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rcnut
09-26-2010, 08:42 PM
Does any one know what happened to Eggenfellner Honda engine?? I checked there web site and they don't list it anymore. thought that would have been a great alternative to the Rotax

DesertFox4
09-26-2010, 10:29 PM
Get the Rotax and save yourself lots of grief and probably money in the long run. Can't think of a single Honda in a Kitfox. Might tell you something. No auto conversion has ever come close to the match of a Rotax 4-stroke and a Kitfox airframe for performance and certainly not for reliability. I know they're a little pricey but your worth it and you'll be flying years sooner.;)
Best of luck.

jochums
09-27-2010, 07:37 AM
RCNUT,

You can find the Honda engine, HF-110 at Vikingaircraftengines.com. There is a very comprehensive comparision on that web for you to view. Very impressive unit if it works as advertised and the price is a bonus.

Happy Flying

rcnut
09-27-2010, 03:57 PM
thank you that is the web site I lost and was looking for. I had the subaru site but could not get to the Viking Honda site. I am really looking forward to useing this engine on my build. again thank you

Av8r3400
09-27-2010, 07:28 PM
Get the Rotax and save yourself lots of grief and probably money in the long run.

Excellent advise Steve. So many auto conversions are abandoned due to expense, weight and poor performance (if they ever fly).

Mnflyer
07-09-2011, 10:58 AM
Something to consider, a fellow posted on brand X KF group, he's paid in full for a Viking engine and no engine and now the guy won,t talk to him.

Geowitz
07-09-2011, 11:27 AM
There seems to be a history of problems with that particular engine builder. I was intrigued by the conversion as well and after looking around didn't feel confident about spending my money with him.

Geowitz
07-09-2011, 03:21 PM
The viking engine is an auto conversion. It's the same guy who does(or at least used to do) Subaru conversions, Jan Eggenfellner. Honda does not endorse it either.

szicree
07-09-2011, 04:54 PM
The new Viking engine is not an auto conversion it's an airplane engine made by Honda.

This could not be further from the truth. In fact, the Viking engines actually start out as used engines taken from totalled Honda Fit automobiles. This info comes directly from Jan Eggenfelner at Viking.

Av8r_Sed
07-09-2011, 05:33 PM
Cash up front with no escrow? That's not how I'd do business with anyone. I hate to see anyone get taken like that. I hope others will learn from this poor guy's sad tale.

-- Paul S

Av8r3400
07-09-2011, 07:49 PM
Everyone loves to hate the Rotax 900 series. I just don't understand it. :confused:

Pound for pound and dollar for dollar they are still the best engine you can have in an airplane of the class of a Kitfox IV or later. There are many of the 80 hp 912UL motors available on the used market, for half the price of new. You just need to look a around little bit (and I don't mean just on Barnstormers - Join your EAA chapter and talk to people).

Auto conversions are a compromise at best in every case. Be they Honda, Subaru, VW or whatever. Once you factor in time for customization, R&D and all of the other unsupported FWF details, you would be in for far less expense if you just go with a known and proven quantity.

rogerh12
07-09-2011, 11:04 PM
18 Grand for a Rotax 912? That's a steal !!! Just wait for the US dollar to devalue some more, and it will be 28 grand, then 38 grand !!!!! Or,,,, you could get an engine made in the USA...

szicree
07-10-2011, 10:24 AM
Auto conversions are a compromise at best in every case. Be they Honda, Subaru, VW or whatever. Once you factor in time for customization, R&D and all of the other unsupported FWF details, you would be in for far less expense if you just go with a known and proven quantity.

This doesn't have to be true. On paper the Viking looks very promising in terms of weight, output, cost, and reliability. If Viking is able to deliver on its promises we could have a firewall forward package for far less than the Rotax and with GREATLY reduced overhaul costs. Lets face it, the core engine doesn't know whether its in a plane, car, or pogo stick, but the gear drive and such are the tricky part.

Incidently, I asked Eggenfellner about the ignition system and was told it has one plug per piston, and one coil per plug. I was also told that plugs would not fail, but if one did, I'd fly along on three cylinders. I can't speak to the reliability of the plugs but I have had individual coil failures on a Japanese import car. In my case it was a 6 cylinder and it ran fine on 5.

Agfoxflyer
07-10-2011, 11:31 AM
I have a friend who is building an RV-12 and has received and installed his Viking engine. He is waiting on a cowl and registration paperwork. Cowl should come in this week. Can't wait to see how it performs. It is a impressive looking installation. Rumor has it a firewall forward package is in the works for a Kitfox.

rogerh12
07-10-2011, 08:47 PM
Dave;
I'm with you on the whole alternative engine thing for the Kitfox, but you have a hard sell with this group !!!! It seems everyone here is stuck on the whole rotax 912 thing, and think you have to spend 20K+ for an engine, else it's just no good for you OR the plane. .
I think many of our members just don't understand that for most of the world’s pilot population, the difference between flying your own plane or just watching other do it from the ground IS a low cost alternative engine. Yes, the Rotax 912 is the Cadillac of small aircraft engines, but do you really need a Cadillac? Can you really afford to buy, operate and overhaul a Cadillac?
For many of us, the math is very simple:

Rotax 912 Pricing = never flying your own plane
or
Honda or other engine pricing = flying your own plane :)

Roger

Av8r3400
07-10-2011, 09:01 PM
Roger, for $20k you can buy a flying Kitfox with a 912 already in it. I did. I know several other that have, too. :eek:

Geowitz
07-11-2011, 05:19 AM
What started all the back and forth repsonses(atleast for me) in this debate was not whether a Honda could be a good platform, but that the actual builder and seller of these new creations has a bad history of business practices. I would love to see a proven honda engine in a plane and there's no doubt that it's possible, BUT I don't trust my money with the guy converting them. I saw the honda conversion almost a year ago and did my due dilligence - It's not proven to be a viable option yet. The burden of proof is on the manufacturer to show a proven history of reliability...Not to mention there are numerous complaints about this guys business practices.

I would love to pay less for a 912 or use an alternative engine. In fact I sold a complete firewall foward kit for the 912 last year so don't tell me I'm stuck on the whole rotax thing. I'm actually eyeing the HKS 700t very closely. It's numbers out perform the 912ul all the time and actually surpass the 912uls above 7,000 feet. Sure it's expensive($16,500), but it's still cheaper than both of the rotaxes and it comes from a manufacturer with a trustworthy history. In fact when the first HKS 700e's came out there was a potential problem with oiling. HKS replaced 100 engines free of charge even if no problems were noted by the customers. I actually have confidence in HKS and their history in engineering with the 700e (a practically bulletproof engine) tells me they know what they are doing. I haven't commited yet, but we'll see.

rcnut
07-11-2011, 01:57 PM
I am also looking for alternate power for a Kitfox something different than a Rotax. after looking at the Honda I am pretty sure that is the route I am planning on going, but Ihave not heard anything substancial or hard facts about Jan's past practices. if they are true tell us what they are.I have no problem asking him face to face at Oshkosh this year so we can get both sides of the fence. from looking at there videos on utube and that they are shipping engines right now seems to me that more than one person is looking for alternate power.
gary

Geowitz
07-11-2011, 03:46 PM
All I'm saying is that you should do your due diligence on all aspects of an engine purchase. I don't see any reports of people getting stiffed with Rotax, Jabiru, HKS, VW, etc dealers, but I've seen several with this particular builder.
I'm really not here to trash anyone. Maybe he's turned over a new leaf with his brand new business name, but make sure your excitement for a new alternative is not blurring your judgement.

rogerh12
07-12-2011, 08:53 PM
I have to say, I agree strongly with GeoWitz. Dont' buy the engine, buy the company selling the engine. Alternative engine makers come and go, that's for sure. Be sure of who your buying your engine from. ....

Hey, why not buy an American made engine from one of these trustworthy engine builders, and save big $$$ over a 80 HP Rotax 912 !!!! All of these makers have years if not decades of expereince, and stand by their engines: AeroVee, Revmaster, Great Plains !!!!!!

Roger