true STOL performance in a model 5?

[wildirishtime]

With my 500ft runway and my model3 I pretty well need good STOL
performance... but when the day comes to upgrade, will a Model 5
TRUELY provide 90% or more of the same STOL figures assuming I
equip it the same (VGs, tall tires, taildragger, etc)?

I'm trying to filter our who "thinks" their Model5 has good performance
and filter out generic statements, I'd like it if any model 5 owners
(or those who've seen it) can provide true T/O or Landing Roll numbers?

[I'm sorry if this has been covered i just couldn't find good clear answers in the forums for making a decision if Model5 is the right choice for me
when that day arrives].

Thanks everyone!
~Wild

[Monocock]

Hi

I went from a Mk 4 with a 582 to a Mk 5 Outback with a 912s. My comments (for what they are worth) are as follows.

The Mk 4 was off very quickly when solo. Take off roll (nil wind and full fuel) was around 60 yards. Two up it was a fair bit longer at 90 yards. This is with an IVO ground adjustable with a static of 6200. A higher static would have made the take off shorter but I liked the 90 mph cruise. The tyres were Kingfox and I had drooped wing tips.

Landing was short indeed, mainly as it stalled at 28 mph! The inertia was low (compared to the Outback) and with a few knots of wind onthe nose it would be stopped in 75 yards 'over the hedge'. It floated so my approach was quite flat.

The Outback is so very different. Take off is pretty much the same whether one up or two up! Static is set at 5200. Take off acceleration is frightening and I am off in 70 yards with no problem. I climb at 1800 fpm solo and 1200 fpm two up. Landing is longer though mainly as the stall speed is 38 mph. I would estimate 110 yards 'over the hedge'. My idle has been quite high at 2000 until now and it has just been reduced to 1700 so I am anticipating less of a float on final with the reduced thrust at idle now. I can let you know if you want.

The inertia of the Outback is greater so once down there is much more weight to stop - although the brakes are considerably better than the Mk 4's were. However I rarely use the brakes unless doing sharp turns at slow speed when manoeuvring.

To summarise, my guess is that you'll be off and up just as well (if not better) in the 5 (assuming you will have the 912s). However I would think you'll have a job to land as short as you can in the 3. I hope this helps a bit. Either way, if you have a chance to buy a 5, I can completely guarantee you won't be disappointed. It is a truly magnificent machine. Kitfox performance but with grown up looks, a much more solid feel and handling and so much more space. Go for it !!!!!!!!!

Anybody out there with a model 5 with a 914?

[wildirishtime]

When you said 110yds did you mean 1 up or 2 people up? Or does
it not matter much? My model3 it seems to matter a LOT if I'm 1 or 2 up,
but I stall at 35ish and can get two people stopped easily in 300ft....

I'm considering either Model4 or Model5 someday, just not sure if I
should be including or excluding Model5 due to my home airstrip being
only 500ft w/trees at the far end (one way in)

Thanks for the nice writeup. Anyone else with similar findings?

[BigJohn]

Just my 2 cents for what it is worth. I fly a 5 tailwheel version with 800X6 tires and a 912S engine. I fly with several other lightsport aircraft to include Kitfox 2's, 3's, 4's, 7,'s Avids etc. I can land as short and take off as short as any of them even at 200lbs heavier. Now that being said if I add two full size guys with gear and they are flying 1 person and gear they certianly get off and land shorter than I do.

We have done a lot of flight testing and STOL testing and at 4200 Density altitude dirt strip I can be off in under 200' single with 3/4 fuel and about 30lbs cargo att another 200lb person and the takeoff goes up to 300'. Landing my Best is 150' from touch to full stop dragging it in on the prop and dropping the flapperons off just at touchdown to keep the bird solid on the ground. Avg landing would be around 300'.

[Av8r3400]

500' runway with trees + Kitfox more than 550# empty, with less than 100hp and an Ivo electric prop = Life insurance claim by your widow.


(Reality check)

[wildirishtime]

..All depends if you're picturing it badly in your head - It's not THAT bad w/model3 582... I T/O away from the trees to clear a 5ft fence.

I just need to know if the performance of a 5 is truely close to my 3 w/blue head... it's starting to sound like it is (heavier plane but add 100HP to compensate)??? Anyone disagree?

[Monocock]

I would just like to make clear that I wS only quoting my own Mk 5's performance figures and am not suggesting that I would personally want to go in and out of 500 feet unless it had clear approaches!

[wildirishtime]

geez everyone's worried about me here! :) I was just asking about performance not for recommendations, don't worry guys! :P

Monocock: when you said 110yds to stop, was that with 1 person
or 2?

Seriously boys my place here isn't that bad - 500ft of runway, what
i didn't mention is it's uphill (great slowing) and has a 200ft overrun
at the top (a dogleg). It's not a safety issue here, just need to
make sure I plan accordingly to have similar performance from my
next plane.....

[Geowitz]

Wildirishtime - You may want to post a link to one of your videos so people can get an idea of what you are dealing with. I've seen some of your youtube stuff and would imagine that a model 5 should not be too much of a difference for your situation. Granted your situation is unusual, but I think the challenge is more based upon skills and familiarity than whether it's a model 3 or model 5. I definitely wouldn't try it with a cherokee 140!

Question/comment - Landing uphill looks like you have less chance of a ground loop?

[Newkid]

I only have around twenty hours in a 7 (almost the same as a 5) with a 912s, but I would say it should do it without a problem.

[Monocock]

W.I.T

The 110 yds was solo.

As with all of these things, slope and headwind make a massive difference but that is flat and with calm conditions.

[wildirishtime]

Geowitz:

Well you've hit the nail on the head ; currency, practice, and awareness of environmnent THEN plane, in that order. Here's a new video I just posted an hour ago, the beginning and the end shows landing short short fields with precision along with my 88yr old grama. If she can handle it any of us can:

http://www.youtube.com/wildirishtime

Enjoy, and any extra thoughts from you all if a model5 is capable of this is appreciated!

~Wild

[Andrew G]

Several things I loved about that video... foremost, it was nice to see a young pilot and an old passenger for a change (Gram, I use the word "old" with all respect ; )...

Nicely done...

[Monocock]

W.I.T

I have watched a couple of your videos and my personaly view is that with a correctly pitched prop (5500/5600 static) and 100hp, a Mk 5 would operate from your strip easily. It is clear you understand the limitations of your strip (wind and obstructions) and you fly the Mk 3 in and out nicely.

Let us know what you decide.