Wind

[Dorsal]

What are your personal limits for the amount of wind (surface) you will intentionally take off and land in?

[Av8r3400]

We landed and took off into 20-25 gusts during our trip to Sun 'n Fun last year. It was mid trip, in central Illinois, so we had little choice. I wasn't about to stay in Bears' country... :p

My IV-1050 handled it quite well. The wind was mostly down the runway, so there was little danger in the maneuver (other than the taxiing :eek:).

[jtpitkin06]

The practical limit of surface wind for many aircraft is about 50% to 60% of stall speed for headwind. This is a guide only and not an absolute. Obviously a Kitfox with a stall of 40 knots can handle more headwind than 25 knots for landing. The problem comes when you turn off the runway. You may not be able to steer at 90 degrees to a strong wind.


One very windy day I watched in awe as a pilot landed and worked his way down the taxiway. He angled his path from the downwind side of the taxiway about 45 degrees to the upwind side. Then he pointed directly into the wind, idled the engine, and let the wind blow the aircraft backwards to the down wind side. Zig-zagging down the taxiway he made it safely to the parking area. I asked him where he learned the technique and he replied, “Seaplanes, sailing and docking.” I’ve never seen anything like it.


Cross wind maximum velocity is usually determined by the amount of rudder authority and wing tip clearance. To increase rudder authority use the minimum flap setting necessary. The faster approach speed and less blanking of the rudder can help keep the nose pointed straight until the wheels are firmly on the ground. Wingtip clearance is rarely a problem with high wing aircraft.


Most certified aircraft do not have a maximum crosswind in limitations and list only a demonstrated crosswind. That means it was the most wind the test pilot could find on that day. It may be an absolute limit and maybe not. If you attempt landing with more than demonstrated, you’re in test pilot territory. In an experimental aircraft you are always a test pilot. My estimate is 20 knots direct crosswind is about the maximum for a Kitfox unless you have extraordinary skill.


It’s a good idea to practice crosswind landings at your local airport where all other conditions are known. You don’t want to be doing your first high crosswind landing at an unfamiliar airport.


One thing to watch for is wind blanking from buildings or hangars on the side of the runway. Even a seemingly benign 10 knots direct crosswind can be a hand full as you fly beside a large hangar and the wind suddenly drops to zero.




One of the reasons I chose a Kitfox is to get back to basics with stick and rudder. If you haven’t seen the TV series “Flying Wild Alaska” it’s worth your time to see some really wild and windy conditions.


John Pitkin
Greenville, TX

[Av8r3400]

One thing to watch for is wind blanking from buildings or hangars on the side of the runway. Even a seemingly benign 10 knots direct crosswind can be a hand full as you fly beside a large hangar and the wind suddenly drops to zero.


Or once you get below the tree line on that narrow strip in the woods...

[N82HB]

A lot depends on your ability level, but overall I feel it will handle almost anything that a Cessna 180 or 182 can handle. With the ailerons below the wing where they are in the airflow I feel big winds are pretty managable while taxiing. I once had to make multiple take offs with a 22kt quartering tailwind and it was amazing how well the airplane did.
Kelly

[sdemeyer]

For me, anything more than 20 knots or so gets pretty uncomfortable. The KF can handle it fine but you definitely feel every gust. I landed once at Seaside,OR in a 25knot gusty crosswind and it was "exciting". I almost had to get out and turn the plane by hand because of the weathervane effect. Seemed like it took 5 minutes to get to the runway once on final....

[Slyfox]

i've done 25 to 30 with even a cross. Now the more cross it is the more angled I am going across the runway. I remember one time landing with winds 18 to 25 gust, what a ride. I was out doing touch and go's , in fact that was last year. I had people ouside watching me. I was having a ball. I even did stop and go's. I was stopped real quick, no ground run at all. Now taxi time, I find that running the r's up to about 2500+ works and using the brakes work real good(you end up creaping, and it's hard on the brakes), of course your literally flying the airplane back to the hangar.:eek:

[HighWing]

I agree with every post. For me, the maximum depends on where I am and were I am going. For local therapy flights, I like it pretty calm below 10. If I am on a trip somewhere or intent on serious work, I will push it a bit. Personal experience has shown that these airplanes are quite capable in winds. I have mentioned this before, but a flight of six once landed at Jackpot, Nevada in a direct cross wind well exceeding 20 mph. Taxiing was fine as it happened to be directly into the wind, but exiting the airplanes - I needed help for that as I didn't have parking brakes. We stopped for gas, but ended up staying the night.

I have attached a panel shot of the GPS ground speed on one trip to Idaho. This was from my 80 hp Model IV.

[Dorsal]

Well this all seems consistent with what I have found. Under 10 is just fun flying, up to 15 is not a big deal unless gusting, 16-20 I will do up to +- 45 deg steady headwind and look for a decreasing forecast, >20 I scrub the flight.
So far I have landed in a 14 knot cross wind and a 24 knot 10 deg off the nose headwind.

[Slyfox]

well ok,... ah ... when it gets over10 .... oh ah I take the RV:D

[DesertFox4]

Dorsal, Like Highwing my limits here at home are different when
"on the road". Here (Phoenix) I just pass if it's 15mph or above knowing tomorrow will most likely be less than 5 mph and sunny.

Worst I've encountered while "on the road" was flying back from the Kitfox factory fly-in about 4 or 5 years ago. Mike B. was flying his Vixen. We'd gotten our tails kicked all across Nevada especially from Ely south to Mesquite.

Mike had his fill by Mesquite.
Airport advisory said winds at Mesquite were 230 degrees at 35 gusting to 45 mph.:eek:
Rwy. 19 in use. Turning base to final I overshot final by 100 feet and had to fight my way back to center line. That large rudder and the full span flapperons got us down OK.

Mike talked the manager into renting us the last hangar on the field while I sat in my Kitfox holding the brakes & stick.

We fit both Kitfox's in the hangar by folding one wing on each. Happy to have them inside with 50-60 mph winds forecast for 2 days.

[jtpitkin06]

Yeowee!!! 50 to 60 knot winds would have the poor Kitfox hovering above the tie downs. Lucky you got in the hangar. Good idea folding the wings. I hope you got a two for one special rate!!!

John Pitkin
Greenville, TX

[DesertFox4]

Not sure about those knot thingies John but it was 55 mph according to the tv and radio the next day and walking between the 2 casinos it felt all of 55mph. The airport manager was great and even helped us push and pull on the Kitfox's to get them squeezed in that little hangar and get the door shut.
The folding wings saved the day.
If not for the hangar I would have expected to come out and find my rudder missing or worse. Felt sorry for those little airplanes tied out on the ramp.
The 3rd morning when we took off it was still blowing 20 mph. Bumpy ride home.:(

[SkyPirate]

you also have an advantage Dorsal ,..since your plane is a tricycle geared config,..once your on the ground and all 3 wheels down,..just cross your controls to keep the wings level and weight on the nose,..and if you've got 25 mph winds keep your taxi speed below 15 mph,..or 30 mph winds taxi speed at 10 mph,..ground effect is always a factor,
With the kitfox ,..if you've got the flaperons set so you have 1 notch negative available to you ,..this will also help keep the plane on the ground ,.. my model 2 I had set the flaperons so that I had -2 degrees at the bottom of the flaperon control stick ,..this also lets you come down on approach at a faster speed,..and just before touch down, pull up on your flaperon control to a positive angle of your choice that meets your need , and reduce power,..once your on the ground ,..put the flaperons back to the negative angle of attack if you have cross winds or high head winds,.. the junker style wing/flaperon that the kitfox uses has allot of advantages :)

Chase

[Slyfox]

today I just had to fly. I got to the runway and was told by the tower, winds 7 gusting to 25, on a 240 heading, the runway is 21. He was very worried for me. Well like I said in my earlier post, over 10 and it's the RV:D. I came back with not a problem, and took off. Coming in, I still had him being concerned. I just said cleared to land. On the way in, man, airspeed managment. I would drop out, the airspeed up and than down, I just managed with throttle only, well maybe a little stick. I get down to the runway, round out and at the time that I should touch, the big gust and back up I went and leveled at 10ft off with no coming down, I went like this for about 200ft and let off the throttle just a bit, now it wants to drop out, so just as fast as I took out power I'm now adding power, than the touch down, nice and sweet, with a roll out that was real short, got off at the first turn off. Like scotty says in the new movie, that was exciting.

I have done this stuff in the fox that's why I knew what to do with the throttle. When flying this stuff only, I mean only mainly use throttle to control airspeed and drop out. Just so you know, I was flying the RV. But the leasons learned in the kitfox will help in any plane you fly.

[SkySteve]

you also have an advantage Dorsal ,..since your plane is a tricycle geared config,..once your on the ground and all 3 wheels down,.

SkyPirate,
Did I read you right? Oh man, you are about to get slammed along side your head with a tail wheel. You have actually said it out loud. The thing about a tri gear being an advantage. But I'm with you.

[Dorsal]

I am assuming most have found this site but for those that haven't it is pretty handy for a quick visual on upcoming conditions.

http://www.usairnet.com/cgi-bin/launch/code.cgi

[sadmemories20]

I have done this stuff in the fox that's why I knew what to do with the throttle. When flying this stuff only, I mean only mainly use throttle to control airspeed and drop out. Just so you know, I was flying the RV. But the leasons learned in the kitfox will help in any plane you fly.