Model IV-XL?

[nefj40]

There's a IV-XL on barnstormers that I've been eyeballing. But I haven't been able to find any real info on what the differences are between the Classic and XL. A 503 on the front is all? Or is there major structural differences, lite weight fabric, etc? This isn't something I cared to bother John and Debra about, I'm sure they're busy enough, but I'd like to know a little more before going any further in the decision making proccess.

Dave

[t j]

Dave, there are differing opinions out there on this. Here's some measurements from a Classic 4. The tubing of the wing struts, landing gear vertical tubes, and fuselage spar and wing strut carry through are all 1" outside diameter. The rudder is 53" tall.

If the XL has these same measurements it is a 1200 pound maximum gross weight airframe and the 1050 gross on the XL is a power limitation of the 503 only.

The XL was intended to be built light. One thing is they only called for two top false ribs in each bay between the main wing ribs and probably no bottom false ribs were installed.

For what it's worth, I purchased my Classic 4 in 1994. I wanted an XL but when I went to tour the factory in May that year they told me the XL had been discontinued and that the classic 4 was the same airframe and I could have it with a 503 for the same old XL price. Since then several people have told me they are not the same fuselage. Maybe Mine isin't a classic 4 and I am full of BS. So there you have it. They are the same but different is what I tell people now.

[SkyPirate]

I believe the XL is/was intended to be an ultralight trainer

[av8rps]

Going by memory here....

Avid and Kitfox both decided to offer bare bones versions of their 582 powered Model 4 / Mark IV kits, powered with the less expensive 503. The bare bones versions were nothing more than less optioned kits of their standard airframe at the time. They lowered the gross weight capabilities due to the lower horsepower 503 vs the 582 that would normally be installed. So if you put a 582 in your Kitfox XL or Avid Bandit you essentially had the regular Kitfox or Avid (sans a few items like large gas tanks, interiors, trim, etc).

I have info on the XL somewhere in my stuff here, so if we get in dispute over any of this I can always try to look it up. But I think what I'm explaining here is pretty accurate.

Paul S
Wisconsin
M4-1200 amphib
M4-1050 soon to be "Super Speedster"

[SkyPirate]

av8rps,..if you do find it ,..please do post it here ..

Chase

[av8rps]

I'll start digging for it.

Paul

[DesertFox4]

Some promised XL articles from Paul S.
928

929

[DesertFox4]

Another XL article courtesy of Av8rps.
Windows users can zoom in holding the ctrl button down and then hitting the + button. When finished zoom back out holding ctrl and - button. I think.
930

931

[t j]

Thanks for posting the XL articles. I have wondered what exactly the XL airframe consisted of since it was introduced. As I posted above I wanted one but they discontinued it before I had a chance to order one. They even shipped the demonstrator to France before I made a trip to the factory to see it.

This is the first time I have seen the Maximum Gross weight of 950 pounds published. The vertical fin and rudder in the pictures I am pretty sure is not the 53 inch tall rudder the Classic 4 has either but I could be mistaken on that.

I am still wondering. At 950 gross weight and 39 inches shoulder to shoulder, is it a model 3 fuselage with model 4 wings?