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UrsusB
01-23-2011, 03:44 PM
Greetings, new to the forum, just ordered the Kitfox SS, now looking for an engine/prop combo.

Anybody here have any experience with the ULPower offerings? Went to look over a 260i installation in a Zenith CH650 yesterday and liked the concept of a direct drive injected engine. Not sure about the return fuel line that would be required in the kitfox with an injected engine however.

Personally looking at the 130hp 350is due to the altitude of the field here, 6550', won't speak to size of the pilot . Never did really like the idea of the Rotax 614 due to the complexity and never did like the idea of geared props anyway.


http://www.ulpower.com/engines/ul350iS/

Thx!

Av8r3400
01-23-2011, 04:46 PM
At your altitude, a 912ULS or even a 914 will be hard to beat...

1SeventyZ
01-23-2011, 09:27 PM
ULpowers are catching on-- quite a few of them coming into the US lately. As far as I know there is only one importer, Fly with Gus in Florida.

Direct drive, electronic fuel injection and ignition, and 130hp all sound great. Water cooled heads on Rotaxes are actually really nice and improve eveness of cooling. Uneven cooling is something that has proven to be hard on cylinders over time.

Only downside I can see is that you're 100% dependent on your alternator for ignition. Can you identify a charging problem before your battery dies and your engine with it?

I'm hoping that by the time I'm ready for an engine, the numbers and available empirical data in the US will have increased, and the engine mounts and cowlings are available from the kit manufacturers.

UrsusB
01-24-2011, 11:27 AM
1Seventy, you put your finger on the two items that were of some concern to me, power to the ignition and lack of track record in the US.

When I was looking over the 260i installed in the Zenith I saw that the starter was located on the top rear of the engine and the alternator was integral 'internal' to the accessory gear/flywheel which is also located on the rear of the engine, that was interesting to me and I've not heard of any failures in that area with the exception that someone forgot to turn on the alternator and flew with battery only, about 15-30 minutes until dead silence 'not sure what kind of battery they had'. Since the accessory wheel is exposed and turning at the rear of the engine I was wondering about a secondary charging system that could be gear driven from that and run a parallel electrical system, or perhaps even a second battery that is out of the loop except for charging like we used to do on the boats in Alaska. Dual batteries and a secondary electrical system. A bit much perhaps for a lightweight STOL aircraft.

The dual ignition was nice and someone mentioned on a forum about being sure they were cooled by ram air as they run warm and not to bury them somewhere that they did not have some cooling airflow. Having flown behinds mags for 30+ years having that peace of mind that when all else goes dark that that big fan up front is still turning is very nice. Not having a mixture/carb heat/turbo etc is very enticing however.

I did hear that Dynon was working on the engine monitoring harness for these however, since I'm leaning that way for a single glass box in the panel that was also enticing.

Overall having 130hp for about $1500 more than the 912S and $8k less than the 914 was and is also a plus.

Jeff

N714SM
10-19-2012, 04:16 PM
I'm thinking I like the engine or at least the concept enough to take the plunge. Talked to Robert at UL Power (North American) today about some of my concerns, namely the BIG one -- a firewall-forward package. It's no longer a concern.

I also like the Skyview after flying with Stick and Rudder Aviation in their most excellent SS-7 last month. Further, I have in my possession a list of the Dynon part numbers (thank you Steve @ Dynon) for engine monitoring probes for UL (350) to Skyview.

I'm giving myself six weeks to talk myself out of it. :eek:

rjkulesa
03-01-2013, 07:19 AM
It appears the first ULPower 350is has been delivered with a Kitfox manufactured firewall forward kit.


I'm excited to hear more about it...
Anyone know who's building it?

UrsusB
03-01-2013, 09:17 AM
Good morning group, RJ's question on who is building the UL powered Kitox would be me. John at Kitfox was kind enough to take my engine last year and produce a FWF kit from it, just received it yesterday and was doing inventory last evening.

I don't know when John and Debra will officially offer the engine FWF kit but since I appear to be first out of the gate John has asked that I work with him on anything that may come up during the install, I assume to help fine tune the kit.

Robert at UL also contributed assistance during Kitfox's engineering with pictures, advice from Belgium and things like oil coolers and prop flanges.

Currently leaning towards a 72" two blade Cato but not sure yet, since I'm going trike to start it may be that a slightly smaller diameter may be called for.

I'll be posting pics and rant's along the way but have no date for first run up except a general late summer, early fall. Can report that my enthusiasm level has increased however!

rjkulesa
03-01-2013, 01:21 PM
I think it's freakin awesome you are doing this, a true Pioneer! Keep us periodically apprised, I'll be keenly following as I look to start a SS7 in a year or so and have been also eyeing the 350iS with a Skyview panel...

Do you have an online builders log or site where you are tracking progress?

Esser
03-01-2013, 01:29 PM
I'm excited you are on here Jeff as regardless of what engine I choose it will be a UL for a number of reasons so I will be following your install with enthusiasm. I called Debra about 6 months back and she said they didn't have a price for the FWF kit for the UL but it sounds like they are planning on making it an option. Keep us in the loop!

sdidier
03-02-2013, 10:38 PM
even though this engine is new to Kitfox there are some flying. The Highlander has a least several flying that I am aware of. One of them is Steve Henry's of deadstick takeoff fame out of Caldwell. From all reports it is a great engine! Zenith has two accumulating time in the 750 and 650 factory planes.
Steve

Esser
03-03-2013, 08:03 PM
The UL350iS is 173lbs with oil and exhaust

Rotax 912iS 160.7 with exhaust no oil.

UrsusB
03-04-2013, 07:28 PM
RJ, no online builders log but I will keep the group apprised of my progress.

As a general FYI I just received this from Robert Helms with UL here in the states, I think he must have heard that this has generated some interest on the forum;
---------------
"Hi Jeff,

I can't log onto the Kitfox Forum so I was wondering if you would be so kind as to refer people to me if they have questions for which you don't have any answers.

FYI, we have about 500 engines delivered worldwide (about 50 in the US). The all-in weight of the 912 is about the same as the 350iS but the 350iS has a lot more power. The 912 is more comparable to the 260i or 260iS in terms of HP and torque and the 260 is lighter and less expensive than the 912. The idea is to keep people from comparing the 912 to the 350iS because they are not comparable."

--------------

Thought some of sold numbers were good, hope that means we customers will have good support into the future and I won't end up with an orphan!

Jeff

AirFox
03-05-2013, 07:46 PM
I'm pretty sure Steve Henry's Highlander(taildrgfun) has a Turbo 912s. He posted a video on youtube 2 months ago.

Esser
03-05-2013, 07:50 PM
Steve Dentz has the UL350iS highlander
https://www.stewartsystems.aero/images/gallery/IMG_1662.JPG

AirFox
03-09-2013, 06:55 PM
Esser, I got a chance to see Steve Dentz Highlander at WAAM last summer. He did a very good job on that plane. Sure would be nice to see the stats on his plane. Anyone know what kind of results he is getting?

AirFox
03-13-2013, 01:01 PM
I found some interesting practical info on the ULPower 350is at the following link.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/UL-Power-Aero-Engines/message/107

I wonder how this data would translate on the Super Sport????

>>>From the link.
I now have 128hrs on my UL350iS and I've done numerous checks on my fuel consumption and the most I've ever burned in my Highlander running at 2800 rpms was 6.0-6.5 which I'm very pleased with for 130hp.
I also put on another Catto test 74X32 a couple of weeks ago and here are the stats on it:
Full throttle static rpms: 2690-2700
Full throttle static thrust: 440 ft/lbs
Full throttle level flight rpms: 3150-3210
Full throttle level flight TAS (True air speed) in mph: 103-105mph
70mph climb out: 2910 rpm & VSI: 950-1100fps
20-25% reduction in take-off over Catto 72/42 prop





TAS

GPH

MAP

2700 RPM

91

4.9

18.2

2800 RPM

94

5.3

19.3

2900 RPM

99

5.8

21.0

3000 RPM

101

6.1

22.3

3100 RPM

103

6.8

24.0

3200 RPM

105

7.0

25.3

The above data was taken during morning hours at 1500MSL with a barometer of 30.02

Another data point is that when I'm flying at 5000MSL and above the GPH numbers above are reduce by .5gph which tells me the FADEC is doing its job.

Comparing the Catto 74X32(short field prop) to the previous Catto Prop 72X42(cruise prop):
-Shortened takeoff by 20% (80-100')
-Reduced Full throttle level flight by 10 mph
-Increased VSI
-I'm assuming the 74X32 will perform much better at high altitude

Catto will be sending another test prop (74X34) which will hopefully give back some cruise speed and maintain the short field performance. I'll report on that when I complete some testing.

I also did a thrust test with a wood Sensenich 68X38:
Full throttle static rpms: 2850
Full throttle static thrust: 370 ft/lbs
Full throttle level flight rpms: 3230
Full throttle level flight TAS (True air speed) in mph: 106mph
70mph climb out: 3010 rpm & VSI: 900fps

The above tells me that the blade design and efficiency of a Catto prop is much better then a wood Sensenich. Catto is now using a CNC process in building his props which makes vibration almost undetectable. The vibration of the Sensenich wood was very apparent.
I wish I could test other ground adjustable props against the Catto but I can find anyone that will sell or lend me a two bladed ground adjustable for the 350iS because the manufactures don't know what the 350iS engine pulses will do to their hubs.

Steve D
Highlander N419BD