So Long Garmin!

[Jbonewitz]

Had a chance to fly with my iPad and the WingX app this morning. In a word. . . Fantastic. I see no reason to give Garmin any more of my money. I used the app to circumnavigate under and around the complex DFW Class B, and it was great to be able to see EXACTLY where I was on the "sectional" sitting on my leg. I really don't see a need to mount the iPad, as it seems to take up the least room sitting on my knee. The iPad's built in GPS (first generation unit) did a fine job. The most error I saw was 31'. I just don't think an external GPS module is going to be needed.

BTW, I figured out "rubber-banding" the course line. You simply touch the screen where you want to create the new waypoint and the course lines jumps to it. The point is automatically added in the correct position to your route.

I'm going to try out ForeFlight, but really, I don't see how it can get any better than this. Okay, one thing. I want to be able to switch to "Track Up", where the sectional is oriented in the direction I'm going. Currently, it's "North Up". Their reasoning may be that the chart is always readable, but it would be nice to switch back and forth and not have to rotate the iPad.

In the end, I think this package is a bargain. Sure you have to buy an iPad, but that's a no-brainer. If you don't own one, you should. You'll wonder how you ever did without it. At $100 a year it would take about six years to equal the cost of a stand alone unit, and that's not to mention the cost of map updates. Who knows what they'll come up with six years from now!

[hansedj]

What kind of inflight weather can you get with the ipad?

[Av8r_Sed]

So far, no practical in-flight weather solution has been fielded for the iPad/ iPhone. Baron services has hardware that takes data from a WxWorx receiver and makes it available to the mobile device via Wi-Fi. https://www.baronservices.com/aviation/inflight/mobilelink Problem is that no current app like Foreflight or WingX Pro supports it yet. It is also going to be an expensive proposition, exceeding the cost of the iPad and app subscription.

Best advice for now is to wait and monitor new developments. Apple is starting to loosen up a bit on their tight control of interfaces to the IOS devices which should enable other solutions soon.

--Paul S

[Jbonewitz]

What kind of inflight weather can you get with the ipad?
WingX (and I believe, ForeFlight) uses an external ADS-B receiver to obtain inflight weather radar. Unfortunately, the receiver is $1,000, so out of my price range. The good news is there is no subscription, like with XM radio.

With a Cell signal, you can download lots of weather and even file a flight plan through DUAT.

[Av8r3400]

I use Pilot My-Cast on my iPhone. Realtime weather (XM is not) and great flight planning functions. $100 annual subscription rate.

[Dorsal]

How do you get realtime weather at altitude, my phone (I also use MyCast) coverage gives up around 3000 ft.

[Peteohms]

?.........

I'm going to try out ForeFlight, but really, I don't see how it can get any better than this. Okay, one thing. I want to be able to switch to "Track Up", where the sectional is oriented in the direction I'm going. Currently, it's "North Up". Their reasoning may be that the chart is always readable, but it would be nice to switch back and forth and not have to rotate the iPad.

The iPad has a feature of locking the screen orientation so that once locked you can turn your pad any direction and can turn it to show "Track Up".

Pete Christensen
Leander, Tx
Kitfox iii, 912

[Av8r3400]

I've never used it aloft, to be honest. It is a preflight planning tool for me.

[DanB]

Interesting thread. I like many of the applications that have come out for the I Pad but as Dorsal brought up, I hesitate to take this plunge yet when you are relying on only cell coverage. Even though XM weather is not real time (maybe 3-5 min lag time), I have found it to work well enough and it is quite reliable.
I guess I am playing devils advocate here so I will bring up a couple other possible negative aspects with the I Pad...these things were what I observed a little more than a year ago (hopefully they have been addressed).
The screen being bright enough in full sunlight
&
When temperatures exceeded 90 degrees F, reports were that it shut down.
This one turned my head the other way quickly as I live in the desert SW.

If anyone could bring me up to speed having first hand experience with these issues (knowing they have been fixed) it would be helpful to many that are reading this and thinking about jumping into this technology.

[Paul Z]

I flew from Mesquite Texas to Weyerscave Virginia using my IPad. I have an IPad II, I use the foreflight software, with weather. On the trip back, I had it on and running for 10 hours only turning it off twice while I refueled. On the trip back the weather was BAD. I was near Montgomery Alabama, if I could get through a hole in between two rain storms, I would have clear sailing to Dallas. I checked the weather just Before I left, I could fly between two storms about 50 miles apart one was just rain and the one to the North had some lightning. As I flew the weather proceeded to get worse and worse, the airport I was suppose to land at was socked in. I started to fly to the next airport on the flight plan. I decided to check the weather, it was slow to load 3G speed. As I flew to the next aircraft, the weather came up. The hole I flew through had closed up, and it showed my next airport was clear. I am sold on this thing! I landed in Mesquite about 30 minutes prior to dusk. I plan on using Wing X Pro for my next flight.

[Dorsal]

Paul, glad that worked out. One word of caution is that the cell folks put allot of effort to have the signal go as far as possible horizontally and as little as possible vertically. I sometimes get coverage over 4K ft (rare) and sometimes not even at 2K, in short I would not count on getting data coverage in flight. I am a big fan of tablets and smart phones for pre-flight and even for inflight navigation but in-flight real time data is iffy. Granted this is only my experience and individual mileage may vary:) As for my Garmin that will remain in the stack as it ties into the rest of the system for things like relative wind and the AP. Sure is nice to have options though.

[Andrew G]

Imagine a world with $1,500 full avionics and $15,000 LSA 100 hp engines... the boost to LSA manufacturers would be awesome... Go Apple (and app developers) go !!!

Just a matter of time...

[SkySteve]

I flew with an iPad to the Kitfox flyin. It was a little hard to manage the cockpit space with myself, my wife, her dog, her luggage, 2 extra 2.5 gal fuel tanks for the backcountry trip and the iPad.

During the backcountry trip I found the iPad was useless with no cell coverage and only 8 other airplanes telling me where to go.

[Dorsal]

I agree, i like my instruments in the panel. I have tried the tablet in flight for testing but generally it is stowed for flight. I also use the 696 for primary navigation and weather (not going anywhere soon). Sly do you use XM weather and if not do you still get TFRs?

[Jbonewitz]

I've owned my iPad since they first came out, so perhaps I can shed some light on their general capability. First, the issue of readability in bright sunlight. The iPad has a very bright display, and is fully readable in bright sun. It is a glossy screen however, so there can be some glare, but moving the device usually solves it. Because of this, I'm not sure I would permanently mount it in the Kitfox. Regarding space in the cockpit. What I found is that it actually worked best just sitting on my knee. Someone mentioned cell coverage. Keep in mind that the iPad does not use cell service for navigation. The built in GPS is fully selfcontained. The point that was made about obtaining weather information in flight is a good one. Don't depend on being able to get a reliable signal while airborn. I've had poor luck keeping a signal even in a congested metro area.

Where the iPad and WingX (or ForeFlight) really shine is planning and flying a cross country trip, or navigating complex Class B's it is so simple to layout and edit a route, it blows my mind. Think of having a detailed sectional of the entire US in your lap. You can pinch and zoom in to read fine detail, or pinch and zoom out to see the entire country. The charts are seamless! Touch an airport name and instantly see EVERYTHING you need to know. . . Runways, frequencys, pattern altitudes, you name it. You can even see a Google Map satellite view of the field. TFR's on your route? No worries, they show up as a bright red circle right on the chart and you can just bump your route around them - one touch! Really, this is just amazing technology, and at a price that is a bargain when compared to anything Garmin makes, especially when you consider the high price Garmin charges for map updates.

Like I said, if you already own an iPad, its a no-brainer. If you don't, run out and get one and download a 30 day free trial to WingX. You'll find lots of other uses for the iPad, I promise, but if you still don't like it, just return the iPad to Apple. They give you 30 days too.

[SkySteve]

Negative Ghost Rider, ... er, I mean Slyfox. The lady brings her dog or the lady doesn't travel.

I agree the iPad makes a great flight planner. If you don't have an iPad, AOPA prodvides a good flight planner as well. Another good spot for seamless and updated charts is www.vfrmap.com (http://www.vfrmap.com)

[1SeventyZ]

While not totally reliable at higher altitudes and far off places, I have 3G service on my iPad and it's a pretty decent solution. I've even managed to get METARs and TAFs out in the middle of eastern Oregon at 3000 AGL. The built-in GPS with the 3G version works surprisingly well. I've been able to get a quick fix back in the mountains where no cell signal was available, as well as sitting in coach on a commercial flight.

Not to mention it's nice to be able to check email and surf forums and do all that other Internet stuff when nowhere near Wi-Fi. You just need cell phone service. The weather comes over as text of course, so it's rather low bandwidth.

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-WmCRoZh9AeE/TgjrJvW2xwI/AAAAAAAACvU/Xgoz5wpaDIE/s640/johnson-creek-2011-36.jpg

[Jbonewitz]

I had a chance to play with WingX in the airline cockpit today between DFW and OMA. I was amazed that I could get a GPS signal at all, since electrical interference from our heated windshields usually prevent this. The only non-heated window is a rear "clear-vue" pane, and holding it near that gave me a connection. The ground speed was very slow to respond, counting up about 10 or 20 kts. at a time until it reached our 480 knot ground speed. Don't know why that was, but everything worked. This setup makes the ultimate "Captain's Atlas" to identify points on the ground which don't show up on our high-charts. Very cool indeed!

[SkySteve]

I see the Anywhere Map Quadra LT just went on sale for $349.

http://store.controlvision.com/prhttp://store.controlvision.com/product/AWM_QUADRA_LT/Anywhere-Map-Quadra-LT/#page=General-Info

[bbryan]

I was thinking of using the Ipad for the glass cockpit 6 pack instead of buying all those steam gauges but when I took my buddies Ipad outside I couldn't see the display in sunlight. Seems in a KF3 with skylight it would be tough to see. Steam gauges going to cost me more than Ipad. I'm still hoping the Ipad might work for me. Not sure what the FAA will think.

[Jbonewitz]

I have no trouble seeing the display in bright sunlight. Are you sure it's turned up full bright? Keep in mind too that you will get some slight shading in the cockpit, between the tinting of the skylight, and the overhang of the instrument panel. Try it in the plane, inflight, and with the display full bright. Keep in mind though, the iPad display is quite glossy, and that could cause a problem, particularly with a stationary mounting. If you get your brightness issue resolved, try adding a stick-on non-glare screen protector to cut down on reflections.

As for the FAA. . . they don't care, as long as you have the required engine instruments (in some form), and a whisky compass.

[napierm]

Cool product for the iPad.

http://skyradar.net/

Get weather and high resolution GPS.

Free app or plug into other apps.

[Paul Z]

The highest I ever got was about 5000 ft. I only had one incident wher I had problems with reception. Location service boot turned off for some reason. I just flew to the next waypoint, landed, and turned it back on!