This looks good!

[Shadowrider]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=98&v=pvD_aOdJYfM&embeds_euri=h ttps%3A%2F%2Fwww.avweb.com%2F&source_ve_path=MjM4N TE&feature=emb_title

[bumsteer]

Slick tool. Unfortunately, the $650 cost is a bit steep for me. Of course I'm saying that as I look at 2 cuts on my hand from zip ties.

Rick

[Pushboy]

I really like tools -- so that's pretty cool.

I'm curious though, and forgive my ignorance (I still have a ton to learn - especially about electronics) but what is wrong with zip ties?

[Av8r3400]

I learned how to tie loom lacing when I bought my first Kitfox 4-1050. It may have had three temporary zip ties in it. So I needed to learn how in order to maintain the wiring.

I tied the entire harness when I built the Mangy as well. I hate cutting my fingers and hands on clipped zip tie ends.

(My old 'Fox)
32245

[Shadowrider]

Looks good! I bought a roll of lacing string and still have 80percent of it left after doing 2 aircraft. Pushboy you don't want to use zip ties for wiring. You are building this plane to last 30 years and zipties will just deteriorate and break off. They also chaff the wire. They become hard and brittle. Not to mention you cut your fingers on them. You want to lace all your wires so they will last and hold up.

[efwd]

Way to be optimistic Dustin. I hope nothing electrical behind my seat causes problems in thirty years time. As soon as I need to replace a wire or something, I will be cutting every wire tie off just to retrieve a bad wire. I will be buying your left over stuff then because I thought I had cut my wire ties off flush but low and behold, BLOOD. And, skin gets thinner and thinner with age.

[Av8r3400]

Eddie - Tip for tying harness laces, go to your local sewing supply store and buy the best small scissors they have. Spend $50 if you have to. It will be well worth it.

[Pushboy]

Looks good! I bought a roll of lacing string and still have 80percent of it left after doing 2 aircraft. Pushboy you don't want to use zip ties for wiring. You are building this plane to last 30 years and zipties will just deteriorate and break off. They also chaff the wire. They become hard and brittle. Not to mention you cut your fingers on them. You want to lace all your wires so they will last and hold up.


Ah -- that makes sense. I guess I'll add lacing to another skill I need to acquire in the build process. Thanks for the info.

[alexM]

On the topic of lacing, I need to order some. Now I'm faced with too many choices (!).

I think tying the laces will be easier than choosing which type. So...
1) Nylon
2) Polyester
3) Waxed
4) Not waxed
5) Continuous
6) Individual
5) Something I'm missing?

[jrevens]

Just a couple of thoughts to add to the wire tie conversation… I think lacing is fine, but wire ties are too, and they’re MUCH quicker & easier - to install & to remove. The fact is that many aircraft manufacturers do use wire ties. Pilatus uses them on their new aircraft, as I’ve seen at their finishing facility here in Denver. Those are some very sophisticated, expensive aircraft. Rotax uses wire ties all over their new engines. Their are some cheap ties that may get old & brittle, but I’ve used the T&B (Thomas & Betts) brand, for example, almost exclusively on both of my homebuilts and never had a single one break or come loose - not one - or had any other problems with them in over 28 years on my T-18. A tiny bit of care to cut the tails with a small wire cutter results in an absolutely smooth, scratch-free assembly. The surface contact area is greater with a tie vs lacing string. When tightened properly, there is no movement to cause abrasion nor excessive tightness digging into insulation. The only negative for me is that they are more expensive… a very minor, non-issue in the grand scheme of building an airplane.

[desertdave]

I use these cutters for zips. It gets snug up against the locking section. No more sharp barbs left to cut myself on.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000JNRQJ6/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

32263

[Dave S]

I could be accused of a "hybrid" solution. I did use zip tires where appropriate; however, leftover material from the wing rib lacing (which was plenty) was used in places where a bundle of wires seemed to be asking for lacing. Mostly continuous method for a section, then picked it up again to keep it a manageable length.

Yeah, I think the cutoff ends of zip ties can be a PITF (pain in the fingers) however, safety wire does a far superior job on fingers if not correctly turned back (yup, no need to ask how I am aware of that).

[Billiken]

32264
I’m always imagining how I want to build the kit. I like the idea of lacing and was told to use the thread from rib stitching. I noticed in a photograph from a newer B787 wheel well that they had incorporated both methods for securing the wiring harnesses. I was a little surprised to see that it had laced wires. And that’s a lot of wires for a 500k pound airplane that is predominantly electric. Electric brakes.

[Av8r3400]

I used cheap zip ties to bundle the looms then tied them to finish. I prefer the waxed polyester lacing cord. It won't stretch or loosen.

John: When I was in the zone, I could tie the lacing and trim them almost as fast as using zip ties. When tied properly the lacing goes around the loom 3 times providing a secure, chafe free loom.

[jiott]

I agree with John, good quality zip ties are nooo problem. I have them all over my Kitfox and have done all my own maintenance and annuals for 10 years, and would you believe, not one single scratch that drew blood.

[Av8r_Sed]

I've always used a zip tie gun similar to this one. With the flush cutter, there are no sharp ends to let the red stuff out of one's hands.

https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/81FrjXWg1QL._AC_UL400_.jpg

[mike92104]

I work as a lighting technician in theater, so we're constantly using cable ties all over the place. We've found using a set of "flush cutters" is the best way of eliminating sharp edges.

Something like these:

https://www.amazon.com/Cutter-Lightweight-Klein-Tools-D275-5/dp/B000GTMZHG/ref=sr_1_5?crid=26RBN4W8P3XLA&keywords=flush+cuts&qid=1683872466&sprefix=flu%2Caps%2C1859&sr=8-5

[jrevens]

That’s exactly what I use, Mike.

[Shadowrider]

I would suggest cobra ties if you are going to use zip ties.

https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0439/1999/9127/products/ChangeBlue_32d91ba1-cfa1-4206-80da-28ebead50da7_800x.jpg?v=1613142040

https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0439/1999/9127/products/cobra-235_1d6b546b-fc43-42ae-b63d-0a952241745f_800x.jpg?v=1613142040

[PapuaPilot]

Cobra ties are nice, but a good flush cutter will give you similar results and you won't be cutting your hands and arms reaching in.<br><br>