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Geek
03-31-2021, 06:44 PM
I received my kit special delivery from Heather and Brandon a month ago. Did the normal inventory and then started on the wings. Like SomeDay7, I think I want to get the wings dialed in and then be able to work the fuselage during the Winter months. I bought the pre-built wings along with the pre-rigging based on comments here on the forum saying it was so worth the money. I am at the point where I am going to be installing the Rib #1 stack and the butt rib after a lot of varnishing. Hence not any pics of that since I think varnishing is like watching grass grow. I wanted to do the leveling of the fuselage outside in front of the shop but it's not a level pad. So I did some looking here on the forum and Northof49 (Mike from Canada) had this great platform with scissor jacks. Then I saw that the scissor jacks were on sale at Harbor Freight Aircraft Supply Company so I pressed ahead and copied Mike's idea based on his pics. Next is to add something to bring the tail up to do the final leveling.

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Will try and keep up with this on my progress and such. I also have a build log on the EAA site. I am trying to be good at keeping that on up since I plan on using that when I get to the part where I need to show the DAR that I really did build this. Here's the link to that site. https://eaabuilderslog.org?s=Geek (https://eaabuilderslog.org?s=Geek)

airlina
04-01-2021, 03:10 AM
Gary, If you get 4 friends (one on each jack) to quickly work the jacks you will have the very first Kitfox simulator! Sorry couldn't help it after seeing your post. enjoy the build, Bruce N199CL

Geek
04-03-2021, 05:52 PM
Added in the second and third piece of the Rib 1 stack on the left wing. Came out pretty well I think. Had some HYSOL left and so I did the flaperon doublers on ribs 5, 7 and 9. Now it's time to put the left wing back on the rotisserie and do the same work on the right wing.

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Shadowrider
04-03-2021, 08:52 PM
Did you glue the 1 rib stack on when the wing was on the fuselage?

Geek
04-03-2021, 09:25 PM
I didn't. I got the pre-rigged wings and set the 1 rib stack at the 35 1/2 inches from the 3rd rib. Reading the directions it didn't look like I needed to set the wings on till after the 1 rib stack to check the rigging again and set up the butt rib. Am I setting myself up for a problem?

G

Shadowrider
04-03-2021, 09:47 PM
Apparently they have not updated their instructions......frustrating!! Hopefully you can fit your wings onto the fuselage because if the spars got moved at all they will not fit. What you don't realize is there is a slight amount of flex in the spar. I would test fit your wings to make sure they fit. If you have not done the other side, I would have the wings on the fuselage before gluing the 1 rib in place. On my brothers we had to surgically remove the 1 rib on one wing. The other wing was fine.

Geek
04-04-2021, 06:45 AM
Well I guess I know what I will be doing today. I have not done the other side so there is the good news there. If the wing flexed and doesn't fit I don't think frustrating is the word I might choose. Might be coming back to you on some recommended 'surgery' suggestions.

Shadowrider
04-04-2021, 06:57 AM
Fingers crossed!!! If not I can let you know what we did to remove the #1 Rib.

Geek
04-04-2021, 11:28 AM
Good news! The ruler said that the spar had not flexed but being a firm believer in "Trust but verify", the wife and I went out and hung the left wing. Fit just like it was supposed to. But now as I start on fitting the 1 rib stack to the right wing, I am making the plans in my head that will allow me to final assemble that one while hung. Not sure why your brother's spars flexed and yours (and thankfully mine) didn't but I sure as heck am not going to take this opportunity to Hysol the assembly up with the wing not hung and find out.

Dustin I really appreciate you jumping in like you did. Even if it could have been bad news. If you see me doing something wrong or have a better idea of how to do it (cause you did do a kind of OK job on your plane. Just kinda though (joking for certain!!)) please feel free to jump in.

Gary

Shadowrider
04-04-2021, 01:15 PM
That’s great news! I think my brothers rib was a little too tight so when he slid it on it pulled just ever so slightly enough to cause it to flex and not fit. Didn’t realize it until it was glued in place. It was some serious brain damage to fix so I am happy for you that you don’t have to go through that. Good job and keep moving forward!

Geek
04-05-2021, 03:10 PM
Took Dustin's inputs to heart and got ready to do the rib 1 stack on the right wing. Figured I may have ducked the bullet on the left one and wasn't going to take the chance of learning the hard way. So I spent yesterday coming up with the supports required to hang one wing without the whole thing tipping over. Made two stands, notched the ribs of the stack for attachment and today, hung the right wing on the fuselage and Hysol'd in the first rib of the stack. I'll sleep better tonight I think knowing the spars are flexed and it fits up.

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Shadowrider
04-06-2021, 07:08 AM
Looking good! Glad it all worked out. We did the same thing and you will use your jig down the road to support one wing. I lost track how many times a wing went on and off.

Geek
04-12-2021, 05:15 PM
Worked on the false ribs installation and mounted the left wing onto the fuselage to fit the butt rib. Got it all dialed in and then pulled the butt rib off so I can do the rest of the work to get it ready for final install. Plan to Hysol the false ribs and the aluminum strip on the butt rib tomorrow as well as mount the right wing and start the right butt rib fitment. I am certainly not Speed Racer on this. Spent a lot of time measuring three times so I only had to cut, drill and cleco once.

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Kitfox Pilot
04-14-2021, 04:47 AM
I too spend lots of times measuring so hopefully I only cut once. Your build is looking good!

Geek
04-14-2021, 08:14 AM
Thanks Harlan. Between your build and Dustin's I spend a lot of time checking your logs out to see if what you did is what I am thinking I should do after reading the directions.

G

Geek
04-18-2021, 07:23 AM
Got a little more done. I had questions on the jury strut install instructions which held me up a bit. Didn't want to mess up so early in the build. I got the answers from a couple people here on the forum and from Brandon which alleviated the issue and was able to press on. Got both jury struts installed, figured out where and how to mount the magnetometer and pitot tube, and am going to pull the wings back off (mostly to get my shop back to its normal set up and the Jeep back inside). Thanks again to all who chimed in on the instruction question I had.

Gary

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Geek
04-24-2021, 04:36 PM
Have been working on the mounts in the left wing for the pitot tube (heated), thermostat for the pitot tube, OAT, and Magnetometer. When my wings were on the fuselage and leveled, I made a reference line on the left wing tip that was level as well so I could put the wing back into the level flight condition when it was on the rotisserie. In one pic you can see the stick that is clamped on that line so I can set my level on it to dial that in. I made the magnetometer mount so I could slide the magnetometer in and out relatively easy and see how many clamps I could use to glue up the frame. The reason I made it a bit long was to be able to support the connector going to the magnetometer since it's a bit long with the CANBUS termination attached. The OAT mount is set up so that the mount sets in between those sides so I can tighten (and later check to be sure it's still tight) without having to go inside the wing. The aluminum strip is there so I can ground it since the Garmin install says they like the sensor to sit on metal. I'll start epoxying all the parts tomorrow.
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Geek
04-30-2021, 05:56 PM
Today was spent finishing up the varnishing of the mounts for the magnetometer, pitot tube, pitot tube controller and the OAT probe. Also sloshed out the fuel tanks with acetone and gas as the factory says to. Was not looking forward to that job. Tried it the first time using green tape to seal off the fill port as suggested in the sheet attached to the tank and that was an epic fail. Acetone and fuel leaked all over. Figured out a way to seal off the filling port on the tanks. Used the top of a spray can of paint, trimmed the outside down to about a half inch from the top, put a rubber gasket inside it and taped it down to the filler using electrical tape. Worked perfectly. Also note the two holes in the top to act as a vent. The acetone and gas build up quite the pressure when mixed. I drilled 2 #30 holes in the top and when I sloshed near the filler, I just put my finger over it. When I was sloshing elsewhere, I left it open and you could hear the air coming out. Near the end of the third go, I got a little help from one of the locals here.


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Geek
05-14-2021, 10:32 AM
Finally got time to get back to the plane. I admit I was not looking forward to this part (sort of like sloshing the fuel tanks) because it could be pretty messy. But I got the spars primed internally using the slosh method and tennis balls wrapped in plastic. That tip was perfect. They didn't leak at all. Also found that after we (had my lovely assistant helping) were done sloshing the paint around inside and draining the major portion of what was left in each spar, we put a small cup that I normally use for mixing Hysol over the ends to contain the slow dripping. Worked perfectly. I also did the cut out on the inside rib of the #1 rib stack to clear the fuel tank out feed. You can see the cut out the factory did on the outside rib of the stack but I liked the opening I did on the inside which took out that sharp point.

Geek
05-20-2021, 03:56 PM
Waiting for some parts I want for the fuel tank install so I am in a slow hold short. Going to try a different banjo fitting that transitions to an AN6 connection rather than a barbed hose. My thought was to use PFTE hose rather than the fuel line included in the kit. Had read a couple threads saying that they had to replace that line later due to a light smell of fuel in the cockpit. Once I get those parts I'll be on it again.

When I was waiting for my kit, I was going through other build logs looking for good ideas and such. One of the ideas I liked was from John Evens and his blocks on the base of the rudder pedals to help keep from inadvertently applying brakes. Long as he kept his heels on the floor. So today I added them to my rudder pedals to see how I like them. Certainly not permanent but if they help then it's a good thing. Thanks for the idea here John.
Gary

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jrevens
05-20-2021, 11:02 PM
Those look really nice Gary! I’m sure others had done similar things well before I did that. It was one of the best mods I did to improve the Kitfox for me, especially with my long legs.

Kitfox Pilot
05-21-2021, 05:23 AM
Gary, I have been sitting in my plane with legs bent a little thinking I need to do something like that myself to stay off the brakes. It would be very easy if the factory pedals had room for another hole for the brake cylinders. I like yours. How far behind on shipping those are you?? https://teamkitfox.com/Forums/images/icons/icon12.png Haha

Geek
05-21-2021, 07:00 AM
Harlan I do have a piece of Delrin left over from the piece I made them from that is enough to make four more. Yours if you want it.

Gary

Kitfox Pilot
05-21-2021, 03:39 PM
Thank you Gary!

efwd
05-22-2021, 09:14 AM
I wonder if some adjustment in geometry on the pedal is in order. Even us short leg peeps have issue in this regard. On account of having adjustable pedals, as the pedals come aft to meet my feet, the angle of the pedal changes such that the problem presents itself for us short legged pilots as well. I have noticed I have applied the brakes on takeoff before. I will likely be applying this mod as well.

Kitfox Pilot
05-22-2021, 05:56 PM
IMO Eddie the hole that mounts the brake cylinder needs moved up on the pedal or the pedal pivot point moved down. If there was any metal higher it would be a simple fix by just moving the hole but there is no extra above the current hole so it would have to be added.
The easy way is to add a piece as Gary has done. I may fix the pedal someday but I want to fly asap now so I will add the bottom piece as shown.

airlina
05-23-2021, 02:49 AM
Also very important when you start flying your new Kitfox to make this a part of your briefing to passengers as well. Very easy for them to unconsciously apply brake pressure that you won't know about. Before every landing with a passenger , important to ask "feet off the pedals?" Bruce N199CL

Mark123
05-24-2021, 09:47 AM
Excellent advice!

Geek
05-28-2021, 07:50 PM
Finally reached a point to get back to making some real progress on the build. Part of my issue was that I wasn't impressed with the way the banjo fitting interfaced with the #1 rib and didn't like the rubber hose and hose clamp interface. So I ordered some parts to basically assess options I might have. I ordered a different type of banjo fitting and decided that the fuel lines would be better off using AN6 PFTE hose and fittings. So while waiting (I'm not good at waiting by the by) I fabricated the butt rib close out plates and the plates for the fuel gauge. I also purchased some carbon fiber arrow shafts to glue into the trailing edge of the wings to help stiffen them rather than the aluminum tubing suggested in the manual. Had to paint the shafts due to the galvanic corrosion that occurs between the aluminum and the fiber.

After receiving the parts and looking at how the 'new' banjo fitting interfaced, I decided to go with the one from Kitfox as it fit better once you got the ribs trimmed. I liked the new banjo fitting's use of an allen wrench to tighten it but it was just a bit too fat both in width and diameter. Would have taken some additional trimming on the rib and I just didn't want to go there. I am still going to use the PFTE hose and transition the banjo fitting over to AN6 fittings. The good news is that now that I was able to see how things were going to work, I was able to actually glue in the fuel tanks. Tomorrow I can start making some better progress and work on installing the #2 rib along with the false ribs.

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jrevens
05-28-2021, 08:42 PM
Gary,

I don’t have the STi wing, so there may be some differences from what I found with my standard wing. I considered using the SS braided PTFE hose also, but decided not to because of the considerably greater flexibility of the quality rubber fuel line that I did use. It put much less strain on everything, especially considering that I wanted to be able to fold the wings. No doubt you’ve already considered this, but make sure you determine how those hose sections have to move and slide against things when folding. I used teflon hose from my header tank up to shut-off valves for each tank, then came out of the valves with relatively short sections of the rubber hose. The possible abrasive effect of the braided sheath was also considered. Just thought I’d mention that.

Geek
05-29-2021, 05:52 AM
Thanks John. I think the transition between the wing on the STi and the SS are pretty much the same. I did think about the flex (or somewhat lack of when using PTFE) and my thought was to use the quality rubber for the area of the wing fold and then go to the PTFE. The rubber would be only in the fuselage for maybe the first foot or so to a shut off valve for the tank and then PTFE down to the header tank. So most of the line inside would be PTFE. With the exception of the barb fitting on the banjo the rest of the connections will be all AN6.

Appreciate any and all inputs. Especially any that tell me I am heading for issues that others have learned about through experience.

Gary

efwd
05-29-2021, 07:42 AM
I wonder about the purpose of steel braided lines on gravity feed fuel lines? They are pretty but they have to weigh quite a bit more no? My fuel lines are secured to the airframe and as John mentioned, the abrasion would be terrible.

Geek
05-29-2021, 10:11 AM
I think you are correct Eddie in that they are a bit heavier, especially with the AN fittings rather than just rubber hose/ hose clamp. Since there are a multitude of Kitfox out there flying around I am certain rubber hose and hose clamp works just fine. I'm just not a fan which I think comes from my motor head days of rebuilding older cars. It's hard sometimes to break away from what you have had great success with in the past. Pretty? I guess so but my real attraction to them is that they are PTFE hoses and impervious to every fuel I know of and my history with AN fittings is a solid one. My plan is to use Adel clamps to hold the hoses so they won't be abrading against the airframe at all. I am looking at more flexible hose for the wing fold and thinking along the lines of a clear Motion Pro hose. That would give me a Tygon hose that's flexible and I could visually see that there was fuel being fed to the header tank as a bonus. Guess it's still a work in progress.

Geek
06-03-2021, 07:46 PM
In the middle of installing rib 2 on both wings, the fuel cap fairing, stringer, and the upper/lower false ribs. I used the aluminum angle pieces as a reference for the capstrip level when setting up the ribs. Lots of shimming going on to get those levels right and thankful for a good table saw and bench belt sander. Using the sander to fine tune the false ribs is a real plus. I have done the fitting for the upper false ribs on both wings and am starting on the lower ribs now. I installed the fuel cap fairing (yes the tool box worked perfectly to weigh the fairing to the tank while the Hysol set up) and the overflow tube (finished it but didn't take a final pic). Seems like I am doing a lot of stuff but not progressing very fast. The new mantra is "It's not a race". Also saw a comment on the forum where it was noted that doing a step the first time takes much longer than doing it the second time. Man is that one right on!!

Geek
06-09-2021, 06:23 PM
I have reached the part where I am getting ready to install the Laker leading edge but wanted to check a few things. One of the things I have read here is that there can be some interference when sweeping the wings with the butt rib that requires some trimming. Since I had never actually swept the wings, thought that might be a good idea to do before pressing on. Also I didn't like the idea of mounting the pitot tube outboard of the wing strut. Just too exposed for my liking and people do like to walk around and look at airplanes. I planned on mounting it inboard of the wing strut. My ruler said that it was going to work but again, hadn't actually set the mast into the mount and fitted the pitot tube into the mast. So the good news is that the wings swept just fine and the pitot tube clears the wing spar by about three inches so now it's on to the leading edge work.

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Geek
06-18-2021, 04:59 PM
Had reached the part in the instructions to install the wing leading edges but I was going on a trip for work and didn't want to start until I could focus on it without an interruption. So I started working on the extended wing tips getting the Hysol into the edge of the fences and running a fillet where the fence joins the wing tip. The nav and landing lights also needed to be installed and had decided to build doublers along the line of what Paul (Captainphx) did (post #150 of his build log). I got the nav light doublers done but had to order corner plate nuts for the landing lights before I can finish them off. Today I got to start on the leading edge. Got the pieces fitted for the left wing and tomorrow I should get to dial in the right wing. Won't Hysol them on cause I am waiting for an order of more Hysol and don't want to start and then not be able to finish.

Kitfox Pilot
06-18-2021, 06:48 PM
Looks like they fixed the not fitting wing tips of the past with the new longer design. It should flex to fit about anything as much as the fiberglass sticks out. I guess you gain some lift also?
I like the looks of them, hadn't really seen a good pic like that of them.

Geek
06-18-2021, 08:51 PM
I hadn't actually thought about that. I do have your You Tube vid saved where you show the issue you had with yours and how you fixed it. Figured I would look at that again when I got to that part and go that way if I needed to (you kind of get the idea that I am not shy about using other people's good ideas eh?). But now looking at the video again and my wing tips I would say that yeah they are definitely different and there's probably enough flex to get it done.

G

Shadowrider
06-20-2021, 06:18 AM
Talking to Brandon he said in testing the longer wingtips do not lower the stall speed which was very surprising to me? He said in a stall and slow flight they do increase stability. I imagine they help in a climb rate also?

Geek
06-21-2021, 08:54 PM
Bit more done on the wing tip landing lights. Cut the holes in the wing tips for the mounts. Once you cut in through the skin you can see the tube that runs through the wing tip. The instructions say you need to trim back that tube and I'll admit I asked Brandon for some clarification just to be sure before I cut them. With the heat sink on the back of the landing light, you need to cut the tube back about 3/4" behind the back wall of the fairing. Was able to start fitting the backing plate I made to mount the light but am still waiting for the right nut plates before I can epoxy them to the fiberglass mount. Once that's done I'll be able to glue the mount into the wing tips.

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Geek
07-01-2021, 06:30 PM
Took off a week to visit my daughter in FL who is a Navy helo pilot. She just came home from cruise and I haven't seen her in over a year and a half due to Covid so it was a great time. Now home and while gone, my nut plates for my landing light backing plate came in and finally got the whole assembly Hysol'd into the landing light fairing. Also started epoxying in the leading edge. Firmly convinced that Kitfox has some major interest in the blue tape companies since this is how they say to hold the leading edge to the ribs during the epoxying process.

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DMMeix
07-01-2021, 09:37 PM
Ah, Jacksonville. Only spent a week or two there total. I was on a cruiser out of Norfolk from '10-'12. We were usually just there to pick up and drop off the helo det for deployments though it was nice having pilots onboard to mix up the wardroom dynamic.

Glad you got to go down there. I thought 8 months was a long cruise. I can only imagine what it's been like on some of the recent carrier cruises.

Geek
07-24-2021, 06:22 PM
Finally got time to work on the plane again. With the landing light fairings all installed the wing tip install to the wings was next on the list. Installed the aluminum strips on to the capstrips of the outer rib. Slipped the wing tip on to the wing and noted over 1/8" gap in some places between the tip and the rib capstrip which was to be expected. Ran a 1 1/4" piece of blue tape on to the wing tip that was lined up on the rib capstrip and drew a line following the outboard edge of that tape on to the tip. That line ran parallel to the rib capstrip. Pulled the tape off and ran another piece of 1" tape that followed the line I drew. That left me with between 1/4" and 1/8" edge of the wing tip to cut off. Used a Dremel with a cutoff wheel and cut along the tape (left the tape on there cause it's easier to see than a drawn line when you're cutting). Installed the wing tip back on to the wing and it fit perfectly. Even a blind squirrel gets a nut sometimes. Per the instructions, I drilled #40 holes with a 4" spacing through the wing tip and into the aluminum mounting strips, clecoing as I went along. Once complete, I used a straight edge to mark the rear edge of the wing tip and trimmed that to length. Both the right and left wing tips are now fitted. Next will be installing the nut plates on to the aluminum strips that the #8 screws will go into when the wing tip is mounted for final install (after the wing is covered) (Sorry I have not mastered the picture thing where they don't rotate or stay in the order I had them in)

G

alexM
07-24-2021, 06:58 PM
Great work. What nutplates are you going to use to retain those wingtips?

Geek
07-24-2021, 07:44 PM
Thanks. The kit supplies the #8 nut plates which are the longer ones in the pic. I have the shorter version in my stash that I am going to use at the front ends of the strip since I started my hole pattern closer to the front edge and want the extra space between the rivet and the edge of the strip.

G

Kitfox Pilot
07-24-2021, 08:29 PM
I like the new wingtip and light sockets. Everything is looking really nice Gary.

Geek
07-26-2021, 02:09 PM
Thanks Harlan. Still getting a lot of good info from your vids.

G

Geek
07-29-2021, 04:08 PM
Well since I didn't make the pilgrimage to Oshkosh I got to do a little more work on the Kitfox. After fitting the wing tips I needed to install the nut plates on the mounting strips so that was today's fun. Got them all drilled and the riveted. Now I guess I get to put them away somewhere that I won't lose them and then install them after covering the wing.

jiott
07-29-2021, 06:33 PM
A tip I found useful-try the screws in the nutplates; many of them will be really tight, so that the phillips screwdriver wants to strip the screw head. If that is the case, carefully squeeze the nutplate with vice-grips so the threaded bushing is a little less oval shaped. That will loosen up the fit. Much easier to do before you install the strips on the wing.

Geek
07-29-2021, 07:05 PM
Good tip. Was thinking about using allen button head screws to replace the phillips head. Good news is that they don't strip easily. Bad news is that a phillips head screw driver is much easier to find when you're not at home than the right size allen key. I will go through and check the nut plates cause you're right-much easier to do off than installed.

Thanks

Gary

PapuaPilot
07-31-2021, 05:57 AM
One thing you can do to loosen the nutplates is to run an appropriate sized hex head bolt or allen head screw in and out of the nutplates a couple time using a cordless drill. After doing this the philips head screws should go in easier.

Geek
08-01-2021, 07:07 AM
Thanks Phil. All these are good checks before I do the install so I don't have to fight it later. The only suggestion I've gotten so far that I discounted was "just run an 8-32 tap through it". Just what I didn't want to do - cut the threads wide open and watch the screws fall out after a while due to vibration. I mean hey..... no vibration out there at the wing tip. Right?

G

Kitfox Pilot
08-01-2021, 10:36 AM
https://teamkitfox.com/Forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=28495&stc=1&thumb=1&d=1627599939What is the black screw driver looking think in this pic?

bumsteer
08-01-2021, 11:05 AM
Harlan

Pretty sure it's a style of de-burrer.

Rick

Geek
08-01-2021, 11:19 AM
What is the black screw driver looking think in this pic?

Harlan - It's a deburring tool. Can't believe you built the nice airplane you did without one.

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Kitfox Pilot
08-01-2021, 06:23 PM
I used a de-burrer but it didn't look like that. I just couldn't figure it out from the handle end.

alexM
08-01-2021, 07:28 PM
I'm trying to figure out that handle geometry too. I have a similar debur tool but it has a simple Z shaped crank handle.

Geek
08-02-2021, 10:57 AM
Glad to hear you had something similar Harlan. I would hate to think you were doing it the hard way.

The handle is the same theory as the Z handle I think. It's probably an older design. In my former life I worked for the Navy with a R&D group and got to work with a lot of guys who built stuff for aircraft that were a lot smarter than me. I got my version many moons ago along with my nut plate drill guides and stuff like that after watching and helping them build that stuff. I used screwdrivers later in life that had the Z type crank when I worked as a "hey boy" for an electrician while going to college. I think the older design like mine is easier to spin the countersink in the hole and keep it centered but that's probably a personal preference on my part.

Geek
08-03-2021, 03:36 PM
Started installing the pitot tube into the left wing. I am installing the Garmin heated version of the pitot tube so it's a bit more than just the tubing lines. My goal was to install the pitot tube so I can remove it from the outside without taking the wing apart should it require maintenance. There will be an access port at the lower wing that will allow me to disconnect the tubing from the pitot tube itself as well as disconnect/remove the heater controller. With the bends I put in the hard line tubes I am able to remove the pitot tube from the mast without issue and still meet the Garmin requirement to keep the tubing as long as possible. After getting the bends dialed in I needed to support the tubes a bit so they just didn't vibrate in free space. I added a support to hold the tubing. I put a clear piece of tubing around the aluminum tubing and then made a clip that holds the aluminum tubing against the support. That clip screws into a nut plate to make it easier to remove/install through that wing access point. Got it all installed but not permanently since there is plenty left to do on the wing itself.

I also added a spacer to my magnetometer mounting plate to support the electrical connector. It uses a standard DB9 connector but in my install, this is the end of my CANBUS so it also has a termination in there making the overall connector pretty long. The spacer will support the connector and the termination.

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rv9ralph
08-03-2021, 07:30 PM
Geek,

In your picture it appears that the magnetometer is mounted in the wing above/near your heated pitot. Do you think the heating element of the pitot will affect your magnetometer?

One way to check is to energize the heated pitot while holding a compass near it. If the compass moves it will affect the magnetometer.

Just a thought to consider before closing the wing.

Ralph

Geek
08-03-2021, 08:53 PM
Appreciate your checking me on this but in this case I'm OK. The magnetometer is actually all the way out on the end of the left wing tip. The box you see in the pics is the pitot heat controller. I mounted my pitot tube so that it is inboard of where the wing strut attaches to the wing rather than outboard as called out in the instructions. So my pitot location is even farther away from the wing tip and the magnetometer. Again I do appreciate you and anyone else checking me on this stuff. Far from an expert and have found over the years that I am a pro at dumbazz mistakes.

Gary

rv9ralph
08-03-2021, 09:05 PM
No problem, but still... using a compass to verify that you have found a magnetically neutral location for the magnetometer is a good idea.

Ralph

Geek
08-04-2021, 12:18 PM
Yup I can see that and will give it a check. If for no other reason than you were really right; better to find out now rather than after the wing is closed up.

Thanks

Gary

Delta Whisky
08-04-2021, 01:56 PM
Geek - In trying to get caught up on all things Kitfox since returning from Oshkosh, I saw your pictures showing the pitot location/install. In other words: sorry for such a late input.

From your pictures it appears that your AOA and pitot are the same item or at least in about the same location - I can't tell for sure. If so and if you have access to an aerodynamicist you might want to get h/his opinion as to how close they are to the top and leading edge of the lift strut. AOAs especially can be really sensitive to local disturbances and an expert's opinion now might keep you from having to move it after covering and flight tests reveal something you don't like.

Geek
08-04-2021, 02:29 PM
Darrel,

Hope you had a great time at Oshkosh. Ducking the Willie Willies must have been certainly interesting.

I am away from home working (have to figure out some way to afford that motor) so don't have access to my pics. Yes the AOA and the pitot are all located in the same unit. The tube actually sticks out about two inches in front of the leading edge of the lift strut and is about three inches above it. The location of the front end of the tube is within what the directions from Garmin call for with respect to the leading edge of the wing. So that being said, it 'should' be OK but I do certainly take notice of inputs from those who have successfully built before me. As luck would have it, one of my friends from my Navy days is an aero and a grad of the Navy Test Pilot School at Pax River. As with all good friends from the Navy, tell them that you have beer and scotch at the ready and it is no problem to get them to visit you. He is coming out early in September, picking me up and flying down to the Tailhook Convention together. With the promise of the aforementioned libations, he has agreed to look at my work so far and point out all my mistakes (he's a giver don't you know). I will bring this up and see what he says.

Thanks again for the input and please keep them coming should you see anything else I should look at or steer away from.

Geek

Geek
08-06-2021, 11:18 AM
Darrel - here's a couple pics I took when I was making sure the pitot tube was going to work mounted inboard of the wing strut attachment point on the wing. You can get the idea of where it sits in relation to the strut itself.

Geek


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Delta Whisky
08-08-2021, 10:06 AM
Gary - Although I question the logic of anyone willing to hang out with a squid, specially of the Airedale variety - I'm sure glad that some are still willing to do so. (Otherwise, where would I be?) It is the closeness of the pitot/AOA that makes me think getting another opinion is a good idea. BUT - it just occurred to me. I like the concept of protecting the pitot tube (and eyes, noses and heads in general) by putting it inside the lift strut. Maybe a good back up plan is to duplicate your mounting structure outside the lift strut. If airflow issues caused by having it too close to the strut make where it is unusable, then moving it later would/could be a minor task. (Not so minor after covering is plan B isn't there already.)

Geek
08-08-2021, 08:45 PM
Darrel - I can understand the questioning logic of hanging out with those of the squidly persuasion. Fortunately for me I have found them to be the best of friends that I can always count on. Even after many years. I do like the option idea. Not exactly a major weight driver and cheap insurance for certain. I'll see what the expert says and flex from there. I am still a ways out from covering the wings.

Gary

Geek
08-11-2021, 02:42 PM
Started working on the flaperons. Fabricated the support blocks used to align the control arms for the flaperons. Did the rivets along the trailing edge of the flaperon using 3/32 flat head solid rivets and completed the fitting and installation of the inboard edge. I bought the parts to close out the outboard of the flaperon but am not sure I am going to use them. Still trying to figure a way to make them fit 'nicely'. Any suggestions or hints are welcomed. May require the elixir of all creative thought........bourbon.

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jiott
08-11-2021, 03:20 PM
The plastic outboard flaperon ends are quick and easy to use, but I still think balsa end caps are sturdier and can be fit very nicely.

Geek
08-11-2021, 04:40 PM
Jim - I would definitely agree with the Hysol coated balsa being sturdier. I was originally actually thinking I would line the inside with Hysol and stuff it wilt the original foam supplied with the kit to just to beef them up some. Jury is still out on exactly what I will wind up doing.

Geek
08-12-2021, 05:32 PM
Worked on getting the counterbalances installed on the right flaperon. Got all the counterbalances drilled and got the two for the right flaperon riveted and Hysol'd on. Not a lot done but for whatever reason working on the flaperons makes me overly careful. Must be that they are so thin and so fragile when they aren't all connected to their pivots.

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Geek
08-15-2021, 05:10 PM
I really didn't like the prefab tips for the flaperon just cause they felt thin and would self destruct without much effort. They probably are fine but that was just me. But I did like the way they looked when they were installed. So I took some Hysol and lined the inside of the tip. Not pretty but it really made them feel solid when they were installed. Finished the control arm install on the left flaperon so that part was done. I started installing the hinge mounts on the left wing. I sandwiched a piece of aluminum between the two hinge pieces (literally a couple thousandths thinner than the washers the instructions say to mount between the mounts. Marked a line on it for the 1/8 inch space between the trailing edge and the mount and pressed it up against the washer so I could see my spacing. I clamped a three foot aluminum L to the ribs so that the back of the mount pressed against the L when the 1/8 spacing was right. That way I was certain the mount would not slip back and I would loose my spacing when I drilled them. Got both my inboard and outboard hinge mounts drilled and cleco'd with the proper spacing I measured between the hinges on the flaperon. Now I am ready to mount the flaperon to the wing and install the remaining hinge mounts.

Gary

alexM
08-15-2021, 08:34 PM
I'm just about to do this step, so thanks for the pictures. Great idea clamping that extrusion in place to keep the hinge brackets from shifting.

I have the prefab tips and agree they seem thin. I was thinking about just roughing out a piece of balsa and squishing it with Hysol into the tip piece. Sure a lot faster than shaping, sanding, filling, shaping, etc like we do in the tail of the airplane.

Geek
08-21-2021, 02:28 PM
Getting ready to go off on travel again for work so didn't want to get into anything major. Thought I would do a bit of fit and finish work. The flaperon hinges are punched out of flat sheet during manufacturing so the edges are sharp with some square corners as well. Just like a good punch will do. So I smoothed the edges and rounded the corners to make them look a bit more finished. I had run a fillet of Hysol along the edge of the wing tip and the fence just to give a touch more support. Started going over the Hysol with the filler to smooth out that fillet and give it a better look when I paint the tip.

Gary

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Geek
09-03-2021, 08:25 AM
Have been building the electrical cables that go into the wings. Now have the magnetometer, pitot heat and both port and stbd cables for lights (landing and nav lights) completed. The light cables are set up with connectors where the wing tips attach as well as at the wing root. I haven't attached those wing root connectors just to make routing them down the wing spars easier. The magnetometer is also going to be routed down the rear spar while the OAT cable will route behind the fuel tank to keep the length of the cable in spec. The magnetometer, lights and OAT will all be incorporated into the one wing root connector for the port wing. Stbd wing is easy with only the lights coming out to the root.

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Geek
09-20-2021, 03:56 PM
A friend of mine asked me the other day how the plane was coming. Thought about that for a bit and came up with a one word answer; stagnated. I have a really nice HVLP paint system that is pretty high quality. That's the good news. The bad news (and the reason for the stagnation answer) is that the HVLP paint sprayer operator (me) isn't good at all. My last week of effort has been pretty much sand, spray, sand, repeat. I am so good at running that I should have been in the Olympics. I am very good at sanding out the runs too. Maxed myself out on You Tube vids on how to and just keep winding up with runs. Today I tried again on both the wing tips and one of the flaperons. The good news is that while there are still some minor runs on the tips, I took what I learned there and applied it to the flaperon. No runs there. It actually came out pretty nice. So maybe my days of stagnation are behind me. God I hope so.

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DesertFox4
09-20-2021, 07:59 PM
Your post is so familiar when it comes to building an aircraft. Whether building a part or painting the thing. The best work doesn’t always appear during the first attempt. Not quitting or settling for mediocre results is a worthy goal. Keep after it. Any tribulations during the build will vanish when you take your first flight.👍

Eric Page
09-20-2021, 07:59 PM
They sure look good to me. I'll haul mine over the pass when it's time to paint!

airlina
09-21-2021, 03:37 AM
One thing that really helped me to eliminate runs , was to rotisserie most everything I painted so I was only painting a horizontal surface. Bruce N199CL

Jcard
09-21-2021, 04:28 AM
Was going to try and get a carbon wrap on the wingtips and a few other odds and ends. Less paint I am guilty of, better place the world is.

Geek
09-21-2021, 08:14 AM
Your post is so familiar when it comes to building an aircraft. Whether building a part or painting the thing. The best work doesn’t always appear during the first attempt. Not quitting or settling for mediocre results is a worthy goal. Keep after it. Any tribulations during the build will vanish when you take your first flight.👍

Thank you sir - I firmly agree. But I also don't sit still well. I think the light I see at the end of the painting tunnel now may not be the train.


They sure look good to me. I'll haul mine over the pass when it's time to paint!

As long as there is vitamin B involved (beer or bourbon). Anytime you're over on this side feel free to drop in.


One thing that really helped me to eliminate runs , was to rotisserie most everything I painted so I was only painting a horizontal surface. Bruce N199CL

Yup that flaperon was much easier to control than the wingtip. That may be the answer in the long run is to just do the tips with multiple passes on only horizontal surfaces.

Thanks to all for the comments and such.

Gary

Geek
09-23-2021, 05:22 PM
Banner day in that my flaperons and wing tips now have a primer coat of paint on them that isn't a bunch of runs. Finished painting the left flaperon this morning. Tomorrow I will put both of the flaperons into storage for the Winter knowing they are protected. Same with the wing tips. This afternoon I started on the horizontal stab and the elevator by doing the reaming of the pivot points. I built an out feed table for my table saw many moons ago and put hold down tracks in it to allow me to use the table as an assembly base as well. Used the hold downs to secure the HS and Elev while reaming and that made it pretty easy. All in all it was a good day of progress.

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Eric Page
09-24-2021, 10:37 AM
I like that little reamer chuck; where'd you get that?

Geek
09-24-2021, 11:29 AM
I like that little reamer chuck; where'd you get that?

It's actually a tap handle Eric. I've had it a couple days past forever but I have seen them at Home Depot, Ace Hardware and places like that. It's for taps between 1/4" and 1/2", it has a ratchet built in and a center position that locks it for either way. I took a grinder to the end of the reamer to make it square (like you find on a tap) so that it had a solid grip on the reamer. Between holding the parts still with the hold down and using the tap handle, reaming was pretty much a non-event.

G

Here's a link for the one I have. https://www.grainger.com/product/GENERAL-Tap-Wrench-6TFF2?opr=PDPSDSP&analytics=dssubItems_6TFF5&position=1

Eric Page
09-24-2021, 12:34 PM
Nice -- thanks for the tip. I'm a bit embarrassed that I had never seen one of those before, even after spending three of my early working years in a machine shop!

Geek
09-24-2021, 04:35 PM
Glad how I did it might help someone else. I have gotten so much help and so many good tips from this forum. I too spent some of my early 'formative years' working in a machine shop but the reason I had this one was that it was my dad's (I did say I had it a couple days past forever). He was a Master Chief Machinist Mate in the Navy, one of the best mechanically inclined people I ever met (not that I might be biased) and I inherited all his tools which are now some of my most prized possessions. Always fun to use his stuff on my plane.

G

Eric Page
09-24-2021, 05:16 PM
Very cool. I know just what you mean. I have a few old tools that I inherited from my grandfather. As tools go, they're nothing special, but you'd have to pry them from my cold, dead fingers.

Geek
09-27-2021, 10:18 AM
Not exactly aircraft but progress in my mind anyway. The goal was to get the flaperons and wing tips primed and stored out of the way before Winter. Done deal. Built some shelves to do just that. Flaperons are high up on the shop wall where I won't bash, dent, or otherwise screw them up. The wing tips went up on the wall in the garage. While certainly not Mil-Spec Class A storage, the tips are covered up and while you can't see it, the hinge slots on the flaperons are protected as well. They should survive well up there. Now I can safely work on other things in the shop and not worry about those parts.

I did do some aircraft work in that I finished the initial sanding all the ribs for the horizontal stab and the elevator so they are now ready to start fitting.


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Geek
09-29-2021, 07:17 PM
Spent the last couple days fitting the ribs for the horizontal stab and elevator. I read over the directions for this part and changed the order on some of the steps. The directions call to Hysol the ribs onto the stab and elevator and then add stiffeners where required. I thought adding the stiffeners before actually installing the ribs would be easier and cleaner all around. There was also a 1/2" hole called out to be drilled into two of the ribs after they were installed. I marked where the hole would be while fitting those ribs and drilled it now. Hysol is in the process of drying on the stiffeners right now. I am thinking I will also do the lacquer on the ribs but leave the areas that get the Hysol when installing the ribs to the structure. I'll finish the lacquer over all the ribs once they are installed but that should be a quick job. Also going to do the fitting of the bearings on the elevator before I install the ribs. That way I won't run the chance of breaking a rib if I get careless.

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jiott
09-29-2021, 10:23 PM
Its not real clear in the manual, but if you look closely at the rib installation drawing it shows the stiffeners going the full length of the rib, so they actually butt up to the steel tubing on each end. I believe that is why the instructions say to put the stiffeners in AFTER gluing the ribs in place. Whether this is really necessary or not is probably open to opinion; however, my experience leads me to believe its a good idea. I did it on the horizontal stab but neglected to do this on the elevator. When heat shrinking the fabric (Polyfiber) to the final 350 degrees on the horizontal I had no problems, but when shrinking the elevator all the ribs that were not fully stiffened ended up "S" curved from the strong pull of the fabric. It was not too bad, but the small steel tubing in the rear was not real straight. Those 1/8" thick ribs have very little compressive strength anywhere they are not stiffened. Other results and opinions may vary.

Geek
09-30-2021, 06:32 AM
Thanks Jim. Good input and obviously something I didn't consider. I'll have to do some looking into that and possibly others will chime in on what they did along with similar experiences.

Appreciate the info.

G

alexM
09-30-2021, 12:56 PM
I was going to comment but decided to wait since my stab/elevator ribs were glued in when I got my project.

For the horizontal, I looked at your pictures and decided you might get lucky.

I can tell you to not try this with the vertical stab. Those ribs need to be flexed into place.

Benbell4140
09-30-2021, 03:27 PM
I found it easy to “tack” the ribs and the stiffeners in place on the structure with a dab of CA glue that uses the spray accelerator. I just tacked them all in place and then came back with the hysol.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Geek
10-04-2021, 10:20 AM
Have been working on the horizontal stab and elevator end caps and the bearings. End caps are coming along getting Hysol'd on and now the shaping process begins. Also started working the bearings for the elevator on the stab. Kind of the standard pics of the bearing being worked while chucked up into a drill press. Had them set up so that they were oversized to press in after being in the freezer overnight. I used the Loctite 680 bearing retention fluid as called out in the instructions. (If you haven't done this step yet - be ready - that stuff sets up really fast and is really strong. If you think you have alot of time think again.) After learning on the first one, I pressed the rest of the bearings halfway in, then added the Loctite and finished the press. That bearing will never spin with that Loctite in there.

G



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Geek
10-10-2021, 04:05 PM
Busy week between getting the house ready for Winter and working on the plane. I got the bushings for the elevator all fitted into the bearings on the horizontal stab. I used an older file (read not real aggressive in removing metal) and took the bushings down to a diameter of 0.312. Then used the suggested sand paper method to fine fit them. This took almost a day to complete. Started on coating the end caps with Hysol and giving them the final shape. My elevator was actually about 1/8 inch wider than the stab on one end so I made that end cap just a bit thicker to make them both the same width. If you measure the progress on the plane by how much Hysol you use - I finished my first cans!! While I was working the end caps I also varnished the ribs except for the ends where I would be applying the Hysol to glue them in. Hysol and varnish I understand don't make the best bond. Transferred the rib placement dimensions from the instructions to the assembly and then adjusted the ribs a bit to take advantage of the metal structure where it was available. I made sure the ribs were fitted perpendicular to the tubes with the hinges. Once I had them all dry fit I used my trusty aluminum angle pieces and CA glue to insure that the ribs were lined up on the stab and elevator and holding them in position to get the Hysol. Also by checking the distance between the two aluminum angles, I was able to be sure that the ribs were parallel with each other (checked my dry fitting job). Finally got the ribs Hysol'd on the upper side of the assembly. Will do the bottom side tomorrow.

Geek
10-15-2021, 05:30 PM
Worked on mounting the horizontal stab and the rudder today. Got the stab on the fuselage, attached the supports but haven't done the adjusting to verify the horizontal is perpendicular to the vertical stab. Fitted and drilled the front slide blocks. Attached the rudder and adjusted the attachment points so that the proper gap clearances of 1 1/2 inches on the top and 2 5/16 inches at the bottom between the rudder and the vertical stab. Most definitely had to run a tap through the threaded attachment points on the vertical stab to get the bearings to thread in far enough to set the proper gap.

Geek
10-17-2021, 04:59 PM
Did all the adjustments on the left and right horiz stab braces to place the stab perpendicular to the vertical stab. Had to be one of the easiest things I have done on the build. Measured from the top of the vertical to both tips of the stab as well as to where the brace mount was located on the stab. All the measurements were right on. Proceeded to mount the trim motor and ran into a bit of a wicket with the lower mount. The instructions call for the bolt to go through the mount, then a AN960-10 washer (going to call it a -10 washer from now on), a nylon washer, through the trim motor mount, a nylon washer, a -10 washer, through the other side of the mount, a -10 washer and the self locking nut (nothing called out between the collar and the mount). There was no way in God's green earth that was going to work and even look right. I even bent the mounts out a bit and those washers between the mount and the motor would not fit (and besides bending the mount just looked wrong!!). After playing with that for over an hour, I substituted the -10 washers for the thin version of the same washer (an AN960-10L that I will call -10L). So in the picture you can see that the mounts are not bent, the bolt goes through the mount, a -10L washer, a nylon washer, through the trim motor mount, a nylon washer, a -10L washer, through the other side of the mount, a -10 washer between the mount and the collar, through the collar, a -10L washer and the self locking nut. I torqued the nut to the 15 in/lb requirement and just have two thread showing through the top of the nut. Hence the -10L washer between the nut and collar. If anyone reading this sees something wrong with what I did, PLEASE let me know and provide me an option other than bending the mounts.

So now that the trim motor is installed, I removed the horiz stab and am looks like the next item on the fun list are the ribs for the rudder.

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jrevens
10-17-2021, 05:50 PM
You did well. In this kind of situation you use thin or thick washers, as necessary.

alexM
10-17-2021, 06:37 PM
As John said, you'll find many places on this build where you use a combination of -10 and -10L washers to make things fit just right.

Geek
10-18-2021, 07:06 AM
You did well. In this kind of situation you use thin or thick washers, as necessary.


As John said, you'll find many places on this build where you use a combination of -10 and -10L washers to make things fit just right.


Thanks John and Alex. I know I certainly didn't like the look of bent mounts and such. I am just getting started on the fuselage so this was a good press to test on how to approach the rest of it all.

Gary

PapuaPilot
10-18-2021, 08:14 AM
I used some 10L washers on the rudder hinges so that I didn't end up bending the tabs. Yes, there are a lot of places you can use washers to space and shim up things.

Geek
10-21-2021, 04:25 PM
Started working the ribs for the vertical stab and rudder. I also jumped ahead a bit with the instructions to fit and drill the half inch aluminum edge that is used to attach the rear inspection panel. I read somewhere here on the forum where one builder (sorry I couldn't find it again so I can't provide credit for the idea) suggested it might be easier to do the fitting and drilling of those before the rib was Hysol'd on to the frame. That sure made sense to me so I followed suit by doing the fabrication, drilling and fitting of the pieces. Got them primed and painted so they are ready to install once I get all the ribs installed permanently. Pressed on with fitting the rest of the ribs on both the vertical and the rudder making sure they were lined up with each other (so they look cool when I cover them). I built the stiffeners for the ribs, removed the ribs from the airframe and Hysol'd the stiffeners to the ribs so that I can move on to giving them a coat of lacquer tomorrow.

alexM
10-21-2021, 05:47 PM
Looks great. I did exactly what you did there, fitting/drilling all those aluminum pieces before bonding the ribs in place.

Geek
10-21-2021, 05:53 PM
Looks great. I did exactly what you did there, fitting/drilling all those aluminum pieces before bonding the ribs in place.

Must be a Washington thing then eh?

Geek
10-28-2021, 03:18 PM
Got the ribs on both the vertical stab and rudder lacquered with two coats so that fun part is done. As I said before, I didn't exactly follow the instructions when it came time to epoxy in some of the ribs. One of those places was the top of the vertical assembly. The instructions call for epoxying in the rib to the rudder tube structure. That would be fine but the bottom of that rib didn't line up with the bottom of the top rib on the vertical stab. So I lowered it a bit, installed a spacer between the rib and the tube so that they line up. I roughed out the top caps for the vertical and rudder out of balsa and the bottoms now line up perfectly so when I cover the tail it will look straight. I fitted the trailing edge fairing to the vertical and epoxied the fairing to the rear 'spine' so that I know the fairing is straight. I'll do the edges of the fairing to the ribs tomorrow after the spine epoxy sets up. You can see that I adhere to one of my father's adages for working in the shop; "A man cannot have too many clamps".

Geek
11-10-2021, 04:28 PM
Got the fiberglass rudder fairing Hysol'd on to the rudder before having to leave for a week for work. Came home and was able to do some final trimming on the fairing so that it fit on the vertical stab with with no interference in it's movement. One thing I did before gluing the fairing to the rudder was go back and make it so that the bolts through the vertical stab bearings went in without having to tweak the rudder some. That was time well spent since once you secure the fairing to the rudder and then install it on the vertical stab, it's harder to get the bolts in cause you have to go through the access holes in the fairing. Having it fitted with a good alignment made it much easier.

Earlier I had done some rough cutting out of balsa for the top caps on the vertical stab and rudder but when I looked at them again, I didn't like the way they looked. So I made a new set, did some rough shaping and then Hysol'd them. Tomorrow I should be able to do work on dialing in the shape and possibly start the Hysol coating.

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DesertFox4
11-10-2021, 08:59 PM
With all that extra attention to the details, she’s going to fly nice Gary and look great doing it.

RJK_Omaha
11-10-2021, 09:06 PM
Gary...I must admit, I really like your homemade 'onewheel' used to hold up and move the tail!

Geek
11-10-2021, 09:48 PM
With all that extra attention to the details, she’s going to fly nice Gary and look great doing it.


Gary...I must admit, I really like your homemade 'onewheel' used to hold up and move the tail!

Thanks guys. I enjoy this kind of thing and it keeps me off the streets; the women and children all safe. Can't wait to fly it but admit certain to enjoying this part of the experience as well. As for the one wheel it works well for me. When I was working wings over the summer it made moving the fuselage in and out of the shop really easy. Right now I have it off so that the tail is down lower and I can work the top caps. Once they are done I'll put it back on just because it makes moving it around. When I get to the point where I have to roll the fuselage over to work the bottom, I'll have to figure something else out.

G

Geek
11-22-2021, 04:50 PM
Been away at work and time on the plane has been scattered some. I got the top cap on the vertical and stab/rudder coated with Hysol, sanded and primed. Finished fitting the control shaft bearing and pressed in the second shaft to help with the distorting of the bearing when you torque it down (which worked really well) and started assembling the other control assemblies. Made quite a dent in the box of powder coated parts!!

efwd
11-23-2021, 02:48 AM
Hi Gary. Don't be like me and find out that the gap between the vertical stab and the rudder is too tight. You will need to have a gap to accommodate six layers of fabric, glue, primer and paint. I didn't use paint and still had to turn all my rod end bearings out after Oratex was applied. Not a big deal but it would be nice if you don't have to fuss with those bearings once you have them in. If you have to adjust your rudder out you then have to adjust the rigging if you have done that already. Looking great.

Geek
11-23-2021, 07:31 AM
Thanks Eddie. I am using Oratex so I am at least ducking the bullet on six layers BUT your advice is still valid in that I think it's too tight for even that. I'll make sure that once I have all the controls to the back installed and am ready to rig them I get that figured out and accounted for. Appreciate the input.

Gary

efwd
11-23-2021, 10:30 AM
Usually where two fabric surfaces meet, they overlap. Thats two, then the finish tape is a third layer. If anyplace along those two surfaces the joints are in proximity you might say its truly six with Oratex. Ask me how I know.

Denalifox
11-23-2021, 11:39 AM
Thanks Eddie. I am using Oratex so I am at least ducking the bullet on six layers BUT your advice is still valid in that I think it's too tight for even that. I'll make sure that once I have all the controls to the back installed and am ready to rig them I get that figured out and accounted for. Appreciate the input.

Gary

I had all mine set up and had two layers of 6000 and one 2" tape of 600 and mine rubbed pretty bad. Actually had to shim my rudder stop because I had to move it out so much. But just plan for it and it turns out just fine. Best of luck.

Geek
11-27-2021, 09:41 AM
Yeah I was coming to that conclusion here pretty quickly after Eddie chimed in and I started looking at it closer. I knew my 25 degrees was going to be a bit off after I installed the fairings and then had to back out the bearings a bit to get clearance. How did you go about shimming your stops. Been thinking of welding them back a bit but am a bit concerned I might warp it a bit with the heat.

G

efwd
11-27-2021, 11:11 AM
Okay, I see we have come to the modification part.:)
On the part that is on the rudder you will notice it is a piece of angle. I drilled and tapped a hole in the vertical portion and placed a bolt through with the head of the bolt now the part that contacts the rudder stops that you may have already trimmed short as I did. I used two jam nuts on each of those bolts to ensure they stay where I put them. Worked out beautifully.

Geek
11-27-2021, 02:56 PM
And this your honor is a better solution! Thanks Eddie!!

Geek
11-30-2021, 05:31 PM
Been working the control linkages for the elevator and ailerons and am happy to say the controls feel smooth as silk. Completed fitting the floorboards so they are ready to be coated. I am using a water-based poly on them that is pretty hardy as far as wear, easy to clean up and most importantly - doesn't stink up the shop!! Am ready to start on the center console and my first step was assembling the flap detent. Again reading the forum, many have added two additional flap positions to their detent and that seemed like a good thing. (C'mon you can never have too many positions - right?) So I added the two and assembled it ready to install on the console.

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Geek
12-04-2021, 07:08 AM
Assembled the detent brackets for both the flaps and the adjustable rudder pedals. Located and installed the center console on to the aircraft frame. Once done, I installed the flap lever detent bracket by match drilling the bracket to the console with a #40 drill and once the install was tested to insure that the flap handle operated as it should (full range of motion and the lever locked correctly into each of the bracket detents), opened the rivet holes up using a #30 drill. I chose to use flat head vice pop rivets to attach the bracket because my current plan is to cover the console and didn't want the heads of the pop rivets to show up under the covering. I am also not using the trim switch location as defined by the kit so I fabricated and filled the hole with an insert. My trim will be controlled by a switch on the control sticks.


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Eric Page
12-04-2021, 11:56 AM
I chose to use flat head vice pop rivets to attach the bracket because my current plan is to cover the console and didn't want the heads of the pop rivets to show up under the covering.
FYI, and for anyone viewing this later, there are flush head pop rivets (https://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/hapages/cherrynrivet.php) available. See the part number guide below the ordering table. Any part number with "C" as the third character is a flush head rivet.

Geek
12-04-2021, 04:40 PM
FYI, and for anyone viewing this later, there are flush head pop rivets (https://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/hapages/cherrynrivet.php) available. See the part number guide below the ordering table. Any part number with "C" as the third character is a flush head rivet.

You are correct Eric. I probably should have been more specific in that if I powder coat, paint or something along the line vinyl covering, the holes on the top of the rivet will show. That's what I was trying to get away from.

G

Eric Page
12-04-2021, 06:10 PM
Ah, OK, gotcha. I was picturing a carpet type cover in my head...

Geek
12-10-2021, 05:29 PM
Have been working but a little slack on the documenting....... Finished multiple coats of poly on the floorboards and got them installed. I put a piece of aluminum sheet on the floor boards where my heels will hit. In my whole life I think I have only flown one plane that didn't have major wear marks from the pilot's heels and that plane I got to pick up from the factory. Moved ahead with the rudder pedal install and was moving right along until I got to fabricating the clip that goes over the wheel on the pedals. Not sure what the deal was with me but I think those were the UGLIEST clips ever made by man. There was no way I was going to install them. They were either too high or too wide at the top. So I went to the Kitfox Help Line (Debra, Heather and Nicky) and ordered another set of the stainless steel sheet to do it again. While I was waiting for the new stock, I decided to build a jig to help make these clips. Took a piece of plywood and cut two grooves the same width and depth as the stainless steel stock. Glued another piece of wood over the top of the grooves so that the stock would slide in. Measured and drilled where the holes in the clips should be when the clip was installed in the jig. I got the stainless from Kitfox today and made all four clips using the jig and am really happy with the fit and finish when installed on the rudder peddle brackets. Also installed the rudder pedal adjustment levers.

LetMeFly
12-11-2021, 10:45 PM
...fabricating the clip that goes over the wheel on the pedals. Not sure what the deal was with me but I think those were the UGLIEST clips ever made by man. There was no way I was going to install them...

Nice going on the clip jig! I clamped mine between two 2x4's with an offset, drilled them in pairs, and lucked out with 2 good ones and 2 wound around the drill press bit! Somehow lucked out when the replacement metal came and got the other 2 pretty good.

Geek
12-13-2021, 09:39 PM
Floorboards are in so it was time to install the rudder pedals. Got the position dialed in on the fuselage by centering the center pivot/bearing and then working on the ends where I found the least resistance to the pedal movement. Clamped that down and then checked the overall assembly to see if it was straight across or a bit cattywompus (technical term). Turns out it was fine - maybe a 1/16" out of line which I attributed to the bearings on the center and end brackets. Drilled the holes for the end brackets and then clamped in the forward floorboard and match drilled it up from the bottom. Temporarily installed the pedal assembly and then shimmed using 3/4" dia fender washers under the brackets to improve the pedal movement. The right side took no shims, the center took 1 shim and the left took 3. Finalized installing the bearing brackets and then located and installed the two brackets for the master brake cylinders using a 1/8" drill to get the proper separation between the bracket and the rudder tubes. Ended up with some very smooth rudder pedals which is great. Lots of putting in and taking out of the assembly to get it dialed in.

Eric Page
12-14-2021, 06:58 PM
Congratulations, sir! You've just completed one of the most tedious and frustrating tasks in the build.

Geek
12-14-2021, 07:36 PM
Thanks Eric. Found that the best way to get it done is when it's snowing outside. My only real interruption was having to go out and plow the driveway. But Mr. John Deere and I made short work of that and it was back to the shop!

G

Geek
12-20-2021, 02:45 PM
Got the top of the console cleaned up and painted. Really like the clean look of the solid rivets over the pop rivets. Installed the sides to the console but used rivet nuts along the top rather than the sheet metal screws. Seemed to work out just right. Once I had that in, I started on installing the rudder cables using the nicopress swedges which was a new experience for me. Never done that. The cable install itself went well. Used two different colors of shrink tubing so I can tell quickly which cable I have hold of (red-port/black-stbd) (didn't have green tubing for the stbd). Installed the cotter pins around the pulleys to preclude derailing of the cable as well.

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Kitfox Pilot
12-24-2021, 08:34 PM
Everything is looking really good Gary especially that cable work!

Geek
12-25-2021, 07:07 AM
Everything is looking really good Gary especially that cable work!

Merry Christmas to both you Harlan and Susan!! Thanks for the comment. It had to of been that nicopress tool I managed to score from a guy who built this really nice Kitfox!! It had great Karma on it.

G

Geek
12-29-2021, 04:00 PM
Have been working through doing preparations on parts while it snows and VERY cold outside. Cutout the required notches on the seat pan so that the seat set in the fuselage nicely. Back drilled the six attachment points, installed the nut plates on the fuselage brackets and verified that the screws all lined up. Still need to locate and cut the holes for the seat belts but have some location questions that I am working out before I do that. Have begun doing the prep work on the floor boards for the baggage area. Multiple coats of exterior poly on those. Installed the parking brake mounting bracket on the center console. Flush riveted and Hysol'd that. Cut the stringers to the correct length for installation to the fuselage. Drilled and cleco'd the stringer to the mounting brackets, filed in the notch required to fit the stringer past a fuselage structural member and notched the ends. Had to hold short from the full install till the window frames are all installed. Speaking of windows as we were ....... Fitted both left and right window frame pieces as well as the lower parts of the doors. Once done, I painted them with some 2K primer along with the stringers. Once they have dried, will complete the installs on the window frames and the stringer. As usual, doing all the prep work on this doesn't really look like much progress but once that is done and I get to really install those parts - it will look more like an airplane!

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rv9ralph
12-29-2021, 09:00 PM
Still need to locate and cut the holes for the seat belts but have some location questions that I am working out before I do that.

I just cut the seat belt openings. If it helps, the method I used of locating the side cuts was to draw an arc the specified distance from the two reference points which will give you the top and bottom of the opening. I then found a point where the two arcs are the specified distance apart the the angle looked right. That gave me the location of the two ends, drilled an initial hole, then enlarged to 3/8 withe a step drill, and connected the the two holes using a Dremel cut-off wheel.

Hope this helps.

Ralph

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Geek
12-29-2021, 09:08 PM
Thanks Ralph. I’ll be giving this one a go tomorrow!, Appreciate the suggestion

Gary

Geek
01-01-2022, 07:08 PM
Happy New Year all!! Worked on some small stuff today. I am mounting my dipole VHF antenna in the vertical stab so I need to fabricate mounts that won't interfere with the antenna. Built the upper mount and glued it up as well as figured out how I think I want to support the antenna cable connection. The lower mount should be a walk in the park once I get the other two mounts dialed in and attached. Fabricated the door hinges, backing plates and the gas shock mount so they are ready once I reach the point of installing the doors. Before I get there, I need to install the door and window moldings. I started with the right side door molding and got that Hysol'd and clamped along with riveting the joint. Liked the idea of getting these two set solid before I went ahead and did the rest of the window moldings. Just taking this part slow and easy since I want it to be right. Besides I ran out of clamps!!

Gary

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Shadowrider
01-01-2022, 07:49 PM
Looking good! Make sure on your doors to set the mount as low as possible and still allow the door to close that way when the door is open in the summer it’s not rubbing against the wing.

Geek
01-02-2022, 08:57 AM
Thanks for the clue here Dustin. Lord knows I need all the clues I can get!!

G

Geek
01-03-2022, 05:25 PM
I just cut the seat belt openings. If it helps, the method I used of locating the side cuts was to draw an arc the specified distance from the two reference points which will give you the top and bottom of the opening. I then found a point where the two arcs are the specified distance apart the the angle looked right. That gave me the location of the two ends, drilled an initial hole, then enlarged to 3/8 withe a step drill, and connected the the two holes using a Dremel cut-off wheel.

Hope this helps.

Ralph


I didn't get back to trying Ralph's solution to my locating the seat belt slots the next day like I thought I would but today was the day. Ralph's solution to draw radial arcs from the starting point of the two location measurements from the drawing and then find the point where the length of the slot intersected the two arcs. Gave that go and it got me a location that looked right - so I went with it. Got the slots cut and smoothed so they are done and ready for seat belts when the seat is finally installed. I also Hysol'd the right window frame so that tomorrow I can permanently install the right side stringer.

Thanks again Ralph!!

Gary

Geek
01-05-2022, 05:25 PM
Hysol'd in the left window frame parts today. Happy with the way these are turning out. One thing I learned from Brandon at the factory was if you dimple the rivet holes for the rivets, they sit a lot closer in to the frame (read less work fairing them in later). So I tried it on the left side and it's really an improvement. The rivets are very close to being really flush. I also Hysol'd in the upper VHF antenna mount. Once it gets set up I can proceed with installing the antenna into the vertical stab. I need to build a support for the RF connector to the antenna but want to do that with the antenna supported by the upper mount. While I was waiting for all this Hysol to dry, I fit the baggage floor, drilled the mounting holes in the boards and installed the rivnuts to secure the baggage floor. Big fan of rivnuts after using them on a couple old cars I have rebuilt and my Jeep. Never had one spin on me but I also use the same Loctite bearing lock (580 I think) when I press them. Doesn't take much and it seems to really let them take a bit of torque when I tighten in the screw/bolt.

I also sent Brandon an email to see what he thought about my issue of the inboard brake cylinders hitting the rudder pedal torque tube. (As usual - he got right back to me) He thought that once I connected the rudder up and put the cables under tension, it should be OK. Given that I won't be connecting the rudder till after I get the fuselage covered and the rudder pivots in the vertical stab reset for the right clearance once the covering is back there, I think I should still be OK to revisit this then. Just before I start with the FWF kit.

Gary

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alexM
01-06-2022, 09:59 AM
I think dimpling those window frame corners is a great idea. I considered it at the time but don't have the tools for it, but I wish I had taken the time to obtain them. You could probably skip the body and fender work on those frames entirely.

Where I'm from (engineering/production environment) Rivnuts are a plague to be avoided at all costs because when (not if) they spin it really stinks. There are certain places where they are about the only solution so: "keyed" Rivnuts only, installed very carefully and treated with kid gloves forever. I do like your loctite idea.

Per the builder tips thread I completed my rudder cable installation a long time ago when it was easy. Since I'm using Oratex and don't need to paint, I can poke them through as I cover the sides of the fuselage. The openings will be much smaller than the ones on my Citabria.

Geek
01-06-2022, 03:41 PM
I think dimpling those window frame corners is a great idea. I considered it at the time but don't have the tools for it, but I wish I had taken the time to obtain them. You could probably skip the body and fender work on those frames entirely.

Where I'm from (engineering/production environment) Rivnuts are a plague to be avoided at all costs because when (not if) they spin it really stinks. There are certain places where they are about the only solution so: "keyed" Rivnuts only, installed very carefully and treated with kid gloves forever. I do like your loctite idea.

Per the builder tips thread I completed my rudder cable installation a long time ago when it was easy. Since I'm using Oratex and don't need to paint, I can poke them through as I cover the sides of the fuselage. The openings will be much smaller than the ones on my Citabria.

Yes the dimples were a big difference but not enough to keep me from having to work as a bondo boy. I Hysol'd my left side stringer today but that was it. Guess I have been lucky with my rivnuts. I did have one spin on me long ago but it was one of those smooth aluminum ones and I should have known better. I restored a 65 Corvette and a 70 El Camino in my earlier days and was able to use rivnuts in places that made it so much easier to work on later on. (Corvette guys are probably rolling their eyes reading that - sacrilege!!).

We are doing combat snow over here today. Woke up to over 20" of new snow and after I completed going over all that I have to plow (3 hours for a normally 1 hour job), I looked at the area where I started and there was 6 inches of new. Sure interferes with the building of my plane!!!

G

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Eric Page
01-06-2022, 05:19 PM
Those of us in the lowlands envy you! We had ~6" of snow over Christmas week, then it warmed up and has been raining for several days. We've had >2" of rainfall just since midnight where I live.

Rivers in the Chehalis basin are forecast to reach record or near-record flood stage tonight and tomorrow. The two images below are the peak forecast water levels for the Chehalis and Skookumchuk Rivers at 4:00pm tomorrow. The river that enters the first image at lower left is the Chehalis, which is shown in the second image. There's about 1/2 mile missing between the two. Centralia runs down the middle of the first image and Chehalis is at the bottom of the second.

Chehalis-Centralia Airport (KCLS) is in the center of the second image. According to emails from the airport manager (and EAA Chapter 609 President), it's all-hands-on-deck up there to move aircraft to the highest available ground. Unfortunately, weather conditions preclude VFR relocation flights from KCLS. At least three daredevils tried it this morning, coming down to Toledo (KTDO). Two landed successfully and the third was heard on CTAF turning back. I don't know if he made it; conditions at the time were not VFR.

If these forecasts hold up then the Skookumchuk is going to put virtually all of Centralia under water, and the flooding has already begun. The good folks there could use some prayers.

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Sorry for hijacking your build thread, Geek...

Geek
01-06-2022, 06:43 PM
........Sorry for hijacking your build thread, Geek...

Eric - No worries. Flooding out is way worse than combat snowing and for those of us living up here, your info was germane to us all. My complaint was that I didn't get to work on my airplane as much as I wanted, and in the grand scheme of things my wimpy is nothing. This storm has been a real kicker for everyone. While I have a long driveway to plow, I also have a tractor to plow it with. So it was slow but doable. There were those with walk behind blowers that were having real issues. One of the biggest reasons I like living in a small town is that when this kind of stuff happens, you get all the help you need and give all the help you can. Sort of like this forum eh?

Stay safe my friend.

G

Geek
01-12-2022, 06:04 PM
Sanding the door frame joints which is kind of a pain but almost complete. In between sanding and re-applying the bondo I have been finishing up the VHF antenna mounts in the vertical stab. Mounted the center mount that supports the antenna cable BNC connection as well as the lower mount. Once the Hysol had set, I installed the antenna and am happy with the results. Others who have mounted this dipole antenna in the stab have reported good results so am happy with this. I also built the electrical cable for the trim motor and antenna cables that will run back to the far rear of the fuselage. Need to do the cable for the position light in the tail but am looking at how to run the cable from the fuselage into the rudder. Any inputs on how you all did this would be appreciated.

Gary

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jiott
01-12-2022, 09:25 PM
Save yourself the trouble of running wires across the hinges to the rudder for a rear position light. Get wingtip lights that have a built-in white light that shows from the rear.

Geek
01-14-2022, 08:03 PM
Save yourself the trouble of running wires across the hinges to the rudder for a rear position light. Get wingtip lights that have a built-in white light that shows from the rear.

Well thanks Jim. I like that solution. Especially when the wingtip lights I have do that.

Gary

Geek
01-15-2022, 05:06 PM
Worked on installing the bottom stringer to the fuselage today. Got it fitted, safety wired and Hysol'd in place. Yeah I know the pic of the front connection doesn't have the safety wire installed. I liked the idea of setting it up with Hysol and clamping it in place for a secure bond. Right after I took the pic I slipped a piece of safety wire through the holes and once the Hysol sets up, I will safety wire the joint.



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Geek
01-17-2022, 06:22 PM
I have finished sanding the door frame and window moldings. I was so sad - NOT!! Today I sprayed primer and got them all dialed in. Really happy with the way they turned out. I had purchased carbon fiber vinyl covering for my center console so for a change of pace after all that flipping sanding and waiting for the primer to dry, I did the covering. I used the 3M 2080 vinyl that is 3.5mil thick so I think it will wear well. If not, it comes off and I can do something else. I was also getting fired up to start fitting doors until I realized that I had bought the stainless steel door channels to keep from beating the heck out of my door frames while getting my empennage in and out of the plane. I need to get them installed before I can work the doors. So a little more fitting in my future I guess.



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bbs428
01-19-2022, 03:03 AM
Door frame moldings are not fun. Yours are looking great!

Geek
01-19-2022, 07:23 AM
Door frame moldings are not fun. Yours are looking great!

Thanks Brett. I fully agree with that statement about not being fun.

I emailed Brandon about the stainless steel thresholds and fitting the doors just to be sure I wasn't going to do something dumb. I mean hey, I have never done anything like that before!!! Brandon got right back to me with some good insight. Fit the thresholds to fit the doors but don't glue them. Once the doors are set, remove the thresholds and set aside until after final paint. Also when they get the Hysol treatment, use a board between the threshold and the clamps to distribute the clamp pressure and preclude the thresholds getting wavy as they set up. Got the right side thresholds fitted so now it's off to do the left.

Gary

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Geek
01-21-2022, 06:32 PM
Installed my covered center console and am happy with the way it looks. Installed the left side stainless steel threshold so now both sides are done. I decided on using rivnuts to attach my door glass to the doors. I am aware of the issues with rivnuts spinning in their mounting holes after a while but I have successfully used them many times without an issue. I did however take some Hysol and coat the inner edge of the hole for the rivnut before doing the install. When you squeeze the rivnut during installation, you cause the rivnut to expand a ring that goes all the way around the hole. When I did the squeeze, that ring got set into the Hysol so I am now certain I won't have any issues. I set the both door frames into the fuselage and 'adjusted' them so that they are the shape as the fuselage opening. I shimmed the door frames into the openings so that they have a pretty even space all the way around between the door and the opening. Once I had that dialed in, I did the fitting for the glass on both sides. I rough sanded out the cutting wheel marks on the edge of the glass and once that was done, polished the edges so I won't have any cracking issues later on.

Desertwndrr
01-21-2022, 09:50 PM
Looks fantastic.

What did you use to polish the edges with?

Geek
01-22-2022, 08:21 AM
Looks fantastic.

What did you use to polish the edges with?

Thanks. Polish might not be totally accurate but I started with 100 grit to remove the cutting wheel marks and then just incrementally moved on up (150, 220, 400, 600) to 1000 grit paper. It looks like it's polished and there are no scratches but it's more of a matte finish. Certain if I went higher up or used the buffing wheel I used on aluminum valve covers and such in my old car days, it would be truly a polish. I was mostly interested in getting scratches out that might promote cracks later on when vibration is working its' evil.

G

Eric Page
01-22-2022, 09:05 AM
What did you use to cut the plastic bubbles? I'm sneaking up on this task and am terrified of cracking them!

Geek
01-22-2022, 09:13 AM
I used a thin cut off wheel on my Dremmel set at about 1500 RPM. I didn't try to cut them in one pass but rather made the first pass which was more of a scoring and then went back and most of the time it was the third pass that finished the cut. I measured where I wanted to cut and then ran a line of masking tape along that line to act as a guide. Today's adventure is drilling the holes and Eric and I like you, am terrified about cracking these babies. That would be an expensive crack. I have the acrylic drill bits and have gone on You Tube and other sites to look at recommended drill speeds. I have seen "use high speeds" to "use low speeds" for that with arguments for both which didn't help me. I think I am going to defer to the middle and use something around 800 to 1000. The one thing I did see as a tip that was pretty much universal was to drill into a block of wood to support the plastic as the hole is finished. Seems as the drill exits, it wants to chip out the backside of the hole. Good luck my friend.

Gary

Eric Page
01-22-2022, 09:31 AM
I used a thin cut off wheel on my Dremmel set at about 1500 RPM. I didn't try to cut them in one pass but rather made the first pass which was more of a scoring and then went back and most of the time it was the third pass that finished the cut.
Fantastic; thanks! I'll grab some fresh wheels next time I'm in Home Depot.


I have seen "use high speeds" to "use low speeds"
The only guidance I have is the instruction sheet that came with my new windshield, which says to use high speed and very light pressure. But, that's for the acrylic windshield; I think the door bubbles are polycarbonate (Lexan). Not sure if that guidance applies to them as well.

You might want to give L.P. Aero Plastics a call: 1-800-957-2376

Jerrytex
01-22-2022, 12:47 PM
The diamond coated dremel cut off discs also work good to cut the Acrylic. I used them on my bubble doors, LP aero windshield, all the fiberglass, Skylight, and lexan turtle deck.





https://www.amazon.com/Diamond-Cutting-Cut-off-Blades-Oudtinx/dp/B07PD2262T/ref=asc_df_B07PD2262T/?tag=&linkCode=df0&hvadid=343230804212&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=15429109201822410663&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9027906&hvtargid=pla-747760274776&ref=&adgrpid=70737352762&th=1

jiott
01-22-2022, 08:29 PM
The bubble doors are acrylic, just like the windshield, so you want to be careful about cracking the same as the windshield. The only Lexan, polycarbonate, are the turtle deck, triangular windows, and the underseat storage box covers. Those things are indestructible, except they scratch real easy.

bbs428
01-22-2022, 08:54 PM
I used a small diamond cutter to make holes in the bubble doors. It cut/melted thru easily without cracking. Enlarge carefully as necessary. All the holes were made with no cracking! I used rivnuts as well. With it being so cold, the risk of cracking these expensive acrylic doors/windscreens goes up imho.
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I plan on using the same method on the windscreen.

To cut off, I did the same as Geek but used a higher rpm:

"I used a thin cut off wheel on my Dremmel set at about 1500 RPM. I didn't try to cut them in one pass but rather made the first pass which was more of a scoring and then went back and most of the time it was the third pass that finished the cut. I measured where I wanted to cut and then ran a line of masking tape along that line to act as a guide."

Eric Page
01-23-2022, 09:48 PM
Thanks very much for the additional ideas, guys. Very much appreciated.

Geek
01-24-2022, 05:58 PM
Having read the instructions for mounting the doors to the fuselage, I decided I didn't like the fact that I was doing it using the real bubble glass for the doors. Mess it up and that's a bunch of money to replace that glass. So I had a bunch of the glass left as a result of fitting the windows to the door frames earlier on so I made a piece that I could substitute for the real thing. I added a small piece of the tape that goes between the door frame and the window as well as a piece of the gasket material that goes between the window and the fuselage frame. I still had the door frame set into the fuselage in the same position that I had it in when I did the window fitting so I clamped my fake window on to the door frame and fuselage and also clamped a couple pieces of wood to make sure the door didn't move in or out of its frame. Part of the instructions that I didn't give myself a solid chance of getting right was to drill the hole for the hinge into the door frame and make it as centered in the door frame as possible. So early on I had marked on the door frame where the hinge was going to locate, centered between those marks on the door frame where the hole should be and drilled it on a drill press before I set the door into the frame to do the original fitting of the window. That hole was straight and in the center of the door frame as it was supposed to be. Added a couple more clamps that held the hinge in place. I was able to drill the lower hinge hole from the back side through the all ready drilled hole in the door frame, through my glass spacer and through the hinge. I installed a screw and nut through that hole that was just like it would be when the window was installed and then drilled the two holes up through the butt rib flange. Kind of the opposite order the instructions called for. But the bottom line is that the door opens perfectly and is still aligned with the frame as it was when I did the glass fitting. Now all I need is to drill the through the window for the hinge when I do the final mount the window on to the door frame. I also started the fitting of the close out between the butt rib and the fuselage. Got both sides fitted and in paint but won't do the final install until I am ready to do the final install on the butt rib itself since the close out gets riveted to the lower cap strip of the butt rib.


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Geek
02-01-2022, 06:32 PM
As Harlan pointed out, there isn't really a plan for closing out the horizontal stab where the brace attaches and I agree with Harlan - don't want any of those mud dobbers in my plane!! I fabricated a close out using one from the Kitfox 5 as a model. Picture "HS Close Out 9" (last pic of the group) pretty much reflects how the Kitfox 5 close out would look. I added one more attachment point than the original just to hold the cover just a bit better (third pic from the last). Also fabricated the actual cover but did not cut the hole for the brace yet as the horizontal stab moves from trimming and I have not assessed how much movement will occur at the brace points. I also covered the side panels for the center console with the same material as I used on the console and am happy with the look.

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Kitfox Pilot
02-01-2022, 07:17 PM
You will be glad you did that. The brace moves more than I thought it would. I am going to attach a flexable foam to the rod to finish filling the hole. The foam piece will just slide ontop of the small inspection door with no chance of binding. Yours is looking good!

Your console is very nice also.

Geek
02-01-2022, 08:16 PM
Thanks Harlan. This whole close out thing was one of those wiggly little thoughts in the back of my tiny mind but admittedly it was your post on it that made me really think about it and doing something. So thanks twice!!

G

jiott
02-01-2022, 11:27 PM
FWIW, here's how I did the horizontal stab brace closeout: I just did like the manual says and glued in the aluminum reinforcing plate to the fabric, but only cut a small hole in the fabric for the brace. After it was all assembled and I could see how much movement was involved, I then enlarged the fabric cutout to just accommodate that much movement. No separate cover plate needed. I can see enough of the brace attachment thru the small hole to be able to inspect. If I ever need to, I can further enlarge the cutout. Simple.

Geek
02-02-2022, 07:26 AM
FWIW, here's how I did the horizontal stab brace closeout: I just did like the manual says and glued in the aluminum reinforcing plate to the fabric, but only cut a small hole in the fabric for the brace. After it was all assembled and I could see how much movement was involved, I then enlarged the fabric cutout to just accommodate that much movement. No separate cover plate needed. I can see enough of the brace attachment thru the small hole to be able to inspect. If I ever need to, I can further enlarge the cutout. Simple.

Yup that was another option but I kept asking myself........Will it stop a mud dobber?

Just funnin'. Certain it works and still gets you access for the inspection.

G

jiott
02-02-2022, 11:32 AM
Whether you use my method or your separate cover plate, the opening for the moving brace will have to be nearly identical, so mud dauber access is the same either way.

Geek
02-03-2022, 06:43 PM
Installed the baggage sack and baggage area floor boards. The floor boards are set into rivnuts which made getting it located and attached really easy. The plan is for my son (who sews climbing accessories and such) to install a zipper in the back section so later on I can easily access the back of the plane during inspections and such. I also installed the horizontal stab and elevator so that I could insure that my VHF antenna was clear of all the moving parts and start running the antenna cable. It also allowed me to figure out how I wanted to run my trim wiring from the motor towards the front of the plane. Got both to a point where I can now look how I want to run the wires along with some other items that I am installing (autopilot servos, transponder, trim booster and such). Where I spot tied the cables to the frame, I wrapped the frame at that point with silicone tape. Started working on the roll trim servo install by fabricating the bracket and getting the aluminum parts primed.


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Geek
02-06-2022, 03:15 PM
I fit and installed the autopilot control servo brackets on to the fuselage frame. Installed the servo on each bracket and located the assembly on the frame so that the connection rod for the servo to the controls was at a right angle to its connection at the control link. Pushes and pulls nice and straight on. John McBean had posted earlier on how the servo arm pass through hole in the bracket for the pitch servo might be a bit tight due to the powder coating and could possibly bind up the servo arm. I made sure to open that hole up a bit and verified that the servo arm was free and clear with the servo mounted fully to the bracket. Hysol'd and riveted the roll bracket. Hysol'd and used the hose clamps to install the pitch bracket on to the frame. Just for a bit of extra securing, I safety wired the hose clamps to preclude them loosening up later on from vibration.

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Geek
02-12-2022, 04:48 PM
Started some work on the tail access covers by making the small brackets and riveting them in place on the covers. Shot them with a coat of 2K primer and will start fitting them to the fuselage here soon. My mounts for the trim servos all cured so I installed the servos themselves and connected them up to the flight controls. Also started wiring them in slowly. Since the pitch servo is farthest back I started there. I am using the Garmin G3X which has the auto trim function but with the electrical current needed to run the trim motor, needed to install a TCW Trim Boost into the system. Decided to build a rear mounting tray for some of the electronics like the Trim Boost and the transponder (the IFF antenna is farther forward on the starboard side away from the roll servo so hopefully won't have any electrical interference). Got the tray bent up so the next steps will be to install it on to the fuselage and start mounting components.

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Geek
02-16-2022, 10:40 AM
Mounted the Safety Trim Boost unit on the rack. The other unit that I want to mount on this rack is the IFF. The piece of plywood is cut out to the same footprint as the GTX-45R that I am installing. The antenna for the IFF is farther forward, just behind the passenger seat so it is not close to the autopilot servos. My question to others who have done this before me is whether or not you had interference to the autopilot from the IFF unit itself or if the interference was from the antenna being located close to the servos. Since I don't have the 45R in hand (it's coming next month I believe), I have time to adjust the location should I need to.

Thanks to all who weigh in on this.

Gary

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VictorV
02-23-2022, 10:59 AM
This may be a stupid question but what is IFF?

Eric Page
02-23-2022, 11:07 AM
Identification, Friend or Foe. Some military transponders transmit encrypted code blocks that permit friendly radars to identify them as friendly; absent the correct code for the day/mission, they're ID'ed as hostile.

Geek
02-23-2022, 11:27 AM
Not a stupid question at all Victor and I apologize. As Eric points out, it's a military thing and I am guilty of thinking what I know it as and not what the civilian world calls it. I'm working on it. Really. The only thing wrong with Eric's explanation is how they're ID'd - We didn't call them hostile - they were "Targets":)

Gary

Geek
02-23-2022, 11:36 AM
Have been working on routing my wiring from the tail forward. Found some aluminum channel that I decided to use to keep from just hanging the wiring. Also installed (temporarily) the seat and center console just to be sure I didn't miss something in my planning. My daughter (Navy pilot) is home on leave and during our "Happy Hour", the wife (pilot in training) and daughter decided that I needed a pic with pilots installed. Part of the process I guess.

Geek

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VictorV
02-23-2022, 12:04 PM
I was aware of the IFF acronym as military but wanted to make sure that was what you referring to :)

A friend of mine had a transponder that was not configured correctly and was identifying as a Russian aircraft
so ATC was a little confused. I guess that's "Foe".

Victor

Geek
02-27-2022, 05:39 PM
I have been fabricating various mounting brackets for the avionics and getting a better handle on how I will be running the wiring up to the front of the fuselage. Completed the mount for the GPS-20 unit behind the pilot seat and built up the two plates where I will mount the headset sockets for both the pilot and copilot. Still have to drill the holes for the connections but at least have the brackets built. I Hysol'd in the aluminum channels that will go under the seat and support the wiring going forward.

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Geek
03-01-2022, 09:01 PM
Installed the GPS-20 mount behind the pilot's seat and also did a final fitting on the headset mounts. All that's left there is to drill the holes for the jacks and the USB power I am going to put on the pilot's side. One of my issues in setting up the wiring is figuring out how long the various wire runs should be without having a lot of the stuff actually mounted (like the panel and the left/right avionics trays). I saw this idea on You Tube (where else?) and thought it might have some merit so I gave it a go. Ran paracord from the various places that I know things are going to be mounted and how the wires will be routed forward to the panel/trays. You run a main line from the farthest aft item to the front and then tie on offshoots from that main to the other items moving forward. For example I ran the cord from the trim power/transponder all the way up to the panel area just like I expect to run the actual wire. Then I moved forward and tied a piece of cord from that main cord over to the GPS-20. Did the same for the control stick wiring, head sets, etc. Once you have all that done, you remove the cord and what you have is a "tree" that lets you figure how long the wire needs to be to get from the panel/avionics trays to the various items and hopefully not have a lot of extra wire you just cut off or worse, wire not quite long enough. I did all that and it seems to be a pretty easy method of getting the wire lengths dialed in.

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Geek
03-05-2022, 06:56 PM
Took another good look at the mounts I had made previously for my headset connections and realized that they weren't going to work with the baggage bag and they were about a half inch away from the flaperon control rod that runs through that section. So I came up with a different bracket. This bracket fits much lower in the same area by the rear windows but is cut to allow the baggage bag attachment, farther away from the flaperon control rod and will clear the connectors for the headsets when they are installed. The bag will fit over the plate that gets Hysol'd on to the frame and I'll just cut holes in the bag to pass the connectors through. On top of the bag after it's installed, I have a second plate that is drilled to mount the connectors themselves; normal headset and mic jacks, a LEMO connector and a 3.5mm jack that I can connect GoPros to and record the intercom and radio. The plate will screw into that lower plate that has nut plates installed. The plate will also squeeze the bag between the two plates to keep it from fraying. I also managed to get the roll servo wired up as well. Tomorrow it will probably be the GPS 20 that gets some wiring done to it.

DesertFox4
03-05-2022, 07:23 PM
Looking good Gary.
One thought on headset jack placement. If you put headset jacks behind the pilot's head, they will be virtually unreachable in flight. A jack or headset failure in flight will become an issue. Many now put both sets of jacks behind the co-pilot's seat so they may be reached easily in flight by the pilot. I had my pilot push to talk switch die on final once. Just reached over and unplugged my headset from the pilot's jacks and plugged into the others and used the co-pilot's push to talk switch to complete the landing. The control tower never knew the difference.

Geek
03-06-2022, 07:47 AM
Thanks Steve.
I had thought about that but I figured that most of the time if I am out playing, the wife is not going to let me go with an empty seat so there would be another (hopefully) working headset sitting right there. Instead of trying to swap plugs I would swap headsets. Of course Murphy being the fine fellow he is, will probably bite me one of those few times I am flying single seat so I'll just have to remember to throw the wife's headset in.

Gary

Geek
03-14-2022, 06:44 PM
Took a little time off from the plane to go visit my cousins in Phoenix and as a bonus, got to see Steve's (DesertFox4) Kitfox. The real bonus for that little trip was Steve and I got to take a little flight around the area. The mountains around Sedona are really beautiful so that was a very cool flight. Today I got to get back to my plane. Installed the cables for the pilot and copilot headsets, tie wrapped them to the fuselage down to the wiring channel. Ran them through the wiring channel to the front of the fuselage so once I install the avionics, they will be ready to connect. The baggage sack will get the holes cut in it to clear the jacks. Then the jacks are installed into the upper plate which will cover the holes in the sack and hold the jacks securely. The empty hole on the plate is for my 3.5mm recording jack that I can connect a GoPro to and record intercom and radio. I put a jack on each side since I think the GoPro mount can move around some. Not shown but I also installed the baggage sack so this time I am certain that the mounts won't interfere with the sack attachment points.

Gary


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DesertFox4
03-15-2022, 05:33 PM
👍Nicely done jack plates.

Geek
03-21-2022, 09:49 AM
Been a bit busy with those household things that have to be done after being closed up all Winter but did manage to at least get some work done mounting my GPS antenna for the GPS 20. The mount was a bit more fun to build since where I was putting it had no right angles that I could reference (hence the ruler clamped down the center of the opening). Got the basic shape dialed in with paper and then moved on to cardboard to get the sides right. Finally cut it out and bent it up in a pan brake. I made this mount out of .032 6061-T6 since the antenna isn't exactly a heavyweight and the loads were distributed on three of the four sides (OK fine..... it was easier to make and fit using the thinner material) I decided however to add a doubler for the actual antenna mount out of .063. I patterned it after the doubler that Garmin spec'd for externally skin mounting the antenna to aircraft. Got the doubler riveted in and mounted the antenna. The antenna will be covered by the baggage sack but should not have any impact on the ability to receive L Band GPS signals.



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Geek
03-29-2022, 11:40 AM
I opted for the two point door latches and what a pain to get them installed. Almost wish I had just gone with the single point latch. Had to cut an access in my bubble door windows which was certainly not my favorite thing to do. Getting the fore/aft rods dialed in so that they operated easily took a lot of time and patience. One of the issues was installing the spring on the forward rod. Turns out the washer that the spring pushes up against the guide bracket does not sit straight. It hits the bracket which makes it sit at an angle to the shaft and causes it to drag and act like a brake. The fix was to file a notch in the washer to clear the bracket and let it sit flat to the bracket and straight on the shaft. Finally have both doors done and back in storage. Back to doing fun stuff.

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airlina
03-29-2022, 02:43 PM
Gary, in the end i think you will be happy with the dual pin system even though initial install is tougher. Way back when (late 90's) I went to the Skystar factory for a demo flight , one of the kitfox squawks i had on my test card was that I was able to open the aft end of the door with a push of my elbow in flight on the single latch setup. As I was building my Series 5 , one of the skystar engineers came up with the dual pin system and even though they weren't offering it on production aircraft , I convinced him to send me his drawings for this setup. The real pain was making my own from scratch which as i recall took 2 weeks or so. Some trial and error later I had them fitted and these last 20 years was glad i went that route. The extra work will be worth it in the long run. Bruce N199CL

Geek
03-29-2022, 05:06 PM
Hope you're right Bruce. I know I look at them now and think they are a solid way of latching the door and am glad they are done but there were some times there that I was tempted to give the doors a toss off the hill here so they were would have more flight time than the plane once I finished it.

Gary

Kitfox Pilot
03-29-2022, 05:54 PM
Floorboards are in so it was time to install the rudder pedals. Got the position dialed in on the fuselage by centering the center pivot/bearing and then working on the ends where I found the least resistance to the pedal movement. Clamped that down and then checked the overall assembly to see if it was straight across or a bit cattywompus (technical term). Turns out it was fine - maybe a 1/16" out of line which I attributed to the bearings on the center and end brackets. Drilled the holes for the end brackets and then clamped in the forward floorboard and match drilled it up from the bottom. Temporarily installed the pedal assembly and then shimmed using 3/4" dia fender washers under the brackets to improve the pedal movement. The right side took no shims, the center took 1 shim and the left took 3. Finalized installing the bearing brackets and then located and installed the two brackets for the master brake cylinders using a 1/8" drill to get the proper separation between the bracket and the rudder tubes. Ended up with some very smooth rudder pedals which is great. Lots of putting in and taking out of the assembly to get it dialed in.

Gary, the black poly you sent me for the rudder pedals, did you leave them full thickness? I am ready to install them to help me stay off the brakes. Thanks Harlan

Geek
03-29-2022, 08:53 PM
Gary, the black poly you sent me for the rudder pedals, did you leave them full thickness? I am ready to install them to help me stay off the brakes. Thanks Harlan

I did leave them the full half inch. I think John Evans (who I copied these from) also had his about a half inch as well. I attached them using 10-32 machine screws, a piece of rubber that I cut in a circle and a fender washer. Held them perfectly in the holes on the pedal.

Gary

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Kitfox Pilot
03-30-2022, 05:54 AM
I did leave them the full half inch. I think John Evans (who I copied these from) also had his about a half inch as well. I attached them using 10-32 machine screws, a piece of rubber that I cut in a circle and a fender washer. Held them perfectly in the holes on the pedal.

Gary

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Thanks, that is very good info. After doing my tailwheel training I think these will help very much staying off the brakes when brakes are not needed!

Geek
04-10-2022, 03:29 PM
Have been neglecting my airplane work due to real work (the kind that pays for the airplane work) and Winter clean up on the property. But today the weather gods cooperated (meaning it snowed this morning and rained all afternoon) so I was able to go play in the shop. My goal is to finish off stuff in the fuselage so that I can start doing the covering. I ordered and received my Oratex glue so now I am on the clock so to speak. I final installed the rear equipment tray for the trim boost and (later on) the transponder. I have the wiring there so was able to get that set up. Just need to put the pins in the connector for the transponder - all marked and ready - just need the connector. I also ran the static line from the back where the static ports are going, up to the front where they connect into the Garmin. Guess I really didn't realize how much stuff is at the rear of the plane that needs to go up to the front. My coil of wire, coax and other stuff is getting bigger and bigger up front all the time. I also started installing the header tank for the fuel system. There is a drain on the bottom of the tank that has a fixture that attaches to the skin of the aircraft so I need that installed before I can cover. In getting the tank ready to install, I didn't like the way it mounted with respect to parts of the fuselage. I initially thought a 1/4 inch spacer between the fuselage mounting tab and the tank would do the trick but once I fabricated one up, I thought a 1/8 inch spacer would be better. As it turned out, three of the four attachment points got the 1/8 inch spacer and one got a 1/4 inch spacer to make up for a little more of a gap between the tank and the one mounting tab. Just made the tank set better and now the fuselage structure won't vibrate against the tank because it doesn't touch it. The bonus is that it appears tomorrow might actually be a shop day as well!!!

P.S. AlexM if you are reading this - THANK YOU for your Oratex videos with all your lessons learned. Bet I have watched 22 and 23 at least three times!! Between you and Harlan I have hope that my covering might work out!!

Gary

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Kitfox Pilot
04-10-2022, 07:18 PM
I'm betting you do a real good job on the oratex!

alexM
04-10-2022, 11:50 PM
Gary I read all the build threads and watch all the videos I can find. Harlan has been an inspiration and very helpful. I watched his glare shield fitting video today.

Geek
04-11-2022, 09:22 AM
Gary I read all the build threads and watch all the videos I can find. Harlan has been an inspiration and very helpful. I watched his glare shield fitting video today.

Yeah well like I said - thank you for taking the time to do those vids and then share them with the rest of us. Huge help.

G

Geek
04-14-2022, 02:22 PM
Not a lot of visible progress. Doing a lot of prep work on metal parts and getting the aluminum stuff primed with 2K primer. Did the final fabrication on the spacers for the header tank. The three 1/8 inch and one 1/4 inch spacer worked perfectly. Hysol'd the spacers to the tank mounting tabs, primer and painted the tank, installed the fittings and mounted it into the fuselage. Holds the tank away from the fuselage structure about 1/8 inch all the way around. Now I can mount the drain hose and skin reinforcement for when I start my covering.

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Geek
04-20-2022, 10:14 AM
Not a lot of work done and the real reason for this is just to note that I received my 912is yesterday!! Yahoo! I am also starting to layout my panel. Slowly. Last but not least - I added a mount for a trim tab on the rudder. The wood in the pic is to make sure the mount is flush with the skin when I do my covering. Right now the plan is to leave the engine in the box for storage till I need it. Don't think I see my firewall forward kit till June or July. Is there anything I should be doing to the engine other than that?

Gary

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rv9ralph
04-20-2022, 03:34 PM
Congratulations on receiving your new 912iS.

Just a suggestion, but you should check the SB from Rotax on the iS engine fuel pumps. Check your serial numbers and if replacement is called for, this is a good time to get it done before you put your new engine in service. (Replacement is free, except shipping out, LEAF (Leading Edge AirFoils) is an authorized service center.)

Ralph

Kitfox Pilot
04-20-2022, 06:40 PM
Gary, I was very impressed with that engine when I took my tailwheel training. The standard winged kitfox didn't seem to matter what we did the fuel burn showed 3.5 per hour. Very impressive hp for the fuel burn.
Everything your doing is looking good!

Geek
04-21-2022, 11:06 AM
Gary, I was very impressed with that engine when I took my tailwheel training. The standard winged kitfox didn't seem to matter what we did the fuel burn showed 3.5 per hour. Very impressive hp for the fuel burn.
Everything your doing is looking good!

Thanks Harlan. Probably not as impressive as that 915 of yours but since have already been fast, I am thinking this will be perfect

Gary

Geek
04-21-2022, 11:09 AM
Congratulations on receiving your new 912iS.

Just a suggestion, but you should check the SB from Rotax on the iS engine fuel pumps. Check your serial numbers and if replacement is called for, this is a good time to get it done before you put your new engine in service. (Replacement is free, except shipping out, LEAF (Leading Edge AirFoils) is an authorized service center.)

Ralph

Good idea Ralph. I saw that SB here on the forum and was hoping that since the engine was literally brand new, I would be good to go. But...... better to check it. Appreciate the input.

Gary

efwd
04-23-2022, 07:27 AM
Gary, I recieved my 912iS two years prior to first run. My manual states the engine should be prepared for long storage every two years even in the crate. Warranty would be questionable if you don't do the long storage preparation. My warranty expired after one year from purchase as well.

Geek
04-23-2022, 09:23 AM
Gary, I recieved my 912iS two years prior to first run. My manual states the engine should be prepared for long storage every two years even in the crate. Warranty would be questionable if you don't do the long storage preparation. My warranty expired after one year from purchase as well.

I think I had read this about your engine before Eddie. I think too that we both had the same reason for ordering it when we did; the price was going to go up. I'll keep an eye on it and with some luck I can get it run early next year. But that will certainly take some luck. If I don't then I'll just suck it up and know that I am in the boat I am in but made a conscious decision to get there.

Gary

Geek
05-03-2022, 06:05 PM
Did the trim motor screw adjustment. Used the battery from my Jeep to run the trim motor full nose up and setting the distance between the horizontal stab and the fuselage frame using a block I had cut that it was 7/16 of an inch. Ran the trim full down to verify full motion. Disconnected the trim motor from the horizontal stab and used another block to set the distance from the stab to the fuselage from at 1 and 5/16 inch. With that clamped in place, I rigged the elevator controls to spec. With that done, I was able to center my autopilot servo and install the servo arm stop.

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My GTX-45R transponder is on back order until mid-July or so. My plan is to mount the unit just behind the baggage sack on a plate I fabricated back there. I have been slowly getting things together to start skinning the fuselage and that got me to thinking what a pain that was going to be to install the transponder with the skin on. I asked Stein (who I bought all my avionics from) if I could possibly get the accessories kit for the transponder now so I could get it all ready to go and they shipped it to me. I fabricated the brackets to hold the mount and made sure that the unit points directly towards the cockpit. The Bluetooth antenna is located on the front of the transponder and communicates the ADSB In information to my iPad that way.

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alexM
05-03-2022, 06:56 PM
Dang, that is some nice sheet metal work.

jiott
05-03-2022, 10:14 PM
Gary, I'm pretty sure after flying awhile you are going to want to set your trim adjustment not by the book, but so it almost kisses the bottom of the slots in the tail access panels when fully bottomed out. You will need all the nose-up trim you can get when using full flaps (and nearly so even with half flaps). This setting still gives you plenty of nose-down trim. Just sayin.

Geek
05-04-2022, 05:42 AM
Dang, that is some nice sheet metal work. Thanks Alex.


Gary, I'm pretty sure after flying awhile you are going to want to set your trim adjustment not by the book, but so it almost kisses the bottom of the slots in the tail access panels when fully bottomed out. You will need all the nose-up trim you can get when using full flaps (and nearly so even with half flaps). This setting still gives you plenty of nose-down trim. Just sayin. Good to know Jim and thanks. After reading about some other's experiences, I thinking about that when I set it but like everything else experimental, once I'm done building just means I can still 'adjust'.

bbs428
05-04-2022, 11:27 AM
I appreciate the nice sheet metal work as well. Good of Stein to work with you on the gtx-45r mount.

Geek
05-04-2022, 07:57 PM
Thanks Brett. I was really pleased when Stein so quickly said yes and then shipped it the same day. I finished fitting the rack in today and started wiring the connector. The whole time thinking if I had had to do this wiring laying on the baggage floor with a light strapped to my head that my shop would not be a safe place for any other living creatures.

Gary

Geek
05-28-2022, 04:32 PM
I went with a different design of the fuel site gauge from the Kitfox version. One of the forum members came up with this alternate version which allows you to just slip it on and screw it to the rib. I apologize because I saw this idea on the forum back when I was reading everything I could find while waiting for my kit to be delivered. The member posted a pic which I copied so I had some record of the idea but I didn't make a note of who it was and I can't find it again. Thank you to whoever it was. The modified plate just seemed easier and cleaner to me so I did it that way. I also safety wired and Hysol'd my wiring troughs to the frame while I had the fuselage off the roll around cart.

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efwd
05-30-2022, 10:16 AM
Hi Gary, wish I had made mine that way. FWIW, I would consider using the padded adel clamps for anything wrapping around the frame tubing. You will find that the wire will cut through the tape eventually. I found I had to replace those that I had done that way and I was using zip ties.

Geek
05-30-2022, 01:49 PM
Hi Gary, wish I had made mine that way. FWIW, I would consider using the padded adel clamps for anything wrapping around the frame tubing. You will find that the wire will cut through the tape eventually. I found I had to replace those that I had done that way and I was using zip ties.

Thanks Eddie - The tape is industrial grade vulcanizing tape that the Navy uses in the engine bay of Hornets. The one pic of just wire and no Hysol was before I added the Hysol. The thought was that it would dampen the vibrations that would make the wire cut through. At least that's the thought. I have been using that tape and lacing tape (tie wrap) everywhere I have attached my electrical to the frame. Maybe the right idea is to cut the safety wire out. I really just put the wire there originally to hold the channel in place for when I flipped the fuselage over to Hysol the channels. Think I'll do that rather than leave it to chance. Thanks again for making me think about that.

Gary

Geek
05-30-2022, 03:30 PM
It's amazing how your perspective changes when you get a different view of something. I had pulled my fuselage off my roll around cart and flipped it over to gain access to the bottom of my wiring channels so I could Hysol them. Looking at my wiring from the bottom up, I really didn't like how the wires exited the channel and crossed under the control column crossover. In a bundle like they were, they were rubbing more than I thought was a good thing. I was lucky enough to travel down to Homedale and pick up my firewall forward kit at Kitfox which allowed me to see Brandon and pick his brain on how they addressed this part of the wiring on a factory build. Brandon indicated that they "fan" the wires out so they go under the column spread out rather than in a bundle. Made sense but when I got home and looked at how my channel was positioned right next to the column I realized there wasn't going to be any kind of fanning. The channel was just too close to the crossover and the wires were held into a bundle. Only solution was to pull the channel out (heat gun and remove the Hysol), cut the channel back and then re-install the channel so that the mouth was about 3 inches or so back from the control column crossover. Now I can fan the wires out a bit and it's a lot better. Second thing I saw with the fuselage upside down was that the rivets holding my roll autopilot servo stuck up and looked like they would hit the skin of the aircraft once I shrunk the skin down. I put a straight edge on that area and while it didn't hit, it was less than 1/32" away. So I laid a layer of Hysol down and then on top of that I laid a layer of fill. I sanded that all down so that I could just see the very edges of the rivets, and primed it with 2K primer. Now the rivets won't run against the skin. That last pic is for Eddie - I took your advice and got rid of the safety wire around the fuselage frame. Hysol holds the channel just fine.

Gary

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Geek
05-30-2022, 03:42 PM
Here's the pic of the laker leading edge trim at rib 1

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SNOW JW
05-30-2022, 03:49 PM
Thanks!!

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

alexM
05-30-2022, 09:40 PM
You didn't just want to go at that channel with a 3" cut off wheel, what with all the wires and nice powder coating nearby?

I hope you had more places for a $28 can of 2k primer than just that small area. That stuff is more expensive than gasoline.

Geek
05-31-2022, 06:32 AM
You didn't just want to go at that channel with a 3" cut off wheel, what with all the wires and nice powder coating nearby?

I hope you had more places for a $28 can of 2k primer than just that small area. That stuff is more expensive than gasoline.

That's exactly what I didn't want to do for exactly the reasons I didn't want to do it!! I was very aware of what the downside was to that. As for the primer - oh yeah. Like I said I have a list of the small parts I've made that need primer and when the can gets popped - the list comes out. I will admit this time that I am testing the statement that the primer is good for three days after mixing cause I want to paint the fiberglass fairing on the vertical stab but it was a touch wet outside yesterday. Today will be OK I think.

Geek
06-01-2022, 05:07 PM
Rigged the elevator today. Book calls for 20 degrees down elevator and 39 degrees up. I set mine up for 18 degrees down and 41 degrees up since reports from other pilots indicate that the STi likes to run out of nose up pitch authority on landing. Figured 18 down was more than enough to get the nose down on takeoff and 41 was just a little more I might like on landing. Set the control stick as required by the instructions at 80 degrees with the elevator in a neutral state. Installed the stop on the pitch servo for the autopilot so that at full elevator deflection, the arm just misses touching the stop by maybe 1/32nd of an inch.

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alexM
06-01-2022, 05:57 PM
Nice. I figure I'll fly mine set to the book numbers and adjust if necessary. I used a digital protractor to set mine also. Makes the job cake because you don't even have to level the fuselage to use it.

Geek
06-01-2022, 08:05 PM
Level the fuselage? I just set the horizontal using the 1 5/16 spacer the book calls out, set the elevator to level flight (by sight - best guess), and used the number of degrees the level was telling me I was at as a zero reference. In my case it was 8.5 degrees down so my down angle was 26.5 degrees and my up was 32.5. Which is just what you were saying is my guess. You can probably zero the digital protractor so you aren't stuck with doing public math. My guess is that it won't make much difference since the quoted numbers in the book had a plus or minus 1 degree variance to them.

alexM
06-02-2022, 05:57 PM
We're sort of on the same page. I set a straight edge across the stab and elevator, and clamped them so the elevator was perfectly straight in trail. The slapped the digital level to the elevator using the magnetic feature, zeroed it with a button push and then removed the straight edge.

At that point I could read the elevator deflection directly on the digital level. None of that hard math stuff.

Geek
06-08-2022, 04:27 PM
I have heard that fitting the tail inspection panels is a pain - there is truth to that rumor. Took two days to get them in the way I like them and fit. Lots of putting them in, checking the fit of the horizontal stab and elevator in the full trim range, seeing where the panels interfered with the stab and elevator, removing the panel, trimming and re-installing. Just to do it again when it still wasn't right. It's not a flat surface to this panel so that complicates it a bit. I found that once I had it pretty close, I started making reference lines on the panel and the fuselage so that I could come back after trimming and place the panel exactly where it was when I pulled it out. Lots of clamps and clecos but they are fitted to the fuselage now.

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Geek
06-09-2022, 05:03 PM
Finishing up some stuff today that I had started on earlier but didn't totally complete. I had installed the rack for the transponder, built the ground plane for the antenna and then never installed the antenna and the antenna cable. (removed the antenna so I can skin the fuselage but left the ground plane well grounded to the fuselage) So that was first on today's list. I had built some close outs for the horizontal stab braces using an older Kitfox version as a model. (I liked it better than the current one) Installed the bracket on the stab and made the plates to close them out but never opened up the space to pass through the brace. That hole has to clear the brace during the whole trim range of motion. So that was second on the list and got both side completed and ran the trim through the full range to verify the clearance. The third thing on the list required beer. I successfully completed that as well.

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Geek
06-20-2022, 02:51 PM
Finally got home and was able to work on the plane again. Still working things that get me ready to start the skinning. I wired and installed the bracket for the ELT, painted the inboard section of my wings and tail section inspection panels silver to match the skin. I also mortgaged my house to buy two sheets of plywood to set up a table to layout and cut my larger pieces of Oratex. I unpacked the roll of Oratex so the actual start of skinning is now truly in sight.

Looking forward to meeting some of you all at the Fly In!!

Gary

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alexM
06-20-2022, 03:58 PM
Great progress. Maybe when you're done you can sell the plywood and buy a gallon of gas.

Geek
06-20-2022, 05:35 PM
Great progress. Maybe when you're done you can sell the plywood and buy a gallon of gas.

I like your thinking!!! But it'll have to a half gallon since I have a diesel.

G

Geek
06-30-2022, 11:06 AM
So first off, those of you who didn't get to go to the Fly In - I heartily encourage you to put it on your calendar for 2024 (they happen every two years). It was exactly the great time that you would expect Debra, John, Heather, Brandon and the rest of the Kitfox crew to put on. Not to mention meeting some of you that I only know from here. I finally got to start on skinning. Cut my first piece of Oratex, marked off where the glue need to go, laid down the glue and let it dry three hours. Then I applied the second coat of glue which also got to dry. Going to lay down the glue on the right wing and once that has two coats that have dried, I will get to attach my first piece. While waiting for the glue to dry, I attached the clips to my tail inspection panel opening that will allow me to use 6-32 screws to hold the panel. They attached pretty securely but I did put a dab of Hysol on them just for insurance. I also assembled my battery box just cause I could. Last but not least, one of the benefits of the Kitfox Factory Fly In was being able to take a very close look at an almost assembled factory build aircraft. That let me see some of the little tricks Brandon and crew use when building those. One of the takeaways was a small opening up of the forward floorboard that allows you access to the nut when you attach the landing gear. So you know I took max pics of stuff and today I did my floorboards.

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alexM
06-30-2022, 03:13 PM
Nice. Bummed I didn't go. Can I assume that battery box is a factory offering? Looks great.

Geek
06-30-2022, 03:53 PM
Nice. Bummed I didn't go. Can I assume that battery box is a factory offering? Looks great.

Yes it was a good time Alex. Lots of good people. That is the Gucci battery box that comes with the 912is firewall forward.

rv9ralph
06-30-2022, 05:11 PM
I agree on attending the Kitfox Factory Fly-in. This was my third and every time I enjoy meeting those that are only typed here on the Forum. Gary, it was great getting to talk to you and sharing build information in person while looking at how the Factory does it.

Geek
06-30-2022, 05:56 PM
I agree on attending the Kitfox Factory Fly-in. This was my third and every time I enjoy meeting those that are only typed here on the Forum. Gary, it was great getting to talk to you and sharing build information in person while looking at how the Factory does it.

Same same Ralph. (really wanted to call you Senior but......respect anyway)


G

rv9ralph
06-30-2022, 09:25 PM
(really wanted to call you Senior but....

You really are trying to make me feel old! :) Chief always works.

DesertFox4
07-01-2022, 10:45 AM
Gary, nice progress. Good luck with covering process.
Great to see you and Mrs. "Geek" at the fly in. Hopefully the next factory fly in will have your Kitfox parked in the line up and Sandra will have her license. BTW, I fixed a couple of your Oratex photos so they are right side up.

Ralph, always nice to see you again. My best to Darlene. Sorry I had to head home before seeing yours and Victor's project.

Geek
07-01-2022, 12:38 PM
Gary, nice progress. Good luck with covering process.
Great to see you and Mrs. "Geek" at the fly in. Hopefully the next factory fly in will have your Kitfox parked in the line up and Sandra will have her license. BTW, I fixed a couple of your Oratex photos so they are right side up.

Ralph, always nice to see you again. My best to Darlene. Sorry I had to head home before seeing yours and Victor's project.

Thanks Steve. Was great to join up on you again after our trip to Sedona. Hopefully your timeline is correct on our plane and Sandra's license. Thanks for fixing the pics.

G

Geek
07-07-2022, 03:30 PM
Put it off long enough. Ran out of excuses to hold short on covering. Started on the right wing (no real plumbing like pitot tube etc.) with the bottom panel. I covered the whole Laker leading edge (yes I copied Harlan) and with the help of my wife, we pulled and stretched the Oratex to get it glued on to the frame. Then we did the same for the top panel. So now it's all covered but hasn't been tightened. Oratex wants you to wait 24 hours at least for the glue to fully cure before you go back with the heat gun and tighten up the skin. You got to know it's tempting cause you really want to see it done. The wife did come up with the major rule for this - Don't hurry. So maybe on Saturday I'll get to fire up the heat gun and tighten it all up.

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Kitfox Pilot
07-07-2022, 05:37 PM
Looking really good Gary. Did you heat gun or Iron the laker leading edge?
Good help makes oratex go much better for sure, glad you have a good helper!

alexM
07-07-2022, 06:28 PM
I'm sure you did it right, but for anyone else reading: The open areas can wait to be shrunk but wherever that stuff is in contact with the wing, if you hit it with heat you need to stay on it until it's fully stuck down. Above 50C it has been activated and the curing has started, with no way to stop it.

You can't open a can of pop and come back tomorrow to drink it.

Temperature, pressure and time (slow rolling over every inch) - all important. So while you can and should take your time you have to stick it out on each piece until it's stuck good.

Geek
07-07-2022, 06:48 PM
Looking really good Gary. Did you heat gun or Iron the laker leading edge?
Good help makes oratex go much better for sure, glad you have a good helper!

Thanks Harlan. I used the iron. Tried the heat gun but just didn't think I had the control to put the heat where I wanted it without possibly screwing up the fiberglass. I took a look at your vids again and saw how you were doing it with the iron and thought that was more what I had in mind. I will use the gun to do the shrinking. You are so right in that you can't beat good help. Sure made the whole thing a lot easier and kept those nasty air bubbles at bay!

Geek
07-07-2022, 06:53 PM
I'm sure you did it right, but for anyone else reading: The open areas can wait to be shrunk but wherever that stuff is in contact with the wing, if you hit it with heat you need to stay on it until it's fully stuck down. Above 50C it has been activated and the curing has started, with no way to stop it.

You can't open a can of pop and come back tomorrow to drink it.

Temperature, pressure and time (slow rolling over every inch) - all important. So while you can and should take your time you have to stick it out on each piece until it's stuck good.

Yeah I did tacking at 90C with the iron which was a good number for getting the glue to activate, not mess up the fiberglass on the Laker leading edge, and was easy to control - keeping it slow. The book has a good illustration of how fast you should be moving the iron which made it pretty easy. As for shrinking, the book say that heating the glue starts the activation but it takes around 24 hours for the whole activation process to fully cure. Which is why I'm waiting till Saturday since I finished later this afternoon and don't want to push it.

Geek
07-09-2022, 08:01 PM
Finished shrinking the starboard wing Oratex and attached the wing tip mounting strips. Big thanks to Harlan (again) for his video on opening the holes for the rivets with a soldering iron and then while it's still hot, pressing a rivet in to seat the hot fabric into the countersunk hole.. I remember back when I fabricated the strips where I read on the forum that care needed to be taken placing the rearmost nutplates so that they do not interfere with each other. As I was attaching the strips, I was thankful to whomever posted that because they are close and could easily cause issues. Happy with the way the wing turned out and felt much better starting on the port wing. That one is a bit more complicated since the pitot system, OAT probe and the GMU11 are located on that wing and need to be installed before closing the wing up. Needed to run the wiring for the heated pitot tube down behind the gas tank before covering the lower half of the wing. The rest of the stuff gets installed before the upper half gets installed.


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Kitfox Pilot
07-09-2022, 08:09 PM
It sure looks like a nice job Gary. Your are at the mid point in your build IMO.

DesertFox4
07-10-2022, 11:25 AM
Looking good Gary. Good progress.

Geek
07-10-2022, 04:02 PM
Looking good Gary. Good progress.

Thanks Steve. Started the port wing today and as with all things where you have done it once, the second time seems easier.

G

Geek
07-15-2022, 04:04 PM
Covered the lower half of the port wing, let it sit for 24 hours and then this morning I tightened it up. Then came the part of plumbing and installing wiring in the wing. I installed the mast as well as the pitot tube/AOA itself. Ran the tubing to the outboard edge of the wing where I will route it down the aft spar later. Installed the Outside Air Temp (OAT) sensor and ran the wiring for that to the outboard edge of the wing. Installed the magnetometer and its wiring cable. At the outside edge of the wing, I combined the OAT, Magnetometer and the Landing/Navigation light wiring all into one covered cable that will route down the aft spar along with the pitot tubing. Next up will be to go back and check/test all the wiring so I am certain it's all good. Once that's done, I'll cover the top of the port wing.

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Geek
07-31-2022, 09:39 AM
As usual, work has managed to get in the way to any real meaningful progress on the Kitfox but finally got back to the shop. Finished all the plumbing and wiring in the left wing and got it fully covered. So now the left and right wing are completely covered. I am still on the fence about stitching the fabric to the ribs. I have read where the Oratex adhesive is more than sufficient and other places where it's just a good idea to do it. Any observations on this are welcomed. Doing a bit more research and have a call into Lars (Mr. Oratex himself) to discuss that but he is at Osh so he and I will talk after he gets home. (Note that when I emailed him, he was in Germany but willing to call me to talk. Just couldn't see bothering him while he was on vacation so we agreed to talk after Osh. He has been very responsive to questions and such) I also installed the trim booster brackets between the elevator pushrod and the flaps. Added in the kit hose clamps after Hysoling the bracket and safety wired the screws. This mod helps with the back pressure on the stick during landing/approach. There is a spring to be installed between the bracket and the fitting on the flap control. Right now I am leaving the spring off as words of wisdom from the factory suggest that it's better to wait till after the final rigging of the controls to where you want them in flight test before adding in the spring.

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rv9ralph
07-31-2022, 10:33 AM
Gary, a few notes.

On the rib stitching, I suggest contacting the DAR you plan to use and see if he will sign it off without stitching. If he won't, it doesn't matter what Lars recommends.

On the trim assist spring... stretching it and getting it hooked is a bear. Recommend to remove the eye bolt from the bell crank, hook the spring onto both ends, then stretching it and inserting the eye bolt. It may take a few tries... but it is easier than stretching and trying to hook it on.

Progress is looking good.

Shadowrider
07-31-2022, 03:11 PM
Gary it’s looking good. The only complaint I have with Oratex is when your wing gets cold you will more than likely have some loose areas that will need to be re-shrunk. Cory spent hours shrinking every square inch and didn’t have to come back. I had to re-shrink mine when winter arrived. I found the iron is best to get it the tightest, or cover every square inch with the heat gun.

In the build manual under covering, rib stitching is “recommended” but it’s not required.

We didn’t rib stitch our wings because of this and the recommendation of Lars. I know this is a sensitive subject but we have not had an issues and no regrets in this regard. Did have some finish tape on my tail started to lift. Was going to just replace it but decided to try and save it. Happy to report my glue is still good. I taped off the area and used a small model paint brush to apply some glue on the tail and was able to get the lifting finish tape to reattach.

Geek
08-01-2022, 05:48 AM
Gary, a few notes.

On the rib stitching, I suggest contacting the DAR you plan to use and see if he will sign it off without stitching. If he won't, it doesn't matter what Lars recommends.

On the trim assist spring... stretching it and getting it hooked is a bear. Recommend to remove the eye bolt from the bell crank, hook the spring onto both ends, then stretching it and inserting the eye bolt. It may take a few tries... but it is easier than stretching and trying to hook it on.

Progress is looking good.

Thanks Chief.... good tip on the spring. I thought about that and having to get a grip on it with the fuselage all covered and what not. Your idea makes good sense. As for the DAR, that's probably a good idea as well. Have heard some stories about DARs who are not familiar with Oratex and have some wonky thoughts on it. Guess the first thing I need to do is find one. I looked for an EAA Advisor back when I started and there just isn't one around here. Hopefully a DAR won't be a similar experience.

G

Geek
08-01-2022, 05:56 AM
Gary it’s looking good. The only complaint I have with Oratex is when your wing gets cold you will more than likely have some loose areas that will need to be re-shrunk. Cory spent hours shrinking every square inch and didn’t have to come back. I had to re-shrink mine when winter arrived. I found the iron is best to get it the tightest, or cover every square inch with the heat gun.

In the build manual under covering, rib stitching is “recommended” but it’s not required.

We didn’t rib stitch our wings because of this and the recommendation of Lars. I know this is a sensitive subject but we have not had an issues and no regrets in this regard. Did have some finish tape on my tail started to lift. Was going to just replace it but decided to try and save it. Happy to report my glue is still good. I taped off the area and used a small model paint brush to apply some glue on the tail and was able to get the lifting finish tape to reattach.

Dustin - Yeah I was looking at your plane at the Fly In and confirmed what I thought you had said in your build - that the stitching was left off. I'll have that chat with Lars here in a bit and see what he says as well. I did the same as your brother - pre-shrunk the Oratex with the gun and then used the iron set at 160 degrees C and did it again. That really did tighten things up nicely. Be interesting to see what happens here this Winter when the wings see some cold. I have been pretty impressed with the glue and its ability to stick after you heat it up. I have used the same idea with the small brush on some of the reinforcing tape around things that stick out and it seems to work really well.

G

alexM
08-01-2022, 06:20 PM
I've got a DAR for you. Nate Ashton used him and I've coordinated to have him inspect my plane.

Did you do any peel tests to validate your technique, adhesive etc? I've done the math and with my peel tests I'm at a 10X margin for strength, so I've got no plans to rib stitch.

I'm back from my first two week rotation and I'm headed to Wenatchee tomorrow. Let me know if you'll be around. I could make the extra few miles and meet up with you.

Geek
08-02-2022, 05:42 AM
I'm here all day Alex. Would be great to meet up.

G