Kitfox..what a great airplane !

[catz631]

It's 7AM Sunday morning,wife is still sleeping,I am drinking lots of coffee and its going to be 80 degrees today with calm winds. What a beautiful morning. Sure would like to bolt out that door and go flying like I did yesterday. BUT, I have to do the political thing and wait till she gets up,have breakfast & then bolt ! All you old married guys know !
Anyway, I digress
I have been flying several different light aircraft lately and it seems I always compare them to my Kitfox. I am trying to get a couple of friends up to speed on the planes they bought. One of them is a SkyRanger the other a Rans S-6. Both of these airplanes are nice but don't handle as well as my Kitfox. This is a not a fun chore as one guy is a tall 75 year old "good ole boy" (as we say in the south) His head is up and locked most of the time. The Rans is a handful for him ! (and for me to keep him from crashing it !)
The other guy sounds exactly like Larry the cable guy (he is from Mississippi). He is a little sharper and his drawl makes me laugh. The Sky Ranger is kin to "flying lawn furniture" It doesn't like much wind and it's the first 2 stroke (582) I have flown behind.
My Kitfox 4 sure handles better than either one of these aircraft. The Paradise P-1 I fly occasionaly is nice. Fast little bugger!
Overall though, I like the Kitfox the best especially when I can fly by myself and don't have to worry about keeping somebody else from flying into the trees!
Fly safe ,
Dick

[carlisle]

Been doing a little 'dual' with my son in mine (Model 2, 582) and agree it's a great plane, especially for stick/rudder basics. Could use 2 more inches of width though as I'm 6' 1", 220 and he's a skinny thing, even @ 21 years old. He's done some formal instruction in a C-150 and I'm having trouble getting him back in that direction since he loves the Kitfox so much more.

Here's a question that's sure to keep the thread going. Is it best to teach him taildragger landings on pavement where one has to really pay attention when those big ATV tires grab, or on the grass infield where he can concentrate on a stabilized approach, airspeed management, the correct flair attitude, etc and not have to worry about whether we're going to swap ends on touchdown?

Chris Carlisle
Model 2, 582, C box
Sioux Falls, SD

[wannafly]

great report and I can't agree more. I finally made it out yesterday for an hour. It was long over due. What an absolutely, unbelievable, fun, spectacular, great flying aircraft. I can't predict the future but if I can control it I will never be without a Kitfox...:DFinally have the new wheels, rims, axles, and kingfox 21x12-8 tires. :D I started with 7 psi. Didn't notice any cruise speed differance which was a bit surprising. I think with the 912s the power is just there with the IVO it allows the speed to be set where you want it. It sure makes the bumps on the rough runway disappear which is nice. Sure notice when the landing isn't just right...the bounce is something I will have to be ready for. Another differance I noticed is how the big wheels put the torque to the frame when you first touch and they start spinning, especially in the tail up method.

[DesertFox6]

At the risk of providing apoplexy or entertainment, maybe even both, I'll offer my opinion to Chris Carlisle's excellent question; "grass or asphalt first?"

If I could learn to fly all over again it'd be to start in gliders and sailplanes first before moving on to powered taildraggers on grass. Flying any airplane is an exercise in solving several variables to a complex polynomial and the pure stick and rudder mechanics are more easily focused on when starting with a glider; fewer variables to mess with.

Once entering the "powered" category, the taildragger provides the most variables to have to solve for on any chalkboard, be it asphalt black or grass green. I suggest doing what they did years ago and teach the basics on a more forgiving surface; one less, unnecessary, variable to solve for: IF...you are lucky enough to have the option. All the high-time (read: wise with age and still alive) taildragger CFIs I know agree, and guys like Damian DelGaizo teach this way, successfully selling superb DVDs on the topic for a good reason.

Frankly I'd LOVE to have a grass strip I could teach from, but here in Arizona all the grass strips (and there are HUNDREDS of them...usually in clusters of 18, for some reason) have been spoiled by somebody planting a numbered flag in the center of the turn-around pad at the departure end of nearly every single one! :confused: Whassupwithat?

Once the nuances of how to fly and land the bird are adequately mastered on a classic (sigh) surface, it should be a lot easier to grasp and conquer the differences wrought by the post-touchdown complications offered by those ATV tree-climbing tires...like mine...when they tear into the tar!

Stay as close to nature as long as you can; go grass and save your...;)

"E.T."
(The "F" in Kitfox stands for FUN!)

[piflyer]

I agree but without support and service its a waste of good air. I e-mail Kitfox so many times with no reply , I called, said they would reply, never did, so they lost my sale!

what a shame.:(

[catz631]

Chris,
I always start tail dragger students out on grass, if it is available. The airplane is more stable and tracks better. (better in a ground loop also) I find it easier on the student also as the plane is not as squirly as on pavement. With that said, you have to use what you have available.
I also look for mostly calm winds to start with so that the student can learn how the airplane flies without too much outside influence. That too ,may not be possible depending on where you live and the season.
I don't teach primary anymore ,just do flight reviews for friends mainly. Right now I am doing some fill in instruction for another guy on vacation.

Wannafly,
I too have the "fat tires" and love them. I carry 10 lbs of air pressure. When I first taxied out after installing them, I started laughing cause I was bouncing up and down on our grass runway and was only doing about 5 mph ! They are a hoot ! I am used to them now .They have been installed for a couple of years.
Dick

[carlisle]

Glad to hear that the consensus agrees with my current philosophy, ie start out easy and with the basics and work up the difficulty scale. Have never been of the 'sink or swim' school of teaching/thinking and every experience I've had personally would tend to support that with teaching of any kind. As a kid I had an aggressive instructor who could be downright mean and it darned near scared me away from the flying thing for good.

Here in South Dakota, the windless dry days are very few and far between so ideal conditions are pretty rare. If I can't control the weather I can at least control the landing surface/conditions and keep some fun in the equation without making it seem too easy. A little crosswind on grass is a lot more tolerable than on the pavement.

Chris

[Slyfox]

I have the same setup. I to wake up in the morning but my wife, the best person in the world, tells me to go fly and when I get back we will have breakfast. What a gal. 33 years and going strong. When I was doing the bass fishing thing in the morning and the kids where little, real little. I would go out and fish for an hour or so and return to have breakfast ready for me, yes she would pretty much have the return time to a tee. Sometimes I think we have this sychy thing between us and she just knows, you know what I mean. My wife, cheryl, is my sole mate, my friend, my lover. We are one. We are together pretty much 24/7, but she lets me do what I want, when I want, I do the same for her.

I to find that landing with those big tires takes a bit for the spin up, expecially on the wheel land, you better have the rudder control good. Many times I land and have to hit hard rudder one way or other to keep it centered, from the outside you would never know it, but man I mean I sometimes have to stomp full rudder to keep it straight. I'm sure if I wasn't on it the tail would pass me up.

Keep safe and have fun.

[HighWing]

I love this thread Thanks Dick for starting it. I have a couple of thoughts. I loved my Model IV. I am excited to be near flying again in another Model IV. A friend flew a Rans for a couple of years and after his first flight in his third Model IV, he called me immediately after his first flight. I could tell by his excitement that he was home again.

I learned in a Cessna 170-B on pavement. No one told me flying a tail dragger would be a challenge. Dumb me! I just thought this was flying an airplane. I really don't remember it being much of a challenge, but then I had nothing to compare it to. Then again, I didn't have any habits to unlearn. You should see me in a nose dragger. I have limited experience on grass, but do recognize the difference. A thought, though - maybe it would be wise not to tell the guy new to tailwheels what a challenge it is or at least how many hours it would take. I soloed at 17 hrs. and to this day don't really know if I was late or early to solo - I just enjoyed every minute.

Soul mate, best friend? I have one of those too. 24-7 - no. She is off to Sydney and will be home Thursday - that three or four times a month. Been married 30 years going on 15.

The factory? Real sorry to hear about your frustration, but for the total enjoyment, I would encourage you to try again, or at least look around for something used. With the mission of the Kitfox type, you won't find a more enjoyable airplane to fly.

Lowell

[jdmcbean]

I agree but without support and service its a waste of good air. I e-mail Kitfox so many times with no reply , I called, said they would reply, never did, so they lost my sale!

what a shame.:(

Not like us to not reply.. What is your name and email ? and how can we help ?

[catz631]

Steve and Lowell,
My wife tends to drift to the nasty side. I am not so lucky as you guys. She was sweet in the beginning but now.... Oh well,too old to change sooo I will just keep flying Whoohoo!
Steve, I don't have a bit of trouble with my Nanco tires The airplane tracks perfect. I wonder what the deal is with yours ? Maybe its my bush gear. Who knows but they do work fine and spinup is not an issue.Maybe I am just used to them after 2 years.
I have been playing with my tailwheel though. I took off the old hard Maule and installed the Matco 7 inch pneumatic. I like it so far BUT I snapped off one of the two tailspring positioning bolts(AN3) while making a turn on some rough grass at the end of a flight at an outlying airport. It snapped at the head. Glad I found it as the spring leaves had spread apart and that would have not been a pretty picture on landing !The airplane sits a bit higher off the ground higher now then it did with the Maule .I wonder if the mechanical leverage on those bolts is too high or just a bad bolt.
There is no room for AN4 bolts
Dick

[Slyfox]

I'm sure my problem comes from wheel landing on asphalt. I also found a bit of a problem with one wheel had to tight of bearings on one side. Oh and I also was landing with a cross wind. Most the time I don't even bother to be concerned with it so it might have startled me on landing and I just hit the rudder. Now not to be thinking that I don't go by the atis on landing, you see my field is good for having different winds on the approach of the runway. I really need to get out and fly it now that I readjusted the wheel bearings. Also don't forget I fly an rv nose wheel as well. but I have the tail wheel habits that will never go away, like riding a bike.

lately our winds here have been like a cross with 7 to 22gust, rv weather you know.;) I do miss the kitfox. today the winds are ok but we have low clouds and lots of rain:(

[piflyer]

Not like us to not reply.. What is your name and email ? and how can we help ?

Sorry to say, you had way to many attempts, you lost my sale, I purchased a Husky!

John, try replying to your own advertisement thread??? :confused:http://www.teamkitfox.com/Forums/showthread.php?t=2013:confused:

the question has been on the forum for months. not to mention my e-mails to your company and two calls to your wife. I gave up.

[jdmcbean]

Sorry to say, you had way to many attempts, you lost my sale, I purchased a Husky!



Sorry we missed the opportunity to work together. Many know that we do not monitor the forums or webs for questions and you can contact us direct... but we do try. The thread for the video was simply to let everyone know the video was there.

Again, I would like to look back at the email to see what I missed. What is your email ? I looked today and couldn't find anything from the PI.

Where your questions not answered when you called ?

Hope you enjoy the Huskey and will try and work with us in the future if you decide to trade steeds...

Thank you and again sorry we missed the opportunity to work together.

Please contact me direct if you like john@kitfoxaircraft.com

[DesertFox4]

Just an FYI to all the new members.

John (Kitfox Aircraft LLC) is not affiliated with TeamKitfox.com.

Please do not post questions on this forum for Kitfox Aircraft related business expecting a direct response. That way your important correspondence does not get missed. Thanks for you understanding on this matter.:)

To contact Kitfox Aircraft LLC direct just click on their ad. at the very top left of every page you visit here on TeamKitfox.com then click on "Contact Info." for phone numbers and e-mail addresses or
click here:http://www.kitfoxaircraft.com/contact.htm