Heat

[Dorsal]

For those who have asked about the effectiveness of the standard KF heater (the one that works of the coolant lines). We flew today with OATs of 0deg f, heater took the chill off but definitely needed jackets. I have a cloth barrier to the back which keeps the cold air off my neck. With a basic winter jacket and thin driving gloves I could have flown all day.
Beautiful flying today, my son got some nice pics of a fox crossing a snow covered lake, stopped by and met CainBird (nice hangar he built himself). All in all a good day.

[Dorsal]

Fox watching a Fox

[cainbird]

Nice pic Dorsal, I assume your boy snapped it. Where was this taken?

[Paul Z]

That looks like a "COOL" Picture from a Fox of a Fox! It's been cold hear in North Texas, but not that cold!

[Dorsal]

Cain, that was on Wachusett reservoir

Paul, -10 outside this morning, did you get your carbs cleaned? are you back in the air?

[wannafly]

fantastic picture. Are you sure it is a fox? Looks like a coyote to me and seldom do you see a fox out in the open. Just wondering.
We made it up to 0 C with no wind yesterday so got out for an hour. Have been thinking about the heater idea. thanks for the product review:D

[Dorsal]

We also thought it might be a coyote but we where in a Kifox so we decided it was a fox (apparently incorrectly). I suppose the heading of a Fox chasing a Coyote could also work :rolleyes:

[wannafly]

na fox chasing fox sounds:D

[Dorsal]

Back on the subject of heat, my jury-rigged temporary separator wall failed today and boy it sure makes a big difference in how warm we feel in the cabin. My lovely wife made me a better one with slots for the seat belts and velcro on the back. I use two 8" strips of velcro to either side of the word EXPERIMENTAL on the top tube behind my head. The material is from a $5 quilted blanket from Harbor Freight, I also ran some bicycle cable down the sides to make them a little less floppy.

[Paul Z]

Cain, that was on Wachusett reservoir

Paul, -10 outside this morning, did you get your carbs cleaned? are you back in the air?

We had 19 which is cold enough for me! I took the Carbs off, and if there was an opening, port, whatever, I sprayed Carb Cleaner in it, until it came running back out! I rotated it around and then poor out any in the bowl etc., and then did it again. Saturday, I put the carbs and intakes back on the engine, and Today, I mechanically sync'ed the carbs. It fired right up. It runs much better! Next Saturday, I'll sync them and then I can put it back together after the Annual, and then go flying!

[Paul Z]

You guys in the frozen tundra might consider the a thermostat for a 912. I was looking at Stolp Vortex Generators, and this looked interesting, but it is not something I need in Texas! If it's -10 Degrees I am staying home!

"Results
My testing showed that at outside air temperature of 12ºC (54ºF), head temp was 50ºC (122ºF) at 2 minutes and 80ºC (176ºF) at 4 minutes. Before the thermostat, I hadn’t been able to get to 80ºC at all while on the ground. This feels much better to me for the full power take-off than at the much lower temps before. Once in flight the head temps locked in at 91ºC (195ºF) on the right side, and 87ºC (189ºF) on the left side, and stayed there, regardless of full power climb or idle descent."

http://www.stolspeed.com/thermostat-for-912

[Dorsal]

I run an oil thermostat, works great, not sure what the concerns are with running the heads too cool.

[Av8r3400]

I run an oil thermostat, works great, not sure what the concerns are with running the heads too cool.

The cabin heat isn't very effective when the heads are too cool. :D

A thermostat would be nice...

[kitfoxvixen9095]

dorsal, do you happen to have any pictures of the heater core installation? thanks

[Dorsal]

Here is the best I have

[jamesmil]

hi all, new to this sight looks like a lot of great info on the kit fox. i will be checking in often for tips on the super sport build as i wait for my kit to be ready to be picked up. ordered it at sebring and it is supposed to be ready some time in june. was wondering has any one used a cabin heat sys, off the muffler like on the rans s7s with the 912. thanks:D

[Paul Z]

James, Best of luck with your SS Kit, as you can see I have a Light
Sport it is a great little plane!

Paul

[DesertFox4]

jamesmil- congrats. of the wise purchase and welcome aboard. :)

Per your question of heat muff versus using engine coolant for heating. It's easy and safe to pull cabin heat from the engine coolant as apposed to radiant heat from an exhaust pipe. Less chance to bring carbon monoxide into the cabin.

[Dorsal]

FWIW on wiring the muffin fans, I used a DPDT switch to put the fans in series or parallel resulting in a high and low setting. I found this quite nice in the fall when I wanted only a little heat.

[jamesmil]

thanks for the info guys, i have a rans s7s with muf, heat works good for the front seat but not the back seat. also my rv7 muf, heat works all right,but nouthing to brag about. one thing about muf, heat is no wating for the water to warm up. have plenty of time to check on some of the smaller things while waiting for the kit.:)

[Av8r3400]

FWIW on wiring the muffin fans, I used a DPDT switch to put the fans in series or parallel resulting in a high and low setting. I found this quite nice in the fall when I wanted only a little heat.


Great idea on the switch, Dorsal! I've thought of modifying my 1050 in this same manner. Right now it's either on or off...

[cap01]

guess ive never wanted just a little heat , ill take all i can get . the left leg gets pretty cold sometimes .

[Dorsal]

Well it hasn't been set on low lately :( kinda looking forward to temps where the low setting is even a consideration. Better yet, temps where I shut the heater core off altogether.
Time to go out and clear my 700' driveway AGAIN.

[av8rps]

I run a small heater core in my Kitfox on floats controlled by a water valve and a electric fan. I don't fly it in winter, but really enjoy having heat in late fall and early spring (35 F, wet feet, flip flops, shorts...brrrr) It's sufficient down to that temp.

I really like the 912 thermostat for the cooling system, that will help keep the coolant temps up when it gets cold outside . Always wondered why no one did it earlier? I think I'm going to order one.

BUT, I think the ultimate heater for our planes would be to run a heat muff (or two) right off the header pipes using fresh air to blow air into the cabin, and then ducting that air to blow through the heater core. So rather than a fan you could just meter the amount of fresh air from your heat muffs, and the water valve on the heater core. Or you could just run the heat muff heat to each footwell and end up having 2 or 3 separate heaters in your kitfox. Hmmmm?

Another idea I've had was to wire the heater core fan so it can be reversed, which would allow you to have a nice windshield defroster if you just put a piece of duct going up. Anyhow, just another idea I wanted to share.

Do all of these things and we will be the envy of aircraft owners, as we'll have so much heat we won't know what to do with it...

[Slyfox]

things I've done for my kf. I take every year and remove the front engine covers. Than I take some clear plastic and wrap it over the front section where the panel is and tape it to the windscreen and over the firewall and secure it in place with wireties where applicable. Than I put the covers back on, you see nothing, but it cuts out all the air leaks up front. Than I put weather stripping on the doors down the side and bottom. than I take duck tape and seal off the top of the doors. I took fabric and sealed off the area at the top of the door to the wing, than I take tape and tape from the wing to the rib at the top of the door, needs to be removed if you pull the wings back. than I use the heat off the radiator, that way I don't have to much extra weight, like performance. what I do is put an oil funnel behind the cooler and then attach scat tube and run it into the cabin. I'm thinking of putting two of these on soon. I also run an oil thermostat and the oil temps are always good. I also have a vest that is electric and it gets nice and warm.

Now with that said, I don't fly below 25degrees. Main reason, the rv runs nice inside to where I only need my tshirt at 0degrees outside, I be spoiled.:D

[Dorsal]

Slyfox,
Good tips, I need to seal up my firewall.
Nice to have you back!

[DesertFox4]

Slyfox- don't disappear for so long next time. We almost sent out a search and rescue crew.;) You were missed. Happy New Year.

[Slyfox]

oh, ok. I'll do better.

[kitfoxvixen9095]

does anyone know the cfm rating of the muffin fans your using??

[War Eagle]

I have two mounted on my cabin heater core and they are each rated at 100 cfm.

[kitfoxvixen9095]

thanks, do they seem to be sufficient airflow? there are some available in the 150 to 240 cfm range..thanks

[War Eagle]

I have ridden in several of the Series 7's that our group made and they used the 60 cfm fans. Flying on 20 degree days required you have a good buttoned jacket and gloves but it was certainly tolerable. No ice was on the inside of the cabin.

I put 100 cfm fans in my bird and I have a higher degree of comfort on a 20 degree day. My jacket isn't as heavy and it is unbuttoned and I take the gloves off after I have been in the air for a short while.

If I was doing it over again I believe I could still get more heat if I used a bigger cfm fan. The 150's sound interesting and I would probably try those.

One limit you have to be aware of is the size of your heater core and how many BTU's you can hope to get from it. Mine is rated at 18K BTU and if you move too much air over it then the temp of the heated air will begin to decrease. I'm not saying the 250's wouldn't be better than the 150's but it would probably be beneficial to do some testing or if you can do some calculations to verify that they will infact still provide improved heat flow for the cabin given the current size of your heater core.

Of course you always have the opportunity to increase the size of the heater core and the heater inlet/outlet sizes to generate more BTUs for the bigger fans if you needed to.

[Slyfox]

if you go for a heat vest, you can take your hands with gloves on, I use a real thin pair, and put your hand inside your coat and on the vest. Feels real good. Not only that your inner core is nice and toasty. I run my vest on the 912 charging system with no problems. When Cheryl use to fly with me in the KF, her vest worked just fine with mine.

[Dave S]

Another thing to consider in addition to making heat - that is to make sure you are not loosing heat un-necesssarily.

n our series 7 - went through & closed off as many pneumonia holes as possible - made real sure the cowl was sealed up, fabricated some flaperon horn-spar seals on the turtle deck - made sure the leaks were plugged around the wing root.

A lot of cold air comes from the baggage bay and that can be helped with a little judicious windproofing.

The door seals can be diddled with to make sure no gaps or air leaks exist - at least on the 7 - I know other models are a little different on the door closure.

The result keeps the interior shirt sleeve comfortable down through 0 degrees F OAT with the factory heater/muffin fans. Need to throttle back the fans as the OAT gets to 30 or so.

Sincerely,

Dave S

[SkyPirate]

One thing I am doing on my build, at Cabela's and Bass Pro, in the camping area,. They have sleeping bag mats that weigh 14 ounces, they are 30 inches wide, and 82 inches long, about .625 thick, I'm going to line the doors and cabin with this material with exception to the fire wall, I'll use an approved blanket for the fire wall, should hold the heat in good and make the cabin allot quieter

[Dorsal]

Welcome back :D

[Dick B in KY]

Good to hear from you Skypirate, after such a long time.

Dick B

[SkyPirate]

thanks guys for the welcome back :)

[kitfoxvixen9095]

thanks for the input on the heater. i settled on two Dayton 150cfm brushless fans. I built a framework to mount them up off of the heater core so that i would get airflow through the entire core and not just the circular area right under the fans. I attached a pic with only one fan mounted...

[t j]

I gave up on making heaters after my third attempt last year and it too turned out to be a dog breath heater. I just have a little 503 rotax air cooled engine and I guess the exhaust just doesn't get hot enough.

I made my first flight with my new heated vest yesterday. It is amazing!
http://gerbing.com/Products/Liners/heatedVestLiner.html

[jsimmo97]

Folks.... needing some help with m Kitfox IV 582. The prior owner had a heater core installed in the cabin and I'd like to hook it back up. Question? Does it matter where you tap into the coolant system for both inlet and outlet to the heater core? If so, can you detail what the best setup is for max heat and maybe even add some pics of the engine-side setup not the heater core itself.

Thanks!

~Jason
Austin, Tx