Do you remember?

[chefwarthog]

In january, I ask a question on Polyfiber skin on an aircraft. I did not recive any comment, so I did my research, an got some interesting answer.

I ask these questions to Stewart Systems Product:

Hi, I got some interrogation for you, it can help me choose the right
product.

1-what is the difference of longevity on the fabric plane store in or
outside? (in years)

2-what is the difference of longevity between 101 & 102 fabric?

3-what is the difference of total weight if a Kitfox be cover whit 101
or 102 fabric

4-I will use my aircraft mostly for fishing, hunting or outback flying
on wheel or float, should I use the thickess fabric on my plane?

I receive good answers from Stewart Systems, that I will share those with you and it gose like this:

Hello Eric,

todays modern polyester-dacron fabrics used to cover aircraft are only
affected by UV light. The do not have issues with mold and rot when
finished with the more modern synthetic glues, primers, and paint
unlike the old fashion Dope products. As long as you have followed the
instructions when covering and painting the aircraft and make sure to
have the proper amount of UV protection an aircraft stored out side
continuously typically goes 20+years before the owners start thinking
about re-covering them. Any aircraft that is stored out side and not
protected from the elements is subject to wear and tear. Obviously a
hangar is preferred. Where you store the plane is not as important as
how much you use it, and how well you maintain it.

There is no difference in longevity between the medium and heavy
fabric. You would not use heavy fabric on such a light aircraft as a
Kitfox

The weight difference between medium and heavy Ceconite brand fabric
is .2 oz per yard. And with Superflight brand fabric it's .5 oz per
yard. The heavy 101 fabric is much more likely to distort the lightly
build airframe components on a Kitfox when shrunk. It tends to pull
tighter than the medium weight fabric. The different weights of fabric
are based on things like the VNE and wing loading of the aircraft.
There is no need to use a fabric designed for 300 mph warbirds on an
80 mph homebuilt.

Total weight gain using the heavy 101 fabric would be about 5 lbs

A KitFox needs to be as light as possible. Our finishing process is
the lightest available with the best UV protection and I would
personally choose the Superflight medium 102 fabric and use the light
weight 103 ceconite finishing tapes if it was my airplane. I fly a
Supercub and use it heavily off airport operating in remote and un
improved area dragging the wings and tail through tree branches and
small willows. I would cover it with the same materials as I
recommended for your Kitfox.

I'm happy to answer any questions I can, and remember that I'm already
a thousand mistakes a head of you.

On that my question is, wich system is the best to cover a aircraft, Stewart Systems or Polyfiber system?

[Dorsal]

They both appear good, if I where doing it again I would use Stewart simply because I built in my basement and controlling the smell was quite an issue.

[chefwarthog]

I really like the video on the net of Stewart Systems, there is many of them, i think i have watch almos for 6h of those video. I admier this guy working with this fabric, it look easy to do and he always sweep the glue with towel, to prevent uneven gloss on paint job.

is one system is easyer then the other to work with?



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JgXd2-FXtrM&feature=related




Eric

[Dorsal]

If you search this forum you should find a few threads on this topic. I have only used Poly Fiber which I found easy to use but smelly. From what I read here and elsewhere the Stewart system is comparable to use without the odorous component.

[chefwarthog]

Dorsal, is it the glue that have been spread on the fabric, if it is, would the ''coulis'' (long drop of glue), will be seen on the finishint paint?

[Dorsal]

No, it is a product called Poly Brush and the runs you see are on the inside of the fabric. When the first coat is put on the fabric it is still porous and the Vinyl based coating will soak through.

[Geowitz]

My vote is for Stewart System. I did it with the garage door closed(winter time) and loved every minute of it. Very easy to use and if you make a mistake it's very easy to fix. I used medium fabric. You can see some of the covering pics in my profile album. Just click on my name to the left.

Also, I'll admit as I was investigating covering options my first impression to the Stewart System brand as "eco" friendly sent up a red flag, but I soon learned that it's a great system. I believe it is easier to get a more professional look because the glue is heat activated and the fabric can be repositioned easily without solvents even after it dries. By tacking the fabric down over a small amount of glue you're not really commited until you soak the glue through the top. Even then I had a few tapes I was unhappy with that I pulled off a day later and replaced. Any glue that was left over could be used as the new tacking strip for the new tape. Heck, I originally covered my wings lith light fabric and decided to recovered them because I wanted to go with medium fabric. The old glue left on the frame served as the new tack strip.

[chefwarthog]

Do we have to brush the UV blocker on both side of the fuselage?

[Geowitz]

Yes, UV blocker needs to go everywhere on the exterior - top, sides, and bottom. First 2 coats(equals one "cross coat" - two coats applied 90 degrees to each other) are applied with a foam brush. 2 more cross coats are then sprayed on.

[Dorsal]

The only coat I put on with a brush was the first coat of Poly, the remaining poly, UV blocker and final paint was sprayed on. Is this different with the Stewart system?

[Geowitz]

The poly fiber system uses poly brush to fill the weave and build up the surface with poly spray to block out all light. The Stewart System uses what they call ekofill. It is used both to fill the weave and block UV light. It's basically just a filler, build up, and UV block all in one. It doesn't block out all light, just UV. Both systems are comparable in life expectancy.

With the Stewart System you use the glue to apply fabric tapes, patches, etc. Then you use ekofill to coat the entire surface. First cross coat is foam brush applied to force it into the fabric with three more cross coats sprayed. Light sanding in between with open coarse sand paper. Final finish paint color coat then goes on directly over ekofill. It can be sprayed or even foam roller applied with decently smooth results. Pretty simple and very low on the volatile vapors for all the steps/chemicals. The glue has a rubber cement feel to it when it dries and their site says the fabric tore before the glue could fail under a shear load. The ekofill appears to be just graphite dust or some particle similar to that suspended in water. Color coat paint is a polyurethane.

[chefwarthog]

Wath I mean by the two side fo the fuslage, is inside & outside because the sunlight can get in side of the fuslage but not in side fo the wings

[Geowitz]

It's not typical that you would spray inside the fuse. If it is done it's usually for cosmetic reasons, but only on fully exposed areas. Most Kitfoxes cover up the area behind the seat with the cargo bag/cover and by your feet upholstery panels can be used which keeps the sun out. More spraying means more weight too. Atleast with the cargo cover it's useful weight.

[chefwarthog]

And wath about the $ is this two systems are similar on price side?

what do you think about this statement?

A KitFox needs to be as light as possible. Our finishing process is
the lightest available with the best UV protection and I would
personally choose the Superflight medium 102 fabric and use the light
weight 103 ceconite finishing tapes if it was my airplane. I fly a
Supercub and use it heavily off airport operating in remote and un
improved area dragging the wings and tail through tree branches and
small willows. I would cover it with the same materials as I
recommended for your Kitfox.

[Geowitz]

For covering chemicals here is what I used for the Stewart system. Can't speak for Poly Fiber quantities. Prices in US, sorry...

1 gallon of glue - $167 - I have about 1/2 quart left and would have more if I hadn't covered the wings twice.
About 2 gallons of ekofill - $300 - for complete UV protection
About 2 gallons of paint(total colors added together) will be needed - $575.

Total - about $1050

Tape, fabric, primer for metal/fiberglass parts, cleaner, and general materials cost will be the same for both systems. I used medium fabric and would highly recommend it. About 35 Yards for a model 4. Light will work, but it was worth the piece of mind to use medium. I just used the generic Dacron. Heavy is WAY overkill.


As far as that statement - I would pretty much agree. Use medium fabric and light tapes. More than adequate for a Kitfox.

[chefwarthog]

Thanks Geowitz for your info, but you really love doing fabric to do a wing twice.

I take a look a your album of construction, you did a grate job on that plane. let me see other photo went you have more.

for the paint vinil or ployuretane is the ''niceest'' ?? on look and durability

[Geowitz]

Sorry, can't speak for the finish quality between the different systems. I would guess that has more to do with preperation work and the skill of the painter. I'm under the imspresion that durability is comparable in all of the sytems as they all seem to have about the same lifespan. The limiting factor seems to be more the age/exposure of the fabric as all the systems use the same fabric.

[chefwarthog]

Thanks for your advise, with your statement in support I think I will go with the Stewart system. because my garage will be bild next to my house with a door for direct access, so with the strong smell I don't have any choice.

For the paint I will investigate a little more before to setup my choice.

But I got another question for you guys, dose the dark color influence the stiffness of the fabic in summer. dose the dark color will shade off faster then light color?

With a little entertaining, to motivate the replys:D


A dead stick takeoff from a 1500' cliff, a two miles glide and a landing on a sand bench along a river. Steve Henry

http://www.youtube.com/user/taildrgfun#p/a/u/2/jeQP-H_31JQ