725CE home as PIC either tomorrow or Saturday

Glad things turned out OK, enjoy the flight!

Roberto.

[rwaltman]

...the FAAs webpage posting such restrictions www.tfr.gov (http://www.tfr.gov/)
That link doesn't work for me. This one does: http://tfr.faa.gov/

The page includes this footnote: "Depicted TFR data may not be a complete listing. Pilots should not use the information on this website for flight planning purposes. For the latest information, call your local Flight Service Station at 1-800-WX-BRIEF. "

Roberto.

[Esser]

Chris, what ever came off all this? I know somebody who had some F15s show up on his wing yesterday and he is sweating bullets right now. I don't think is in as much hot water as he thinks because he wasn't detained at all and was told someone would call him on Monday. It wasn't a POTUS TFR

[P Morel]

The Feds take this pretty serious!!!! :D

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZH-En9huJZY

[Esser]

Nicely done