Ready to start gluing ribs.

[inzersv]

I have some questions about using the Hysol A&B. What has been the best method to measure the A&B for a good 1:1 mix? Is the cotton flox mixed with the 1:1 mix for the ribs and if so how much flox is mixed with it? Is the syringe the best way to apply the adhesive?
For some reason this is spooking me. :o

[DanB]

I have some questions about using the Hysol A&B. What has been the best method to measure the A&B for a good 1:1 mix? Is the cotton flox mixed with the 1:1 mix for the ribs and if so how much flox is mixed with it? Is the syringe the best way to apply the adhesive?
For some reason this is spooking me. :o

Stan,
I have had good luck with eyeballing the 1to1 mix. If you take a plastic spoon for each part and dip the same out of each...mix them well...You will be just fine. A syringe works well to get into tight spots but if you are mixing with flox, your viscosity will be going up and may not be appropriate. Surprisingly a plastic baggie (sandwich bag) works great by snipping the corner off to the appropriate bead size. As far as how much flox you add... just add enough to retard the drip or sag. Playing with the stuff is the best way to learn. jump in with both feet ;)
and enjoy the process. You will do fine.

[Dorsal]

Don't hesitate to practice mixing and gluing random stuff together.

[Wiley]

We used an electronic scale to measure out the parts prior to mixing with great success. As far as applying the Hysol goes, most of ours went on with Popsicle sticks/tongue depressors, smoothed with fingers and spoons. Not the best solution, but the lesson here is that there are many solutions given enough patience!

[jtpitkin06]

I found mixing Hysol in a cut down paper cup is easiest to get a good mix. I use Popsicle sticks or tongue depressors for mixing. I also cut the end of mixing sticks square with scissors for better scraping of the cup bottom.

If using the plastic sandwich bag for application place your hand into the bag, get a scoop of Hysol with a tongue depressor and wipe it off with your bagged fingers while turning the bag inside out. This keeps the Hysol off you and transfers the glue to the bag with ease.

I keep a tongue depressor inside the white component can and always use it in my mixing cup first. This prevents contamination with the other part and saves on mixing sticks. I then use another xtick to scoop up the grey component and do the mixing.

Be sure you do not skip any cleaning when doing gluing. Clean and prep all bondin surfaces. Some pieces like the false ribs do not have a lot of contact area for bonding so it is important to have a clean surface.

The one to one mix ration is not that critical. spoons, dollops, scoops or eyeballs all produce a mix that is incredibly strong. Hysol is very forgiving.

When gluing the ribs, mark the positions very carefully. Your flaperon hinges depend on the ribs being positioned exactly right.

To make a clean looking glue fillet around the rib to spar joint,, mark your rib position on the spars then push them to the side about 2 inches. Apply tape around the spar about 1/4 inch from the location marks to prevent smears. Apply your Hysol on the spar and slide the rib into position. With a little back and forth motion you will create a a nice looking fillet. Remove the tape.

John

[jiott]

I found using the cheap plastic syringes from Kitfox work very well for applying a nice consistent bead of Hysol around the spars and anywhere else, with very little mess. Then I used my fingerdipped in alcohol to finish the fillet. Get a bunch of the syringes, they are cheap. But they can be cleaned and reused many times; the dried Hysol does not stick to the plastic very well and can easily be popped off and scraped clean.

Jim

[HighWing]

I've got to admit I have not used the Hysol now used with the wing kit, but I regularly use another Hysol formula and have built a wing using the 3M adhesive supplied in the old days. Then we were instructed to use a wet finger to create the fillet. The alcohol wetted finger sounds like a winner to me. We used just water, and it worked fine, especially if the work was checked for sags every hour or so during the curing process. In the day, we found that ribs could sometimes slide a bit during the curing process moving them from the ideal position especially in the veritical where it is desired to have all capstrips exactly level. The factory built ribs suffered from this creep as well as lots of builders used heat guns to reposition factory glued ribs to get things lined up. Regarding mix ratio. My Hysol calls for a 100:23 ratio. That sounds pretty specific to me. I do fudge a bit and convert that to 4:1, but in my own mind, the manufacturer specifies a mix ratio that gives greatest strength in the cured resin - any deviation, I am almost certain, results in a degredation of the strength. Like others, I use an electronic scale, they are inexpensive and simple to use. Simply turn it on, place the mixing container on it, press the Tare button to zero the scale and add the stuff. I use it for every mix - Hysol, epoxy, urethane foam and urethane rubber. I used to use an eyeball system, but in mixing epoxy with microballoons for a filler, if the proportions of resin and hardner were off by much it greatly affected the consistency of the final cured "micro" making it rubbery and very difficult to sand. Typically after a structrure is finished we pretty much leave it alone except to maybe poking it with a fingernail, not really knowing the nature of the final cured resin, but with "Micro" we get to really check how it cured and after a couple of days, if the sandpaper still fills with gunk, it was a bad mix - then what to do. In thinking of the Lancair I worked on, I can't imagine getting in a plastic airplane where the epoxy mixes were eyeballed. There they routinely used a calibrated proportioning pump but it was cost effective because gallons of the stuff was used.
Lowell

[bbryan]

I used a coke can or pepsi can and turned it up side down.fill half with part A and half with part B,, level of course.easy to mix with the concave bottom, and you wont up with more than you can use at one time. Popsicle sticks work well for mixing and some spreading. I bought a box of 500 for just a few bucks at craft store. Make sure you use separate stick when doing from can A and B. Throw can away after each use or recycle if your feeling green.

[jdmcbean]

IMPORTANT

The Hysol 9460 structural epoxy has a mix ratio of 1:1 by weight not volume.

Granted they are very close but one is heavier than the other. Mixed in small quantities the difference may be insignificant. But the ratio is 1:1 by weight.

[DanB]

Thanks John, THAT is a deal-changer for the eyeball method. hope my plane don't fall apart in flight now ;)
Dan

IMPORTANT

The Hysol 9460 structural epoxy has a mix ratio of 1:1 by weight not volume.

Granted they are very close but one is heavier than the other. Mixed in small quantities the difference may be insignificant. But the ratio is 1:1 by weight.

[jdmcbean]

Thanks John, THAT is a deal-changer for the eyeball method. hope my plane don't fall apart in flight now ;)
Dan

Dan,
Doubt it.. Now go fly !! :)

I would bet when mixed in small quantities (spoon method) the weight is so close anyway.

Where I see an issue could possibly arise is mixing large quantities and getting air pockets that make the volume look more then there is.

[jrevens]

I know this has probably been beaten to death before on this forum, but in doing a little research today, I came upon the following from Loctite -
http://tds.loctite.com/tds5/docs/HYSA9460-EN.pdf

It specifies the mixing ratio for 9460 Hysol as 1:1 by either weight OR volume. I hope this will ease anyone's concern that they may not have gotten an optimal strength mix when using the volume method, as I have.

[inzersv]

Thanks for the input on glueing. Now more questions. I have been ready to glue since this post started; however, the temperatures here have been fairly cool so I have been waiting for some warmer weather. The temps have been running between 45 and 55 degrees on average. My garage is not heated. Should I wait for warmer temps? If so what should I shoot for? My Hysol is very thick when I have done some practice work, how do you thin it or do you just use it this way?

[jtpitkin06]

I found that the white part of Hysol had a tendency to granulate in cold weather. The granules did not go away with extended stirring or blending with the gray part. Heating the parts A and B with a heat gun thins the parts for easy mixing and it makes the granules dissolve and blend. Without the heat the granulated mix would still set but the surface felt like sand in the mix.

The heated mix cools rapidly in a cold shop so it didn't seem to affect working time. Setting time overnight appears to be the same. No flakes or grains were present after heating and the mix cured with a smooth finish.

JP

[Dorsal]

I found the same issue with the white part. I heated the white part only by putting the container in a hot water bath and it returned to a nice smooth consistency. I've done this a number of times and it appears to have no negative effect.

[Slyfox]

just put the white part in the micro for a few seconds, all crusty will go away and works fine.

[szicree]

It's in a metal can. My microwave won't like that.

[Slyfox]

put the white in the cup first, put in the micro, than put in the black.

[Sabre]

Hi all. I received my kit on 4/6/13 and have been busy with the inventory, reaming, fitting ribs, and building part since I choose not to go with the QB option. I appreciate the wealth of knowledge collected here! I’m about to glue my ribs to the hort stab and elevator and have read I think all the posts concerning this on the forum. My question is after reading and looking at the pics I can find I’m wondering why the stiffeners are not glued to the weldment along with the rib forming a “T” joint; it seems the stiffeners in the pics do not reach the weldment. The "T" joint would seem like it would add a lot of strength stiffness to the rib. Is there a reason for not doing this? Thanks, Greg

[War Eagle]

Greg,

Not sure I know the reason for using the short "T" on the ribs.

I tried to run mine all the way to the weldment thinking it would add some additional stiffness.

I have seen lots of planes with the shorter "T" on the ribs and haven't heard anyone having problems when the planes were flying.

[HighWing]

This might sound a little fussy, but. After the fabric is shrunk, the ribs will be in tension against the weldment and the Hysol fillet. In the earlier models with the standard simple flat rib the tension would occasionally result in the rib warping. The stiffener was added to prevent the warping. Extending the stiffener to the weldment will add unnecessary weight for very little additional benefit. Ounces become pounds.