Runway, How Long is long enough?

[cory mcc]

I am considering buying a kit fox and would like to get some real world info. Can someone tell me what their experience is on how long of a runway you really need. I have a piece of property that could accommodate a 1000ft strip easily and with more effort (more fill and money) 1250ft. On one end there are power lines about 30 ft high, and on the other end it is clear scrub land with no obstructions and an easy approach. The elevation of my property is around 900ft above sea level. The strip would run basically East-West with the scrub land on the east end, the prevailing winds are from the North-West. I will probalby consider getting amfib floats in the future because there are lake's everywere in my part of the country.

Thanks for any info you might have.

[Slyfox]

It all depends on you. How does the wind run with relation to the power lines, does the wind favor using entry over the power lines over the other direction. You can drag it over the field and than settle on the runway and make the 1000' work just fine. Now if you need to fly in from the power lines, that can be a problem. I would spend the money and have the power lines buried for the approach on that end.

[Av8r3400]

I have a strip on my property that is 1000' long oriented at about 25/07.

With (mostly) clear approaches it is a little short for my current skill level (~50 hours in my KF). To do it I will have to make a near perfect approach on the numbers every time. I'm getting pretty consistent on the grass strip at the airport getting down and stopped in less than 600' (power off), but that's not good enough for my comfort level, yet.

You can come in very short with these planes by hanging the plane on the prop way behind the curve and get down and stopped in a couple of hundred feet, but that is not my preference to do this unless totally necessary.

What model plane is yours? The I-III will come in slower due to the undercambered wing, but the IV-SS is a little faster on approach.

[cory mcc]

The power lines run due north and the prevailing wind's are form the north west. The wind's in my opinion favors entry over the open scrub land to the east. The power line's are not the only issue on the west end of the runway, The lines are on the property line and my neighbor has a forest on that part of his land.

[SkyPirate]

being that the plane will be new to you,..I'd find a local airport close that you can use until your proficient,..and practice ,practice ,practice,..once you've got it down with just you in the plane ,..now find a co pilot and practice more.
It will depend on the individual as to how quick he or she get's the STOL operation down.
not saying you couldn't do it first time out ,..but you got an investment there ,..no need in putting yourself and the plane in a situation where the end result is other then favorable,..1000 foot will be plenty of room with experience,..and from what you wrote ,..you are basically no obstruction on the approach end,..that's 1/2 your battle won already.

just a thought ,.on the west end of your proposed strip ,..is there and area you could clear to turn north in a worse case scenario?
landing into a box is OK ,..but I like an out ,..for the just incase situations .

Chase

[Ron S]

My strip is about 1200 feet with a low powerline on one end and tall trees on the other. When I was new to the Kitfox I used to kill the engine on final for short landings (being a glider pilot helps). Now use side slips unless there is a strong headwind.
Ron

[Slyfox]

If you don't like the idea of killing the engine. You can do what I do. I have the rotax and I lowered the idle to below minimum. On the ground(which I don't do) it will idle around 500rpm. But in the air, you can pull the idle all the way back and really put in some air brake, If you have the IVO inflight this works really well. I took the 1800rpm idle and backed off each screw 1/2 turn and it made it perfect. Of course you really need to be aware of things when landing, after touch down you need to make sure your idle is 1800. I love it. Another benifit is shut down, you pull the throttle all the way back and kill the mags. One more benifit, if you happen to get a kick back on start up, pull the throttle all the way back, hit the starter and slowely put in throttle, starts right up with no kick.

this is one reason I don't have an off airport landing strip. There are many others. Like who is going to maintain the strip. What a pain on that one. What are you going to do when it snows, look outside and wish you could fly. what are you going to do when other pilots start using your field for their fun. What if someone else lands and crashes, or takes off and hits the power pole. Lots of what ifs. I like mine at the local airport with no responsibility. Best of all they (the airport) maintain the runway.

[SkyPirate]

I've owned 2 pieces of property that had their own runways on them,....if your building the runway and must first clear it,..meaning it's wooded. call around to the different mills/wood processors in the area,..find out what tree's are making good profit ..what tree's aren't,.see if the tree's on your property are in the "making money" realm..now this all takes time and some serious thought into picking the right outfit to clear the lot,..but if you've done the homework ..you can end up with a strip,..and enough cash to build a hangar for the plane on that strip,and a small tractor with a brush hog to mow it...
I look at it this way ..what's it worth to you?,..not just in the cost..your time,..when you want to fly ..you hook up to the trailer ..take the plane to the airport .set it up..fly .land,..break it down ..back to the house and in the garage,..sounds simple enough,.or you walk out of the house in the morning sun,..with your cup of coffee ,,taking in the morning air ..suddenly ( a look of surprize ) you get the idea ..hey ..let's go flying~! it's a matter of 5 minutes later your buzzing down the strip headed for the wild blue yonder ,..or 2 hours later your finally on the airport and ready to fly,..or you pay hangar fee's to keep the plane at ther airport,..as with any hobbie ..sport ,,etc..

it will cost you one way or the other.
I always mowed my runway when the weather wasn't quite right for flying,..
I've also worked at 2 airports one was an FBO GFW at Biore field nashua NH,.the other one was maintaining the grounds,.Parlin Field Newport NH. which I did for free,..because it needed to be done,..mowing a 1000 foot field takes about 2.5 hours with a brush hog ,..that's mowing it 100 foot wide x 1000 foot long plus minus

what it boils down to is personal preference,..what fits your life style best ,..me I am using the road in front of my house for a runway ..and yes I have to maintain the road too it's a private road,.I maintain a mile of it.

[cory mcc]

The more I think about it the inconvenience of driving to the local airport (about 12Km) is not a big deal compared to the large amount of work to set up and maintain my own strip, not to mention liability. That is one of the biggest pluses of the Kitfox the fact that you can put it on a trailer. Plus the runway at the Sudbury airport (YSB) is 6000 feet long and that leaves a lot of margin for error.

[Slyfox]

there is a lot to say about the airport. I drive there in about 5 minutes. I swing open the doors and pull out the plane. I drive my vehicle into the hangar and shut it. That's all I have to do. I feel spoiled. If that ain't enough, a sweet voice from the female controller gets on the radio and makes it even better. Of course I fly very day sometimes twice. So all this makes a lot of sense to me. It would be real nice to have a road out front my house to land on once in a while.

[SkyPirate]

aww ..you can borrow my road any day Steve just be prepared,.. you need to land uphill 20% grade,watch out for the power lines.., 4 wheelers.,,horse back riders and the UPS man other then that,.get to the top of the hill ,..I'm on the left

it will make a bush pilot out of you quick

Chase

[avidflyer]

I have my own strip that is about 1450' long with trees on the ends. I fly my Jabiru powered Avid MK IV from it all the time. I also have a real light Avid B model with a 532 rotax that is kindof in storage now that I have the MK IV flying again. Started out flying ultralights from the field after I compleated it about 7 years ago, and Avids about 5 years ago. My Avid with the Jabiru doesn't get off the ground as fast as a lot of Kitfoxes or the B would, and I don't fly anyone else with me from my field, but probably could, I just don't want to take the chance of not clearing the trees. The B model is usually at least 200' high at the end of the strip as it's rate of climb is almost twice what the Jab powered MK IV does. It is really nice though to be able to go flying on a moments notice. Sure it's a bit of work to mow, but I have a trailing mower that I pull with the lawn tractor and so I get about 6.5' of cut per pass so it's not to bad. Being retired helps to. It is really nice haveing the plane right there to putz with also. I'm always tinkering with something on them. As far as your question about your location for a strip, my B avid would work on the 1000' strip and the MK IV would work on the 1250' distance for clearing the powerlines and trees. Takeoff toward the open land wouldn't be a problem with either plane with 1000', landing over the powerlines the 1250 would be better, but either way or distance, have a spot picked out where if you're not down and rolling out you pour the coals to it and go around for another try. If it was my land, I would have a strip on it. Take care, Jim Chuk

[SkyPirate]

well good on you mn ben ..just shows all those hours you got flying your kitfox paid off ,..we are talking a potential zero time kitfox pilot here

[avidflyer]

If you have clear aproaches, 1000' should be plenty, but he said he has powerlines and trees on the one end. How much field gets used up clearing the trees and then loosing the altitude that involved? Maybe now he only has 500' left. Maybe he's a bit fast and so he floats a bit further....... As far as taking off and clearing the trees, if you normally just make it by a little bit, one day your won't quite make it and then the fun is over for that day. Take care, Jim Chuk

[Av8r3400]

If your model IV is made light with a 582 say 500#, maybe you will be off in 250'. But most are not light, my yellow plane is a fat 650# empty, without my fat butt in it.

On the grass strip at my airport, I can break ground at ~400' and clear the fictional 50' obstacle in maybe 600-650'. That would make clearing a power line from a 1000' strip a mighty close affair. Possible, but not comfortable.

Approaching to land is even more touchy. Every 20' of altitude over the fence will easily cause the use of 100' of runway. Over a power line, that will use at least 200' of runway, now you are down to 800', knock off 200' for the trees at the other end and you have 600' of "real" runway. At my best I can do it in ~400' on the grass at the airport. Now factor in a little fast from diving down past the lines and you are in the trees.

Again, doable, but way too close for comfort for most people.