Quad Fox Build

[Kitfoxfly5521]

Hello everyone! We received our kit a few months ago and it has been a very rewarding process so far! This part of the forum has been a lot of fun to watch and figured I should jump in as well! I have really enjoyed following everyones builds and I have learned a lot.

We came up with the Quad Fox because we just added a new baby girl to the family and now we have 4 of us building the plane! I have tried to make it as much as a family project as I can!

We a currently working on the rudder pedals. I have begun fitting the torque tubes with the bearings and only had to remove a little of the powder coating from the inside of the right pilot side pedal but the co pilot side still has a bit of friction. i have tried to leave the torque tubes untouched but I think I may need to remove some powder coating to account for the co pilot left pedal has a bit of a bow in it. I have seen some of you try to straighten it out and I have played with that without much luck. There isn't any friction depending on the bearing location but there are times as the bearing rotates it will grab in certain areas then there is a little friction.

I have noticed that the bolt that goes through the torque tube bushing on the mounting bracket isnt anywhere close to the right length. Has anyone else had seen that? Seems odd that it would be that far off and the fix would be to go up a size. The manual calls for a AN4-11A the threads barely reach the nylock part of the nut so i dont think just a thin washer will fix it.


The holidays have been a slow build time but we look forward to getting back at it!

Happy New Year!
Michael

[Geek]

Great name for the plane Michael!! I do think it a bit unfair as it appears you have a professional flight control adjuster adjusting your control rods!! Great that you are involving the family in this build. Some of my best memories of my dad are where he and I are in the shop building something.

Looks like you have a washer under both the bolt side and the nut. I'll admit to not looking at my manual to see what it called out but I did look at mine to see how much thread was showing. It wasn't the three full threads that I would normally expect BUT the end did just protrude through the nylock. I looked at my install and while I can't see the bolt side, I did use thin washers on the nut and it would not be a long stretch to think I used a thin one on the bolt side. As I got further into my build, I did order about 100 of the 1/4 normal and thin washers and the same for the #10 and #8s. I have used them in place of what was called out in a few places for certain.

Gary

[Kitfoxfly5521]

Thanks Gary! I do have a bit of advantage with my helper! I always loved tinkering in the garage and working on things with my dad an i hope to continue that!

I just have the one washer on the nut side but I may go down to the thin and see if that helps more than I think it would. I also may check the nut. I am away from the airplane and have been for about 2 weeks but I remember the AN3 nuts having a thinker and thinner nut maybe I grabbed the wrong one.

[alexM]

Those torque tube bushings look a little different than mine. It's possible they changed the part and the manual needs updating. In any case, adjusting bolt length and washer thickness in order to get proper thread engagement is just part of airplane building. Hopefully you've picked up one of those AN hardware gauges that allow you to identify what is in your hand (and not just trust the label on the bag). I use mine a lot.

Also, I had to remove ALL powder coating from inside those tubes in order to get free motion.

It's great that your family is involved. Keep it up!

[bbs428]

Lucky you - to be in Idaho so close to the mothership, lol.

Looks like our fellow airmen have you on track. Those torque tubes can be a pita. I also had to supplement my AN hardware, especially those thin washers!
You have to be part superman to endeavor to build a family, a career and a plane all at the same time!

All the best to you Michael, keep up the great work!

[Kitfoxfly5521]

Those torque tube bushings look a little different than mine. It's possible they changed the part and the manual needs updating…

I ended up swapping them with the size up bolt -12A work perfect! I just ordered a gauge! That was my first thought that the bolt was marked incorrectly.

I played with the tubes some more and got them moving freely! I put some grease on them and they feel perfect! Just took a bit of confidence to take more material away.

[Kitfoxfly5521]

It has been a very productive week. I cleaned up the remain friction on the rudder pedals, match drilled and then greased the bearings. They move very well! My brother in law was in town so we went to work on those rudder pedals them selves. Ive heard those are a pain! We spent about 4 hours working on those a got them to move very nice! We used a wire brush to clean up the inside of the tube where the bearing goes as the welds created some friction. The wire brush was slow but effective. We only needed a small amount of sanding on the bearings.

After that we turned out attention to the mounting bracket bearings. These required a bit of sanding. We first cleaned out the torque tub and then took some material off of the bearings. We test fitted the whole assembly into the fuselage. For the most part okay, with the center mount in the center of the rail the ends were a little on the long side and we didn't think a nut much less a socket would fit under it. So I took each side to the Disk sander side of my belt sander and to off a little of the torque tube to bring the outside mount to the center of the mounting rail. Worked great! We checked out measurements 100 times and drilled and installed the rudder pedals. I drilled the holes without the floor boards in so i could make sure I had everything aligned and of course i torqued everything down and realized i never put on the floor board! Doing everything twice as usual!

I then reinstalled the rudder pulleys for the adjustable rudder pedals and installed the springs. I found that one of the clevis bolts threads were to short so when I torqued it down it torqued itself to the bolt rather the pulley and the spring wont go all the way through because the nut is slightly covering the hole. The rest of the master cylinders were install. I used the washers at the base to try and set the master cylinder to the side that the pedal was favoring to limit binding.







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[Kitfoxfly5521]

We cut and installed the side panels. I cut the excess off the panels by scoring with a box cutter then bending slight to break it on that line. This method worked very well. I cleaned the edge with the belt sander to remove just a little more material and the a file to really clean the edge. They came out very nice! I do not like the idea of use screws to hold on the panels. Im sure someone on here has had a better idea. I was thinking of AN526-440R4 screws with nut plates on the back side.

I also started to work on the seat pan. I am not proud of my work on this one. I thought it would be better to cut the slots for the vertical tudes on the back first and it would have worked had I slowed down and looked at it harder but drew a line where the tube was and started to cut and i did even think that the tube is angled so i was removing way to much material. I think it is still okay but a humbling reminder to slow down and think. Once i noticed it i took a 1/2 inch drill bit as a guide to the thickness on the tube the pan rests on and marked a line to cut the excess off. It is a little closer than i thought it would be but i still think its okay. This allowed me to cut the slot for the tube more accurately.

I placed the pan in the plane and then marked the center console and cut the notch for that. I can sit in the plane! That was a fun step to finally be able to sit in the plane. The aileron push tube does rub just slightly on the far left deflection. If i push the tube all the down it doesnt rub but there is a very small tolerance between the two. I am wondering that when i adjust the push pull tubs and i tighten the locking nuts i can lock it angled down a bit further. I hope that makes sense.



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[alexM]

Fess up. You made airplane noises when you sat in it, didn't you?

[Kitfoxfly5521]

Fess up. You made airplane noises when you sat in it, didn't you?

I absolutely did! Pretty sure the manual tells you too!

[rv9ralph]

I do not like the idea of use screws to hold on the panels. Im sure someone on here has had a better idea. I was thinking of AN526-440R4 screws with nut plates on the back side.

I used nut plates for the console sides. That is the best long term solution, sheet metal screws will eventually enlarge the holes.

[Geek]

I used nut plates for the console sides. That is the best long term solution, sheet metal screws will eventually enlarge the holes.

Agree with Ralph on this one. I used #6 AL Rivnuts on mine and they work perfectly. Again the disclaimer for Rivnut haters; in used the Loctite 680 when I installed them and there is no way they will spin.

Gary

[jiott]

Don't forget Tinnerman nuts are a great option to nutplates and rivnuts. Much easier/quicker to install, last forever (they are hardened spring steel), give some float to allow for some misalignment, nearly instant replacement if that is ever required, and no special tools needed.

[Kitfoxfly5521]

I used nut plates for the console sides. That is the best long term solution, sheet metal screws will eventually enlarge the holes.

Thanks Ralph! I assumer you used flush mounted rivets as well? Thats the route i think i will go.

[Kitfoxfly5521]

Don't forget Tinnerman nuts are a great option to nutplates and rivnuts…


I did use tinnerman nuts in the floor boards. Great option! One issue i have with those is i drilled the holes for the side panels in the middle of the center console (1/2inch) from the bottle. i havent found any that have that length to reach the hole. But maybe im just not looking hard enough.

[rv9ralph]

Thanks Ralph! I assumer you used flush mounted rivets as well?

Yes, flush rivets. It is not that difficult to do. If you don't have a jig for the nut plates, you can use the nut plate for a jig to drill the holes fro the rivets. But if you are doing a lot of nut plates of the same size, the jig makes it quick and easy.

[jiott]

I did use tinnerman nuts in the floor boards. Great option! One issue i have with those is i drilled the holes for the side panels in the middle of the center console (1/2inch) from the bottle. i havent found any that have that length to reach the hole. But maybe im just not looking hard enough.

This problem can be solved by relieving the edge of the console (just notch it up) so that the tinnerman nut will reach the hole.

[Kitfoxfly5521]

Yes, flush rivets. It is not that difficult to do. If you don't have a jig for the nut plates, you can use the nut plate for a jig to drill the holes fro the rivets. But if you are doing a lot of nut plates of the same size, the jig makes it quick and easy.


It does look simple enough. I can see how using the nut plate as a jig would work fine. If you don't mind me asking which nut plate and rivets did you use. I think i found the MK1000-06 would work with a AN526-632 screw but i am getting lost in the rivet selection. There are so many options and id like to order just once.

[efwd]

I didn't use anything and after 520hrs and several removal/installs, I dont have any trouble with the screws stripping out. Interestingly, the tinnermans that are used at the horizontal stabilizer close out panels have been an issue. I have had several screws strip and require extra efforts to remove from the tinnermans. Go Figure.

[jrevens]

I’m not saying it’s the case here Eddie, but if the wrong screws are used with any particular tinnerman nut, that can happen. I’m sure you just used what was in your kit, but it can happen… you may have had a mis-match. They are made of a harder spring steel than many common screws. Like Jim, I like the tinnermans for some applications also.

[efwd]

Ahh, I bet your absolutely correct John. I replaced my original screws. Im not sure if it was those that have stripped or if its the new Stainless ones I have now. I noticed that these two types of screws are slightly different size so I bet your right. I know that I don't put too much torque on these that I have now so I have been having pretty good luck lately.

[PapuaPilot]

Stainless steel screws/threads fail at a lower torque than steel ones. The thread pitch could be slightly different too, which may explain your problem.

[Kitfoxfly5521]

We have made good progress this month. last half has been slow but feeling good about the progress.

Finished up the rudder pedals but forgot that I sanded down weld a little under one of the master cylinder brackets. I have some epoxy resin on order so everything needs to back apart again. I also started to work on the tail fairings. The one that attaches to the tail is ready to cut the top and bottoms off for proper size but all ribs are formed and the transitions look good.

I still have some rubbing on the seat pan. Only on the far left deflection. Anyone have any ideas? I was thinking that during rigging the flight controls and setting the proper limit on the limit screws would help. Maybe the deflection is too much to start with. Seems unlikely though. I should add it only rubs when im sitting in it.

[bbs428]

More than a few members here have added wood blocks under the seats to prevent jammed/impaired flight controls. I had some nice balsa blocks that worked nice without the extra weight. If it's rubbing now imagine what would happen in some turbulence, or if some weight challenged passenger was riding with you! Like me! Lol. A search of TeamKitfox would bring you several solutions.

Keep up the great work Michael!

[jiott]

Agree with Brett, you need some blocks under there. Also, that control rod that passes under the seat has a slight bend in it; on mine I increased the bend angle just slightly more to eliminate any interference and also installed a couple of blocks.

[Kitfoxfly5521]

Thanks guys! I think I will try the blocks first! Bending that rod would freak me out! There was pretty good clearance without me in it and seems like good insurance for the possibility of a cracked seat pan!

[jiott]

Make sure when you do the final control adjustment that this rod ends up with the bend hanging down.

[Kitfoxfly5521]

Make sure when you do the final control adjustment that this rod ends up with the bend hanging down.


Thanks! I have heard of that and i made sure it was as far down as it could go and also checked to make sure i had that installed the correct way.