In-flight video camera's

[DesertFox4]

Wondering about the latest video systems available to us for capturing our flights. Maybe something that does not produce the "boomerang effect" when shooting through the prop and would allow audio recording of the pilot/passenger communications and decent resolution. Hopefully under $1,000. Maybe way under.;)
What's working and what's not.
Also what editing software is best/easiest to use to produce sharable videos with sound or music.

[Dead Roman]

If i were you i would look into the sanyo xacti cameras. They are ultra compact digital high def and can be had for around 500 or less depending on model. Just run an audio output from your radio to the mic input on the camera and your narration/chatter is taken care of. There are tons of mounts that will mount directly to tubing which there is no shortage of in the kitfox. Also you ca. Get a mild fisheye lense for abt 20 bux on ebay that greatly improves field of vision. As far as software, windows movie maker is super easy to use and fairly intuitive.

[Av8r3400]

Mine (http://www.rei.com/product/777564) gives the stupid "boomerang effect", see my YouTubes for what I mean.

I've talked to these folks and they say this one (http://pointofviewcameras.com/all-cameras/by-brand/drift/drift-x170.html) does not do that... Pretty reasonably priced, with a video screen and remote trigger switch, too!

It's on my short list for a good "Point of View" video camera.

I use MS Moviemaker to edit my videos, too. I'm getting better with it as I go...

[DesertFox4]

Thanks Av8r3400. I've seen the "boomerang effect". Maybe you can mount your current camera out on the strut facing in towards the pilot when you get the new one with the remote. Might work just fine if not shooting through the prop arc and gives you an interesting angle to mix with your forward facing camera.
The camera you are considering is interesting with the wrist remote control and quite wide angle lens compared to others. It looks easy to use. Not yet H.D. but not bad for the price. I think I have MS Movie Maker on my new computer. I'll have to study it a little since both you and Dead Roman have had good success with it. Good ideas and input guys. Thanks.

[HighWing]

Hi Steve,

There are a number of questions that come to mind as to your ultimate goals, but on the high end, the new Sony HD camcorder has a LanC jack that takes a corded remote that has most functions and it would allow for strut mounting. The remote connects with a 3.5mm stereo jack and can be extended with a stereo cord extension. I had a camera mounted on my first Model IV and plan on another one on my new project. It will be a long term project though, as I have some ideas for a complete redesign. Another idea for remote controlling, I have hardwired external switches to a cordless remote and used that to control the camera - with both fiberoptic cable and moving the output LED to the front of the camera. My new camera is Canon HD miniDV so the hardwired remote is in the plan.

The highest rated reasonably priced software is Adobe Premier Elements 8. That is what I plan on using as it also has DVD authoring capability with full menus like the commercially made DVDs. Costco currently has this software as well as Photoshop elements on sale on line for $119 with a $30 rebate if you can figure out how to apply for it.

I have a lot of exprience with my strut mounted camera, but don't want to bore the forum with all the frustrating issues that arose over the years I had my unit, i.e., bugs on the lens, but anyone that wants more info or a link to some sample videos can contact me direct.

Lowell

[wannafly]

whatever camera you decide to go with make sure it is mounted for the upcomeing fly in....I want to see what went on:D:D

[kitfox2009]

G`day All
I realizes this thread is almost 2 years old now, but I am ready to purchase an in-flight video camera and would appreciate "up-dated" comments on the pros and cons of the various brands. After some internet research the Oregon Scientific ATC9K looks interesting. Are these smaller "helmet cameras" any good or are they pretty much just toys? Ideally I would like to mount it under a wing but have remotely controlled operation.
Any and all comments appreciated.
Cheers
Don
Model 5 Vixen 912UL IVO IFA

[Av8r3400]

Read through this thread (http://www.backcountrypilot.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=7006). Lots of good information.

I will be getting a Drift HD170 (http://www.crutchfield.com/S-Snr4qpB1syR/p_788SHD170/Drift-Innovation-HD170-Stealth-Camera.html?tp=36196) this winter, either from Santa or I'll buy it myself... :D

[Esser]

GoPRO2 Hero Cam hands down. The only reason I wouldn't have recommended it in the past is due to the inability to tie an external audio source into it but now you can. I have the original gopro camera and it is honestly great. I take it snorkelling with me all the time its water proof to 100 real meters.

I posted this video before but if you didnt see it, I'll post it again. It was all shot on my GoPro. Tons of mounting options too btw.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wJVRs9FRDYo&feature=g-upl

Wait one minute to see the in cockpit footage

[Av8r3400]

The main advantage of the Drift over the GoPro (a fine camera, but hardly hands down when using it on an airplane) is the RF remote control, so no need to point it directly at the camera, a color screen on it for aiming and review and half the price.


Pilot's Review (Part 1) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ORYQ0wN7mU)

Pilot's Review (Part 2) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vg6NlH6LkTM)

[Esser]

Dont have time to read that at the moment but the GOPro2 has remote control as well.

[Av8r3400]

But what do you use for a camera and why?

[Les Evarts]

I've been considering a POV camera for some time. I'd suggest the AV-HD from Datatoys.com is one of the best for our purposes here because it is specifically designed for aircraft. Their FAQ section explains the differences between CMOS and CCD sensors. This is a CMOS based camera, but through both filtering and software they have dealt with the annoying "boomerang" effect of the prop.

There is a good description @ aircraftspruce:
http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/avpages/dataavhd.php

Here is a description and demo:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1SOaZCE3v-M

The newest GoPro HERO2n is very good too, providing most of things I think I need (LCD screen for setup/viewing, remote operation), but you still have the boomerang effect. Plus I think I'd rather have the recorder and camera lens separated as with the Datatoys AV-HD. They also provide an optional audio aviation headset cable.

I'll be pulling the trigger on this soon and report back.

[Esser]

Does anybody know what set up these guys have? It's a tilt and panable camera set up on the left float of the beaver. If you watch the preview and look at 1:06 you can see the guy is kneeling beside their camera rig. It is very cool. If you go to 0:45 for example you can see the type of shots it takes.

http://greatarcticairadventure.com/

[chefwarthog]

I dont know if some of you use this cam, but it sold around 600.00$ in Canada it seem to be a good cam with a lot of features....GPS, Cockpit audio, dc inlet..... Ho and boomerang filter.....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=5pOTnVG2p3w#!

I wish a health and prosperous year 2012 to all Kitfoxer....;)

[P Morel]

I've seen their ad listed on barnstormers and I have to say that it's the best I've seen so far. Wish I could justify getting one. :D:D:D

[HighWing]

In response to Esser. I don't know what mount they had on the Beaver, but I tried researching the professional mounts and they were way beyond my budget by many thousands of dollars - the mounts used on the evening news with giro stabilization like half a million - so I made my own. It evolved over sevaral years into a very complex cable controlled system with a joy stick in the cockpit to control all functions. I haven't yet asked the admins to post my albums as they are still a work in progress, but to see detailed photos Click here. http://www.teamkitfox.com/Forums/album.php?albumid=220

What I thought I needed (and now know I want) was pan and tilt to follow subjects, zoom, manual/autofucus, manual/auto aperture and something to keep bugs off the lens, that was before HD, so now HD is on the needs list as well.

To see some 90 second clips click here. http://highwingllc.com/videoarchive.html

My new project has hard points on the left lift strut for a new system, but that is later, I need to finish and get flying first.
Lowell

[Esser]

Wow HighWing. You put some serious effort into that mount. I am curious though, why didn't you do all servo controlled instead of the cable? the cable to me just seems much harder to do. The closest thing I found when I was googling PTZ cameras that give professional quality is this one:
http://www.panasonic.com/business/provideo/AW-HE100.asp
Still 10,000 though. I'd rather buy a set of floats when the time comes. Perhaps I will make my own. I like your set up but the only thing I would like is for it to shoot backwards too. Easily done if I decided to make my own. I would probably also build mine just to house a gopro hero. It is remote controlled so that would simplify some things as well.

[kitfox2009]

Santa is coming up with the new Drift HD POV (as soon as Homeland Security, CAN & USPS, Customs, etc.) all have their part in delaying shipment. I plan on mounting it on an extension pole ahead of the jury struts.I expect there will be many modifications/experimentations over the next few months. I will try and report back after I figure out what is best.

Have a great New Year everyone and safe,fun Kitfoxing to all!!

Today was a super fly, TT on the Vixen just passed 300 hours!!

Cheers
Don

[Av8r3400]

Me too! Drift Stealth HD170... :D

[akarmy]

Lowell, that is the coolest camera setup I've ever seen. Nicely done!

[Paul Z]

NFLIGHTCAM+ The Latest Aviation POV Camera at Aircraft Spruce $499, at Sporty's $599, the $100 Dollars will pay for an extra Battery, & Sim Card.

[HighWing]

[quote=Esser;20585]Wow HighWing. You put some serious effort into that mount. I am curious though, why didn't you do all servo controlled instead of the cable? the cable to me just seems much harder to do.

Yes the cable is challenging, but bieng a more mechanical type guy doable. But after the system was up and running, I thought about putting hard points on various parts of the airplane and being able to move the camera around for different perspectives. Servos and wiring ports would do the trick perfectly in that respect, so I started doing some experimenting with RC servos because these were what I was most familiar with. This is what I learned. RC servos come with three and five pole servo motors. The three pole motor will move a third of a revolution with each movement incriment. A five pole motor will move one fifth of a revolution. Even with a five pole motor with an additional 5:1 reduction gear mounted externally, I could easily see the motor step pulses during a slow pan shot. Then there was the design of a joy stick control that was not self centering like on a RC radio control transmitter. I just gave up on the idea as I am somewhat comfortable with electronics, but far from expert, and it sounded overwhelming to get what I needed.

Stepper motors are where the solution will be found, but that is another ballgame. I did some experimenting with that as well, but bulk and cost factored into giving up on that, given the need for stepper motor controllers with joy stick input and my relative ignorance of the whole CNC thing. I suspect there is someone on the forum who could interface a laptop with stepper motors, but that guy is not me. The cable system worked fine especially after I did a rework and put ball bearings in all moving systems and it required very little maintenance but did require straight runs of cable. And as John Pitkin has remarked, some special tools in the shop.

My new system will be mechanical as well, but different. I have done a bit of experimenting on that as well, but it needs to wait until I am a bored between flights Kitfox flyer rather than a never bored wanna fly builder.

Risking boring some even more. There is a protocol called LanC. It was developed by Sony and is on some high end camcorders and professional video camers. It allows for a remote controller to be plugged into the camera using a 3.5 mm stereo type jack. The controller will have functions for proportional zoom (slow to fast), record on/off, and manual/auto focus - some have manual/auto iris controll as well. It is really simple to hook up and use. I had that on my first camera. Then with a camera upgrade LanC was not on the new camera and I opted to do what is in the photos, I hard wired into the cordless remote and removed the IR LED from the remote and hardwired that to a positon in front fo the camera. It worked fine with the exception of the proportional zoom. Zoom was one speed only. A note on bugs. Most of the significant videos I took were on long cross country flights in groups of four or more airplanes. Once when departing Hayfork, in Northern California, a bug hit almost squarely in the center of the lens. It essintially rendered useless all footage of that flight segment.
Lowell

[Paul Z]

After looking at your design, the only question is which Defense Contractor do you work for? That is one intricate design! I have seen similar gimbaled FLIR Systems! Great Job!


In response to Esser. I don't know what mount they had on the Beaver, but I tried researching the professional mounts and they were way beyond my budget by many thousands of dollars - the mounts used on the evening news with giro stabilization like half a million - so I made my own. It evolved over sevaral years into a very complex cable controlled system with a joy stick in the cockpit to control all functions. I haven't yet asked the admins to post my albums as they are still a work in progress, but to see detailed photos Click here. http://www.teamkitfox.com/Forums/album.php?albumid=220

What I thought I needed (and now know I want) was pan and tilt to follow subjects, zoom, manual/autofucus, manual/auto aperture and something to keep bugs off the lens, that was before HD, so now HD is on the needs list as well.

To see some 90 second clips click here. http://highwingllc.com/videoarchive.html

My new project has hard points on the left lift strut for a new system, but that is later, I need to finish and get flying first.
Lowell

[Av8r3400]

I've posted a couple of videos from my new Drift HD170 on YouTube.

I haven't figured out the companion editing software (Magix MovieEditPro MX) so these are direct from the camera...

Link 1 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-jAuUIT80tQ)

Link 2 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vgguzIAOs1s)

I've become a huge fan of this little camera!

[HighWing]

Thanks Paul,

(Quote) which Defense Contractor do you work for?

I wish I did. I was discouraged from Engineering by a high school math teacher. Spent my life in health care, but just can't seem to get the tinker out of the tinkerer. Just spent three days making a lock of sorts for the cockpit door.
Lowell

[chefwarthog]

Could a security HD cam with pan tilt and zoom like this one http://spyville.com/dome-camera.html, can do the job under the wing of a Kitfox???

[Esser]

Im sure you could make it work but the resolution would be low. On that camera it has only 480 lines of tv resolution. It would be interesting to see if some one could use that for parts to make.one for a true HD camera

[HighWing]

There are two reasons to have the tilt and pan. One is to be able to move the camera to different angle to add variety to the video and the other is to follow an object that appears to be moving during flight. I am pretty sure the former would work fine if you could adapt a HD camera, but you would want to decide if the latter is important to you then experiment to see if it would work. I don't think I would take the sellers word for that.
Lowell

[chefwarthog]

More and more we can purchase Cam that are inexpensive, some security cam now are HD, with pan tilt and zoom but the casing are little bit to long, would it be wise to inset the top of the casing in to the wing and let just the dome come off underneath, from a ring like an inpection hole?:confused:

[Esser]

I haven't seen a true 1080 high deff pan tilt security camera that was under $20,000 yet

[Paul Z]

We you might not wish you worked for a Defense Contractor after the upcoming Defense Spending Cuts. I am waiting for the Layoffs to come, in the very near future!


Thanks Paul,

(Quote) which Defense Contractor do you work for?

I wish I did. I was discouraged from Engineering by a high school math teacher. Spent my life in health care, but just can't seem to get the tinker out of the tinkerer. Just spent three days making a lock of sorts for the cockpit door.
Lowell

[DesertFox4]

I found a video by Phil Boyer addressing the strobe effect from the propeller and the GoPro camera. Seems like a relatively easy modification and has a good result.
http://vimeo.com/22302989

Did a quick search and could not locate the size adapter ring mentioned in the video yet. Maybe others will have better luck finding an retail seller for the adapter ring.

[Esser]

Good find!

[Paul Z]

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/674665-REG/Tiffen_77NDK3_77mm_Digital_Neutral_Density.html. I did a search and I believe I found the same kit.

[DesertFox4]

Paul, every time I did a search and B&H came up that kit had a different price. From $49.00 to $498.00. ?????:confused:

[Paul Z]

I would search on Amazon looking for the 1.5 Filter 46mm. Looking at the search I did it came up with a Tiffen 77mm Digital Neutral Density Filter Kit. When I filtered it to 46mm, http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/674655-REG/Tiffen_46NDK3_46mm_Digital_Neutral_Density.html it is $42.

The 25.5mm to 46mm steps up ring is at their site http://camerafilters.net/shopsite_sc/store/html/Step_Up_Rings.html $5.88 = $5.00 shipping