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GDN
06-11-2010, 12:22 PM
Hello i've just install a fuel flow on my kitfox and want to know if it has a camel consumption.

I burn 15l/h at 5800 rpm or 4 gallon/h. at a speed of 80 mph

And you ?

JimS
06-28-2010, 05:58 PM
GDN,
Had a 582 in the nose of my KF IV for 12 years. It would use 5 Gallons/hr at 6000 rpm.

JimS

akflyer
08-20-2010, 02:54 PM
I burn right at 5 an hr at 58-5900

Eric
11-09-2010, 02:25 PM
Hello

How much willburn a 912 at the same conditions

Thank You

Eric hendriks

Av8r3400
11-09-2010, 07:52 PM
At a high cruise setting, ~5400 rpm, I burn about 3.3 gph on my 912UL, 80 hp.

JimS
11-10-2010, 04:56 AM
Plan on using 3.5 gal/hr with a 912.

herman pahls
02-03-2011, 01:16 AM
What fuel consumption are the Jabiru 2200 owners experiencing?
Herman

Soarhead
02-03-2011, 01:27 PM
I generally potter along at 75-80mph @5400rpm burning about 12 litres per hour.

soarhead
G-BTWB :D

avidflyer
02-03-2011, 10:26 PM
Some guys claim a lot better, but I burn about 4.5 GPH at a cruise of 80-85 MPH in my Avid MK IV with an 80 HP Jabiru for engine. RPM is about 2700. With my 582 that I had before in the Avid, I would burn about 3.5 GPH, but I usually ran about 5200 RPM with it. Cruise with the 582 was about 75 MPH.
Jim Chuk

Soarhead
02-04-2011, 12:24 PM
Bearing in mind that GDN, the creater of this thread, lives in France, and this correspondent lives in Ireland, we should be aware that US gallons (3.79 litres) are smaller than Imperial gallons (4.54 litres). In the interest of consistency, for the purpose of this discussion at least, it might be better to express / calculate fuel burn in litres. Didn't an Air Canada crew encounter this issue in the eighties when their mathematical miscalculation turned their B747 into a glider?!

soarhead
G-BTWB

GDN
02-07-2011, 01:49 PM
Sure so 15l/h at 5900/5800 rpm

Olle1975
01-23-2014, 06:26 AM
582 LC, GSC Prop 68" with 18 Degree Pitch by 75%

@ 5800 rpm and 75 mph - 13L/hr

Regards

cubtractor
01-23-2014, 12:54 PM
I average 3.5 gph and can 3.2 gph on a long flight @ 95 mph

Dave F
01-25-2014, 10:09 AM
582 pitched properly 20 to 22 litre per hour @ 5800 to 6000 rpm
WOT 29 litre per hour. with Rotax stock muffler.

Olle1975
01-25-2014, 11:47 AM
22 Liter per hour by Kitfox, how it's possible?

Position Jet needle?

Stock muffler?

Olaf

Dave F
01-25-2014, 03:00 PM
That is what a 582 burns

Dave F
01-25-2014, 03:01 PM
Bearing in mind that GDN, the creater of this thread, lives in France, and this correspondent lives in Ireland, we should be aware that US gallons (3.79 litres) are smaller than Imperial gallons (4.54 litres). In the interest of consistency, for the purpose of this discussion at least, it might be better to express / calculate fuel burn in litres.

That was the Gimli Glider -- yes it was a metric conversion mishap

Olle1975
01-26-2014, 02:57 AM
That is what a 582 burns

Hi Dave,

sry I had the last 20 hrs not more than 14L per hour.
I have a greyhead, but I think its not important for the rate of consumption!?

Regards

Olaf

Dave F
01-26-2014, 06:02 AM
you must be running at lower rpms ? like under 5400 rpm.

If wide open they suck 29 litre per hour at 100% power you must be flying in a low power range to use half the fuel.
Fuel cools your piston.

Olle1975
01-26-2014, 06:10 AM
Thats right, what is your EGT, I suspect lower than mine?

What ist WOT and a stock muffler, please?

Dave F
01-26-2014, 07:23 AM
WOT = wide open Throttle
Stock muffler is the one supplied by Rotax and modified by Kitfox to make it fit in the cowl.


What kind of tach are you using ?

Olle1975
01-26-2014, 08:42 AM
I use the Rotax tach, I suspect you use the tiny tach?

It's time for new videos, Dave :-)

What's your EGT?

Olaf

Dave F
01-26-2014, 09:18 AM
you got it -- Rotax tachs are not dependable.


EGT is perfect light brown spark plug - The indicated temperature is not a good way to compare as there are variables
-not calibrated.
-they are supposed to be calibrated at 70F

So when you fly at 0 F and the temp reads 1250 F that is not high but the same as flying in the summer at 70f the EGT will read 1180F

Olle1975
01-26-2014, 09:41 AM
EGT is perfect light brown spark plug

The same like mine....


So when you fly at 0 F and the temp reads 1250 F that is not high but the same as flying in the summer at 70f the EGT will read 1180F

Of course, during cold temperature and more airtight you get more EGT, but I think, 1250F is to much for the 582.


Videos - I think I have covered alot of Kitfox ones and still got gigabytes of videos to make......... stay tuned

I look forward to your Kitfox videos....

Dave F
01-26-2014, 01:05 PM
The same like mine....


Quote:
So when you fly at 0 F and the temp reads 1250 F that is not high but the same as flying in the summer at 70f the EGT will read 1180F

Of course, during cold temperature and more airtight you get more EGT, but I think, 1250F is to much for the 582.



1250 F is not too much but dependent upon the out side Temp, jetting etc.

Point is that the EGT gauges re not accurate as far as 1200 or 1250 but a good indicator of any changes inside the engine. Spark plug colour is your best indicator.

READ AGAIN >> So when you fly at 0 F and the temp reads 1250 F that is not high but the same as flying in the summer at 70f the EGT will read 1180F

flymadmike
01-30-2014, 04:43 AM
hi everyone from a newbie, 582 fuel burn/performance...i fly a mk2 and recently put in a blue top but with c-box at 3.47-1 ratio together with kiev 183 prop, result brill 12lt/hr at 80mph cruise 2up and keeping egt's at a respectable 1150, it's a lot quieter and a lot smoother as well.
Hope this helps.
mike

Olle1975
02-01-2014, 08:52 AM
I've found two nice videos about burning fuel during 6000 rpm and low EGT and about 5500 rpm and higher EGT. I think, the right rpm and EGT-temp is the way for a economic fly. The altitude is an additional reason.....

CLICK (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D3doKW4GfZc)

CLICK (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i9ltJIa99JI) Set a break after 10 sec.

Olaf

flymadmike
02-05-2014, 05:28 AM
At 6000rpm your engine will be drinking fuel at an alarming rate so therefore you will have lower egt's......the trick is to find a balance between rpm,egt and fuel consumption, this will depend upon many factors,carb jetting,prop type and pitch,gearbox ratio, good plugs and ignition, carb balancing and of course,weather,altitude and how well it is flown.
mike

Olle1975
03-05-2014, 10:50 PM
Here a pic of my Spark plug colour after 25 hrs....

Av8r_Sed
03-06-2014, 02:08 PM
Those plugs are looking pretty carboned up for 25 hours, not quite at the light tan color that's desireable. What is your EGT in cruise, and what type of instrument are you using to measure it?

Also, are you premixing oil or using the injection system?

Is this the condition just after returning from a flight, or was there considerable ground running time before you shut down?

Olle1975
03-07-2014, 12:41 AM
Those plugs are looking pretty carboned up for 25 hours, not quite at the light tan color that's desireable. What is your EGT in cruise, and what type of instrument are you using to measure it?Also, are you premixing oil or using the injection system?Is this the condition just after returning from a flight, or was there considerable ground running time before you shut down?


In the pic the colour is a little bit darker than real, the color is between brown and light brown, I think, it's pretty good.

In cruise I have about 1150F and I use the rotax EGT instrument to measure it.

It's an injection system and it burns 13-14L/hr during flight at 5500-5800rpm

The condition is after a flight about 50 minutes before shut down.


http://www.cfisher.com/152hournkg.html

It works more hot (EGT) than mine, isn't it?


Olaf

Dave F
03-07-2014, 04:16 AM
Looks like you doing ok -- You mixture looks ok not ideal but OK is good.

Leave it alone or run 50F hotter.
I am betting that you are running at 1150F
and OAT is likely close to freezing out 32f - 0 C or over 5000' asl

Av8r_Sed
03-07-2014, 07:41 AM
Yup, I think you're good then. The 50 minutes of ground run would explain the slightly oily appearance.

Olle1975
03-08-2014, 07:53 AM
Not ground run, 50 minutes flight....

Danzer1
03-08-2014, 08:51 AM
Olaf,

The end of the electrode looks pretty good.

Towards the base of the electrode, insulator and the bottom ring of the plug look to dark. If it is dry black - it is carbon build up (still rich). If wet black it is oil (worn rings and/or pistons).

What kind of fuel are you running?

Olle1975
03-08-2014, 11:33 PM
Thanks for this sights of indication. I'm sure the dark area is dry, I have had seen if it's wet. My engine run with unleaded ROZ 95.
The engine runs not more than 42 hrs and I have cleaned the rings for 4 hrs. The lower ring was fixed, so the sparks runs about 20 hrs with a fixed lower ring. Before the engine have had a break about 10 years, but it runs well the last 25 hrs.

Olaf

Danzer1
03-09-2014, 07:54 AM
Olaf, It looked like carbon to me too, it really isn't to bad. If it is running well and your temps and fuel consumption are in line, I might just keep an eye on it for a while.

Carbon on the base ring is a rich idle setting. Usually idle air screw adjustment - 1/4 turn at a time or at worst the clip position on the needle - up one notch for leaner.

Greg

JimS
03-09-2014, 03:40 PM
Looks like she's only firing on "one"! :D

Olle1975
03-09-2014, 11:46 PM
Carbon on the base ring is a rich idle setting. Usually idle air screw adjustment - 1/4 turn at a time or at worst the clip position on the needle - up one notch for leaner.

Danzer1
03-10-2014, 08:15 PM
Only way to tell if that will do it - is a few runups at idle only - seeings that's where the issue is (not flights) with clean plugs, quick shut down, let them cool and inspect the plugs again. Readjust and retest until you get a consistent light tan across all parts of the plug.

When testing plugs it is critical to only run to the speed you are testing and do a throttle chop and shut down to see the plug condition at the desired speed (in this case idle).

If adjusting the air screw does not get it to where it needs to be, you might try up one more on the clip (assuming the needle and idle (pilot) jet have never been messed with.

What also could possibly cause rich idle, is an incorrect float height, not often, but it happens.

I tune my bikes for hours to get them just right for each season and for my Denver altitude and it takes a lot of time (same kind of carbs). Since then I've acquired a Colortune. Google it - very rare and hard to find, usually NOS - but you can't use it on an aircraft. In a nutshell it is a clear plug so you can see the fire while you rev through all throttle settings and tune to the optimum color fire in the cylinder (fuel/air ratio) - it is way cool!

Good luck

Olle1975
03-10-2014, 11:15 PM
What do you think of this plugs, I think it works to hot, their are more grey than brown but the bottom ring is dark too?



If it's possible, post a pic from your plugs...?

My engine runs well with good temps of water and balanced egt about 1100-1150 F , great fuel consumption and brown or light brown colored plugs, what will I more. Never touch a running system, I think during this conditions the engine could be geeting very old :-)

Danzer1
03-10-2014, 11:46 PM
I think those plugs are glazed - very heavy deposits on the electrode which would be due to hard and fast acceleration on a regular basis.

Leave your tune as it is if you want, but by looking at your piston picture, you're likely going to end up doing that again sooner than you want to. Pistons should be relatively clean and rings should not need maintenance for at least several hundred hours (maybe). Carbon, if it flakes off into the combustion chamber is not generally a good thing.

My bikes are put up for the winter, I'm not planning on taking them out of storage, pulling the plugs and taking pictures of them at the moment.

I can tell you though, they are light tan (all the way including the ring base). The insulators are off white, kind of a cream or ivory color. No oil, no spots, no dark or black anywhere.

Olle1975
03-11-2014, 12:13 AM
Yes, their were getting hot and there is a dark ring during lean mixture, too?

By rotax manual you have to clean the pistons and rings every 100hrs, it isn't abnormal to get dark pistons and rings. Next reason is the oil type, I think, if you use mineral oil you will getting more carbon than synthetic oil?!

Do you have bikes only or do you fly a 582 too?

Danzer1
03-11-2014, 08:24 AM
Olaf,

First, I am going to retract my suggestion for possibly moving the needle clip - that will not correct a lean idle condition (that would be midrange).

2nd, I did not say those plugs were running lean - yes they were running hot, not allowing the deposits to fluff off as they would if proper running techniques were used. They were being run "hard" - meaning quick acceleration and/or running at wot to long. And yes they are rich at idle too.

3rd, you can be lean in one range and rich in another. There a 4 basic carburetor control circuits each controlling a different range (with overlap). 5 if you count the choke circuit. They are:

Pilot or idle circuit - closed through about 1/4 - controls idle
Throttle valve or plate and its cutaway - 1/8 to 1/2 mostly 1/8 to 1/4 - low rpm operation
Needle jet, jet needle and clip - 1/4 thru 3/4 - mid range
Main jet - 3/4 thru wot - top end

Also effecting rich or lean is fuel quality, pressure and carb float position at all rpms.

So you can be rich in one area and lean in another.

On your final comment, Rotax recommends inspecting and ONLY cleaning carbon off IF the deposit is over .5mm - that does not mean you should expect or have carbon of any thickness. But IF you do - then clean it.

Olle1975
03-11-2014, 10:27 PM
Danzer,

thanks for your technical statement!

What do you think about the oiltypes, do you prefer mineral or synthetic or full-synthetic 2 stroke oil?

Regards

Olaf

Danzer1
03-12-2014, 08:04 AM
AMSOIL fully synthetic for all my engines. Dominator for 2 strokes.

jiefuster
04-16-2014, 08:39 PM
I get 15l/hr at 56kts on my trike 582 blue head. That's totally aerodynamic
Ly 'dirty'. Castrol TT on my engine and it runs beautifully and pulls like a train

Olle1975
04-24-2014, 10:18 PM
I think you mean Castroll TTS, which is know called Castrol RS 2T?

Av8r_Sed
09-24-2014, 06:09 AM
Just some documentation on an old thread. Here's a pic of my grey head 582 plugs after 31 hours. I think they're looking pretty healthy.

Fuel: Premium unleaded 91 AKI no Ethanol
Oil Injection: Amsoil full synthetic either Interceptor or HP Marine
Mixture with HacMan system set EGT to 1150 F in cruise.
No idea why some plugs are Cad plated and some are not. They're all out of the same box/ order.

Olle1975
09-24-2014, 06:51 AM
I think, they looks pretty fine! How much fuel do you burns during travel?

Olaf

Av8r_Sed
09-24-2014, 10:51 AM
I burn about 4.5 to 5 US gallons an hour at 5800 RPM. That gives me a little under 80 mph cruise.

Olle1975
10-13-2014, 11:02 PM
Hello!

Here my sparks after 30hrs. 2 Sparks are little brighter than the others.
I cruise often by 5400-5500 rpm with 13-14 Liter/hour and 75 mph. Last flight I cruise by 6000 rpm with 17 Liter/hour and 85-90 mph. GSC 68" Prop.

Olaf

Dave F
10-14-2014, 02:49 AM
here is mine after 152 hours on same plugs

http://www.cfisher.com/152hournkg.html

oil only used Bombardier XPS mineral -
second choice Castrol Super 2 stroke. Use this for the rotary valve but in all premix engines

Olle1975
12-18-2014, 11:10 PM
Here is a little video of mine from a Kitfox III with 582 and 68" 3 blade GSC with 18 degree pitch by round about 5800 rpm static.

For info, my IAS is circa 10 mph less than a PA18 and Kitfox IV which fly byside.

Gruß

Olaf

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DD12Y_Fc2LE

Olle1975
09-08-2015, 09:14 AM
Next sparks :-)

Av8r_Sed
09-08-2015, 05:29 PM
Those are looking good Olle. 25 hours, or more?

Olle1975
09-09-2015, 01:23 AM
Thanks, round about 25 hrs, not more, during winter and spring.

Olaf

Olle1975
09-28-2016, 06:43 AM
Hey,

here a new video about the Rotax 582 fuel consumption, now with different altitudes and rpm's up to 5000 ft.

May be interesting for anybody.....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FNQPZkAyirM

Olaf

flymadmike
09-28-2016, 01:04 PM
Hi Olle, thanks to you for another excellent video which i enjoyed watching soon after you put it on youtube keep posting your videos as they are much appreciated although i do envy you the weather you get to fly in,i am in Wales and all we have is one low pressure after another so crap for flying.
Cheers mike

Olle1975
09-30-2016, 11:41 PM
Thank you, Mike!

The weather was much better than it looks like. I had a view with more than 10 miles but the sun was in front of me and the camera had to control the white-balance between desk and window. I think this is the reason why it looks foggy or misty.

Olaf