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Av8r3400
01-29-2009, 08:43 PM
As a follow up to the why did you choose a Kitfox thread:

If I buy a flying or project Kitfox, what am I allowed to do for maintenance work on it? Am I limited to what a non-A&P can do to a certified plane? Are the rules spelled out (simply) somewhere?

In reading the archives, here and elsewhere, I see many of you have done this.

I'm still a little gun shy of the enormity of building a plane at this time.


Thanks, again.

RandyL
01-29-2009, 10:09 PM
If the plane you buy is certificated as an "Experimental - Amateur Built", which is almost certainly would be, then you can do anything you like to it EXCEPT the annual condition inspection, that must be done by an A&P (No IA necessary). The rules are definitely spelled out in the FARs but I can't cite you the appropriate section at present.

Dorsal
01-30-2009, 08:44 AM
I am also interested in this topic as I picked up my project ~30% complete. I am now at the covering and painting stage looking forward to engine install but I am unclear what my limitations will be once the plane is finished. I belive I will meet the spirit of the rules by knowing my plane inside and out, I even rebuilt some of the project to meet my requirements. How do you know if you have done enough work to qualify as the primary builder?

Mnflyer
01-30-2009, 10:39 AM
Hi Dorsal, does your plane have a Number and airworthiness cert., if so you are not the builder if not and you finish the plane and get the airworthiness cert etc then you would be the builder and will be elidgble for a repairman's cert. and then can sign off the annual condition inspection and as Randy posted do all and any maint. that is needed.

Dorsal
01-30-2009, 11:24 AM
oddly it has an N-number (which will be changed) but is a long way from airworthiness cert. The original builder got the n-number when he got the kit but I will get the certificate and have done most of the work. Is there such a thing as being the builder and not allowed the repairman cert?

Mnflyer
01-30-2009, 04:42 PM
Hi Dorsal, when you complete the airplane and get the airworthiness cert. you will be the manufacturer and as such you can apply for a repairman's cert. to do any and all maint. Sorry I miss spoke previously.

Jim
01-30-2009, 05:34 PM
I believe this is wrong. You will either need an AP license or the repairman's certificate to do the conditional inspection. As a builder you do not have to do 51 percent of the work. 51 percent has to be done by amateurs as opposed to a hired builder. You only have to show that you did and know enough to maintain the plane. At least thats the way I read it.
Jim Series 5 Lake Elmo MN
0-200 working hard in the cold winter

Mnflyer
01-30-2009, 07:19 PM
Hi Jim you are right, I miss spoke, as the builder (mfg) of the aircraft you can apply for a repairman cert to be able to do any and all manit including the Annual Conditon inspection. Sorry about the miss information
Heres a link:
http://www.flightsimaviation.com/data/FARS/part_65-104.html

Dorsal
01-31-2009, 05:23 AM
Very helpful and clear, thanks!
Hope this was useful to AV8R as well.

Av8r3400
01-31-2009, 02:59 PM
Maybe my understanding is too simple, I still cant find reference in my FAR/AIM (and I hate reading legalese! :o), but:

As the non-builder, owner of an experimental A/C you can do all maintenance, repairs and modifications that the builder could, but you are subject to an annual condition inspection by at least an A&P.

Is that correct?

Av8r3400
02-01-2009, 09:10 AM
But ...

To become and ELSA Repairman is the 16 hour (?) course and rating/license, right?

Next question: If the A/C is registered prior to the LSA rules, is it an ELSA or just an eligible-for-LS Experimental? In other words, did all 1320# and under experimental A/C automatically fall under these ELSA rules, even if they were built/registered years prior to LSA?

jdmcbean
02-01-2009, 09:11 AM
Maybe my understanding is too simple, I still cant find reference in my FAR/AIM (and I hate reading legalese! :o), but:

As the non-builder, owner of an experimental A/C you can do all maintenance, repairs and modifications that the builder could, but you are subject to an annual condition inspection by at least an A&P.

Is that correct?

I always suggest building from new.. for a variety of reasons, but be careful of the statement "As the non-builder, owner of an experimental A/C you can do all maintenance, repairs and modifications that the builder could, but you are subject to an annual condition inspection by at least an A&P".

Simply put... a condition inspection for a EAB (Experimental Amatuer Built) can be accomplished by a FAA A&P or IA or the person who holds the Repairman Certificate (RC) for that aircraft by serial number. Can the new owner as a non-builder do maintenance, repairs and modifications ? According to the rule yes... but it will need to be signed off by A&P, IA or RC during the condition inspection. If that person does not want to sign off the condition inspection off because of a modification you made then you will need to fix the issue to the satisfaction of the inspector.

If you can find the time to build your own it is a satisfaction you'll never get over every time you fly... We also have Jump Start programs available to help get you further along the path of completion.