Kitfox Series 7 Super Sport - Show Me Fox [Archive]

Jason Murphy

09-29-2022, 10:20 PM

Prepped jury struts per manual. Attempted to fit jury strut n the right wing. Attempts were unsuccessful.

Started at the location recommended by the manual. Working with the rear strut first the lower bracket is moved up and down the lift strut. The aft portion of the jury strut is oriented vertically both inboard / outboard and fore and aft. The forward upward location is checked until oriented directly to the center of the forward spar tube and in alignment with the rear tube of the jury strut. This is made easy by the prefabricated upper bracket. The lower bracket is then fitted.

The lower forward bracket is where I started having trouble. When I attempted to fasten the lower forward portion of the jury strut to the lift strut. It would pull the whole assembly out of alignment. After several hours of frustration I gave up and emailed Kitfox for assistance. I feel that the forward lower clamp may not be up to specification, I await a reply to see if there is a better technique or additional solutions.

Enjoying my new found space I contacted the future owner and ask if I would be able to rent the space. He was open to the idea but his asking price was far beyond my budget. I plan to return the project back home after the jury struts have been fitted.

I do believe I omitted in a previous post that I have secured a propeller for the airplane. It has been previously owned, has about 800 hours of use. A purchase price was agreed upon by the seller and I. It will likely be shipped in a few weeks by the owner when he returns home.

Returned home to organize my workshop. Per information from kitfox I will not need the wing jig in the future for the build and there is no longer a reason to have them bonded to the floor. The jig was broke loose from the floor and stored away for use later if needed. Cleaned work area in preparation to bring fuselage and wings back home which will likely occur after the jury struts have been fitted.

Purchased sanding block from the local auto parts store to assist with polishing. I would like to revisit polishing my main gear seeking a more refined shine.

May attempt to clean the inside of the wing tanks tomorrow during down time at work.

DesertFox4

09-30-2022, 08:05 AM

You are moving at a brisk pace Jason. Nice spacious shop too. Enjoying your build process. Thanks for sharing.

Jason Murphy

10-17-2022, 07:15 PM

You are moving at a brisk pace Jason. Nice spacious shop too. Enjoying your build process. Thanks for sharing.

Oh I wish I was building in that area this whole time. I am back in my basement, I was only able to use that space for a brief time.

I actually had to move the right wing in then the fuselage then the left wing. Working on spar doublers where the wings attach to the fuselage right now.

Progress has been slowed a bit because I am preparing for my Instrument Checkride which will be on the 24th. Next goal after that will be CFI

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Jason Murphy

10-26-2022, 11:46 AM

Work has been put on the back burner to focus on my instrument rating. I was unable to take my check ride due to thunderstorms which lasted for 2 days when the check ride was scheduled.

Several entries have been consolidated.

Worked on polishing the main landing gear. There are cosmetic distortions from when I had hand sanded to remove the swirls which were to help paint bond to the metal. Using a sanding block to eliminate finger grooves. Initial work was very promising. It will require several hours of hand sanding to gently remove the blemishes. Plan to work up to 2000 grit and apply polish.

Sanded the floorboard of the baggage compartment to provide a relief area for the autopilot mounting bracket and baggage sack. The floor boards should lie flat. I may order matching suede material to cover the floorboards which would match the upholstery.

Contacted kitfox regarding upholstery options. Need to decide on a thickness for the seat.

Over the past few weeks I have fit 7 of the 8 sets of spar attachment brackets. I am using the last inside bracket to provide the appropriate contour when stoning the fuselage to fit the internal diameter of the wing.

Drilled the “drill later” holes in the lift strut attachment bracket on the left wing.
Prep surfaces for bonding. I will delay bonding until I have a full day to bond the brackets. This way I do not get in a hurry and I am able to get the job done without rushing.

Jason Murphy

10-26-2022, 11:49 AM

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20221026/b3bf98b1086ae14f07cfcf180a9d89ba.jpg
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20221026/ad483849149defbd5bbc5549a30f9ef4.jpg
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20221026/f492f808abfb8004975efb3d9a223ef3.jpg
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20221026/7d35e5ce662f5c31628aa4e6261f3abd.jpg
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20221026/fc3a48eea7a15891197d17532cd6408f.jpg

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Jason Murphy

10-27-2022, 11:15 PM

Bond and Rivet Lift Strut Brackets. This job is a mess.

Made relief cuts for spar attach brackets in No.1 rib.

Dry fit left fuel tank.

Received previously loved propeller from a friend and fellow Kitfox owner.

Hardwood

10-31-2022, 02:50 AM

Hardwood

10-31-2022, 02:58 AM

“Had to remove cured hysol from trailing edge of wing.”

Jason, did you use chemicals to remove that Hysol or just sanded it? I have some areas on my horizontal stabilizer that needs cleanup I just haven’t gotten to that yet so I thought I should ask. I do believe the wings in my garage are hanging by the forward spar so I also need to look up what you mentioned in the wing manual. You are documenting everything quite well, thanks for the details.

Jason Murphy

10-31-2022, 07:48 AM

Regarding the cured Hysol, I guess I should clarify a little bit.

I guess I should say semi cured Hysol, it had been about about 30 to 45 min since it had been mixed and was getting pretty setup. I also added micro balloons for corrosion protection and to thicken it a bit and make sure it stays where I put it.

Denatured Alcohol and paper towels work well for the first hour or so. After it gets setup you need to upgrade to something that’s a little abrasive like scotch brite and denatured alcohol. Beyond a day or two when it’s fully cured your pretty much stuck with abrasives like sandpaper.

Thanks for checking out my build log, feel free to comment or make suggestions.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Jason Murphy

10-31-2022, 07:52 AM

I was about to ask what the blue stuff was inside of that last rib but then you answered my questions. I do like the matching contours you have on the corners of the horizontal stabilizer and the elevator. I just ordered some superfil so I think I’ll be getting my hands dirty soon. Matt

I would also suggest ordering a bag of micro balloons to use with the Superfil. Using it like the flocked cotton it will keep the Superfil from sagging. I just bought the small bag from aircraft spruce and ended up with a bag that’s bigger than an ice cream tub.

Yes Superfil is an absolute must. If you look at my original post with the link to my build log on the EAA build log I just posted an email I had sent to someone with a list of tools that I have used which made life easier.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Jason Murphy

10-31-2022, 11:57 PM

Bond and Rivet Lift Strut Brackets on Right Wing. Of all the tasks to complete both required and self induced no matter how tedious this is my least favorite. I failed to mention it during a previous post. Used a piece of mason line to ensure holes which must be drilled are aligned with rivet line in the spar.

Continue polishing landing gear. They are beginning to come around. Minor distortions from not using a sanding block for initial polish are becoming less prominent.

Jason Murphy

11-01-2022, 05:55 AM

Attached is an email to someone interested in a list of tools that I found handy during the build. This is by no means a comprehensive list.

This isn't an inclusive list and it's what I have found helpful. I apologize about the delay but I wanted to meddle through my work area.

Angle Drill (I am using an Avery) incredible tool to get into tight places.

Numbered, lettered, fractional drill bit set (or bits that are just under the size of the reamer) use these to clean out powder coating so your reamer fits in. Recently I have used a letter N drill before reaming 5/16 holes

Drill bit stops. Must have! Prevents gouging critical parts when you break through.

Sheet metal seamer and snips. To “massage” or tweak the metal. Seamer spreads out the pressure and makes a more uniform bend.

1/8, 1/4, 3/8 NPT taps (don't go out and buy them

At least 100 1/8” clecos

Reloading Scale / Kitchen scale (something to
Measure in grams) to mix Hysol and Superfil with. I typically will
Mix batches of about 20 grams of Hysol at a time. I do a lot of mixing but I have wasted very little product.

20 mL slip tip (not leur-lok) syringes. Applying Hysol reuse until the plunger pulls out and toss when your done with them.

Popsicle sticks, lots! You will use 2 or 3 each time you mix hysol.

Supplemental lighting. Work Lights, “trouble” lights, as much light as you can get!

Storage / Organization options. I used ziplock bags and a plastic shoebox. I sorted the hardware according to type bolts, nuts, washers, ect and put the bags of parts into ziplock. So this ziplock bag contains all the bolts for this part of the project.

Needle files (get a decent set) use mine to debur where I have drilled fix an errant hole ect. I use these frequently. Highly recommend.

Sandpaper silicone carbide variety. I have up to 2500 grit but I also like my aluminum parts polished. (Flitz polish does a great job, you can also use it on plastic. I have not tried it on a windshield yet but they were doing it at Oshkosh.

Sanding blocks, a variety of sizes. I used a 1x2 that was about 2 ft long to help shape the end caps on my rudder and horizontal. Currently using a 1/4 sheet and 1/3 sheet polishing my main landing gear.

Superfil lightweight body filler not included in the kit. You can fix a lot of sins with Superfil and sandpaper.

Epoxy primer (not in the kit) and catalyst. Once again needed to cover bare metal and over SuperD that covers metal. Superfil over wood will be covered with epoxy varnish (included in the kit)

Micro stop countersink - 100 degree countersink used with flush rivets. Sure you can use a debur tool but you have zero control over the depth. Also countersink bits for the tool.

Debur tool (I have an Avery pretty happy with it.)

Going back to Clecos, side clamp clecos are amazing for clamping the edges of sheet metal. They have a small footprint and a firm grip what more can you ask for. A bit spendy at $5 each but the right tool for the job. I have 1” models.

Rivet squeezer (with dimple dies) you will eventually use solid rivets on the kit. A squeezer can be used in the solid rivets as well as dimpling sheet metal.

Dimple dies (comes with a squeezer) if you choose not to get a squeezer then ATS sells dimple dies you use in your hand rivet puller.

Hand rivet puller. I have a Marson super happy with it. I also bought a cheap sacrificial one that I don't care if I grind on (5 bucks at Walmart)

While we are on the topic of rivet guns… I bought a Milwaukee power squeezer and I honestly like my hand one better. I feel that the hand one is more forgiving because you can continue to center things up. The
Milwaukee you pull the trigger and if your off a bit your river was pulled lop sided. I would say the jury is out on this one. Cannot say that I recommend others likely have a different opinion.

Dry fit hardware. Fine thread. Hardware store junk that you use to dry fit parts and save your good hardware. Easy to tell the difference between AN cad plated good hardware and zinc plated junk hardware.

Extra AN hardware, your going to order from spruce at some point throw some extra common hardware in there to have on hand if something needs replaced.

Torque stripe. Apply to hardware after it has been torqued to spec. A visual cue that nut is been torqued. Also serves as a safety because you know your nuts are tight during inspection and preflight

Tap and Die set great for chasing threads that are filled with powder coat. Once again you need the fine thread don't go get a crummy cheap see you will probably have to buy the taps you need later and they are always cheaper by the set.

EZ out (not something I would run out and buy) but every project is one broken bolt from hours of trouble.

Valve stem tool for putting tires on. I like the one that's t handle shaped with a short cable you can thread onto the valve stem.

Safety wire pliers / twister. Not 100% needed but saves a lot of headache. Get a decent set like milbar. The cheap sets have really aggressive teeth and the side cutters suck.

Plumb Bob for jury struts, finding centerline of the fuselage ect.

Squares - Speed square, carpenters square I typically use a small 12” although I have had my 24” out on more than one occasion.

Level Torpedo, 24” 48” side note I tried a digital level. I found that I could do just as good or better with a plain old bubble level. I also have a machinist level I borrowed from my cousin who is a tool and die maker.

Yard sticks (I bought about 20 on clearance) I used these to align ribs in the vertical stabilizer. Wish I would have known that trick working on my horizontal.

Layout Die (not an essential) I used it with a square to find center line on my control sticks prior to drilling. Used it extensively building my wings. It will give you a nice sharp contrast line and won't rub off like dry erase marker will. I have Dykem Layout Fluid.

Masking tape. Lots just go buy a 5 pack of blue for starts (Silver sharpie works great to write on this stuff with)

Clamps - a good variety. Spring clamps. C clamps, ect. I used c clamps and tie down straps to suspend my fuselage from the ceiling. I also store parts vertically in this manor, space is a premium as I am essentially working in a single car garage.

Scales 6”, 12”, yard sticks, tape measure. I like a see through ruler so I can see my project on the other side. Used to locate holes and such.

Center Punch - I have a manual spring one. You want to make sure your drill bit doesn't walk.

Scrap lumber to use as a backer when drilling sheet.

Respirator - something rated for organic solvents. Also works well to protect you from abundant dust from sanding.

Cable cutter (not essential, a dremel with cutting wheel will work. But a knioex cutter makes the job easy.

Dremel (must have)

Saw horses

Rolling stool

Lumber for rotisserie

Work platform to set fuselage on before gear is on.

Like I said this is definitely not a complete list.

Check out 7KiloFox on YouTube he has a video on this somewhere. He has pretty good YouTube content. When I started watching him I thought it sounded like him complaining a lot but every gripe he had was true on my plane as well and I learned to appreciate his content. There are several build video series.

Oh! Last and most important!!! Networking with the kitfox community. You can do that here or on team kitfox. The community is an awesome resource, they got me through some challenging parts of the build and were super helpful clarifying obscure directions in the manual.

Depending on who you get in touch with you will get answers like “I don't want to tell you how to build your airplane” or “I believe the instructions in the manual are clear on that” Well that's kinda the reason I bought a kit so I will have an expert to refer to or I think we'll if the directions are clear I wouldn't have this question. There is a 3rd standard answer but I can't think of it off hand. With that being said I have had much better luck with factory support lately they have been amazing.

Either way rather than email this will be a resource to the community.

If anyone else wants to supplement I welcome their advice.

Jason Murphy

11-01-2022, 11:31 PM

Contacted Brandon at the factory regarding the left lower aft spar reinforcement. This required reaming to get it to fit. I later learned how I had supported the wing while fitting gave it a slight twist which was discovered after I had reamed the part.

Brandon advised that although it is tight and not moving currently it may shift under load and recommend replacement. I will order additional reinforcement brackets and use my last remaining set to replace this set.

This was a challenging task as I had to use heat on the bottom reinforcement bracket to get the Hysol to release and not heat the top bracket.

I started by drilling the heads off the stainless steel rivets. Leaving the shank in place.

I attempted to use a clothing iron and direct contact to the steel reinforcement bracket. This resulted in heat from the fabric iron warming the aluminum spar through convection and radiation. This was aborted.

Next I tried using a soldering iron and placed the tip into the shank of the rivets. The soldering iron was supposed to produce 900 degrees. This never warmed the bracket.

Brandon suggested creating a heat shield. And using a heat gun. This was attempted out of aluminum foil and was produced marginal results as the spar being aluminum conducted heat quickly.

I then came up with the solution. Using a clamp on fan I aimed the fan at the top bracket and set it to high. I also had my son take an electric air pump you use for air mattress and blow air from the tip end to the root end. This maximized air exchange and air cooling. The heat gun was then aimed at the lower outer reinforcement bracket. It was warmed using the heat gun. The spar temperature and upper bracket was monitored using an infrared thermometer. They never became warmer than 100 degrees Fahrenheit. This technique was successful as I was able to use my Knipex Pliers and easily break the bond between the Hysol and outside bracket.

The stems of the rivets were drilled out with a No. 40 drill to ensure the holes were not opened up. A no. 34 drill was then used to drill out the center of the stainless steel rivet stems ensuring the sides of the ricet were not drilled through.

The old Hysol was cleaned off and the same technique was used to release the inner spar reinforcement bracket. Heat was applied to the lower spar which heated the Hysol on the opposite side of the wall of the tubing. Knipex pliers were used to pull the reinforcement bracket up and a popsicle stick was used as a wedge which released the bond between the Hysol and the spar tube. The Hysol remained bonded to the inner reinforcement bracket and there was very little cleanup.

Spar tube is prepped for bonding and cleaned with alcohol.

I plan to accomplish this task during the next build session.

Jason Murphy

11-01-2022, 11:37 PM

Weighed each propeller blade.

Weighed blades in order of serial number. Blade 1 weighed approximately 889 grams. Blade 2 weighed 887 grams. Blade 3 weighed a whopping 983 grams.

Contacted Joe who I purchased the prop from and asked if there was any reason there was nearly a 100 gram discrepancy. He advised he never weighed the blades he had the propeller dynamically balanced and that is the reason there was a bolt in the prop hub. Removed bolt and washers. It required a 9 gram weight to balance the prop.

Emailed Whirlwind and I am awaiting a response.

Jason Murphy

11-02-2022, 05:33 PM

Called Whirlwind regarding the prop. They advised they do not balance the blades by weights they balance using moment arm. I shouldn’t have any problems with the prop. Call if I have a vibration after the prop is mounted.

Polish radius blocks. They were much more of a challenge because they have such a small surface area. My coworker unknowingly supplied the photo for this entry.

Thanks Carrie

jrevens

11-02-2022, 11:27 PM

Called Whirlwind regarding the prop. They advised they do not balance the blades by weights they balance using moment arm. I shouldn’t have any problems with the prop. Call if I have a vibration after the prop is mounted.

Hi Jason,
I sure don’t want to give you any unnecessary concern, but I’m confused by Whirlwind’s reply. That seems to be a pretty considerable difference in weight, and I can’t understand how the blade set could possibly be in static balance based on moment arm unless there was a substantial variance in the density of the blade material throughout the length of the blades at corresponding distances, or a big variance in cross sectional shape (volume) between the blades at any particular station or distance from the hub. I wouldn’t think that would be the case. I’m just trying to understand… perhaps someone with a better understanding of this than I can penetrate my ignorance.

Shadowrider

11-03-2022, 07:57 AM

jrevens

11-03-2022, 10:08 AM

My guess is prop builders don’t want to tell customers that their props are out of balance. So many variables that effect prop balance that in my opinion it’s mandatory to balance your prop. Get your prop and spinner installed and then get a dynavibe and balance the prop. Your exhaust, and aircraft will thank you in a couple hundred hours.

I love my Whirlwind prop, but the point is that their reply to that kind of imbalance seems pretty bogus. I’ve dynamically balanced hundreds of props over about 40 years, and it’s always advisable to correct static imbalance first, IMO. I’ve personally known several prop builders. The ones I knew checked & corrected static balance, at least to a certain degree before the propeller left their shops. That amount of blade weight difference (over 3 ounces) may prevent a really good dynamic balance job. I wonder if the heavy blade was not an original in the set?

alexM

11-03-2022, 10:32 AM

I wonder if the heavy blade was not an original in the set?

I had the same question for Jason. The blades are serialized and WW was going to furnish him with the serial numbers for the blades sold to original owner.

PapuaPilot

11-03-2022, 02:24 PM

Blade weights can vary and don't mean a lot until they are assembled into the hub. I'm guessing the blades were assembled in the hub at some point at the factory and the unit was static balanced. Does the hub have any static weights installed on it? If not you could assemble the prop and check the static balance if you can find a mandrel and balance stand.

jrevens

11-03-2022, 11:34 PM

Blade weights can vary and don't mean a lot until they are assembled into the hub. I'm guessing the blades were assembled in the hub at some point at the factory and the unit was static balanced...

If that be the case, Phil, it would seem that Whirlwind would clearly inform the customer that it is very important to install specific blades in specific locations on the hub. I don't believe that they do that, as far as I know. They definitely didn't inform me of anything like that with my prop.

PapuaPilot

11-04-2022, 02:09 PM

I didn't know that John. Typically props come assembled and have been static balanced, sometime the blades are removed for shipping, but they have specific locations in the hub.

I'm curious to hear how this turns out and what the pre-balancing "IPS number" is. I kinda understand the "moment arm" statement, but a 3.5 ounce (~11%) weight difference between blades is a lot. The only way I can see this working is if they adjust the moment arm using weight as far inboard as possible.

Jason Murphy

11-04-2022, 09:36 PM

When I spoke with Whirlwind on the phone they said the blades can go on in any order.

I requested they email me and explain how this works so I am better able to understand. I will post a screenshot on here when they return the email.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Jason Murphy

11-05-2022, 11:04 PM

Installed No. 1 rib on Right Wing. Used yard sticks on the leading edge, trailing edge, top and bottom cap strips to ensure No. 1 rib is parallel to No. 3 rib. Allowed Hysol to cure for 1 hour after mixing and removed excess Hysol and dressed the fillets.

Sanded edge of wing tanks to ensure there is an even gap with the adjacent rib. Placed wing tank fully forward against the front spar. Used a square to mark equal distance from the adjacent rib. Sanded the minimum necessary to ensure the edge of the tank is straight and the gap between the rib and tank is even.

Placed masking tape on ribs and measured equal distances down the rib and made a line. Using a yardstick drawn a straight line on the front and rear of the tank. Will sand to the line to true the leading edge and trailing edge of the wing tanks.

I was advised that a minimum of 9/16” flange is required on the wing tanks and after I sand the edges I need to check for leaks.

I was also advised by Brandon at the factory that I need to leave at least 3/8” gap between the rib and the wing tank for rib stitching. I should also omit the step in the manual that instructs the builder to fill the gap between the wing tank and the rib with Hysol once again for rib stitching.

Rough cut the rear spar for the carry through spar when the wings are folded. This will require additional fitting in the future.

Took creepy selfie to identify myself as the builder in builders log.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20221106/a77895cdac3b64e97b09a1930f18e015.jpg
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20221106/8ee7533a4d62e5cf120f730d8c5855dd.jpg
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20221106/6bfc5e587686f27a039854c854cebacf.jpg
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20221106/c9d30348f5c2f6c3e67bb599405ab90b.jpg
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20221106/0d72442256576c9f850ddff23d0a39e1.jpg
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20221106/4f371ad511d425eeb391e70bf4dd6acf.jpg
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20221106/81a328cb75f695fe9c9a996434677585.jpg
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20221106/8968ab19b84ae3e8ab028b153baf6a1c.jpg
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20221106/73e6a89ca8db15c0128ef5bf75fbb998.jpg

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

jrevens

11-06-2022, 10:22 AM

…

Took creepy selfie to identify myself as the builder in builders log.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Didn’t look creepy to me Jason… good to include yourself in pictures of the build every once in awhile!
Keep up the good work!

Hardwood

11-07-2022, 08:51 AM

I would also suggest ordering a bag of micro balloons to use with the Superfil.

Hello Jason, I just checked my inventory and it looks like I have a 6 oz. Bag of microbaloons. Did you need more than that? If so I’ll augment it with another order, I’m guessing it is pretty fluffy stuff but I will have to go and check it out. I assume you add it in to the Superfil just like you do the Flox with the Hysol?

I don’t think any comments I have will help you out as you appear to be VERY detailed and methodical. I am learning from you, if I think I can offer anything to help out I will surely do so, however you are way ahead of me and I need to kick it into high gear. Fumbling with my rudder pedal setup at the moment.

Have a great day and keep up the good work. P.S. I also saw your list of tools posted and will read it over to see if I’m missing anything special.

Matt

jiott

11-07-2022, 02:02 PM

I have never added microballoons to SuperFill. It is already so light that it seems pointless for weight savings. Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe SuperFill already has microballoons as it comes in the can.
MB will help reduce sag, but SuperFill is not very runny, especially if you let it set for a bit.
Most of my MB that came in the kit were used in the Hysol as instructed in the build manual (for instance in mounting lift strut brackets).

Jason Murphy

11-07-2022, 02:16 PM

I bought a bag before I got my kit. I would say they probably give you just enough to get the job done if you don’t waste anything.

Either way really glad I have the extra micro and flocked cotton.

You are correct, I added the micro to the Superfil to make it a little thicker when I apply it heavy. I did not use it for weight savings.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Jason Murphy

11-07-2022, 08:15 PM

Hello Jason, I just checked my inventory and it looks like I have a 6 oz. Bag of microbaloons. Did you need more than that? If so I’ll augment it with another order, I’m guessing it is pretty fluffy stuff but I will have to go and check it out. I assume you add it in to the Superfil just like you do the Flox with the Hysol?

I don’t think any comments I have will help you out as you appear to be VERY detailed and methodical. I am learning from you, if I think I can offer anything to help out I will surely do so, however you are way ahead of me and I need to kick it into high gear. Fumbling with my rudder pedal setup at the moment.

Have a great day and keep up the good work. P.S. I also saw your list of tools posted and will read it over to see if I’m missing anything special.

Matt

Oh I will be happy to tell you every mistake I made. I have found that by the time you finish something up you you have figured out a better way than you had originally started.

Regarding the micro I used more than what they sent in the kit. You will probably find there is very little room for waste and you have been provided just enough to get the job done.

I will use the stiffener material for the ribs in the tail section. You should plan that carefully or you will run out.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Jason Murphy

11-07-2022, 10:17 PM

The No.1 rib on the right has been bonded in place.

Marked a uniform line on inboard edge of right wing tank sanded to create a uniform gap between No.1 rib and wing tank.

Marked leading and trailing edge of wing tank and sanded to square the leading and trailing edge.

The inboard edge of the leading edge is approximately 1/2” thick and the outboard edge of the leading edge is approximately 1/4”. Will be searching for a solution to create a uniform transition between the leading edge of the wing tank and the leading edge of the wing.

Made another visit to Harlan to check out his interior to make my final decisions for selecting the interior of my kit. I will be able to fit comfortably with a 2” bottom and a 1” back. A 2” back will cause crowding of my bits with full aft stick.

Discussed using a Banjo fitting for the fuel tank. There are a few threads on this website discussing their use and various modalities.

I received a few other suggestions while I was visiting.
1. Install a thermostat in-line with the coolant. Thermbob
2. Install a shut off valve between a wing tank to prevent cross feeding if you are parked on a surface that is not level.
3. Fuel pressure sensor will assist you in diagnosing an upstream problem (suction) vs downstream problem (fuel filter clogging)
4. Consider using a flush rivet on trailing edge. If edge margins allow.
5. Consider using a shorter rivet when installing flaperon brackets that will not protrude through underside of wing.
6. GDL51R will provide ADSB and will interface with G3X
7. The factory will relieve the rear spar approximately 1/2 to 3/4” from the No 1 rib. Approximately 1 1/2 total

Jason Murphy

11-21-2022, 10:29 PM

Installed the left front spar attach fitting.

Fit the front lug of the fuselage to the left wing.

Cut relief on aft of rear spar for folding wing. Used a paper template made from an index card and a bottle cap. The carry through spar is 1.5” in diameter. Used a bottle cap that was slightly larger. This is a rough cut and will likely require additional fitting in the future. The goal is to get the cutout close. I will perform additional fitting at the time I mount Jury Struts.

Prep and bond Left No. 1 rib using Hysol and Flox

Used a small amount of extra Hysol with flox and filled around the window trim to give the Velcro which the baggage sack mounts to a little more flat surface.

Sculpted Hysol and removed excess with popsicle stick. Using finger wetted with alcohol to create final fillets.

Provided additional relief on the right rear spar to accommodate wing folding. Additional relief will likely be required in the future. Rough cuts have been made. I will need to re prime the right side of the rear carry through spar as I sanded through in a few points.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20221122/40751a1444bc85984c9fe7c7d6aba484.jpg
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20221122/8602464fda2634c63d9b16b40b5365fc.jpg
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20221122/f0097d5d11dcab09c70d3de4c3ad91c0.jpg
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20221122/91a9de69328de6035f2b3b35defb2c02.jpg
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20221122/ad56e4da650edec42d7044da70cf41bf.jpg

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Jason Murphy

11-25-2022, 12:21 AM

Visited by my brother and sister in law. Showed progress since the last visit.

Developing plan for avionics. I believe I will order the hardware determine location where hardware will be installed and begin developing plans for wiring.

Sanded relief cut into No. 1 rib on each side for fuel lines per instructions. I will dry fit tanks to ensure adequate relief cuts have been made. Entertaining the idea of using a banjo fitting in the fuel tank connection to facilitate maintenance. There are banjo fittings available from Kitfox as well as other vendors. There is an interesting discussion on Team Kitfox regarding their use.

Visited by the family. The kids decided to play airplane. I believe I have made my decision regarding upholstery. I am leaning towards creating my own. Using a spray on bed liner in the cargo bay and on the seat pan. Use charcoal unisuede on the seats. Black unisuede on the glare shield. Then paint the console a dark grey. The controls I will sandblast paint with epoxy primer and finish coat them in black.

Squared up trailing edge of left wing tank.

Need to complete leak test and rinse inside of tanks with solvent.

Organize rivets into parts bin. Inventory washers and nuts plan on ordering extras.

Ordered for a transport kit to facilitate handling during the build process, storage, and to tow the aircraft to the airport. I should make a pad to protect the horizontal stabilizer and potentially the leading edge of the wing.

Still concerned regarding the right wing tank. The inboard leading edge is approximately twice the thickness of the outboard edge.

For a sanity check attempt to dry fit leading edge material. Dressed up shipping damage on the leading edge material. Using the leading edge template taped leading edge to the right wing. Will read additional instructions regarding installing the leading edge material. If I recall correctly the instructions direct you to create a smooth transition between the leading edge and the wing tank using super fil. I will follow up on this.

There is about a 1/2” gap between the seat pan and the frame. I wonder if I will be able to remedy this.311623116131163

Jason Murphy

11-28-2022, 10:09 PM

Completed squaring edges of wing tanks.

Used sandpaper and sanding block to smooth and round edges.

After all sanding is complete perform leak test to check the integrity of the tanks.

Performed first and second rinse using instructions attached to the wing tank.

Used the supplied hardware to plug the holes in the tank. Purchased 1' of vinyl tubing and kinked it on itself and taped it. Slipped the tubing onto the barbed fittings to act as a plug. Purchased a 3/8” NPT tubing plug for the remaining hole. Used fuel cap for the filling neck. Checked to ensure the acetone would not soften the rubber seal prior to rinsing. This worked very well and there was minimal spillage.

Jason Murphy

11-28-2022, 10:14 PM

Completed third rinse of fuel tanks per instructions.

Continue to organize parts into parts boxes. Have 1 box each for Rivets, Washers, and Nuts. Have an additional box for miscellaneous items.

Fit, Drill, Debur, Prep, Bond & Rivet Flaperon Reinforcement Brackets. Removed excess Hysol with mixing stick. Clean with alcohol.

Ream and debur flaperon attachment brackets.

Attempt to varnish tank side of ribs no 1 & 3. Mixed 15 mL varnish thinned to 50%. Was able to complete L1 Outboard, L3 Inboard, and R1 Outboard. R3 inboard still needs first coat.

Spoke with Brandon regarding tapping the wing tanks. He advised that there is a low probability the wing tanks will need any additional tapping. They have an index mark on their taps at the factory which they use to set the depth.

Asked clarification about the instructions. The manual states make the fittings snug. I stated what that says to me is they should be hand tight and I shouldn't use a wrench on them. Brandon advised it is acceptable to use a wrench on them. The seal should be between the tank and the fitting. The Permatex Sealant is a second measure not primary.

Shadowrider

11-29-2022, 07:20 AM

Things are looking good! Did Brandon tell you about the banjo fittings for fuel tanks? Both of our planes on the left tanks started to leak so we had to retro fit them. IMO banjo fittings are the way to go. Allows you to get the fitting tight and in the correct orientation.

Jason Murphy

11-29-2022, 07:26 AM

I actually learned about the Banjo fittings from a windshield overview of your build log.

I believe that is the route that I would like to follow. I haven’t decided which style I want to go with.

I discussed Banjo fittings with Brandon. The Kitfox fittings are about $100 dollars each.

There is an interesting thread on this forum that shows you how to make them.

Alex Munro also found some that uses AN fittings instead of barbed fittings. They are reasonable in price but I would need to use different hoses or fittings which would offset the cost savings on the fitting itself.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

alexM

11-29-2022, 10:36 AM

I only "found" them on one of the banjo fitting threads on this forum. I was mystified for a while as to why they were expensive and rare because my motorcycles are cars are infested with banjo fittings.

The reason is that a normal banjo fitting is a stack up of the bolt, the "banjo" and a couple of metal crush washers. They seal up because you torque the crap out of them into machined steel or aluminum. But you can't apply that kind of torque to NPT threads, and certainly not in a thin fiberglass tank wall.

For a banjo fitting to work in this application it has to be designed as a unit which crushes those sealing washers internally while still allowing it to pivot. Then you screw it into the (in our case) fuel tank with just the right amount of torque for the tapered threads to seal. Pretty limited application.

Jason Murphy

11-29-2022, 11:01 AM

Thanks Alex, that explanation narrows things down quite a bit.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Jason Murphy

11-29-2022, 11:34 PM

Ordered G3x, LRU Kit, and Install Kits from Stein Air.

Stein Air advised they would provide builder support, fabricate wiring harnesses, provide wiring diagrams after the sale. The cost for Stein Air to build a basic wiring harness for a G3x is approximately $1500. Add an autopilot $500. Add a Com Radio $500. GMU 11/22 $150. Labor $725. Prices have been rounded. If I simply wanted a diagram of how to assemble the wiring harness myself the cost would be $625 because I purchased the avionics from them. It would be double if I had purchased the avionics elsewhere. Wiring diagram is free if they assemble the harness.

I was advised by Kitfox in no uncertain terms they would be happy to sell me avionics but they will not assist me with support after the sale because they do not want to devalue their drop in kit.

Shadowrider

11-30-2022, 07:30 AM

desertdave

11-30-2022, 08:40 AM

Eric Page

11-30-2022, 05:15 PM

Shadowrider

11-30-2022, 05:58 PM

I think wiring the plane was what I enjoyed the most of the build. Up to that point nothing fit, so it was a nice break to do something that the plane didn't seem to want to fight you on.

Jason Murphy

11-30-2022, 09:36 PM

Stein is awesome! I would highly recommend purchasing from them. When I had questions on my install I called stein, even though I didn’t buy from them, and they where very helpful. I was calling to ask about putting in a resistor for rpm signal and they informed me they make a pcb board that is easier to wire in. I would buy from them and get the wiring diagram as it would save tons of time!

Yes, I would agree. The customer service I have received up to this point has been great. I plan on ordering the rest of my avionics kit through them as funds become available.

Another company I have been happy with has been Whirlwind. I bought a used prop and called them up looking for an instruction manual. The lady looked up the information sent me the instructions, data sheets, and an owner registration card.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Jason Murphy

11-30-2022, 09:49 PM

I'm finishing up a G3x install that was 100% purchased from Stein. I also had them build the harness which was the best money spent in my opinion. Eighty percent of the time Stein himself answers the phone and he has been super helpful. The other 20% of the time Tim 1 or Tim 2 answer and they too know their stuff. I wish every business was ran like Stein runs his.

Yes, I am very impressed with how their business is operated.

My first call that I had with them my situation and I was going to need to purchase the avionics in stages.

I said I would like to start with a basic system and just get things airworthy. Then want to add a Com Radio ASAP. Then add an autopilot. Then my dreams get really wild and add second screen, and in my wildest dreams an IFR navigator to be legal to climb through layers or to maintain IFR currency. They said no problem we can build up your harness in advance all you will need to do when your ready is to cut the hole in the panel and connect the device and configure the new device.

I talked with a few people and they were the first to act like it was no big deal to expand as you go.

I am in a bit of a rock and a hard place. Having them build everything up would be the easy button in this case. However I am at a place in my life where I must watch my discretionary spending. I know that doesn’t make a lot of sense because I am building an airplane,

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Jason Murphy

11-30-2022, 10:00 PM

Stein has a wonderful reputation, and I'm sure he provides an excellent service. However, if, like me, you cringe at spending >$2k on wiring harnesses and would rather invest the time, it's not really that hard. It's just a matter of connecting the pins on one box to the pins on another. All the connections are detailed in the installation manuals and the parts are readily available.

I posted a tutorial on making a harness cable for a Dynon SkyView system here (https://teamkitfox.com/Forums/threads/11670-Avionics-Wiring-Harness-A-Tutorial), and the Garmin cables will be very similar. Like the rest of the project, it's just a matter of buying some new and unfamiliar tools and learning some new and unfamiliar skills.

The hardest part is deciding what your time is worth. If you can pick up a shift or work overtime and make the cost of Stein-made harnesses in less time than you can build them yourself, then it makes sense to buy them. If not, or you just want to learn how it's done, then dig in.

Thank you for your contribution. At this time it does make me cringe to think about paying someone 2 to 3k to build a harness. The last few years have been very hard on my family especially my wife who injured her back and is still recovering leaving us as a single income family. I am trying to compare and contrast the cost of building my own to purchasing a completed harness.

We do have one thing going for us, she stays home with the kids and I am able to work an incredible amount of overtime to compensate for her being unable to work.

I also have a very unique job where the name of the game is to hurry up and wait. In my down time I have completed a bachelors & masters degree as well as complete my private, commercial, and (almost) instrument if we can ever get a Checkride date to come together we are on our 5th attempt.

What I am trying to say; I would be able to do a lot of the book work and planning. Then take that plan and bring it home to run the wire. I also have access to A&P mechanics through work and some of them do have an avionics background.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Jason Murphy

11-30-2022, 10:07 PM

I think wiring the plane was what I enjoyed the most of the build. Up to that point nothing fit, so it was a nice break to do something that the plane didn't seem to want to fight you on.

I may want to talk with you in detail on this.

I’m definitely not afraid of doing the work and if you have read back very far in the build thread I can be a little over the top on stressing about the details and meticulous.

Perhaps, I would have a similar experience. Would you recommend running the wire before covering so you would have nearly unrestricted access?

I will admit that the thought of having zero 12v DC wiring experience to working on an avionics suite is a little intimidating. Right now I am struggling with figuring out if I want to use traditional breakers or vertical power.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

alexM

12-01-2022, 07:40 PM

Vertical Power is cool (cool enough I wish I had come up with it), but it's big money. Since you've said money is an issue you may want to brush up on how to wire the plane yourself as many builders have done and are suggesting. I wanted to go with Klaxon breakers but after getting hold of Bob Nuckoll's book AeroElectric Connection I'm going with an automotive type fuse block (TLDR version: When was the last time your car blew a fuse?).

And I probably won't be popular for saying this but I don't understand the fascination with an autopilot on a simple VFR plane. I'm quite sure I'm a weirdo but I hand fly planes all day long for a living (63.4 hours in the last two weeks) and flying coast to coast with no autopilot is a normal thing. My current work plane has an autopilot and I use it but I don't find that it reduces my workload enough to justify it. You still have to continuously monitor position, heading and altitude or one of your cats will run off.

As for covering, having covered wings is no big deal assuming you've thought far enough ahead to know if you're going to use a heated pitot or not (I'm not. Again, simple VFR plane that has no business in freezing moisture). Wires for my magnetometer and the wing tips lights will travel through the rear spar like everyone else here does. My choice of wing tip lights eliminates wires to the tail. Right now my only wires to the tail are for stab trim motor and stab trim position (two different things). I really wanted to put the COM antenna in the vertical fin but in the name of simplicity my intent (as I type this, could change in an hour) is to put the COM antenna behind the turtle deck where the factory put it back in the Skystar days. Short wires, easy access, simple.

Right now in my head I'm going to push forward and cover at least one side of my fuselage and then get serious about wiring. I can flip the fuselage on its side or send my skinny son in to the bowels if needed.

Jerrytex

12-02-2022, 09:38 AM

Ditto on the fuse blocks. Cheap, easy to install, and the fuses are readily available. If something quits in flight, land and fix it. Circuit breakers are nice, but you're most likely going to have to land to troubleshoot if one trips anyway. The vertical power is really nice but crazy expensive and I am not sure I would want the distraction of troubleshooting and going through a bunch of menus on a screen while in the air. So essentially you're going to land anyway.

I actually installed 2 fuse blocks, and made one the essential bus (Bob Nuckoll's design) behind diodes that will run solely off the battery in case I have to turn off the master for any reason.

I too cringed at the costs of the panel and basic wire harnesses. Would be nice to have the cash to spend on it, but I didn't and had to find other ways. You can really save a ton of money on the panel if you do the work and wiring yourself. It really is not that hard, and there are tons of videos to educate. Also check around on the other sites for people upgrading. You can get some nice stuff for cheap because others want the latest and greatest. You'll have to be fast though because good stuff sells quickly. Also I found a lot of the expensive aviation grade connectors and aviation wire on Ebay for a fraction of the cost.

I did my complete panel, with Auto Pilot (sorry Alex, I know it's not necessary but it sure is nice nice when you have to let go of the stick for a minute, especially in winds in a Kitfox), for about $5500. Sill expensive in my opinion, but manageable.

31205

31206

bbs428

12-02-2022, 10:13 AM

After coughing up the $$ for the G3x system, the VPX just wasn't in the budget. Would have loved to have one tbh.
The automotive type of fuse is very reliable and budget friendly, it definitely has its place.
I wanted something more traditional and standard, so I went with the Klixon 2TC2 style c/b. Purchased 18 of these little gems from a/c Spruce. Ganged together by light weight brass strips.
31209

There are enough great electrical guys on the forum to walk you through and help if you decide to make your own harness. I would definitely 2nd getting Bob Nuckolls book "Aeroelectric Connection" to familiarize yourself.
This post by Eric Page is excellent on the subject. Avionics Wiring Harness: A Tutorial (teamkitfox.com) (https://teamkitfox.com/Forums/threads/11670-Avionics-Wiring-Harness-A-Tutorial?highlight=wiring+harness)
31208

You probably have more skills than you give yourself credit for. Just undertaking a kit Plane build is proof enough. Part of the fun (agony) is learning all the skills to bring your project to fruition.

Eric Page

12-02-2022, 10:48 AM

BTW, Bob Nuckolls has generously made his book available for free download, here (18Mb PDF) (http://www.aeroelectric.com/Books/Connection/R12%20Searchable%20Merged%20Chapters.pdf).

alexM

12-02-2022, 10:56 AM

(sorry Alex, I know it's not necessary but it sure is nice nice when you have to let go of the stick for a minute, especially in winds in a Kitfox)
Ha! I fully understand that I'm the outlier on the subject.

Jason Murphy

12-05-2022, 07:01 AM

Finished varnishing the No 1 & 3 ribs. Installing the tank in place would limit access to these areas after installing.

Installed bathroom exhaust fan in work area for ventilation since I am working in a confined area. Wondering how frequently the charcoal filters should be replaced on a 3M Respirator.

Prep spars, brush on epoxy primer beneath where the wing tank would cover.

Chase existing threads with tap. Dry fit fuel fittings, I had the goal of having 2 or 3 threads showing. Per Brandon when you apply the fuel sealant this will act as a lubricant allowing the fittings to thread in further. Using a fine tip sharpie I placed marks on the threads of the tap to help me keep track of how deep I have tapped the hole.

Leaving clearance between the No 3 rib and tank it is a pretty tight fit between the fuel fittings and the No 1 rib see photo.

I need to apply another coat of epoxy primer beneath the wing tank area. I purchased the pitot install kit from Kitfox. The mast is not pre drilled for the GAP 26 probe. I am wondering if I would be better off ordering the garmin Pitot Mast which is pre drilled.

Jason Murphy

12-05-2022, 07:08 AM

BTW, Bob Nuckolls has generously made his book available for free download, here (18Mb PDF) (http://www.aeroelectric.com/Books/Connection/R12%20Searchable%20Merged%20Chapters.pdf).

I have downloaded this book and will be reviewing it. Thank you for sharing and also thank you for the demonstration on building the connector.

Eric Page

12-05-2022, 12:12 PM

Wondering how frequently the charcoal filters should be replaced on a 3M Respirator.
It'll be obvious when you need a new filter. The odor of whatever you're working with will start to come through. In my experience (with Acetone) it's quite sudden.

jiott

12-06-2022, 11:09 AM

Its OK to notch that rib for fitting clearance-per the manual.

Shadowrider

12-11-2022, 09:12 PM

Jason the vpx is awesome. It’s worth the price in my option. Has so many features and safety. Cory had an issue with voltage regulator and got an over voltage so the vpx opened the field relay and protected the bus. Watch this video if your trying to decide.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BSR4HUnJNa4

Jason Murphy

12-11-2022, 10:46 PM

Painted second and third coat of primer on wing spars. The coat may be a little heavy but it will be in a location which will be difficult to inspect later so the additional protection may be of benefit. I used a paint brush to avoid overspray on adjacent surfaces.

Placed flaperon attachment brackets onto right wing. Plan to get the assistance of the family and dry fit the flaperons to the wings.

I am anticipating that I will have issues with the No. 9 rib on the right wing. I believe that it is 3/8” too far outboard and will need to be moved.

I do not anticipate any problems with the left wing.

Sanded the edges of the cargo bay floorboard and got rid of fuzzy material that the epoxy varnish had collected on. Plan to apply 1 additional coat to the edge of the floorboards and then use spray on Bedliner to provide a robust coating on the floorboards. I will then fit them to the tabs on the fuselage. If anyone has additional ideas about the best way to cover the floorboards I am open to suggestions.

jiott

12-12-2022, 02:27 PM

Jason, I covered my baggage floorboard with a lightweight fabric that somewhat matches my front floorboard carpeting. The fabric protects the baggage floor and helps a lot to keep things back there from sliding around. Use the same 3M spray adhesive you used to apply the fabric pieces to your seat pan.

Redline

12-13-2022, 09:16 AM

I rolled Herculiner on my baggage floor boards. Did one light coat with texture, then filtered out most of the chunks for the second coat. Grippy without being too rough and turned out nice.

31322

alexM

12-13-2022, 10:55 AM

bbs428

12-13-2022, 12:15 PM

Redline

12-13-2022, 12:17 PM

Hi Alex. You can view those anchor points here: https://www.uscargocontrol.com/products/2-round-anchor-point-tie-down-kit-black

There are large area washers underneath. The thinking is that they'll provide enough tension with a net or strap to keep items from moving around, but it's definitely not meant to be a structural tie down in the event of an accident.

3132331324

Jason Murphy

12-16-2022, 12:50 AM

I rolled Herculiner on my baggage floor boards. Did one light coat with texture, then filtered out most of the chunks for the second coat. Grippy without being too rough and turned out nice.

31322

That looks very nice, I also like the mounting points that you added. They are similar to some that I used at work in a medical configuration EC135 that I have flown in at work. They also had rails which used a similar quick attach ring. The rear seats were actually secured to them as well.

Thanks for posting the picture it puts into perspective what I had been visualizing with my plan of using Bedliner.

Jason Murphy

12-16-2022, 01:07 AM

If you have been following this thread you would have read where I suspect I may need to relocate a rib on my right wing. I have started the process to determine if this concern will be valid.

The flaperons were removed from their crate. I used my tie down straps that are secured to the floor joists with C Clamps to suspend them from the ceiling and protect them from falling.

I need to ream the existing holes in the flaperon hinges. I ordered a new 3/16 (0.187”) reamer my old one was not cutting to my satisfaction anymore. It will arrive tomorrow and I can continue work.

I plan to ream all the brackets and hinges connect them with the supplied hardware and check the fit of the flaperons to each wing to ensure all of the ribs have been properly bonded in place before I proceed any further. This will confirm or refute the theory my right wing will need minor correction on the outboard ribs. The left wing appears to be correct without any deviation from specifications.

Dressed the edges of the baggage sack floorboards. Will apply a third and final coat of varnish to protect the edges and make a final decision on how I would like to finish the floorboards.

After tomorrow when I get my reamer I will have a better idea of what my next steps will be.

I emailed seeking clarification about the best technique to install solid flush rivets in the trailing edge of the flaperon. I purchased a squeezer with this task in mind. It is my current plan that I will drill, debur, dimple, then squeeze the rivet. I emailed to make sure this process will not damage the flaperon with how the trailing edge has been bonded.

I also contacted a fellow builder and made arrangements to exchange the wingtips for the Hoerner style wingtips. Allegedly I will receive some additional aerodynamic benefits and I feel they are more pleasing to look at. This will bring about a new challenge of modifying these wingtips to accept position lights and landing lights. I have the position light adapters. I plan to use John McBeans plane as an example to complete this task.

Jason Murphy

01-13-2023, 10:38 PM

See https://eaabuilderslog.org/?s=KitfoxS7SS for more details entries

Tow Hitch Adapter and Brian Bush Door Handles

Follow up: The tow adapter was a SkyStar product. Shipping cost on the item was cost prohibitive and there is no longer tooling available to produce it.

1/10/23

Once again excellent service delivered by Heather and Brandon at Kitfox.

Received instructions for the fitting procedures for the Hoerner Style wingtip. These were specific to the Series 5 and 6 but applicable to the Series 7.

Received clarification of instructions and tips on fitting flaperons. After having several head scratching moments wondering how if the trailing edges of the wing only had 1/16” deviation why nothing was lining up.

During the cooling process the brackets would pull to one side or the other they just needed tweaking.

Flaperons were once again dry fit and using a set of Knipex pliers to create uniform pressure attachment points were tweaked and they fit perfectly into place.

Removed old hysol from right wing trailing edge with a flap wheel. When I bond the trailing edge material to the left wing I will use some of the excess hysol to build up the trailing edge of the right wing to replace some of the material that had been sanded down to achieve a distance from the spar of 11 3/8”

Reinstalled main landing gear.

1/8/23

Continue to cleanup around the shop.

Packed cabane spring gear to deliver to a potential buyer in Iowa.

Put tires and axels back onto the grove spring gear.

Searched for the inside break pad for about 3 hours while cleaning and organizing workspace. Had a head slapping moment when I realized that I put one caliper back together when I removed it and the missing part had been bolted into the caliper. I had the part in hand the whole time.

1/1/23

Put tail wheel back on.

Cleaned up the workspace made preparations to reinstall main landing gear. Gear have been brought to a high polish with Flitz.

Packed up the jigs for the next user.

Recheck sweep after installing the wing spar reinforcement bracket. Sweep has not changed.

Awaiting call from factory for clarification of instructions for flaperon trailing edge and fitting.

alexM

01-13-2023, 11:35 PM

I just went and looked at your tow hitch adapter pictures. It took me about 10 seconds to realize how it works. It also explains those cross tubes on my series 5 fuselage which have until now not had any reason to be there (other than to be annoying when you're covering the fuselage).

Do the current production planes even have those cross tubes? Curious about that. If they don't, that hitch adapter wouldn't have a way to attach to the plane.

Either way, "tooling no longer available" would not be an issue. Pretty much any local welder/fabricator in your area could make one if they had the fuselage in front of them and some idea of how long long that tongue has to be. Downside is that you'd be towing the plane on its main gear. I could just imagine the abuse a pair of air streaks would take on a single trip to the airport. May as well chuck $100 bills out the window as you drive.

Hoerner was an aerodynamics engineer for the Germans in WW II. Assuming they conform to his design they increase effective span without the increase in drag that would come from longer wings, and they cancel out wing tip vortices. Probably nothing dramatic but they are efficient. I actually didn't like the way they looked until I saw completed Kitoxes with them. They just look like they belong there.

Jason Murphy

01-13-2023, 11:48 PM

Hey Alex,

Yes, the Series 7 fuselages still have those cross tubes in the tail section fit the tow bar. I know a few tool and die makers who could probably help me out with that venture.

I won’t be using Airstreaks. I opted for the 8.50x6 aka poor man’s airstreak. I also have some 6.00x6 that were pulled off an old flying club plane that I am curious to find out the amount of airspeed I will be giving up for the larger tire I probably wouldn’t routinely use.

Yeah, I really like the look of the Hoerner style tips. I am fumbling around with how I will mount a set of landing lights. John McBean cut out the leading edge and used micro suns. Looking at the numbers I would like to have something that put out a little more light. At the price of AeroLED and WAT I am feeling an off-road truck light May be a good option to start with. Once again my plans for night flight would be occasional at best.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20230114/cd35aca36219cdcbc21f98890ca0bd84.jpg

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Jason Murphy

01-14-2023, 09:44 PM

Took a road trip between shifts met with a fellow builder. Received some feedback on current build steps.

Sold Cabane Spring Gear, will use the funds to obtain the remaining avionics items required for the project.

Exchanged the upgraded wing tips with landing light provision for Hoerner Style wing tips. Received guidance on methods to create a provision for landing lights in the Hoerner Tip and how to fit and finish the Hoerner tips and install nav / position light provision.

Needing to start coming up with ideas for a paint scheme because that step will be coming in the near future.

bbs428

01-15-2023, 07:30 AM

Agreed on how the Hoerner wingtips look. They take a lot of work, more if you want to add taxi/wing lights. I added some led lights and made a custom aluminum bracket to house them. My wingtip nav light standoffs are made from balsa as the fiberglass ones were a bit clumsy looking and heavy, imho.
I have quite a few build pics on my Hoerner tips to spur your creative juices, yours for the asking. I'll refrain from posting my pics on your build thread, lol.
Let us know the colors you're considering for your paint scheme! It's an enjoyable process to bring the vision of your thoughts to paper and then to the plane.

Keep up the great work!

Jason Murphy

01-19-2023, 10:36 PM

Yes, I would be interested in checking out what you did with your wingtips. I will delve into your build threads.

I struggle with creativity… I have thought about a paint scheme similar to an L5 with invasion stripes or one of the WWII warbirds. The checkerboard pattern on the tail is really appealing. On the other hand I have seen one that looked a lot like the factory STI except the body was white and the stripes were grey. I feel like that would match the polished landing gear the best or the WWII Warbird scheme

Jason Murphy

01-19-2023, 10:40 PM

Placed Hoerner style wing tips in a safe place.

Prepped trailing edge material with denatured alcohol and scotch brite.

Bonded trailing edge reinforcement material in place.

Cut a piece of left over stringer material to create a short piece of trailing edge reinforcement material for wing bay no 9.

Prepped and bonded reinforcement material in place.

Wondering if I were to fill the small gap at the trailing edge of the rib with SuperFil if that would provide better protection against moisture.

Bonded short piece of trailing edge material and the next adjacent piece of trailing edge material to ribs 10, 9, 8, and 7.

Cleaned up excess Hysol.

Jason Murphy

01-22-2023, 12:16 AM

Finished fitting and bonding trailing edge to left wing.

Clean up and relabel trailing edge pieces which were removed from right wing. Remove old Hysol. Clean with alcohol.

Installed trailing edge reinforcements.

Bonded to right wing. Used tongue depressors to extend the top of the cap strips to ensure the trailing edge material fit flush with capstrips.

Masking take worked well as a barrier to prevent clamps from being bonded to wing.

Jason Murphy

01-30-2023, 09:54 PM

Returning home from a week at work I return where I left off.

Still concerned about how the flaperons fit to the wing I took a better look at each wing and compared each using measurements taken from the wing and flaperon.

Measured the distance between ribs 3, 5, 7, and 9 on each wing.

Measured the distance between the centerline of each pre cut slot in the flaperons.

Compared the distances on each wing to find there is only 1/16” variation between the flaperon and the ribs.

Used a speed square to assess if the flaperon hinges are perpendicular to the surface of the flaperon. I found that none of the flaperon hinges were perpendicular.

Using a speed square I trued each hinge where it was perpendicular to the surface of the flaperon. When I dry fit the flaperon to the wing they were almost a perfect match. They required just a little loving and each hinge is centered with their corresponding slot in the flaperon and the brackets run parallel with the ribs.

Sent Brandon an email for clarification of the directions awaiting a response. How I read the instructions you need to use a carpenters square to extend a line down from an AN washer that is used to bolt the flaperon bracket to the flaperon hinge. The line should be 1/8 inch aft of the trailing edge material (see photo).

The other way I could interpret the photo in the manual is to allow 1/8” clearance of the flaperon bracket to the trailing edge (also see photo).

Regardless today was productive and the only deviation found between the two parts was 1/16” which is well within the general tolerance specified in the build manual.

I plan to place an order for parts tomorrow, I managed to crush a finger screen using a pair of Knipex pliers. Mental note only use a socket to wrench on those brass fittings.

Jason Murphy

01-31-2023, 10:34 PM

Removed fuel tanks from their respective wing bays.

Tapped left tank.

Applied Permatex 85420 to internal threads of tank and external threads of fuel fitting.

Installed one finger screen and all other fuel fittings in wing tank.

Need to order another finger screen, one was crushed with pliers as it was being inserted into tank for dry fitting.

I would like to have the finger screen about 2 or 3 threads deeper. I am seeking the advice of the kitfox community to see if there are other ways to get the finger screen in deeper without using excessive torque.

I have been advised by a builder that I should try a Skip Tooth Tap. My current tap will cut to a certain point and stop.

PapuaPilot

02-01-2023, 07:51 AM

If the finger screen threads are fully engaged you don't need it to go in any further. I think you are actually saying you want to increase the clearance of the elbow from the fuselage where the fuel hose will connect, right? The 2-3 turns you are suggesting will get you about 1/8" farther in; 3 turns of the 1/4" NPT would be 0.167" or just a bit over 5/32".

You have a few options:
- Use a tap in the tank that can remove more fiberglass
- Use a die on the elbow fitting and take a couple turns of brass off (if there is enough material remaining to do so)
- Use a tap on the inside or die on the outside of the reducer and remove a couple of turns of brass (if there is enough material to do so)

bumsteer

02-01-2023, 12:15 PM

If it is elbow clearance you're looking for, you could also look into using banjo fittings which have been discussed here before.

Rick

Jason Murphy

02-03-2023, 11:23 PM

I suppose that would be another way of saying what I am trying to accomplish.

I would like to make the finger screen & elbow as compact as possible. My thoughts with trying to get the finger screen to turn into the tank about 3 more threads would provide additional clearance from the No. 1 rib IF I should ever need to remove the elbow or finger screen at some point in time. I guess you could say I would like to build it with ongoing maintenance in mind.

At this time I cannot run my tap into the tank any deeper. It is acting like the fittings. It will reach a certain depth and won’t go any further. I have thought about trying to take a piece of sandpaper and trying to knock down the crests of the threads which might allow the tap to go deeper. Without knowing this would work
I am apprehensive to try it.

If the finger screen threads are fully engaged you don't need it to go in any further. I think you are actually saying you want to increase the clearance of the elbow from the fuselage where the fuel hose will connect, right? The 2-3 turns you are suggesting will get you about 1/8" farther in; 3 turns of the 1/4" NPT would be 0.167" or just a bit over 5/32".

You have a few options:
- Use a tap in the tank that can remove more fiberglass
- Use a die on the elbow fitting and take a couple turns of brass off (if there is enough material remaining to do so)
- Use a tap on the inside or die on the outside of the reducer and remove a couple of turns of brass (if there is enough material to do so)

Jason Murphy

02-03-2023, 11:27 PM

I have considered the Banjo fitting. I really like the idea. I know Kitfox sells a kit for about 100 dollars each. I also found a thread on this forum discussing their use and how to assemble them at a much more reasonable cost. Around 20 dollars if memory serves me right.

Alex M also found a fitting on eBay which goes from 1/4 NPT to an AN fitting.

If it is elbow clearance you're looking for, you could also look into using banjo fittings which have been discussed here before.

Rick

Jason Murphy

02-03-2023, 11:32 PM

Continuing to work on Jury Struts

Attempt to level the fuselage but unable to raise tail high enough. Removed 8.50x6 tires and placed a set of used 6.00x6 tires on. I was able to level the fuselage fore and aft using a step ladder and lumber. C Clamps and safety straps are put in place to prevent the tail from unintentionally falling.

Adjusted left and right by manipulating tire pressure.

Ran a piece of mason line along the jury struts. Found that the right front jury strut is drooping about 3/8” in the middle. When I discovered this I contacted Brandon at the factory and asked him to call. He advised this is a typical finding and the propose of the jury strut is to prevent it from sagging. If the front strut is manipulated and pulled up in alignment with the mason line all parts of the strut align properly. I have probably spent a total of 12 hours trying to fit this jury strut and that was all it took to solve the problem.

I was successfully able to get both jury struts dry fit in short order.

The left front jury strut is bowed approximately 1/8 to 1/4” up. It was easily manipulated and a close approximation to its final location was found.

I will wait for a warmer day to move the project outside where I can stand back severel feet to ensure there is no twist prior to drilling, bonding, and riveting the Jury Strut Brackets.

Brandon also advised I should try to keep the brackets as long as possible because if they are trimmed too much the hardware used to attach the strut will interfere with the fabric.

Ordered another finger strainer to replace the one I had crushed with pliers.

Began fitting the aluminum doubler to the wingtip. I plan on seeking clarification of the instructions. The manual says that I need to wait intil the aircraft has been covered and painted before I Hysol and river the doubler in place. I would think this would result in interference with bonding because there is a layer of fabric between the No. 10 rib capstrip and the doubler. Poly fiber states in no uncertain terms that their adhesive works for shear but not peel.

jrevens

02-03-2023, 11:56 PM

I ... I have thought about trying to take a piece of sandpaper and trying to knock down the crests of the threads which might allow the tap to go deeper. Without knowing this would work
I am apprehensive to try it.

Definitely don't do that!

alexM

02-04-2023, 06:58 AM

I'm with John. Absolutely do not do that. The whole point of tapered threads is to make fluid tight connections and all you'd be doing is defeating that.

Brandon also advised I should try to keep the brackets as long as possible because if they are trimmed too much the hardware used to attach the strut will interfere with the fabric.
That's what happened to me, at least with my front attach points. I've figured out a way forward but if I had to do it over again I would have moved the jury struts inboard compared to the dimension in the manual, just enough to get the job done.

Began fitting the aluminum doubler to the wingtip. I plan on seeking clarification of the instructions. The manual says that I need to wait until the aircraft has been covered and painted before I Hysol and river the doubler in place.
I struggled with this too, and found build threads where people did things differently. In the end I did the fit up and drilling of the strips then set them aside. I covered the wings and wrapped the covering material 1/4 to 3/8" over that #10 cap strip. That still left some varnished wood plus the rivets to hold those strips solidly.

Jason Murphy

02-05-2023, 11:30 PM

Installed aluminum strips on left wing tip.

Used dremel to remove excess Hysol from wing rib. This increased edge margins on the piece of aluminum strip.

Cut strips to length. Was able to use a full length piece on the top. This may need to be cut down for the required rivet for the wings trailing edge. The other option would be to install the rivet on the inboard side of rib 10.

Trace the edge of a AN10 washer to layout a radius for the corners of the cap strip. Use file to radius corners.

Laid out 2” rivet pattern. Centered 2” pattern around rear spar tube to ensure a rivet will not be placed over the top of the spar tube.

There is 3/8” between the shear web of the rib and the outboard edge of the cap strip. Measured 3/16” from the outboard edge of the cap strip.

Using a drill jig to ensure holes that are perpendicular to the rib cap strip drilled 1/8” rivet holes in cap strip.

Sanded inside edge of cap strip to clean up and splinters and burrs. Used side clamp clecos to clamp aluminum strip to cap strip. Match drilled using drill jig.

Drilled final hole size with No. 30 bit.

Countersink wood cap strip with micro stop cutter.

Removed aluminum strip, debur edges and drill holes.

Cleco aluminum strips in place.

Repeat process on right wing. Stopped after cutting aluminum strips to length and placing a radius on the corners.

Looking at how all the parts come together I may need to trim some more off the trailing edge of the aluminum strips to accommodate for the adhesive used to hold the trailing edge of the wingtip together.

Jason Murphy

02-07-2023, 07:52 PM

Completed work on the right wing tip.

Laid out 2” rivet pattern 3/16” from outboard edge of rib No 10.

Drilled pattern using jig to ensure hole is perpendicular to capstrip. Sand holes to debur. Match drill aluminum strip. Debur aluminum strip. Countersink capstrip. Cleco aluminum strip into place.

Check mason line on lift struts.

Develop plans for rotisserie. I saw where one builder used an engine stand and a sawhorse with a PVC Y on one end for a wing stand. I still have my jigs which I made for the wing. I could modify these jigs to work in sa similar fashion.

Review instructions and sign off completed steps.

Jason Murphy

02-12-2023, 12:30 AM

Borrowed different tap from a fellow builder. Had the privilege of flying with them in their Kitfox STI for about an hour. It was a very pleasant day and a great experience. Big thank you for the kindness.

This tap I had borrowed worked much better than my previous tap.

I would tap and fit the fitting and advance the fitting by approx 1/2 turn each time. Dry fit and tapped another half turn until I was satisfied with the position of the finger screen.

Inspected the fuel quantity fittings and vent fitting. I found the orifice was partially or fully occluded. Removed all fittings for further inspection and cleaning. determined this was caused by using too much sealant on the internal threads of the fitting.

I placed sealant on only the first 3 or 4 internal threads and all of the external threads with sealant. Did not encounter this issue again. When placed the fittings back into the tank. Cleaned excess sealant from the fitting which had been wiped off when the fitting had been threaded into the tank.

Finished cementing PVC fixture for wing rotisserie. Offset the PVC Tee to the center of the chord of the wing with the goal of the wing rotating on the center of the chord.

Took 2” PVC pipe and used a dremel to cut 4 1/8” slits lengthwise in the pipe. Will easily slide inside of the tip end of the wing spar. These will be placed through a 2x4 and secured to the engine stand. This will allow me to rotate the wing and secure it in place with a pin on the engine stand.

jrevens

02-12-2023, 01:08 AM

Jason - the correct procedure with tapered pipe threads is to apply thread sealing compound to the male threads only.

Jason Murphy

02-15-2023, 10:11 PM

Prepared airplane to be moved with wings in place.

Fit transport kit to the airplane.

The rear lock back braces do not quite fit currently. Temporary secured them with a zip tie as I am only moving around my house.

I had to use a grinder on the front braces to prevent them from riding on the rivets. I will likely need to tack weld this in the future and powder coat the parts again.

After fitting transport kit moved airplane to bank parking lot next to my house.

The aircraft is leveled in pitch and roll.

Using a plumb bob index lines are made using the bolt of the Tailwheel and the center bolt of the engine mount. This is extended about 15 ft in front of the airplane. The approximate distance is measured to the approximate jury strut location.

A piece of tape is placed on the parking lot to ensure that I am looking at the struts from the same location each time.

The struts are located, adjusted to ensure there is no twist. Secured with clamps. Rechecked before drilling holes. The strut brackets are compared to the outboard wing and verified there is no obvious twisting. Lift struts are manipulated to ensure they are straight with a mason line which had been stretched on the front and aft lift struts.

They are drilled and cleco jury strut brackets.

As I was folding the wings I needed to do the final fitting for the cutout on the rear of each spar. As you have seen in my build log the space which I am workin in is tight to say the least. I had to fold and shuffle benches. Then fold and move the plane a few inches and shuffle equipment. This task took the majority of the afternoon. I will need to dress up the rough cuts in the rear of the spar. The carry through spar has been cleared by approximately 1/8”.

Folded the wings and moved airplane back into basement.

I need to bond the wing tank in place. I want to speak with Brandon to check and see if any additional things need done before removing the wing to finish up wing assembly tasks prior to covering.

I would like to complete as many build tasks as possible with the wing in its position of function.

alexM

02-16-2023, 10:43 AM

Jason Murphy

02-16-2023, 11:01 PM

I suppose you could set your butt ribs on the upper cabin structure, but you can (should?) do that later.

You should at least test fit them. You'll almost certainly need to trim the rear two fittings to eliminate interference, but don't do the final attachment until the wings are covered.

… I hate to admit it… I need to find my butt rib brackets somewhere in the alley going around my house. I noticed that I managed to lose 3 of them on the trip around the house. I tried looking that night but was unsuccessful… I will look into eat fitting them. I was advised when I get around to fitting them they should be slightly proud of the wing to allow the wing to swing beneath it.

Jason Murphy

02-16-2023, 11:11 PM

Installed solid rivets in trailing edge of flaperon per optional instructions in the manual.

Due to the footprint of the dimpling die and attempting to dimple a curved surface the dimple die left “smiley” marks on the surface of the flaperon.

The dimple die was chucked into a drill and turned down with a file to reduce the footprint. This helped mitigate the distortion to the metal.

In hindsight I wish I would have used either the standard rivet or a universal head rivet which did not require the surface be dimpled.

Drilled weep holes in the trailing edge of the flaperon. Located the holes by measuring the center of the hinge cutouts from the top and transferred these measurements to the bottom side.

Drilled the 11 no 40 holes in the flaperon balance weights. The center aft hole had been drilled by the factory already. It was slightly off center. Rather than attempt to repair or fix it i simply accepted it for what it was.

bbs428

02-17-2023, 02:59 AM

Jason Murphy

02-17-2023, 01:16 PM

A mix of premium auto body filler will make those smiley faces, dimples and other annoying imperfections disappear Jason!

Just scuff the surface lightly with some scotch bright to give the filler some "tooth" to hold onto and clean before applying.
I used "Evercoat" but any of them will work just fine. Be aware of the color you're painting the as some can be translucent so even the lighter color body filler will show through as a shadow. You need to seal those flaperons no matter what topcoat you use. I find a white, two-part epoxy primer works the best for reds, yellows and whites. Grey can be used with the other darker colors.

Trying to find missing parts/hardware will suck the life out of you - I know all about that!

Onward and upward!

Thank You for the encouragement! I was pretty bummed with the first few. I should have seen it coming, the bad part is I even thought about it before hand. After the 3rd or 4th time turning down the dimple bits they were looking pretty good on both sides of the flaperon. That is an area which will definitely require touchup. Right now I am thinking my base coat will be white or silver. I have been looking at paint schemes that have been used in the past. I am definitely wanting to pick a scheme which matches my ability to paint (no prior experience, much like everything else in this project).

I am telling myself that I need to make up some test frames to spray a few coats of paint with before I cut loose on my airframe.

Jason Murphy

02-19-2023, 12:44 AM

I feel as if I have been getting a good amount of progress made. My boxes of parts are beginning to dwindle.

Finished installing flaperon balance weights. I needed to tweak the strap on the balance weights so it would better conform to the shape of the flaperon.

All prep work has been completed flaperon has been scuffed with scotch brite. Holding the weights on with clecos for now until I am ready to permanently install them.

Began fitting the pitot mast. It appears the mast has been welded into the base crooked. The CNC cut base should be correct. I will determine a method to ensure the pitot will be correctly aligned. I plan on attempting to fit this mast to the pitot tube. If I am unsuccessful I will order the Garmin mast which has been pre drilled to fit the Garmin Pitot Tube.

Borrowed a scroll saw from Stephen J to make flaperon tips and flaperon clamp.

Shaped a flaperon tip from balsa. Used scroll saw to remove large amounts of material. Used trial and error to fit flaperon tip. I will need to use filler on the underside.

Visited with Paul H. used his table saw to rip 2x4s to make 2x2s Created extra material to ensure I have sufficient quantity of material to make flaperon clamp.

I am guessing that I will need to source some material for the fuel placard. The manual indicates that material should have been supplied in the placard kit however the inventory sheet from the placard kit only indicates a template was included.

Seeking clarification on the placard kit and pitot tube.

Jason Murphy

02-20-2023, 11:59 PM

Not much time to work on things today. Running errands with the family. When I returned I was able to make a flaperon tip from a block of Balsa for the left flaperon.

I am taking a page from BBS428’s playbook and I would like to give them a similar profile to the Hoerner wing tip.

I am a little concerned about the trailing edge as I don’t have much material back there and I just don’t know how durable the flaperon tip will be. I could get a little exotic and wrap the tip with fiberglass to strengthen everything up. However I have zero experience with composites and this is probably a pretty technically difficult part with its numerous curves.

I received my second shipment of avionics from Stein Air today. They have been great to work with up to this point. I test fit my Garmin Pitot tube and found there were dents in the pitot tube mast. I swear I don’t know what Kitfox does with their parts. 2 of the 8 spar tubes I have had dents in them and now this. My tail access panels and kick panels had wrinkles in them. I plan on picking up some sheet aluminum and remaking the kick panels.

I also received a response about the mystery missing aluminum sheet for the fuel placard with the same part number as the fuel placard. “The aluminum sheet is either in the wing kit or the tank kit..... Not in the placard kit.” I have kept all my aluminum together and it’s definitely not there so I will just plan on making them from the leftover. This wouldn’t have shown up on inventory because the template has the same part number.

Jason Murphy

02-22-2023, 10:10 PM

Continued to refine the flaperon tips

Used a wood rasp and sandpaper to further shape the balsa blocks.

I am concerned about the lack of material on the trailing edge. I consulted with another builder TJ and he suggested to reinforce the balsa with a layer of fiberglass.

bbs428

02-23-2023, 08:29 AM

Jason Murphy

03-18-2023, 11:05 PM

Combining multiple entries, I have been task saturated and a poor historian lately.

On a side note I passed the FAA Fundamentals of Instruction exam and I am now studying for the Flight Instructor Airplane exam. Accomplishing professional goals and balancing work on this project has been a challenge.

Back to the business at hand.

Wing Tanks - Ordered Banjo fitting kits from Kitfox for future serviceability, Fitted tanks with banjo fittings. Leak tested each tank for 3 days full of water. No leaks observed. Dried the inside of the tank with low pressure from my air compressor and the Tyson tubing. I cracked the regulator open just enough to get a gentle breeze which could be felt on the cheek. Tanks are now ready to install. I have some minor prep work which needs accomplished prior to installation. I will recheck washout and dihedral prior to installation.

Sand relief in no 1 rib to provide room to service banjo fitting. Reviewing the manual I found that I did not provide enough relief for the fuel lines in the rear of the No 1 rib. Additional sanding performed.

Flaperons - Lots of work completed today. The last two to three weeks has been prep work and dry assembly. Bonded and riveted end ribs. Per manual control horns remain temporary fastened with clecos. Locate flaperons on wings and match drill to wing ribs. Cleco in place per manual.
Bond and rivet balance weights to flaperon.

Drive to Wicks Aircraft picked up plywood for pitot mount and mounting location for magnetometer. Also picked up mahogany ply with the intention of replacing the light wood floor boards with mahogany.

While at Wicks I discussed break lines. I was advised that on the brake lines which are exposed on the gear legs I should use braided line as it will be much more robust than the plastic line. I was also advised the plastic lines will be satisfactory inside where chafing is not a concern.

I didn't like how the control cables were unraveling when they were crimped. Attempted to re swage the control cables without success until I changed technique. I swaged the distal section first and worked back. This prevented the cable from unraveling. Discussing this problem at Wicks I was advised that is the best way to swage cable to prevent that problem. I will need to replace the cable because I ended up trying too many times to get a good swage and came up short. I suppose this is part of the learning curve.

After completing the flaperon clamping fixture the flaperon control horns were match drilled IAW the builders manual.

To prevent the horns from settling while being drilled they were supported with a small block of wood with tape wrapped around it.

All parts cleco and dry fit together.

Need to apply touch up primer to the end ribs prior to bonding and riveting in place. Per the instruction manual final riveting is delayed until paint has been applied

After several failures attempting to make the flaperon clamping fixture I finally came up with a good way to make one

First I tried using 2x4 lumber that was trued with a jointer and ripped with a table saw to size.

After 24 hours these materials began to twist and bow.

I made extra and took the straightest and attempted to make a fixture however I did a poor job of cutting the wing profile. So these were scrapped.

Next I obtained a few pieces of 1.5 x 1.5 square dowel.

I cut them to length per the manual. Taped them together to form a block per the manual. I used a 1/8” bit to drill the pilot hole and mate the 2 blocks together. I needed a pilot hole that was not too big for my Forstner bit to counterbore the bolt holes. I used my 12” No. 40 bit to complete drilling through the blocks.

Using a 7/8 Forstner bit I provided a recess for the bolt head and nut.

To make the profile of the wing I used the flaperon end rib for the basic shape. I centered the end rib between the two blocks and traced an outline of the flaperon spar.

I used a 1 inch paddle bit to make a hole for the spar hole.

I then flipped the end rib over and verified it was still centered. I traced the basic profile of the flaperon and cut it out using a scroll saw. Borrowing a spindle sander I sanded up to the lines and began the process of trial and error fitting of the flaperon to the clamping fixture.

It took several attempts but I don't believe I could get much better fit. Perhaps I could use Superfil to fill all the small gaps and provide a molded fit.

Jason Murphy

03-18-2023, 11:06 PM

Addendum to previous post, limit of 20 attachments per post.

I am entertaining the idea of replacing the pulled monel rivets with some -3AD universal head rivets to continue the theme of solid rivets in the trailing edge. Before I do that I need to determine if I will be sacrifice strength for aesthetics which is never an acceptable compromise by my standards.

I have the problem that I am running out of clecos. I started with 100 and between the wingtip attachment strips and the flaperons they are nearly all being used.

Jason Murphy

03-18-2023, 11:12 PM

Jason, fwiw, my tips curve into the flaperon avoiding the sharp tip as you have found out is very weak. One "bump" could ruin your day. Fiberglass reinforcing would help but imo, they would still be vulnerable.
I'll post some pics on my build thread for you.

Your flaperon tips are awesome btw - mui bueno!

Thank you for the compliment!

Yes, I believe that I am going to have the trailing edge taper inboard to mitigate the possibility of damage in the future. I need to come up with a way to blend the tip with the flaperon itself and create a seamless transition between the two parts.

jiott

03-19-2023, 02:16 PM

It seems to be very common on these forums to see people spend much time and effort, even struggle, to make the flaperon clamp blocks to accuracies and profile fit that are show quality. That's fine if that is what you enjoy doing, but it is simply not necessary. The ONLY purpose of those clamp blocks are to hold the flaperon chord line (a line drawn from the center of the leading edge to the trailing edge point) parallel to the bottom surface of the block, for use in rigging the flaperon to the wing. That clamp block could be as simple as a curve to fit the leading edge and a narrow vee to fit the trailing edge, with just a crude profile to clear the rest of the flaperon surface. When you tighten up the bolts you just want it to hold firm without crushing the aluminum. I do admire the workmanship that some folks put into these single use blocks, but my purpose here is to maybe save some of you a lot of time and effort so you can move on to the really important things. My 2 cents.

efwd

03-19-2023, 03:42 PM

A few years late for me Jim but I could have certainly used that information for sure. Rigging the plane was one of the primary concerns that I had and feared the most if it was not correct. I recall my post on the subject to this day. You may have been part of that as well. Thanks for the posts.

jrevens

03-19-2023, 06:33 PM

I agree with you Jim. I also used them for locating/installing the control horns (arms) at the proper angles in relation to the flaperons.

Jason Murphy

03-19-2023, 11:10 PM

I thought that was their purpose in life was to get the control horns right then to aid in the final rigging later. I really didn’t spend an incredible amount of time on mine once I got it figured out I could flip the end rib over and use that. Then it came down to borrowing the necessary tools.

I connected my flaperons tonight and have a whole lot more movement with the left one than the right but I’m sure that’s simply a rigging issue.

Jason Murphy

03-19-2023, 11:18 PM

Connected the flaperon controls. Had the kids come down and make them wiggle.

Additional trimming on seat pan.

Had my kids sit in the seat pan and marked the underside of the leading edge. Took a straight edge and made a line on the left and right sides. I was required to do them separately because there is a bow in the seat pla that is removed by weight.

Also marked the edges. I have been told that I need to trim the seat pan below the edge of the door to prevent you from catching on it as you get in and out of the airplane. I aimed for approximately 1/4”.

I have also noticed a slight inward bow on the sides that I would like to resolve. I will seek advice from the community and factory.

Jason Murphy

03-19-2023, 11:32 PM

It seems to be very common on these forums to see people spend much time and effort, even struggle, to make the flaperon clamp blocks to accuracies and profile fit that are show quality...

That would have been some valuable insight about a month ago or so. A “V” cut at a 45 degree angle and something to pinch the trailing edge would have been perfect and something easy to create.

It took me longer to borrow the right tools and come up with the right materials than it took me to make the block. I started by ripping some old 2x4 that I had. When I came back to them 2 days later after I got off work they were terribly warped and bowed. I know I stress on the details but it makes me feel better about life at the end of the day.

Jason Murphy

03-19-2023, 11:38 PM

Wing rigging was quite the ordeal, despite having repeated measurements and using an amazing jig that I had borrowed i fretted over dorking up those holes.

I connected my flaperons today just to see a control surface move for the first time. It was pretty satisfying. My left flaperon had much more movement than the right. I’m sure this was simply a matter of getting things adjusted right.

jiott

03-20-2023, 11:25 AM

We all hope our posts may help someone now or down the line. I just like to play it forward because I remember my appreciation for advice I got during and even before my build. Right after I ordered my kit I started becoming a regular reader of this forum, and by the time the kit arrived I had tucked away a huge amount of essential tips, thanks to those who went before me.

Jason Murphy

03-20-2023, 09:29 PM

Did some more final fitting on the seat pan, smooth and round corners. Cut the left side below the edge of the door frame.

Received some feedback regarding the bowing of the fiberglass. The feedback I am receiving is you can use heat to warm the seat pan and mitigate some of the bowing. Other feedback I have received is it won’t be noticed after the upholstery is in. The gap is about 3/8 to 1/2” in the middle. I would like to mitigate it if possible.

Update from previous post. Used a low profile Velcro squares to hold the tool box covers in place. I have had good luck so far and I am pretty happy not needing to drill holes in the seat pan and cover.

Also discussed upholstery with another owner. They recommended seat foam from Oregon Aero. I will reach out to them and receive a quote. Otherwise Pinterest is looking mighty appealing in comparison to the factory upholstery kit.

alexM

03-20-2023, 09:38 PM

That would take quite a bit of heat to move the contour of the fiberglass seat pan. I don't think I'd go that route.

Make sure you're sitting down when you read the quote from Oregon Aero. It will make the Kitfox quote very appealing. And honestly the workmanship on the factory seat cushions is fantastic.

Jason Murphy

03-21-2023, 06:40 AM

Last year when I talked with them they wanted $5300 for a finished set of seats. I hit the floor. The foam was 330 per seat which I could deal with and come up with a basic covering.

bbs428

03-23-2023, 09:03 PM

I was really happy with the upholstery from the kitfox mothership.
Heather was great to work with. She called me several times doublechecking on all the details.

Jason Murphy

03-24-2023, 12:28 AM

I was really happy with the upholstery from the kitfox mothership.
Heather was great to work with. She called me several times doublechecking on all the details.

Both Heather and Brandon are great to work with. The two turned my experience around with the support side of the world.

I ordered a set of seat cushion cores from Oregon Aero today they were not too painful. They have a 100% satisfaction guarantee and appear to be a little more ergonomic than the factory cushions.

When I get them I plan on having a side by side comparison and making my final decision at that point. Worst case scenario I will be out shipping. I have been watching some videos on how to do upholstery so I think I will give it a try. That will give me freedom in an area I can be confident won’t cause me to fall out of the sky.

Jason Murphy

04-30-2023, 08:20 PM

This is a catch-up of the work that has been accomplished this month. Photos may be viewed at my EAA Builders Log page as there are too many to post on a single thread.

https://eaabuilderslog.org/?s=KitfoxS7SS

This entry includes about 3 weeks of work.

I was having trouble getting my flaperons to mount correctly. I had convinced myself that the No 1 rib had been installed improperly and was out of alignment with the remaining ribs.

The No 1 rib was removed by cutting through the web and a chisel was used with a generous safety margin to remove the wood and hysol from around the spar. A flap wheel and dremel was used to remove additional material and once close to the spar sandpaper and scotch brite was used to clean up the remaining hysol and prevent damage to the spar. This technique was used rather than heat to ensure the bonding between the spar reinforcement bracket and the spar was not compromised.

Replacement ribs were ordered and fitted. Initially sandpaper was used to try and lap the rib to the contour of the spar and lower the trailing edge where the flaperon fit neutral.

Several emails and phone calls with kitfox were made to try and determine the issue. Discussion was held with Alex M. After speaking with Brandon he said to try and use a piece of angle aluminum to project a line from rib 3 through 5 to rib 1. What I finally determined I fitted the flaperon incorrectly.

The rib reinforcement brackets were removed and hysol beneath removed with a dremel. New reinforcement brackets were ordered.

Today the No 1 rib was bonded to the spars. I used 4 yard sticks to position the rib. Alignment with its neighboring ribs was checked using a mason line. I plan to bond rib No 1 on the left wing tomorrow.

I also dressed up the new rib reinforcement brackets today and prepped their bonding locations on the right wing. While dressing the brackets I noted cracks in 2 of them. I have contacted Kitfox for replacements.

While examining the trailing edge it was noted the trailing edge reinforcement between rib 7 and 8 were not flush. Using a straight edge along the bottom it was discovered there was a slight bow preventing the reinforcement from fully seating in the trailing edge strips. An email was sent to kitfox to determine the best way to fix this issue.

Received seat cores from Oregon Aero. They are the standard cut. They are quite comfortable and contour the body where the standard Kitfox seat cushions are a simple flat piece of foam.

I will need to make seat covers in the future. I will continue to gather ideas for upholstery ideas.

Jason Murphy

05-01-2023, 08:26 PM

Located and bond No 1 rib on left wing. Checked alignment with mason line prior to bonding to ensure alignment with neighboring ribs.

Finished prep work on the reinforcement brackets for the right wing. Located and drilled holes in the left brackets then positioned and match drilled the right brackets. Disassemble, debur, and prep brackets for bonding. Bond and rivet brackets to run 1, 3, 5, and 7 on the right wing. Clean up excess Hysol.

Prepped the auto pilot mounts with a hitch brite and wiped with alcohol. Drilled and debur holes for transponder plate. There are no rivets specified in the directions to use. I requested Kitfox send additional rivets with replacement brackets.

I also requested an additional 2 pieces of trailing edge because there is a bow in the lower edge which prevents the trailing edge reinforcements from sitting down inside the material.

I need to touch up the epoxy primer on the spar and varnish rib no 1 prior to installing the wing tanks.

Jason Murphy

05-02-2023, 10:55 PM

Removed old reinforcement brackets from Ribs L3, L5, & L7. Scraped away old Hysol.

Removed clecos and yard sticks which had clamped the L1 rib in place. Using mason line verified alignment with adjacent ribs.

Need to provide relief for fuel line, sand and varnish rib prior to installing wing rank and touch up primer on wing spar.

Removed Left Trailing Edge piece which also had a bow on the lower edge which prevented the trailing edge reinforcement from seating fully inside. Scraped old Hysol off reinforcement piece for reuse.

2 replacement rib reinforcement brackets are pending shipping from kitfox to replace the ones that had cracked from manufacturing. 2 replacement pieces of trailing edge are also on order to replace the two sections that do now allow the reinforcement to fully seat.

I plan to work on the project tomorrow morning and during the evening. I will be teaching nursing students tomorrow afternoon emergency resuscitation. With any luck I will be able to get all the prep work done and can move onto bonding the wing tanks.

Now that the No 1 ribs are back in place I plan on checking the alignment of the flaperons. With any luck revisiting and revising the previous work will ensure better alignment.

Jason Murphy

05-03-2023, 10:30 PM

Dremel old Hysol from left wing. Clean up the trailing edge areas. Ready to bond rib reinforcement and replacement trailing edge when it arrives.

jrevens

05-03-2023, 11:16 PM

Seeing you with your daughter makes me smile, Jason... reminds me of my kids when I was building my first plane (they're both in their mid 40's now!). Keep up the good work.

Jason Murphy

05-15-2023, 10:23 PM

Replaced 2 sections of trailing edge because trailing edge reinforcements would not sit below flush.

This required a substantial amount of fitting. After using files to make the strips match the ribs I needed to use a popsicle stick to tweak the angle of the top fold on the material. The old reinforcement that had been removed were cleaned off the old Hysol and prepped for bonding with scotch brite.

Used side clamp clecos to hold reinforcement into place and popsicle sticks to ensure alignment with the capstrip.

Relieved the No 1 rib per the manual for fuel lines and to provide access to finger screens in wing tanks.

I am wondering if there is not a reason to simply continue the diagonal line down to the 1/8” mark rather than making a trapezoid shape where the shear web has been relieved for fuel lines.

Jason Murphy

05-20-2023, 09:20 PM

Touched up epoxy primer under the wing tank area.

Epoxy primer to leading edge in preparation to bond leading edge material.

Ordered a Daniels 22520/2-01 Crimper under the advice of Stanton Runyon at Higginsville Avionics. I will need to get a K42 and K13-1 insert to accommodate the two types of pins used in the G3X system. He also provided advice for various connectors which will be required. I will likely consult with him when I am ready to install the avionics.

Jason Murphy

05-27-2023, 11:15 PM

Placed 3 coats of epoxy varnish on the inside of No 1 rib and 3 coats at each trailing edge location:

Sanded epoxy primer on spar smooth with 220 grit sandpaper cleaned with denatured alcohol prior to bonding wing tank.

Wing tank had previously been sanded in prep for bonding when the edges were made square and true.

Received help from my son Jaden for this portion. Prepped and bonded wing tanks into place using the supplied Dow Corning 739 RTV.

Cleaned up excess after tank had been placed. Used tape to secure tank in place while adhesive cures. Placed additional beads of adhesive at the bottom rear of the tank to ensure there will be no fore and aft movement.

Fit No. 2 rib in their respective locations.

I am wondering if anyone dresses up the area around the filling neck of the fuel tank prior to covering.

bbs428

05-28-2023, 07:41 AM

Jaden looks to be a great help! Nice to get him involved. Your making good progress.

I smoothed the filling neck area with 3m 5200 polyurethane sealant. After covering and before painting I made a fillet around the neck as well. I did this throughout the plane in troublesome transition areas.
Use Prep-all wax and grease remover or something like it on your fingers to smooth it without it sticking to you!

32358

Jason Murphy

05-29-2023, 09:39 PM

Worked on installing the No 2 ribs today.

The rib had been fitted to the rib and tank during my previous session.

Clamped a 4” level between ribs 1 and 3 to ensure Rib 2 would be in alignment with adjacent ribs.

Used a piece of angle iron clamped just forward of the rear spar to ensure the bottom strip maintains the same profile as adjacent ribs.

It also put slight pressure against the level opposite the spar to ensure alignment.

Clamped scales to the leading edge and trailing edge and capstrip of the ribs to ensure the No 2 will be square with the adjacent ribs.

Used a dremel to sand the trail I edge of the rib to allow proper alignment of the trailing edge material.
Used files to make a radius cut into the trailing edge material and debur trailing edge.
Dry fit trailing edge.

When satisfied with the fit of all the parts mixed Hysol with no flox. Placed it on the rib and part of the no 2 that bonds to the spar. Located and clamped all pieces into place. Then mixed remaining Hysol with flox and created fillets and made a transition from the No 2 rib cap strip to the wing tank.

Due to having limited tooling I allowed the right wing to cure for about 4 to 6 hours before removing the level and begging work on the left wing.

Followed the same process on the left wing.

Jason Murphy

05-29-2023, 09:44 PM

I had printed some downloadable drawings from the kitfox website and spoke with my boys about designing a paint scheme. I asked them to come up with several designs and we will incorporate the best of each design into the final paint scheme. Attached is the first design Jaden had made. In particular I like the red white and blue colors and what he did with the wing tips, vertical stabilizer and rudder. I feel like if a similar pattern was incorporated into the horizontal stabilizer as was incorporated into the wingtips it would help tie things together.

Perhaps having something starting at the fuselage and working its way out to the tips would be nice as well.

Jason Murphy

06-04-2023, 10:06 PM

Placed a Thermo Bob 1 Kit on order to regulate the flow of coolant and maintain a coolant temperature of 180 degrees Fahrenheit.

Using side clamp clecos attach flaperon to wing. Using speed squares located the center of the rib and clamped squares to the wing to aid in centering the slit in the flaperon skin on the rib. The flaperon hangars simply cannot be trusted. They all require tweaking to make them perpendicular to the surface of the flaperon. Some of them are slightly twisted when they were welded. They required tweaking to remove the twist. When I was finally satisfied I drilled the No 30 holes in ribs to attach flaperons. Cleco flaperons onto the wing. Fabricated a shim to go beneath the hangar that attaches to the No 3 rib on the right side. The bracket wanted to float and the spacer filled the void. It was fabricated from 0.032 Aluminum.

Leveled the fuselage fore and aft and side to side. Completed most of the rigging for the flaperons. There will likely be some minor adjustments needed during final assembly.

I then sat back and wiggled the stick reflecting on all of the hours of work it took to make that happen.

I will need to fabricate a wing cradle as well as a rotisserie to finish work on the wings. I will need to take the wings off to finish the work on them.

I was wondering if anyone has adjusted the threaded rod that is part of the mixer?

Also was wondering if the long push pull tube that runs beneath the seat rubs on the fuselage tubes under it? I cocked mine sideways a bit and tightened the lock nuts to prevent any friction. Was wondering of that’s a common issue. I have read where people have installed blocks beneath the seat pan to prevent the seat pan from flexing and binding the controls.

Jason Murphy

06-05-2023, 11:15 PM

After consulting with an experienced builder regarding some trouble I had with rigging the flaperon push pull tubes I was able to accomplish the task. It really is amazing how the Kitfox community is willing to help one another. I was clearly over thinking the “neutral” flaperon setting as having zero angle to the fuselage.

I also found another interesting method to hold the wings in place as I work on them. This is courtesy of Rich Kimble who posted a video of his Piggyback STOL kit. I already have my wing jigs all I would need to do is develop a way to support the wing vertically. This could probably be accomplished by placing 2 vertical boards on the jig.

Received my new windscreen, bubble doors, and matching quarter windows also great service and quick turn around by LP Aero.

Jason Murphy

06-06-2023, 11:16 PM

Removed the wings from the airplane. Stored the flaperons from the rafters.

Cleaned work area re configured the workspace for working on the wings.

Modified my wing jigs to make a rudimentary rotisserie. There is nothing fancy but it will reliably hold the wings in a horizontal and vertical position to work on.

I will begin work on the left wing because it was already in the work area when it was removed from the fuselage.

I plan on verifying the position of the top false ribs. Prepping the leading edge for the leading edge extrusion and locating and bonding the false ribs.

Simple modification to the wong jigs. I moved my bottom brace where it was flush with the top of the sawhorse. I then took 2x2 and attached it with 2.5” deck screws. I put a small cross bar 16” above the floor to support the weight of the wing. The weight is supported by the lower spar. The top spar can be clamped in place for security or simply float in place supported by the vertical 2x2.

Jason Murphy

06-10-2023, 10:29 PM

Moved wing under car port.

Primed leading edge. There were some areas where I broke through the primer Thant I had placed on the spar previously. I also primed some of the cross braces and a few bays of the rear spar with extra primer that I had mixed. This will seal out any moisture and protect the spar in areas you are unable to inspect after the wing assembly is completed.

After the primer had cured I moved the wing back inside and began fitting false ribs beneath the wing tank. I prepped the wing tank with 220 grit sandpaper and bonded the false ribs in place.

I also began fitting spacers below Rib No 2. I am using rib reinforcement material on its side to provide a narrow profile so it will not interfere with aesthetic rib stitching which will be placed there to match the stitching on the other ribs.

Bonded the tail light housing in place on the rudder with hysol. Held housing in place with tape. I plan to return to the area and place a structural fillet after the initial hysol cures.

Filled some voids in the welds on the frame per instructions early in the fuselage build section where the manual directs you to fill any places that may collect moisture with hysol. As I approach covering I need to remember that open access to the airframe will become limited in the near future. I should also look for areas I may need a smooth transition for the fabric.

Jason Murphy

06-12-2023, 09:40 PM

Installed false ribs on the bottom side of the left wing today.

Used yard sticks to measure the position of the false ribs on the bottom and then using another set of yard sticks in the front and rear of the rib to ensure the ribs were placed in the same location on top. Measured from the leading and trailing edge of the false rib.

Prior to installing false they were straightened. The edge of a 4” level was used as a straight edge for comparison.

Prepped the spar and stringer with scotch brite and alcohol. Temporarily bonded the false ribs to the spar and stringer. Metal surfaces are re prepped with alcohol and hysol fillets were applied to all of the false ribs.

Remaining hysol was used to fill rivet heads to prevent any potential water from seeping into the wing spar through a rivet head. Also contained to fill areas on the frame where water could collect or the powder coating could potentially be thin.

Jason Murphy

06-14-2023, 08:52 PM

Scuffed the primer on the leading edge with 400 grit sandpaper being ensuring Indo not break through the primer.

Prepped the leading edge with 100 grit sandpaper

Dry fit the leading edge with the leading edge template. Provided relief cuts for the front lift strut bracket and any rivets from the spar insert which were interfering with the fit of the leading edge and spar. Dressed up rough edges with 100 grit sandpaper. Cleaned surfaces with alcohol.

Created a hinge from masking tape per the build manual. Cradled the leading edge with side clamp clecos. Double checked the position of the leading edge material. Prepped all bonding surfaces with alcohol. Mixed 65 grams of hysol and applied a bead to the three surfaces which contact the spar. Flipped the leading edge on the masking tape hinge. Rechecked the position of the leading edge at each rib and secured the leading edge with tape.

Using excess hysol bonded the tail light housing to the rudder. I was not satisfied with the result and removed it again and cleaned the hysol off it. I emailed Brandon and promptly received a return email. I suspect that the ribs of my speedster tail may be slightly off which is causing my troubles. I have tried flipping the housing over without improvement. I may need to do some fitting to ensure I do not have any cant. Brandon advised he prefers to install the housing after the covering has been applied.

I took my AeroLED lights outside and used a set of test leads to connect them to the 12v battery of our minivan. It was pretty fun to see them working. Noted the vent hole on my Suntail was occluded. Emailed AeroLED to see if this will be a functional issue which needs addressed.

bbs428

06-15-2023, 05:18 AM

Making good headway Jason. Keep on, keeping on!

Jason Murphy

06-16-2023, 07:32 PM

Scuffed the outside of the leading edge material with 400 grit sandpaper.

Applied a coat of superfil by wiping it on with a popsicle stick then spreading it with a bondo squeegee. Attempted to create a transition between the ribs and leading edge. Made an initial coat between the wing tank and leading edge. This transition will require at least one or two more coats. Also made a smoother transition around the lift strut bracket.

Marked 4 inch intervals on the wing tank. Used my 4 foot level to bridge between the No 1 and No 3 ribs. Sanded rib reinforcement material down to match the contour of the adjacent ribs. Bonded strips to wing tank and No 2 rib with hysol.

Again using a yard stick to help assess the orientation of the tail light housing. Using the vertical tube the hinges of the rudder are welded. I placed a yard stick on the flat surface of the tail light housing. I measured just above the housing it was 462 mm from the back of the vertical rudder tube. I then measured about 18 inches above the tail light housing and found it measured 495 mm. I checked orientation of the housing and it definitely did not fit flipped over. I then sanded the top of the housing until the distance measured at the two points was 462 mm. (I will attach a photo when I have someone to take the photo because both hands are used to hold the yardsticks.

Called Kitfox about exchanging firewall for a burnished firewall. I wish I knew about this option when I ordered my FWF kit. It would need to be shipped freight which may be cost prohibitive especially both ways. Exploring options I could have it powder coated. I looked at round trip flights. I may be able to fly up for the kitfox fly in and check the firewall as cargo and fly it back. I would need to call the airlines for more information.

Jason Murphy

06-16-2023, 09:34 PM

I am hoping this will be a with while investment of my time especially since I did not choose the Laker Leading Edge option.

My plan for tomorrow will be to work my way down the wing with my 3/8” rod and sand a nice smooth radius into the fillet of Hysol used to bond the ribs to the spar. I will be stopping just short of the spar and this will allow the Hysol to serve as a warning that the spar is just below that point if I continue to sand.

After sanding the radius I will lay a bead of Superfil behind the line that is tangent to where the fabric will take off of the wing. After the bead cures it will act as a dam and I will fill in front of the bead to ensure a uniform and smooth transition of the fabric off the spar onto the ribs.

Otherwise I could simply fill the small triangle area in front of the ribs and see how that makes the transition. I setup a handful of ribs in this fashion towards the tip of the wing to attempt this method. We will do some sanding in the morning and decide which method works best.

Jason Murphy

06-18-2023, 09:07 PM

Mixed up Superfil, applied round 3 to left wing. Suspended left wing from ceiling.

Moved right wing to wing jigs. Scuffed epoxy primer on leading edge with 400 grit sandpaper.

Using heat gun removed the false ribs to straighten them and place them back onto wing. Used towels to insulate and mask areas I do not want to heat such as brackets. Setup shop vac to blow cool air down the wing spar to prevent heat from being conducted to areas I do not want to be heated. Monitored the temperature of areas I do not want to heat by physically touching them to ensure they do not become hot. Cleaned up old hysol with scotch brite.

Tomorrow I plan on cleaning up the ribs with a dremel and remove all of the old hysol. I also need to finish cleaning up the old hysol off the spars.

I would like to bond the leading edge and the false then apply the superfil and begin creating a transition between the leading edge and ribs with Superfil.

I am wondering if I should fill the areas on the bottom of the fuselage between the landing gear attachment points and between the forward landing gear attachment point and the fabric attachment point just rear of the boot cowl.

alexM

06-18-2023, 10:06 PM

I am wondering if I should fill the areas on the bottom of the fuselage between the landing gear attachment points and between the forward landing gear attachment point and the fabric attachment point just rear of the boot cowl.
My opinion (worth $0.002), yes. I did, and if I built another Kitfox I would also fill the space between the main gear attach point and the brackets behind them.
32489

Jason Murphy

06-20-2023, 12:07 AM

My opinion (worth $0.002), yes. I did, and if I built another Kitfox I would also fill the space between the main gear attach point and the brackets behind them.
32489

Thanks Alex, the image you attached shows exactly what I was trying to visualize. It appears to be a very smooth and clean transition that you created. I will very likely follow suit.

Jason Murphy

06-20-2023, 12:15 AM

Used dremel to remove hysol from false ribs which have been removed. Emailed Kitfox asking for prices on replacement ribs thinking they could not be too expensive and it may be a more efficient use of time. They wanted nearly 10 dollars each. I sent Brandon a picture and he reported the old ones were serviceable. I plan to check into the military standard it is my understanding the adhesive used to bond the ply is not adversely effected by heat. Otherwise I could easily go to Wicks and purchase some 3 mm Finnish Birch Ply and use my unused ribs as a master template. The cost to do this would be around 40 dollars in materials. I have 2 friends who are accomplished wood workers and I'm sure would be happy to let me use their shop.

Onto forward progress. I cleaned up all the remaining hysol from the spars with scotch brite.

I created relief cuts in the leading edge material for the rivets on the spar and the lift strut attachment bracket. I prepped the bonding surfaces of the leading edge material with 100 grit sandpaper and alcohol.

Took a break from building to teach a local ambulance district how to use the new ventilators they received from COVID grants. Then back to building…

The leading edge template was used to locate the leading edge material on the forward spar. Once again a hinge was created from masking tape per the instructions. The bonding surfaces are once again prepped with alcohol. 80 grams of hysol was mixed and used to bond the leading edge material to the front spar. Masking tape was used to secure the material and the position of the leading edge material was once again checked using the leading edge template. A fillet of hysol was used to bond and fill the areas relief cuts were made. Cleaned excess hysol with alcohol and set to cure for the night. After excess hysol was cleaned from relief cut for lift strut bracket tape was used to secure leading edge material approximately every 2 to 3 inches.

Jason Murphy

06-21-2023, 10:08 PM

Note: Previous post occurred on 19 June 2023

After adhesive has cured rechecked the location of the leading edge.

Mixed 180 g of Superfil and applied to the leading edge to create a smooth transition between the leading edge material, the spar, and wing ribs. I will need to return and create transitions between the false ribs after they have been replaced. I spent some time cleaning hysol from the ribs which had been removed. I have about half of them completed at this time.

Jason Murphy

06-21-2023, 10:36 PM

Day at work spent planning my next workday and developing a shopping list for my next trip to Wicks or to place an online order with Aircraft Spruce.

Called Garmin because I am having trouble finding hardware which will work to secure the pitot mast in the adjustable Garmin mount. The problem I am experiencing is a No 6 screw is loose and a No 8 screw will not fit. Before modifying the kit I wanted to check with Garmin and see what hardware they recommend. The lady who took the call was unable to provide any additional information. The suggestion was made to ream the holes to accept a no 8 screw. I am less than enthusiastic about that plan although it may be the only option. I would like to find AN hardware similar to a bold that has an unthreaded shank to provide the most support. I will continue to follow up on this.

While shopping I noticed cable lacing tape was made from Waxed Dacron and had a tensile strength of 50 lbs. I emailed Poly Fiber and ask if their flat rib lacing cord would also be suitable for this application. Greg at Poly Fiber confirmed their Rib Lacing Cord is also made from Dacron has a similar tensile strength and would likely be suitable for that application as well. So rather than use Black Cable Lacing Cord I will use my Poly Fiber Rib Lacing Cord for double duty as Cable Lacing Tape as well.

Over the past few days I have continued to dwell on what my registration number will be. I was not fully satisfied with my previous choices which I had reserved. I developed various combinations of my children’s birthdays and queried the FAA database for the various combinations. I finally came up with a registration number I am really happy with N462SM. It used the last digit from each of my children’s birthdays followed by SM which stands for “Show Me” because the airplane was built in Missouri and Missouri is the “Show Me State”I paid the fee and reserved the new N Number today. that I am really happy with.

Watched some videos on covering with Poly Fiber. I am interested in the Superflite process as it was highly recommended by me friend Roy.

Emailed Kitfox regarding my filler neck on the wing tanks and the best way to clean that up and prevent corrosion. If there was any reason I should not use body filler on the fuselage at the landing gear attachment points and if I would be able to have powder coating applied to various parts without damaging them.

I plan to begin the Aircraft Registration process tomorrow and continue work on the leading edge.

Jason Murphy

06-22-2023, 07:44 PM

Sanded initial coat of superfil with sanding block.

Applied second layer of superfil In required areas.

Touched up around the tank filler neck. I will need to apply a generous amount to the top of the wing tank and sand smooth. The curve of the wing tank is not smooth and consistent across the width or depth of the tank. There is a gap of nearly 1/4” in some locations when checked with the leading edge template. Scuff sanded the top of the wing tank in preparation to apply filler. I will likely need to do something similar with the left wing. I plan to use my 4’ level as a sanding block. Otherwise I could pickup a sanding block at Wicks.

Av8r_Sed

06-23-2023, 02:41 PM

Hi Jason,
I'm enjoying the detail and thought you're putting into your build thread. Please make all the mistakes before I get to my next build. I did notice in the registration post, that you're pretty much DOXing yourself putting out that much information from the form. Pretty easy for any bot to pick up all your info. I'm not sure if it would work, but taking down that photo and replacing it with a redacted one might be a good move.

Jason Murphy

06-23-2023, 07:51 PM

Things are slowly coming together.

Sanded the second coat of Superfil down. I only have a dab left in my tub so I will need to get another tub on the way. That will be my 3rd tub since beginning the project. The wing tank filler neck cleaned up nicely. I will attach a photo to a later entry.

I plan on taking a pencil and marking the spots that I missed last time and applying 3rd round to fill any small bubbles and to continue on streamlining the lift strut bracket.

Comparing kits who used the fiberglass leading edge the edge is trimmed at the lift strut bracket.

I plan on moving the left wing back to the jigs to work on it while the Superfil cures.

Jason Murphy

06-25-2023, 08:24 AM

With the help of Ted Myers & Myers Aviation reached a solution to the hardware needed for the pitot tube mast.

increased the size of the hole using a No 19 drill bit. A No 20 bit would allow the threaded portion of the screw through but not the shank.

Used an AN525 Washer Head Screw which was sufficiently long the unthreaded shank was long enough to fit through both ears of the bracket to secure the mast in place.

Need to order some No 8 washers and No 8 AN365 nuts to secure the assembly. I will order 4 - AN 526 6-32 R4 screws to secure the pitot tube in the pitot mast. This satisfies Garmin specifications of 0.218 min - 0.312 max length requirements.

Jason Murphy

06-25-2023, 07:40 PM

Additional thoughts regarding hardware for the Pitot Mast… and we wonder why I have trouble sleeping at night.

A fact that I had overlooked yesterday. I chose the heated pitot tube. It would likely be best that I use a metal lock nut because I chose the heated pitot tube. The heat may conduct its way through the mast and weaken a nylon lock nut. There is a comment in the instructions regarding a minimum length the aluminum tube should be before the pitot / AOA tubing transition to plastic.

I will contact Garmin for clarification on the suitability of a wooden board to mount the tube and the requisite for other mounting hardware.

Jason Murphy

06-27-2023, 10:24 PM

This entry contains a few days of work.

Ordered some additional avionics today I will be using the Vertical Power System to manage power distribution.

I committed to the decision of fabricating new false ribs. The existing ribs are probably safe however up to this point in the project I have never been shy of doing extra work to give myself peace of mind.

Yesterday I made a trip to Highland IL to Wicks Aircraft. I picked up some hardware, Superfil, Uncertified Light Fabric for use as bias tape and to cut doilies from when I begin the covering process. You may ask yourself why I would make my own bias tape and the reason for that is I am able to start with one thickness and make it wider where the bias tape will make a corner. This would give my finishing tapes a uniform perimeter all the way around otherwise you may run into where your border is 2” then in the area your bias tape is you only have a 1.5” perimeter.

Today I began work on fabricating new false ribs using the plywood purchased from Wicks Aircraft. Referencing the videos published by Kitfox I purchased 2.5mm Finnish Birch. The kitfox ribs measured 0.107” which falls between 2.5mm and 3mm plywood. The 2.5mm ply measured 0.100” and the layers matched the original ribs. I compared them to the 3mm ply wood and it was thicker and the schedule in which the material was different. I concluded the difference may be due to different lots.

Using an original Kitfox rib which I had not bonded or fitted to the spars I traced both the bottom and top ribs onto the material. These two ribs were designated as “master” ribs. They will be saved after the project is complete if I should happen to have the need to make additional ribs. I could have left some additional material between the parts to use as a buffer however I wanted to make sure I was able to cut a whole set of ribs from this one piece of material.

When I contacted Kitfox for replacement ribs, they wanted approximately 10 dollars per rib for replacements.
They also wanted to sell me full sets of 46 and 52 ribs which made the final price just under 1000 dollars for replacement ribs.

I was able to purchase this board for 35 dollars which is enough material to produce a whole set of top and bottom ribs for one wing and extra.

jiott

06-28-2023, 01:01 PM

Jason, I like your idea of making your own bias tape and varying the width to suit. Bias tape is wonderful stuff that makes doing corners a piece of cake. However, the width does shrink quite a lot as it is pulled around a corner.

Jason Murphy

06-29-2023, 12:10 PM

Using a scroll saw cut new ribs.

Left ribs slightly oversized with the intention of sanding the false ribs down to the profile of the wing ribs.

I made a few extra and have some leftover materials if I need to make a few more.

Jason Murphy

06-30-2023, 10:21 PM

I have been lazy the last few days and not particularly focused on the project.

I got back to work for a bit this afternoon. I began the task of creating a nice smooth transition for each rib and removing the excess Superfil.

I was also not satisfied with my No 2 rib on the left side. Using a coping saw I loosened the handle where the blade would flex. I was able to slide the blade between the elevated capstrip and the wing tank and cut the rib stiffener material that held the capstrip in place. I then used an into dremel and widdled away at the adhesive and prepared the surfaces for bonding again.

I have 2 more that I need to clean up before bonding the capstrip again.

I have also developed a new strategy how I will locate supports for the capstrip.

The poly fiber manual states to have rib stitching every 2.5 inches at a minimum within the prop wash area. I intend to use the front and rear of the rear spar as index points and begin my spacing from there. That way I will not be trying to run stitch and have a wing spar mess up my spacing.

If my memory serves me right center to center of the wing spars is 27.5” this means there will be a minimum of 10 to 11 stitches which will lie between the leading edge of the rear spar and the trailing edge of the rear spar.

And then we went fishing

jiott

07-01-2023, 01:45 PM

Jason Murphy

07-02-2023, 12:10 AM

When laying out the spacing for your rib stitching, there are several more things other than spars that can interfere with the spacing, such as the diagonal drag tubes, etc. What I did was to lay out my spacing marks on a thin flexible strip of wood or fiberglass trimming. Then move that stick to each rib and make sure there is nothing in the way under it at each mark. Check each rib on both wings. I found I had to tweak my spacing marks several times before I found a pattern that worked everywhere. If you do this ahead of time your rib stitches will all line up perfectly, instead of having to move one or two out of line to miss something under it. Don't worry if you have to stretch or shorten a spacing 1/8" or even 1/4" different from your normal spacing. That small difference is not noticeable if they all are the same and perfectly lined up.

Thanks Jim, I took your suggestion into consideration today.

Referencing the poly fiber manual the area within the propwash area needs to be spaced at maximum of 2.5”

Propwash area is defined as the diameter of the prop plus one rib bay.

The biggest prop I have seen up to this point is 75” meaning 37.5” from the center of the fuselage is the propwash area. By eyeball 20 of those inches is fuselage leaving the tip of the prop to fall somewhere around the second rib. Plus 1 rib means the 3rd rib should have a maximum of 2.5” then for the remaining ribs I will have to work out that spacing.

I do know if I use 2.5” indexed off the rear spar the diagonal tubes will get in the way. I may try shifting my start ot stop point.

To tease out my remaining ribs I think I will use the diagonal tubes as an index and I will measure from the trailing edge to be repeatable when the fabric has been bonded. The remaining ribs would require a maximum of 3.5”

Also on the bottom of the wing my hole spacing will need to be slightly tighter because there is more distance across the top of the wing. When I did the math it came out to 2.45” I rounded to 2 7/16”

Thanks for keeping me from dorking this up down the road!

Jason Murphy

07-02-2023, 05:55 AM

Started the day by finishing my cleanup job on my No 2 rib.

Sanded away the old hysol and prepped the tank for bonding again. I believe I failed to mention the reason why I am repeating this work. Despite my best efforts the no 2 rib was quite proud over the surrounding false ribs and wing ribs.

Figured out rib lacing spacing for the underside of the wing. I plan on throwing some stitches under here to continue the pattern and to help the fabric adhere to the under camber. Mixed some Superfil with micro balloons to prevent sag. Applied a dollop of Superfil and laid the rib into place. Double checking its position vertically and laterally on the wing. Placed levels and angle iron on the rib to hold it down. Used popsicle sticks as spacers underneath. Applied a generous amount of hysol mixed with flox to the forward part of the rib. Which will undoubtedly be exquisitely painful to sand and transition.

The remaining portion of the day was spent sanding and creating a nice smooth transition between the ribs and the leading edges and spar. I feel to eliminate this step is the real reason for the composite leading edge.

Applied a small amount of hysol to small air bubbles areas and did some additional work around the lift strut to provide a nice smooth surface for the fabric to bond and take off from.

jiott

07-02-2023, 01:40 PM

Personally, I like the look of the same stitch spacing the full length of the wing, even though it is legit to widen the spacing outside the propwash area. All stitches lined up look really good.

Jason Murphy

07-03-2023, 11:02 PM

Not much to say today.

Continue dressing the leading edge with sand paper.

Finished making transitions between the wing ribs and the spars and leading edge.

I hope this is not a mistake.

I have noticed there are small dips between the baffles of the wing tank as well as the leading edge of the wing tanks and the trailing edge of the wing tanks.

Sanded the top of the wingtank to give the superfil something to bond to. Cleaned the top of the tank several times with alcohol and lastly acetone to ensure there were no mold release agents which would interfere with bonding.

I applied a skim coat (210g) of Superfil to the top of the wing tank. I am going to visit the local autobody shop and see if I would be able to borrow a large sanding block to create a nice uniform finish across the top of the wing tank.

That seems like a lot of weight but I would be willing to bet that 2/3 of it will be sanded away.

The goal is to create a uniform crown on the wing tank and improve the transition of the No 2 rib at the rear of the wing tank.

Fingers Crossed!

Jason Murphy

07-07-2023, 01:46 AM

Sanded superfil from top of wing tanks to a minimum thickness. Checked leading edge using contour gauge and it still needs some work. Crown of tank is level between tank baffles.

Very time consuming but I believe the end result will be worth the effort.

Installed header tank. I was required to dress the upper left bung in order for the bolt to pass. Measured from the cross tube below the tank to the bottom of the tank to make sure it was mounted square. I should probably dress the edges of the other bungs on the wing tank to prevent snagging and minimize sharp corners.

I plan to have the header tank finished with powder coat or primer.

Laid our floorboards, plan to arrange the grain of the wood span wise to better blend the transition between boards

Removed rivets from rudder pedals.

Took rudder pedals and levers to Powder Coat to have color changed from white to black

Jason Murphy

07-08-2023, 11:43 PM

Unfortunately I was not able to work much today. I was out all night the evening before as a medivac nurse/medic and needed to sleep most of my day off away.

I have been wanting to remake floorboards for quite some time. I laid the original floor boards out on my 1/8” mahogany ply and traced their shape. Rough cuts were completed using a hand saw. Finer cuts were made using a scroll saw. I plan to reach the final dimensions and fitting with sandpaper. In order to better locate the floor board tab holes I plan to turn a drill guide from scrap aluminum. I will then stain the internal laminate mahogany finish sand and use a spar varnish to seal the wood. It doesn’t make sense to use the epoxy varnish when the floor boards do not need to withstand the abuse of the MEK and will provide a better finish. I recruited the assistance of my oldest son Jaden to assist in cutting the boards.

I have also received some additional tooling I purchased second hand online a coax crimper and stripper.

I have also began to make preparations for AirVenture. I greased the wheel bearings of my camper today. I consulted our base mechanic on his preference for a grease gun and he advised I should buy a Lincoln. I found one online for a comparable price to the local hardware stores and I must say it is a quality piece of equipment. All the tire’s including the spare have been inflated to their recommended pressure. We will be making lists and taking care of odds and ends over the next week.

Jason Murphy

07-12-2023, 08:33 PM

Received my parts back from powder coat. Powder Coat Plus in Quincy IL they were great to work with did a great job stripping the old and applying new.

I will have them do some additional work in the future. I kinda wish I would have had them apply powder coat to the brackets in my center console prior to assembly. I will need to use paint to prevent breakdown of the adhesive and filler that was applied. I don’t believe it would be a good use of resources and time to disassemble it for a third time. I disassembled it to install the nut plates on the sides.

I had requested they plug the ends to prevent the build up of powder coat on the inside. This resulted in a small buildup on the ends. I am going to try and dress this up the end and if I am not happy I will get back in touch with them and repeat the job this time without plugging the ends. Attached are pictures they did great work!

Tomorrow I will be completing the sale of my C150. A little sad to see it allowed me to build time and complete my commercial certificate but I know it will be going to a good home.

Jason Murphy

07-14-2023, 09:08 PM

Rough fit the new mahogany floorboard. Before drilling the holes I want to ensure all floorboards will fit together without gaps.

I need to take a look at options for corrosion prevention inside the rudder pedal torque tubes. I had a gentleman who operated a shop who specialized in repair of Cessna 195’s tell me one time that they used to coat the inside of fuselage tubes with linseed oil. He went on to tell me that he coats the inside of his air compressors with linseed oil.

I am back to work tomorrow and will do some research on the topic and continue to get ready for AirVenture.

rv9ralph

07-14-2023, 09:14 PM

If you are worried about corrosion on the inside of the tubes for the rudders, look up Corrosion X.

Jason Murphy

07-14-2023, 09:21 PM

I have a Spruce order together, I will add some probably exactly the product I’m looking for.

Dave S

07-15-2023, 06:23 AM

[QUOTE=Jason Murphy;109043].....
I need to take a look at options for corrosion prevention inside the rudder pedal torque tubes. I had a gentleman who operated a shop who specialized in repair of Cessna 195’s tell me one time that they used to coat the inside of fuselage tubes with linseed oil. He went on to tell me that he coats the inside of his air compressors with linseed oil.
/QUOTE]

Jason,

Although the procedure has been approximately 97% forgotten about, the use of linseed oil (meaning boiled linseed oil (BLO), not raw linseed oil) for corrosion protection, where internal spaces or overlapped seams are not open to normal painting, is a pretty good way to to accomplish rust/corrosion control.

While it works well and is inexpensive, people have also forgotten the potential of the stuff to autoignite in relatively short order if mishandled - mishandled meaning putting the soaked cleanup rags in a pile where it can't shed the heat produced.

Some years back a local airport lost a couple hangars and some planes when a person put the soaked linseed oil rags in a pail - one of my pals was flying the next day and noticed smoke coming out of the rafters and shortly the whole thing went up in flames.

BLO is great for corrosion control, penetrates well, sheds moisture, very inexpensive and perfectly safe if used correctly just be aware of its penchant for starting fires if mishandled. Not that this cannot happen with other oil products, but linseed oil is really good at self oxidizing in soaked up rags - and it doesn't take long.

Jason Murphy

07-17-2023, 06:29 AM

Revisiting the floorboards…

Using the factory floorboards as a template I cut floorboards from 1/8” aircraft grade mahogany acquired from Wicks Aircraft in Highland IL.

After they had been cut I fitted them using a dremel and sandpaper. I started with the forward board then the rear and the middle board actually fits on top of the rear. A bevel was sanded into the rear edge to match the rear floor board.

Used a side clamp cleco with a pencil that had been cut down to locate and mark hole locations for the tabs. As the boards were drilled they were secured with screws. The purpose was to prevent migration which occurred on my first set.

Drilled with a No. 30 bit and used a countersink tool With a No 30 pilot to countersink. The floorboards were secured with flush mount washers and screws.

I ordered some pure tung oil to seal the wood. I am planning on installing an aluminum plate on the middle board to minimize wear on the middle floorboard from rubbing my heels.

Needing to find a solution to the low set tabs on the fuselage. This seems to be a known issue with the factory jig. I will likely fabricate a spacer from plywood. Suggestions were made to stack washers and use Rivnuts however I have had a lot of advice from experienced A&P mechanics to avoid Rivnuts if possible. Although I do find using a machine screw much more appealing than a sheet metal screw.

Jason Murphy

07-17-2023, 09:29 PM

Service bulletin SB 912 i-013 does not apply to the fuel pumps / fuel pump assembly on this aircraft based on serial number.

Effected part numbers are 889694 from serial number 180500 up to 203724.

Fuel Pump Housing: Part No. 889696 S/N 22.0025
Fuel Pump 1: Part No. 889691 ASSY S/N 21.4295
Fuel Pump 2: Part No. 889691 ASSY S/N 21.4319

Jason Murphy

07-17-2023, 09:35 PM

Geek

07-18-2023, 05:56 AM

Revisiting the floorboards… ............Needing to find a solution to the low set tabs on the fuselage. This seems to be a known issue with the factory jig. I will likely fabricate a spacer from plywood. Suggestions were made to stack washers and use Rivnuts however I have had a lot of advice from experienced A&P mechanics to avoid Rivnuts if possible. Although I do find using a machine screw much more appealing than a sheet metal screw.

I am one of those Rivnut fans Jason but also understand they have limitations and are not just a 'general' go to solution. They are awesome for applications where there is little to no stress other than just holding something in place. In the case of your floorboards they are perfect. You are going to be taking those boards in and out so many times over the build and being able to use the machine screw and knowing they aren't going to strip out is just too good. The other complaint is that they break loose and rotate in their holes. I use a drop of the Loctite lock that you use on the elevator bearings when I install mine. Have done that for years on old car/Jeep rebuilds and never had one break loose. But then again, we are talking about applications where you really aren't using a lot of torque on the screw/bolt to install. I did use a thin shim between my floorboards and the mounting tang to take up the slack and it worked great.

Obviously my 2 cents on the rivnuts. Your build and attention to detail is awesome man!

Gary

Jason Murphy

07-18-2023, 09:30 PM

Gary,

Thank You for sharing information on the appropriate use of Rivnuts. The advice I was under prior to this was they should be avoided like the plague. Primarily due to the tendency to spin. From how you describe it they spin because they have been abused in some capacity and pushed beyond what they had been designed to do.

Your comments regarding attention to detail are very encouraging. I have been occasionally reviewing your work and it means a lot coming from someone who I feel like is doing top notch work.

Thanks Agan!

alexM

07-20-2023, 08:28 AM

I have been looking at the Sensenich 3 Blade Ground Adjustable Props. I was wondering if anyone had any experience with them?

After speaking with the rep today I understand they are furnished with 6 indexing pins. To set the prop pitch you simply turn the blade to full fine insert the index in of your choice then turn the prop blade to engage the index pin.

Basically there are 6 positions you can set the prop and the index pins provide a quick and repeatable way to adjust the prop without protractors. Each pin will adjust the pitch by approximately 1 degree or 3” of pitch.

I may be posting a used Whirlwind Prop and Spinner for sale in the near future if all this checks out. I will be visiting their booth at AirVenture in the coming weeks.

I have the Sensenich two blade on my plane right now. Can't say as I've flown behind it but I have installed it and set the pitch using the pins you mention. It's a very cool concept. Not quite as fancy as the Duc prop with the single Allen Wrench hole in the middle but still pretty awesome. Quality of the prop is outstanding. The blades are beautifully made. I checked tracking on mine just last week and the blades track less than 1/16" apart.

If you search the web you'll read where people caution you to still use a protractor to check the blade pitch when you set it with the pins.

RE: Rivnuts
I've a very vocal Rivnut hater based on my career with the big airplane company. All it takes is one spun rivnut to ruin your entire afternoon. There are locations where you don't have a choice. When that occurs: ALWAYS use "keyed" Rivnuts, DO use something to help secure them like the Loctite that Gary uses, DO run a screw through them several times to make sure the threads are clear before you put parts together, DO NOT ever let some knuckle dragger anywhere near them once installed.

Jason Murphy

08-04-2023, 08:23 PM

First work session following AirVenture

Ordered a Tannis Heater for the Rotax engine at AirVenture.

Applied a coat of Tung Oil to my floor boards.

I have been looking at various options for fabric covering systems. I have decided I am going to use the Stewart Systems waterborne system.

I will benefit from this system because it will allow me to continue my work at home. I spoke with Marty at Stewart Systems. He advised their system is approved for use with all types of fabric. I clarified to ensure I am in compliance with their STC and instructions for use. I will be able to use the Poly Fiber Fabric (or any manufacturers) and Tapes with Stewart Systems adhesives, sealants and top coats and be in compliance with their STC.

In addition the Stewart System does not require the PPE required by other systems. Marty advised I would even be able to spray their top coats with a simple respirator. Essentially I will be able to complete all of my work at home using their system which is huge a huge windfall.

I requested reviews from people who have used the Stewart System and received positive feedback. A friend of mine advised they had trouble in Alaska with bonding and delamination. I discussed this with Marty he advised those issues came from the permeability of EkoFill and moist conditions there. Stewart Systems changed their their process to use the EkoBond as a sealant. EkoBond will make the surface impermeable to water. Essentially the EkoFill will be encapsulated by the EkoBond as the base layer and the topcoat preventing moisture from getting in from the outside.

I have been reading their manual and watching the instructional videos posted on their website.

I can continue to work in my basement without risk of fire or explosion all through the winter.

I also did some sanding on the existing SuperFil in preparation for fabric.

I have been in touch with Sensenich and it appears my 11.3” spinner will be compatible with their 3YO or 3BO prop per their President whom I spoke with at AirVenture and received his contact information.

I apologize about the poor organization of this entry.

Jason Murphy

08-04-2023, 08:36 PM

I have the Sensenich two blade on my plane right now. Can't say as I've flown behind it but I have installed it and set the pitch using the pins you mention. It's a very cool concept. Not quite as fancy as the Duc prop with the single Allen Wrench hole in the middle but still pretty awesome. Quality of the prop is outstanding. The blades are beautifully made. I checked tracking on mine just last week and the blades track less than 1/16" apart.

If you search the web you'll read where people caution you to still use a protractor to check the blade pitch when you set it with the pins.

RE: Rivnuts
I've a very vocal Rivnut hater based on my career with the big airplane company. All it takes is one spun rivnut to ruin your entire afternoon. There are locations where you don't have a choice. When that occurs: ALWAYS use "keyed" Rivnuts, DO use something to help secure them like the Loctite that Gary uses, DO run a screw through them several times to make sure the threads are clear before you put parts together, DO NOT ever let some knuckle dragger anywhere near them once installed.

Thanks Alex,

After speaking with the Sensenich President Steve at AirVenture he advised me of a new prop they released specifically optimized for the Rotax 912 iS and the Vans RV12.

It is the 3YO it’s been out for a few years. It is not on their website. I spoke with Phil from Lockwood aviation and he said that is the prop they are using on their AirCam and he is very pleased with it. I emailed photos of the 3YO to Steve and he reported the 3YO and the Whirlwind Spinnner I have are compatible.

The trade I will make for this setup is the 3YO does not have an adjustment pin. It is similar to yhe Whirlwind where the blades are simply clamped in the prop hub and lined up with a protractor.

Another piece of advice I received from Phil was I should set the pitch to achieve a certain RPM and power setting and stop messing with it. There’s probably a lot of truth to that advice.

Jason Murphy

08-06-2023, 02:27 PM

I have decided to use Stewart Systems for covering. This will allow me to use a lot of my existing materials I.e. fabric and tapes with my their chemicals and remain within the guidelines of their manual and STC. I will be able to use the poly fiber epoxy varnish and primer on the wood and metal also. I will also be able to paint at home instead of 65 miles away at a friends hangar / paint booth. I have been watching videos on their website and reviewing their application manual to familiarize myself with their system.

Fabricated and installed bracing for Rib No 10.

Found 4.5” 7/16 diameter bolts at the farm store. Borrowed an engine hoist and placed the engine on an engine stand. FWF components are placed in a tote for storage until they are ready to install. Covered engine with plastic bag to protect against contamination.

Tannis Heater arrived today. It was placed in parts cabinet.

All the work which remains on the left wing is to fabricate a plate for my pitot mast and bond reinforcements for the No 1 rib. Then this wing will be ready for covering.

I will be installing my Magnetometer in my right wing to avoid interference from the wiring I will be running for pitot heat. It will require 10g wire to handle the 10A of current which will run to it.

Kitfox Pilot

08-06-2023, 06:44 PM

RE: Rivnuts
I've a very vocal Rivnut hater based on my career with the big airplane company. All it takes is one spun rivnut to ruin your entire afternoon. There are locations where you don't have a choice. When that occurs: ALWAYS use "keyed" Rivnuts, DO use something to help secure them like the Loctite that Gary uses, DO run a screw through them several times to make sure the threads are clear before you put parts together, DO NOT ever let some knuckle dragger anywhere near them once installed.[/QUOTE]

Haha, finally someone who agrees with me about rivnuts!

alexM

08-06-2023, 07:50 PM

Wow, look at all that cheap labor! Great that your family members help out.

I'm a big fan of water based stuff (like Stewart Systems)where ever possible. The people who don't like it are generally people who ignored the instructions and applied techniques from legacy systems and got crabby at the results. Stewart Systems used to be in Washington (not too far from Geek), and attended Arlington every year. The planes they brought to show in their booth were beautifully covered.

If I were to build another Kitfox I would put the magnetometer in the right wing too. My left rear spar is a bit busy with pitot/AoA tubing, CANBUS and power for the magnetometer and wires for the WAT tip lights. It all fits but spreading the love would be better.

Billiken

08-06-2023, 09:44 PM

Nice airplane factory Jason! I’ve been tossing around the idea of switching to a 912is to save weight and add endurance. I’ll be watching your build closely going forward. Sorry I missed you at the BBQ. I’ve been working on my garage in preparation for starting my build next year maybe. Keep the posts coming! -Jay

Av8r_Sed

08-07-2023, 05:01 AM

I will be installing my Magnetometer in my right wing to avoid interference from the wiring I will be running for pitot heat. It will require 10g wire to handle the 10A of current which will run to it.

10 ga is overkill for the pitot heat. You will probably have difficulty terminating that large of a wire. I think 14 ga is commonly used with a 15 A fuse or breaker.

Eric Page

08-07-2023, 08:51 AM

10 ga is overkill for the pitot heat.
Agree. 10ft of 14AWG will have ~0.025Ω of resistance. At the full 10A, you'll see 0.25V drop at the pitot tube. Insignificant.

10ft of 10AWG will have ~0.01Ω of resistance and 0.1V drop at 10A. It will weigh about 2.5 times as much as 14AWG.

Geek

08-08-2023, 10:32 AM

Haha, finally someone who agrees with me about rivnuts!

Yeah yeah yeah. They've always worked well for me as long as I don't ask them to do something they weren't designed for. Just kidding with you Harlan

Wow, look at all that cheap labor! Great that your family members help out.

I'm a big fan of water based stuff (like Stewart Systems)where ever possible. The people who don't like it are generally people who ignored the instructions and applied techniques from legacy systems and got crabby at the results. Stewart Systems used to be in Washington (not too far from Geek), and attended Arlington every year. The planes they brought to show in their booth were beautifully covered.

Yup. The Stewart brothers who started the company still live close by. Really good guys who are willing to share their experiences.

10 ga is overkill for the pitot heat. You will probably have difficulty terminating that large of a wire. I think 14 ga is commonly used with a 15 A fuse or breaker.

Agree. 10ft of 14AWG will have ~0.025Ω of resistance. At the full 10A, you'll see 0.25V drop at the pitot tube. Insignificant.

10ft of 10AWG will have ~0.01Ω of resistance and 0.1V drop at 10A. It will weigh about 2.5 times as much as 14AWG.

These comments are right on Jason. I used 14ga on mine and it works perfectly as far as I can tell. I say that because the controller varies how much current actually goes to the heater based on OAT. I'd be really surprised to ever see the system ask for full current but even if it did, 14ga is good. While I don't expect to fly mine in that kind of cold where I need a lot of heat, my training was that if you flew into rain - turn on the pitot heat. Doesn't take a lot of heat to deal with the rain but still helps keep water out of the system.

Like Alex, I love how your kids are involved in the build. The time spent now are the memories you have later. Those are priceless.

Geek

Jason Murphy

08-15-2023, 12:22 PM

10 ga is overkill for the pitot heat. You will probably have difficulty terminating that large of a wire. I think 14 ga is commonly used with a 15 A fuse or breaker.

Yeah yeah yeah. They've always worked well for me as long as I don't ask them to do something they weren't designed for. Just kidding with you Harlan

Yup. The Stewart brothers who started the company still live close by. Really good guys who are willing to share their experiences.

These comments are right on Jason. I used 14ga on mine and it works perfectly as far as I can tell. I say that because the controller varies how much current actually goes to the heater based on OAT. I'd be really surprised to ever see the system ask for full current but even if it did, 14ga is good. While I don't expect to fly mine in that kind of cold where I need a lot of heat, my training was that if you flew into rain - turn on the pitot heat. Doesn't take a lot of heat to deal with the rain but still helps keep water out of the system.

Like Alex, I love how your kids are involved in the build. The time spent now are the memories you have later. Those are priceless.

Geek

Agree. 10ft of 14AWG will have ~0.025Ω of resistance. At the full 10A, you'll see 0.25V drop at the pitot tube. Insignificant.

10ft of 10AWG will have ~0.01Ω of resistance and 0.1V drop at 10A. It will weigh about 2.5 times as much as 14AWG.

I wanted to thank everyone for the incredible responses and discussion, I would like to discuss the topic a little further and gather additional thoughts from you.

For those of you who are running the 14 ga wire how are your routing the wire?

I have not actually measured the total length of the wire run but I estimate if you ran the wire down the spar tube and back to the pitot probe you would have at least 18 ft and that doesnt count running the wire through the cabin to the power source. P. 75 of the G3x install manual calls for 10 g wire for distances of 20 to 30 ft.

I purchased the unregulated pitot so unfortunately I do not have anything which would decrease the demand of the heater. Perhaps Stein would work with me on this and I could trade up.

Eric Page

08-15-2023, 02:16 PM

For those of you who are running the 14 ga wire how are your routing the wire?
Some of my wires go through the spars (wingtip lights, mostly), but some others for items mounted closer to the cabin went through a small gap between the spar tube and the fuel tank. I held them in place with small dabs of latex caulk. The wires are below flush and won't print through the fabric.

...I estimate if you ran the wire down the spar tube and back to the pitot probe you would have at least 18 ft and that doesnt count running the wire through the cabin to the power source. P. 75 of the G3x install manual calls for 10 g wire for distances of 20 to 30 ft.
If it's an unregulated heater, then Garmin probably wants 10AWG for longer runs because they rely on a minimum voltage across the fixed resistance of the heater to produce the promised heat output. Less voltage = less current = less heat. In the grand scheme of things, <1lb of extra wire in one wing isn't going to make your plane fly crooked! Whatever keeps Garmin's warranty department happy...

Are you building an IFR airplane?

Geek

08-15-2023, 02:45 PM

I wanted to thank everyone for the incredible responses and discussion, I would like to discuss the topic a little further and gather additional thoughts from you.

For those of you who are running the 14 ga wire how are your routing the wire?

I have not actually measured the total length of the wire run but I estimate if you ran the wire down the spar tube and back to the pitot probe you would have at least 18 ft and that doesnt count running the wire through the cabin to the power source. P. 75 of the G3x install manual calls for 10 g wire for distances of 20 to 30 ft.

I purchased the unregulated pitot so unfortunately I do not have anything which would decrease the demand of the heater. Perhaps Stein would work with me on this and I could trade up.

Hey Jason - I did not route my pitot wiring up to the spar and then down the spar due to the added length. Mine runs down to and then behind the fuel cell where it comes out very close to the rest of the wiring/pitot tubing that is running down the spar. So on mine it's not the 18 feet you were looking at. The real reason I went with 14ga is that the current draw vs temp is not 15 amps. (I also put a 15A breaker inline so the wiring is protected). Second part would be how cold is it where I am going to fly at? When it's freezing outside you will find me in front of the fireplace with a good book and a bourbon. But I did test it when the OAT here in WA was -12 degrees F this last Winter and my 15A breaker didn't pop and the probe was warming. To illustrate why I am not a big fan of the G3X install manual, the information on the actual current draw is Table 2-1 on page 2-16 (rev AT manual) and not where you were looking (but where you, me and everyone else would think it would be). Here's a mock up of the table (it didn't want to copy nicely on here)

"Table 2-1 GAP 26 Initial Current Draw vs Probe Temperature (-10, -20 units only)
Probe Temperature -40°C (-40°F) - 12A, 0°C (32°F) - 9.25A, 50°C (122°F) - 7.3A, 100°C (212°F) - 5.85A, 175°C (347°F) -4.36A
Notes (from the table in the manual)
Table 2-1 refers to probe temperature at initial turn-on. For example, upon turn-on at -40°C, the standard
(-10) or regulated (-20) heated probes will initially draw 12 amps, but will draw less current as they warm
up.
The -10 non-regulated probe draws current proportional to the probe temperature as shown in Table 2-1.
The -20 heated regulated probe uses similar power to the -10 probe when airborne, but will limit the
current to regulate the probe temperature to ~75°C (167°F) when the probe temperature reaches this
value."

So two takeaways for you from the table are that the 12A draw is start up current and not constant and the second is that you are probably OK with the -10 version probe. The -10 version does draw current proportional to the temp based on the temp. The -20 regulated version regulates the current based on actual probe temp. (If I had read this before I ordered mine I probably would have gotten the -10)

Keep up the great work Jason. Like following your build.

Gary

Jason Murphy

08-27-2023, 07:27 PM

It has been a minute since I have posted an update. I have been very busy working on multiple facets of the project over the past 2 to 3 weeks. This entry will be a little all over the place.

Before I do I would like to thank Gary and Eric for their responses. They were informative and contributed to the conversation.

I was able to find the chart you had mentioned in your response. I don’t think I would have ever looked in that section to find that information unless you had mentioned it.

Eric, I am considering making the airplane legal for IFR flight. The goal would not be for flying in any type of adverse weather but to remove barriers and increase safety over scud running if there were to be a low ceiling layer. In addition I could use use the airplane to maintain instrument currency.

I ordered the materials to begin covering with Stewart Systems. I also ordered an Air Compressor which should be able to handle operating the spray gun.

Since I am going for a little different look with my build I decided on ordering a 2 blade prop from Sensenich. I have not committed to a length at this time but I had ask on Facebook and was provided with an incredibly objective response supported with a research study suggesting 75” would have the best overall performance. I still need to review the research article and decide if it is applicable to my situation.

I have also found a new flight instructor to assist me with my initial CFI training and we have had several sessions in the last 2 weeks. I am glad to feel like I am making progress in that area of my life as well.

I am also making plans to attend the Reno Air Races. I plan on driving west and stopping in Homedale and exchanging my plain firewall for one that has been burnished by the factory. They use their CNC tooling and burnish the stainless prior to bending it to shape. This is an option that there is an additional charge for on the FWF kits but not something that’s published anywhere. An example is the firewall on Brandon’s airplane. So mid September I will be making my rounds through the Western US. Lots of new states for me. We have not figured out if I will be solo or have my wife and daughter with me.

Back to the build. There was not a lot of action here. The last few weeks have involved several sessions of fabricating new false ribs to replace the ones I had removed with the heat gun. I realize the ones which I had removed and had been slightly burnt were probably fine. In fact the dark roasted outside could be pretty easily sanded off. Regardless it made me feel better on the inside to drive to St Louis and get a sheet of 2.5mm aircraft grade Finnish Birch for $30 and time. I contacted Kitfox they quoted close to $1000 for a set of top and bottom ribs which was double of what I actually needed. I used my original factory ribs as a template and simply traced around them and finished cutting them out with a scroll saw.

To ensure and proper orientation I used a small carpenter square and bridged the cap strips of the ribs with a level. It may not be a perfect process but much more repeatable than using the calibrated eyeball.

Last night I finished up installing the bottom ribs. When I fabricated them I made them stand a little proud. Now I just need to use my sanding block and sand them down flush with the adjacent cap strips.

I still need to install the No 2 rib, false ribs under the wing tank, reinforce the No 1 rib and dress up the junction of the leading edge. I will also fill the low spots in the wing tank.

There are some odds and ends I need to do before covering but I am making lots of progress towards covering.

Jason Murphy

09-06-2023, 12:57 PM

Getting ready for a trip out west for the Reno Air Races. I plan to stop in at Homedale to exchange my plain firewall for a burnished firewall.

Applied a dollop of Superfil that had been thickened with micro balloons to the wing tank. Used levels to bridge the space between the No 1 and No 3 ribs. Used tongue depressors and index cards for spacers to match the contours of the adjacent ribs.

Applied extra superfil to the false ribs. Mixed another small batch and filled behind the antenna plate and the front of the vertical stabilizer.

I would be interested in hearing from other people areas they had filled or wish they had filled.

Jason Murphy

09-08-2023, 06:30 AM

Sanded the forward edge of the vertical stabilizer. I was concerned about how the weld bead would show through the fabric. I believe it blended in well with the Superfil body filler.

I also finished bonding the No 2 rib and sanded the transitions between the lower false ribs and the leading edge of the wing. I will need to return with my 3/8” rod and work on the sides.

After all the thought and planning regarding the heated pitot I decided that I didn’t want to go that route. I reached out to Stein Air and they will exchange it with an untested pitot. Realistically the cost savings will be chewed up by shipping. I will be packing it up and sending it back after I return from Reno. This will slightly simplify the build. I was also under good advice that I probably will never fly the thing in a situation I would actually need the anti ice / de ice capability and if I do things have seriously gone wrong.

bbs428

09-13-2023, 03:59 AM

You’ll be glad for the simplification of your build.
I think back to all the stuff I did or wanted to do and now that I’m flying, all the gizmos seem not that important.
If I were to build another Kitfox it would be a bare bones style VFR with a few steam gages and an I-fly.
Going with the streamlined metal wing strut would be a good upgrade as it’s handy to push and pull on when jockeying the aircraft around. The fairing’s over the tube lift-struts are fragile. Too bad it’s such an expensive upgrade!

Keep up the great work Jason!

Jason Murphy

11-21-2023, 10:49 PM

It has been a hot minute since working on the project. I have had a lot of irons in the fire keeping me away from the project.

I have been doing some organizing in my work area. I purchased a warehouse shelf to put things away on. I also purchased a 60 gallon Air Compressor rated for 13.2 CFM which I need to find a home for and get it hardwired in place, run some plumbing for the air lines and declutter the work space. This compressor should be adequate despite what the air compressor sales people claim who want to sell me an industrial unit. I will be borrowing a devilbiss spray gun which uses 14 to 15 CFM.

Received confirmation from the aircraft registration division that my special N Number I had requested has been reserved in my name.

I felt the urge today to at least get something done on the project.

I sat down and finished sanding the superfil creating the transition to my false ribs on the bottom side of my wing.

I moved onto prepping the underside of the wing tank to install the filler ribs on the bottom side of the wing tank. I have decided I am going to take the same strategy as I did the false ribs and cut them proud and sand them flush with the adjacent ribs.

I will need to add a touch of filler to the No 2 cap strip to bring it up to where it needs to be. I will recheck the left wing after this one is complete and see if it needs some additional loving which it undoubtedly will.

Geek

11-22-2023, 08:31 AM

Good to see you back at it Jason!!! You're doing great work.

Gary

Jason Murphy

11-22-2023, 07:41 PM

Thank You Gary! It’s good to be back!

I am hoping things will slow down a bit around the 20th of next month and I can go back to focusing on the project with another rating under my belt.

I saw in another thread a yaw dampener was released for the Model 7. I am hoping to integrate that into my current avionics kit. I need to spend some time catching up with my colleagues and see how their builds are progressing and get some good ideas while I am at it.

Jason Murphy

12-01-2023, 01:03 AM

Scarlett decided she was going to come visit while I worked on things. I have a terrible habit of distracting myself from my studies as my CFI Checkride approaches.

Regardless I worked on the false ribs beneath the wing tank, door joggles, and floorboards today.

Fit false ribs beneath wing tank.

Used dremel to trim back material on the false rib until it cleared wing tank.

Using index lines I had placed on the tank previously initially bonded false ribs to tank with Super Glue. Followed behind with a fillet of hysol.

I plan to sand these false ribs to match the contour of the adjacent ribs.

Door Frames Revisited: Used a straight edge to check how fabric will come off of the door frame joggle. The joggles protrude outwards. I gave the material some loving and massaged it in alignment with a straight edge running from the bottom tubes of the fuselage to the door joggle. I will need to revisit this step and make some adjustments to the door joggles. I also plan on splitting a 5/8” tube to provide a transition between the landing gear brackets and make that transition smooth.

Floor Board Tabs:

Earlier in the build I had made the decision to use tinnerman clips and sheet metal screws to attach the floorboards. There seems to be a great debate over the use of Rivnuts within the community. I would much rather use a machine screw over a sheet metal screw. I drilled holes that measure 0.200” A #6 Rivnut calls for a hole that is 0.189” from a #12 bit. I could not imagine 0.011” oversized hole could result in trouble especially if I were to have a secondary method of securing the Rivnut such as Hysol or the green sleeve locking compound used earlier in the build.

It seems that it is common place that the tabs on the floorboards are set below the tubing it is attached to. This results in bowing off the floorboards if they are snug.

I have been troubled by this situation for longer than I would like to admit and I have possibly developed a solution. If I were to use a Rivnut with a long grip and secure a stack of washers on top of the flange if it would be the least invasive way to bring the mounting surface up to flush. I would of course use an adhesive to protect against the dreaded spinning Rivnut.

I would appreciate anyone’s thoughts and feedback on this topic.

Geek

12-01-2023, 10:32 AM

I used the rivnuts all over the place. Installed them using the green sleeve locking and have had zero spins. I too saw the difference between the tab and the frame tube and after installing the rivnuts, I shimmed the floorboards using pieces of birch that I ripped on the table saw to the right thickness and used wood glue to attach them prior to varnish. You can see the two shims on the lower corners of the floorboard. In some places, the top of the rivnut took up the space between the tab and the frame. The head of the machine screw was just less than the diameter of the rivnut head so the whole grip on the board to the fuselage was done right there. No bowing of the floorboards and it is so nice to take those machine screws in and out (cause I wound up doing it a bunch). The floorboards don't need a major torque job done on them either so if you were to spin one of the rivnuts after using the green bearing lock and it's 7000 in/lbs shear rating, you're using your gorilla strength. Those screws just hold the floorboards down secure but there is no real load on those fasteners. For that reason, the tinnerman nuts would work just as well but like you, I like the machine screws for where I know I will be accessing those areas.

Just my 2 cents, opinions will vary. Greatly.

Gary

332333323433235

jiott

12-01-2023, 11:41 AM

Pushboy

12-01-2023, 12:48 PM

Gary— what’s the black material added to your floorboards?
And what do all the zip ties do?

Dave

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Jason Murphy

12-01-2023, 12:54 PM

Jason Murphy

12-01-2023, 01:00 PM

FWIW, I used tinnerman nuts with machine screws, not sheet metal screws. Tinnerman nuts are built to work with machine screws. The nice thing also about tinnerman nuts is they have a spring loaded grip so its like a self locking nut, so you don't have to torque them all the way down and bow the floorboards. They also can move around some to compensate for a poor lineup. Cheap and easy to replace if ever needed.

Thanks Jim, I have not tried using the tinnerman with a machine screw I may have to try that out. I have the tinnerman nuts in place I agree they are economical and easy to replace which is why I had originally went that route.

Jason Murphy

12-01-2023, 01:04 PM

Geek

12-02-2023, 07:19 AM

I am not so sure about the black material on his floorboards. I believe that he is using the zip ties as a secondary measure to secure the velcro which the carpet and seats from the Kitfox Upholstery Kit uses to keep the seats and carpet in place.

Thanks Gary, I will probably order some rivnuts from spruce and do some testing. Rivnuts defiantly have a clean appearance when they are installed. I purchased the Marson Riv Nut tool at the recommendation of a friend and I have lots of the Green Locktite used to install the bearings. What is the material you are using for a skid plate for your heels? I will be doing most of my own interior and I was probably going to skip carpets in lieu of the mahogony floorboards I cut.

I use the same Marson tool for my rivet installs. It works well BUT like all rivnuts, if you get a bit over-aggressive on trying to pull them real tight, they can/will strip. You get a feel for it after you have done a few and the Green Loctite is your friend.

The heel plates are .06 aluminum. Probably an overkill in thickness and weight but that's what I had. Your floorboards look really nice and with the heel plates, will visually turn out really nice I think. If I were doing it again and didn't have carpet, I might think of using .06 ABS sheeting instead of AL. Heels wouldn't wear through the color and take on an ugly look. But hey - that's just me.

You are correct about the zip ties. They are a secondary means to hold the Velcro. It's one of those Brandon suggestions in the interior install instructions.

Keep at it.

Gary

jrevens

12-02-2023, 03:56 PM

Jason Murphy

12-03-2023, 10:14 PM

I use the same Marson tool for my rivet installs. It works well BUT like all rivnuts, if you get a bit over-aggressive on trying to pull them real tight, they can/will strip. You get a feel for it after you have done a few and the Green Loctite is your friend.

The heel plates are .06 aluminum. Probably an overkill in thickness and weight but that's what I had. Your floorboards look really nice and with the heel plates, will visually turn out really nice I think. If I were doing it again and didn't have carpet, I might think of using .06 ABS sheeting instead of AL. Heels wouldn't wear through the color and take on an ugly look. But hey - that's just me.

You are correct about the zip ties. They are a secondary means to hold the Velcro. It's one of those Brandon suggestions in the interior install instructions.

Keep at it.

Gary

Thanks Gary, maybe the best route for me to take is to order a few extra and try them out and see how much I can abuse them before I try and put some in my fuselage. After I get the tool setup on the sideline put it to work doing the real work.

I have 0.020 I may be able to use. It may be a touch on the thin side but would be easy to work and I have an edge rolling tool that would put a very slight taper on them to keep the edges tacked down.

Jason Murphy

12-03-2023, 10:22 PM

Hi Jason,

I made some scuff plates for my floorboards out of 0.015" stainless steel shim stock. I think the material was "half-hard", so it is very durable & scratch-resistant, has a nice springy temper and cuts really cleanly & easily with smooth jaw hand shears. I put a "scuffed" finish on them with a scotch bright pad. After doing that I decided I really liked the look of the carpet from Kitfox, and ended up installing that.

Thanks John,

I will look into that material. The upholstery Kitfox sells does look pretty sharp. I am going to try and do my own with the goal of having an airplane that is unique and not quite like the rest. Admittedly I may have gotten in a little over my head on the upholstery side of the world.

I did meet a gentleman this year at the Reno Air Races who is now retired but did upholstery work for a living. I am hoping to lean on him and get some guidance when I get to that part of the project.

One benefit I can think carpet would offer is it would collect bits of dirt and debris which would otherwise work its way beneath the floorboards and possibly end up between the fabric and tubes.

Jason Murphy

12-03-2023, 10:34 PM

Please excuse the terrible lighting on the photo of the underside of the wing tank. Sanded the Superfil used to dress out the false ribs bonded to the wing tank.

Flipped the wing with the assistance of my son. Sanded the top surface of the wing tank smooth. There were many imperfections from what looked like dust settling in the resin as it had cured. This tank is in much better shape than my other tank. The scallops which were quite noticeable on my other wing tank was not there. The leading edge of the tank is dished out so I applied Superfil to the leading edge. I will use the leading edge template to guide my sanding efforts and create a nice smooth transition between the leading edge material and the wing tank.

the inboard side of the tank required special attention, the leading edge on the inboard side was about 3/8” tall vs 1/4” on the outboard side. Using 100 grit I gently sanded the leading edge of the inboard side down with the goal of creating a smoother transition. I sanded about 3/8 inch back and about 1/16 down. There was approximately 1/2” of tank material that was not disturbed to ensure the tank would not develop a leak.

jiott

12-04-2023, 12:25 PM

I'm not sure whether I should bring this up or not; maybe some others will say there is no problem. My concern is that the wing flexes a lot in flight and that is why Kitfox never had success with rigid aluminum tanks. That is also why they specify mounting the tanks to the spars with a flexible silicone non-hardening adhesive. I would be somewhat concerned in overriding this built-in flexibility by essentially gluing the tank leading edge to the front spar with SuperFill, which cures hard. Not sure if you are doing the same to the aft edge and rear spar. No problem with filling in low spots, roughness, fairing out the shape etc. but actually attaching to the spars could be a problem. Of course the new Series 7 uses the fiberglass Laker Leading Edge to cover the front tank to spar gap, so there is no issue as I describe. Someone who has done it successfully tell me I am predicting a tempest in a teapot.

Jason Murphy

12-04-2023, 03:00 PM

Jim, Thank you for the comment. You do make a very good point regarding the flex of the wing... I bet it would be best for me to sand down until I see the fiberglass of the wing tank where the leading edge of the tank joins the spar.

The goal was to fill those low spots and make a nice smooth transition from the leading edge to the upper camber. The tank of my left wing had large scallops between the baffles and I ended up doing the entire top. I did not put anything on the rear of the tank because I figured that the fabric may not even be touching that part of the wing tank.

Jason Murphy

02-01-2024, 10:44 PM

Once again it has been quite some time since I have been able to dedicate much time to the build.

Since my last posting I have received my flight instructor rating and I have started work on my CFII rating.

I have dedicated a lot of thought to the fitting my right wings flaperon. This evening I recruited my boys in assisting me with hanging the flaperon back on the right wing and taking measurements.

Using the No 3 rib as my Zero. The No 1 rib measures 35 1/2”. The No 5 rib measures 35 1/2” center to center. The No 7 rib measures 71” center to center. The No 9 rib measures 106 3/8” where it should measure 106 1/2. This falls within the tolerances outlined in p. 3 of the build manual.

I also have been working on a transition between the landing gear reinforcements at the bottom of the fuselage.

The tubing used on the fuselage is 1/2” with powder coating measures 0.515”.

5/8” tube with a wall thickness of 0.058” would have an internal diameter of 0.509 which should have a snug fit.

I also want to ensure there is plenty of fuselage tubing for the fabric to bond to when it is attached.

I cut a piece of 5/8 tubing in half using a pipe cutter. With any luck I will be able to use my pull saw and cut it lengthwise. I need one piece approximately 19 inches in length and the other approximately 7 inches in length. I asked the local machine shop if they could cut it for me and they wanted $150 to run it through their band saw. I am going to give it a try with my pull saw otherwise I can buy my own band saw for that price and have a band saw after I'm finished.

I will need to mix up some SuperFil and make some transitions between my false ribs and the leading edge. Then I plan on sealing all of the wood with epoxy varnish and paint the aluminum with epoxy primer. I will need to make a trip back to St Louis to pickup epoxy reducer. I had two cans and they both developed a leak. I retained the chemical but one had developed rust inside the container and contaminated the clear one.

I will also be pulling the other wing down and sanding all the false ribs down with my sanding block like I did on the right wing. Then sand all the sharp edges and seal similar to the right wing.

Jason Murphy

02-02-2024, 09:44 PM

Split 5/8” tube lengthwise

I plan to bond this to the lower longeron to streamline the landing gear bracing.

Jason Murphy

02-11-2024, 11:05 PM

Fit 5/8” tube which had been previously cut in half around tubing of fuselage. This was quite the challenge as the tubing of the longeron was bowed as well as large weld beads present.

Used popsicle sticks to ensure the tube was flush outboard as well as vertical.

Longeron and aluminum tube were prepped with scotchbrite and denatured alcohol. I filled the pipe with hysol for 100% bond with the longeron.

I will come back in with hysol and make a nice clean fillet at the joints and ensure water will be unable to get between the aluminum and the longeron. I will likely use some SuperFil to make a transition between the landing gear brackets and faring tube.

Jason Murphy

02-12-2024, 11:24 PM

Finished installing the split tubing along the longerons of the fuselage.

These will take the tiniest amount of SuperFil to blend all of the areas together.

I plan on revisiting my doorframes after this. I was advised by a very well informed builder that you should take a straight edge and run it from the door frame to the belly of the aircraft. You should tweak the door frames until they align with the straight edge.

Jason Murphy

03-23-2024, 08:45 PM

I committed to the decision that I was going to attempt to move the No 9 rib to make it just right. I was gently heated the Hysol using a solder iron and gently picked away the hysol.

This was an exceptionally tedious process but I did not want to disturb the hysol bond between the spar and the drag / anti drag tubes.

While sliding the rib over the top of the hysol which remained on the spar the shear web fractured at the thin point just above and below the rear spar.

I entertained the idea of following the guidance in AC43-13b and creating a doubler for the shear web but decided that it would be best since the area was easily accessible to simply replace the part with new.

A call of shame was made and additional parts were ordered

Jason Murphy

03-23-2024, 09:13 PM

I have been busy studying and training for a CFI-I rating so working on the airplane has been on the back burner.

The new parts arrived a while back. I ordered 2 new ribs, trailing edge, trailing edge reinforcements, and the appropriate rivets. I will fabricate new false ribs using an original factory rib as a template similar fashion to my earlier work.

Today actually went much easier than I thought it was going to. Using a coping saw the No 10 rib was cut away and the false ribs between No 9 and No 10 were cut away. The rivers heads of the stainless steel rivets were drilled out and the rivet shanks were knocked out using a center punch. The front of the No 9 rib was cut away and the No 9 rib removed.

Because the leading edge had been bonded on and dressed up I absolutely did not want to heat anything to remove the old materials. The spars were protected with tape and a dremel tool and flap wheel was used to remove the majority of the rib remnants. Then I finished cleaning up the old materials using a sanding block and 220 grit sandpaper.

Once again this was tedious work but I did not want to potentially disturb the bond of the leading edge. I worked through the day and into the evening and ran out of time to bond the new No 9 and No 10 ribs into place. I have made that mistake of trying to bond something in place and thinking everything was secure and walking away and I come back and it’s wonky.

The wing had been moved out of the basement to the living room because the floors are level. Before I bond the ribs into place I am doing to setup my wing jigs aka precision saw horses ensure they are level and square per directions in the wing assembly supplement to ensure everything is just right. I realize that 8 of the ribs are not disturbed and I could probably bond these ribs in place without taking these extra steps but this makes me feel better about the quality of work performed.

Regardless I have ran out of time in the day and so the wing will be living upstairs this week. My wife is going to be thrilled.

bbs428

03-24-2024, 01:57 AM

Good to see you moving forward. Bummer on that rib fracture, sometimes it's slow going. Keep your eyes on the prize!

"Regardless I have ran out of time in the day and so the wing will be living upstairs this week. My wife is going to be thrilled."

I, and many others understand all too well! :)

Geek

03-24-2024, 05:21 AM

A call of shame was made and additional parts were ordered

Sorry to hear that this happened. Especially to one who has been so meticulous. But consider your 'call of shame' to be the right of passage into just another of the long list of exclusive clubs (with oh so many members) that builders have the opportunity to join. It does provide us the opportunity to develop our empathy skills does it not?

Keep on it Jason and good on the wife for understanding the need to have the wing where you can perform your normal excellent work.

Gary

Jason Murphy

03-25-2024, 08:38 PM

Hung flaperon on wing. Made sure that the hangar for the No 9 rib was aligned with the rib.

Located and bonded No 9 rib in place.

When things were looking up my terrible luck reared its ugly head again. The dog tried to jump on our couch and she didn't quite make it. On her fall to the floor she caught the trailing edge of the flaperon and put a good ding in the leading edge of the slots that had been cut for the hinges.

Used dremel to remove excess hysol from the outboard side of the no 10 rib to provide more edge margin to both the aluminum strip and cap strip. Match drilled the No 10 rib with the aluminum strips that had been fitted to the old No 10 that had been cut away.

Locate No 10 rib. I plan on bonding the rib in place tomorrow evening and to look for good ways to repair the damage to the flaperon. I was thinking order some monel rivets that hold the balance weights on and bonding and riveting a doubler in place. Then making the opposite side match.

For some reason I am unable to attach my images. Click link for images.

https://eaabuilderslog.org/?s=ShowMeFox

Eric Page

03-25-2024, 09:04 PM

Jason Murphy

03-28-2024, 08:10 PM

Jason, you're not the first guy to have damaged flaperon hinge slots. Mine were a terrible mess when I bought my kit. Based on some ideas from others on this forum, I drew up some skin repair patches and had them laser cut.

See this post (https://teamkitfox.com/Forums/threads/4445-Repairing-flaperons?p=96907&viewfull=1#post96907) and the posts that follow. I still have some of the patches left; if you need one or more, let me know.

Eric, Thank You for the offer. I may take you up on that. Your flaperon was definitely buggered up a bit worse than mine was. I will probably take you up on your offer. I am still doing some brainstorming on the issue and gathering ideas. I do like how yours turned out.

Jason Murphy

03-28-2024, 08:26 PM

No 9 and No 10 are back in place. I am still needing to fabricate some false ribs and clean up the reinforcements for the No 10 rib.

My middle son was home from school on spring break. I asked if he wanted to help and he applied some Hysol. Waited an hour and did the usual sculpting making a nice looking fillet. This time I left some room between the spar and cap strip on the outboard side of No 10 to allow the aluminum strip to slide in.

Cleaned up the trailing edge of the rib to bond a new trailing edge back on.

After the adhesive was good and setup the wife gave me the boot and my project and I were banished to the basement.

Once again I tried to upload pictures but was unable. Is anyone else having trouble with this. I am using an iPhone.

Again photos are here https://eaabuilderslog.org/?s=ShowMeFox

alexM

03-28-2024, 10:20 PM

I have a stack of surplus false ribs.

Jason Murphy

04-07-2024, 11:16 PM

Did some reorganizing of my work area to make some more work space. Scarlett decided she was going to come help.

Cleaned up and match drilled end rib braces to ribs. Bond and rivet using the clean, prep, bond, rivet sequence outlined in the manual. Used a small dremel tool to clear the tiny bead of hysol which prevents a flush bond with the shear web of the rib. This hysol will be replaced when I bond the rib brace to the rib.

Cut some new false ribs using an original rib as a template. Clean and prep once again. Measure and place false ribs. The rib bay is divided into 3 equal sections. Index marks are made with a sharpie. Individual ribs are straightened using a 4? level as a straight edge.

By this time I have really perfected placing them in there square. Using a 4? level to bridge the ribs and a square the false ribs are placed perpendicular to the spars. Using an adjustable square you can drop the straight edge to the opposite side of the wing to ensure alignment.

Again pulling from other areas of the manual the false ribs are bonded with a dot of super glue to temporarily hold them in place. Hysol is then used to securely bond the false ribs into place.

I am now back to where I was before my last oops. However I am in a better place.

I am curious to see if replacing the rib will mean the flaperon brackets won't align. We will dry fit and check it out.

Used a sanding block to square up the leading edge extrusion with the end of the wing spar. I am wondering if this would be a good time to fit my wintips.

Not sure why I am still having trouble uploading images. See the link to my EAA Build log for images. Anyone else have trouble doing this with an iPhone and Safari?

Eric Page

04-08-2024, 09:02 AM

Geek

04-08-2024, 12:53 PM

Yeah, uploading photos from an iPhone was a nightmare for me too. I email them to myself as a means to transfer them to my Windows PC, then I upload to the forum from there. I'm storing all my build photos on my PC anyway to avoid getting "buy more cloud storage" messages from Apple, so it doesn't really add any work for me.

Funny. I do exactly the same thing for exactly the same reason. The iPhone just does not like to upload photos. It will attach them to email nicely but download is another story.

G

Jason Murphy

04-11-2024, 10:56 PM

Received a call from the DPE, CFI-I check ride will be rescheduled he accidentally double booked himself. I decided to take a break and work on the plane instead. Multi Engine training begins next Thursday.

Prior to starting I spoke with another builder who has the Hoerner Style wing tip seeking advice or lessons learned while they had fitted their wingtip. I was advised to fit the wingtips before covering. Clamp straight edges to the wing to assist in alignment. Trim only the top first. Drill some temporary holes and cleco in place. If needed these holes can be patched later. After getting the top just right clamp and mark the bottom. Trim up the bottom rinse and repeat. It will take several fitting sessions to get things right. Then turn your focus to the trailing edge. Using a straight edge mark and trim.

Dry fit wing tip onto right wing using clamps. Noted interference of the forward spar tube with the wing tip. Used an 8 ft level as a straight edge placed across the top of the wing ribs. It appears I will need to compensate for a slight droop.

Dressed up the end of the spar tube to eliminate interference. Dry fit wingtip using clamps again. I am starting to get the feeling this will be another exceptionally tedious task if I am going to make this look right.

Following the advice received earlier in the day I will need to trim the topside first. I am thinking I could layout a pattern on the aluminum strip and drill No 40 pilot holes. After I get things trimmed, sanded, and fit I can use my angle drill attachment to back drill / match drill the wingtip from the inside. This would ensure I have proper edge margin on the aluminum. I would then bring the holes up to full size.

I am also wondering if the wingtip would benefit from using a countersunk washer and countersunk flat head screw to hold it in place. I believe the pressure would be better distributed but this may require a slightly wider aluminum strip to serve as the wingtip attachment point. I am open to feedback and suggestions.

Pictures to follow or click the link

https://eaabuilderslog.org/?s=ShowMeFox