Considering an unfinished 6 or 7 kit

[tahquitz]

I'm going to be finishing my training and will have my license, Sport Pilot, in the next month...weather being agreeable. After looking through endless different models and reading myself buggy I'm leaning heavily on picking up a Kitfox and going LSA.

In hopes of of saving a few $ and still get my repairman's certificate I was hoping to find and unfinished 6 or 7 and if not included adding a 912ULS. I figure I can build and continue to add flight hours.

In buying an unfinished kit are there any suggestions on questions I should particularly ask either model related or in general?

Also, I will be building in a two car 21x20 foot garage, is there any chance I can 'shoe horn' the finished 22'8" plan into my garage without major modification. I was thinking of building some sort of wing support to accommodate a partially closed wing to keep the length at 20'.

Finally, outside of looking at numerous photos of planes, works in progress, and plans I have not been in a kit fox. I have spoken to people who have and always get a thumbs up, but if I'm unable to find one local would and Avid or other plane be a good substitute to compare?

[Monocock]

To answer your last question, I don't beleive an Avid is comparable to a KF6 or 7 in terms of the finished "flyable" product. I would say they are more akin to a 3 or 4.

[szicree]

Are you aware that all the repairman cert does is allows you to do the annual? You don't need it to do other work on the plane.

[t j]

Be sure all the paperwork inclunding all of the building manual is with the kit. There are a lot of people that bought kits and found the paper work chase was the biggest challenge.

I made a quick drawing of the foot print of a folded up series six in your garage. I made some assumptions on the width of the firewall foreward. When I got it done I remembered I didn't include the length of the prop. If you have a two blade prop this drawing works, but not for a three blade.

Just for fun you can get the exact measurements of a plane when you find one and make a cardboard foot print complete with actual working folding wings and try to fit it in your storage/work space. They really do look a lot bigger when you try to get them inside a building.

[Dave S]

Steve,

Welcome to the list and the Kitfox world!

First off, building is a major jump for most of us. If you are interested in a 6 or 7, I would recommend that you really, really look up and find someone who has a 5, 6 or 7 who is willing to get you some air time. If nothing else - make a trip to the Kitfox factory and get some air time there - Idaho can't be all that far from CA.

We can do all the head work we want to; but, getting in the cockpit is the only way to make up your mind if a particular plane fits your idea of what flying is all about. (As with farming - turning over a field in your mind will never get the field plowed) I made up my mind early on after deciding to build that I won't buy anything I have not flown. The ride sold me on the airplane! So now I have one.You only can be your own best judge.

The repairman's cert is valuable, in my opinion, for at least two reasons.

1) My last condition inspection cost me $28.12 plus time on task. 12 cents for a cotter pin that needed to be replaced and $28 for confirming the fact that dropping a position light lens on the concrete floor will likely result in the same outcome every time.....The cert is a money saver...even if one has to repeat some experiments like the light lens test......

2) I can do my condition inspection to my satisfaction - meaning I can take the time and be sure rather than wondering if someone else mucked up and missed something. After having 4 consecutive mechanicals with a variety of rental airplanes prior to deciding to build...... I really, really wanted to know the airplane I am using is good to go.

On a partially built kit - you want to be sure of the inventory and the workmanship of things already done. You have to decide to evaluate it.

For a building space - A two stall garage is better than what I have seen some folks work with to build - a person smart enough to figure out how to fly is smart enough to figure out a work-around for a building space.

Again, welcome aboard...study well and get that air time!

Sincerely,

Dave

[N82HB]

As far as only needing an A&P or Repairman's cert for only the Annual/Condition inspection.

I believe if you are not the builder/repairman, but just the owner/pilot than you can only do "preventative" maintenance just like on a certified airplane.

That list includes landing gear maintenance, oil changes, changing spark plugs, etc.

Anything deeper than that and you will need an A&P if you do not have a repairman's cert.

[896tr]

Steve,
I just went out and took some measurements on my series 6. With no motor hanging on the front, the firewall to the end of the leading edge spar (no wing tips installed yet) with the wings folded is 17'10". Leading edge to leading edge at the cockpit with the wings folded is 96+3/4". Outside to outside on the horizontal stabilizer/elevator is 95+1/4". Ground to top of the vertical stabilizer is 70". A Kitfox can be built in a one car garage but not practical in my mind. Your two car garage will make a nice shop/hangar. My hangar is a 12'x24' Shelter Logic Portable Garage.
Don't be fooled into thinking an airplane kit is a bolt together and fly project. It is a lot of work. I have been stumped more than once on one thing or another but with the factory support and this forum and a couple of old guys here at the airpark where I live I have had no trouble getting a remedy to a perceived problem. There are many parts that have to be fabricated. However I think every long and often frustrating minute of building is worth it. Would I build another plane? Yes, in a heart beat. Will I build another plane? I hope so.

[szicree]

I'm sorry, but this is not correct. The specific language (section (b)) is contained here:
http://www.faa-aircraft-certification.com/43-1-applicability.html

Note: I was assuming the aircraft held an experimental cert. If it's registered LSA, then you'd need the repairman cert.

[rogerh12]

I saw a couple of errors in the previous posting, so I thought I should chime in. When it comes to “experimental” class planes, ANYONE can do ANYTHING to them, they do not need to be an A&P (though the annual conditional inspection must be done by a A&P, but my last one only cost $175 because I did all the real work). However, having said that, if the work done on the plane counts as a “major” change (as outlined by the FAA), you have to inform the FAA and they may give you some test fight hours to fly off. The FAA’s idea of a “major” change might surprise you though (such as changing the prop pitch only 1 inch), so read up on the definition.


Also, when buying a ½ built project, make sure it has a builders log and pictures so you can prove it was not factory build (I hear the FAA is cracking down on this, as outlined in KitPlanes magazine)

Hope this helps.

Roger

[tahquitz]

I've already found this forum to be a vast resource, the additional input is much appreciated. The early process had me feeling a little 'shooting from the hip', its nice to get some solid real world information.

The drawing and measurements are a big help, it looks like the build will fit nicely into my two car. I was planning on working an outline for the finished product adding a bit of a cutout would add a vertical element to judge the squeeze. I like the look of the Shelter logic garage, I'll have to do a little more storage research on 'just in case' options. It's nice to see a Series 6 in progress, info seems a little scarce on the model.

From my understanding there is no cert required on E-SLA maintenance and the annual can be done on your own aircraft after completing the 16 hour inspection course.

I realize that building a plane is not an insert tab 'A' into slot 'B' Ikea bookcase, but that is also part of the draw. From my reading Kitfox kits are pretty solid in inventory/instruction/support with a good overall history, so that does add to the decision process. Probably like many builders I'm an obsessive tinkerer with a need to tear into anything mechanical so this would be a great 'fix'. My new car did not make 1,500 miles before I torn out the suspension and dug into the motor because I saw a need for improvement, my pedal mountain bike now has a 49cc four stroke built into it because I sold my dirt bike. A plane is a bigger challenge with a bigger reward.

I'm definitely going to make sure any kit well into build I look at has solid logs, inventory, and manuals and would be a bit suspect of workmanship if they were lacking.

I'm lucky to be near several airports in Southern California so I'm hoping between clubs, fly-ins, and individuals I can get an opportunity for a few looks and possibly a couple 'expensive lunches'. Looking at a comparison to a KF may be OK to start for basic fit, I'm 6'5" & 230 lbs, but your right before I buy I need to get a little real seat time.

Thanks all...back to reading and research.

Well, a little good news on a possible storage plan, unless your my wife. I have a friend who owns a construction business and owes me a couple favors and said it should be no problem extending out my 'wife's garage', an attached single, out to 24' feet...at a very reasonable cost. I would then be able to build in my two car and when needed move to the 24'.

[t j]

Extending the garage really is the best solution.

I am an old retired guy with time on my hands the past few days so entertained myself by building a 1:24 (.5 inch=1 foot) scale model 4 out of scrap materials. It is complete with folding wings. It is useful to see if it will fit in a hangar full of airplanes.

[SkySteve]

Tom,
You're talking about WAY TO MUCH TIME on your hands!