5 vs 7

[rcnut]

Recently retired I want to get back into flying, I am a low time PP but want to fly sport due to medical issues. I have only had conventional gear flying . so here is my delima. if you could afford either a KF5 trike or a SS7 taildragger which would you buy???? I like the larger SS7 for my size , once built can another owner that purchased the taildragger convert it to trike?I am not afraid to start from scratch with a kit but I still want to fly while building then.

[ken nougaret]

hi gary,
i'm 5 months into a ss7 build. i'm fortunate to have a cherokee that i fly while i build. the kitfox is convertible to a nose gear after it has been built; buy the nose gear and move the main gear back. i'm building mine as a tail dragger. i used to have a champ before the cherokee and i like the little extra challenge of a tail dragger, and i think the plane looks so much better in that configuration.
i don't have any experience with a model 5.
ken

[Monocock]

If purchase price is no issue then go for the 7. I'm almost certain it wouldn't be a problem to convert a conventional gear one to a trike, but it seems a bit of a shame.

You would also have a better engine mount set up than the 5. The 7 has a Kitfox + Rotax ring mount set up allowing an air box, increased carb security from the inlet manifolds being the "normal" way round and a sensible range of C of G is easier to achieve due to the extended distance from prop flange to firewall. The 5 has a dynofocal mount meaning the carbs have to be on the reversed inlet manifold arrangement. Although not a major problem, it isn't as nice as the 7 mounting system.

The benefits of the 5 are purchase price (compared to a 7) and the climb performance which, with similar engine and prop installations, should be better than a 7 (from what I have experienced).

Either way, it's a nice decision to have to make!

[Dorsal]

Akarmy on this group purchased a 7 and converted it from a trike to a tailer, I think there may be some photos in his album. If you want to put skis or big wheels on you may want to leave the 7 it as it is. The 7 is nice in that it gives you the gear option now and in the future.

[kitfox2009]

Hi Gary
Your situation sounds very similar to mine. Two years ago I found a Model 5 Vixen with 912UL TT E&AF 110 hours direct from the original builder. It came with all manuals and work sheets. I believe the 5`s have the same size cockpit as later models, although Vixens are not convertible.
Aircraft like these can be found at less than 1/2 the cost of a model 7 completed kit ( I cannot understand why, bad economy I guess). It would be very hard to beat these for value. The big plus is, I am 71 and flying every week (over 300 hours now)instead of building until I am 75 and maybe unable to pass the medical.
There have been some great deals advertized over the past couple of years. For the owners sake I hope used prices improve!

[rcnut]

thank you to all who responded, part of my question should have been is. If I buy a 7 tail dragger would it be better since I have to have some dual time anyway is to get my tail dragger endorsment at the same time I build up my hours to get current again? I don't know what to anticipate the diffilculty in getting current and tail endorsment at the same time. or just get current in a trike and then work on the tail. ??? Time is no problem just getting current. either way I WILL FLY AND OWN A KITFOX!!!!!
thank you
gary

[Monocock]

I would do exactly that. Conventional gear is not more difficult than nose wheel and you would save any uneccesary devaluation of the aircraft by keeping it as a conventional. You'll also get the best out of your aircraft.

[Monocock]

I would disagree with everything said in the post above. But everyone has different views!

A crosswind in a conventional gear handled in the correct way (crab on final and wing down in flare), is a lot more straightforward than in a trike.

I too fly both and given the choice would say that having the small wheel at the back is genuinely easier.

[Dorsal]

Try getting a little stick time in a tail dragger and see what you think. I find the trike easier but in the air I don't care. Again the nice thing about the 7 is you can change your mind, then change it back if you want

[DesertFox4]

Buy/build the 7 Super Sport if able. It is the nicest Kitfox I've ever flown and you can convert anytime between the two gear configurations very easily.


If instruction in a Kitfox is needed, I know of no better investment than seeing Paul at Stick & Rudder in Boise for some dual in a model 7 Super Sport. The best Kitfox training available anywhere! (http://www.stick-rudder.com/)
You can satisfy the insurance demands and get your tail dragger endorsement at the same time.

[BigJohn]

I currently fly a KF5 and love it, That being said, I Changed the Elevevator to the 7, Put on Wide Bush Gear with larger tires, Changed some of the Instrument Panel, Put on an Alaska Bush Tail Wheel. Put on VG's, added a Heater. etc, etc, etc. and I fly it Conventional and wouldn't desire to fly it as a nose wheel plane where I like to fly.

That all being said I still would like to add the 7 engine mount and change the cowling. So If you have a chance to buy a 7 or SLSA I would go that route, You can convert from Tri to Tail wheel when you like, have all the benefits of the items I had to change and you already have the better CG with the 7 engine mounts.

No don't get me wrong, I love my 5 and it does everything I want to do, but I had to make the changes to get it there from a stock 5 to get what I wanted and still would change a few things, The 7 or SLSA is ready to go.

[HighWing]

Interesting.

Only one comment. Landing gear wheel alignment makes a ton of difference. For those of you that have trouble in cross winds or simply landing for that matter, check your wheel alignment. I think of this right now because a friend just bought a Model IV with Grove gear. This is his fourth IV and finds it very squirrely at touch compared to his other IVs. He will be dumping the Grove for something else. Advice, check alighment and add the shims if Grove. I concur with Steve. I did a BFR with Paul. Great experience and after 4 years of non flying the I found the SS very stable and an easy platform for getting back. (Still prefer the liveliness of the IV, however.)
Lowell

[BigJohn]

Sly is correct, It isn't easy to teach us old dogs new tricks, I for one prefere the Tail Wheel but would not recommend it for someone just starting out or not going do much off field flying. However with the 7 you can learn Tri and if you later want to you can convert and learn Tail, It will also have a much better resale value later on having both.

[HighWing]

I don't know about the last two posts. I think Dorsal hit the nail squarely on the head. Get some tail wheel time somewhere and see. To make a rather expensive decision based strictly on theory and what you hear might not be the best idea. Practical experience would be the best determinant. You also might find that with the hiatus, some habits might be a bit easier to overcome in the transition training. Then again, some of us might be old, but there there are many variations of old and without a doubt many variations on native ability.
Lowell

[rcnut]

Wow I have been following different threads at this forum for a long time, but I can honestly say this is the first one that I have got ALOT of usefull info from. the only question I still have is this, can a person buy a SS7 in tail dragger configuration and convert it to trik on his own, the aircraft is light sport, built by an individual NOT a company can he leagally make this conversion???? or does it have to be done by the 1-builder or 2 an AP???? I find a SS7 for sale in the tail dragger version and I have only flow trike. so if I were to purchase it can I leagally do the change?. and do I have to notify the FAA and have it inspected? then later on down the road when I get tail qualified I can switch back and forth at my will
thank you
gary
YES from Wisconsin where it is getting colder

[akarmy]

My Series 7 is licensed as an ELSA. but the rules should be the same for normal homebuilts too. Switching gear types does not count as a major modification as I understand the rules as it was designed from the beginning with a convertible gear in mind. Anyone can make the switch back and forth.

http://www.teamkitfox.com/Forums/picture.php?albumid=100&pictureid=1313
http://www.teamkitfox.com/Forums/picture.php?albumid=100&pictureid=2101

[Newkid]

The Series 5, 6, and 7 are all the same size. If you want to go used Series 6s also have convertible gear.

[kmach]

I agree , if you can afford a series 7 or if you reguire the SLSA Super Sport, those would be my first choice. The improvements on them could be done to series 5's and up, but would be costly. I too enjoy my series 5 , but I do wish I could afford some of the things that a 7 offers, like engine mount , the boot type cowling are just two that come immediately to mind.