View Full Version : Geek's STi Build
Still working on getting some of the small stuff done with with programming the Garmin G3X and G5 along with the auto pilot. Got the auto pilot arm limiter installed on the roll servo but still need to do the pitch. Built backing plates for the hold down attachments for the baggage area, installed carpet on the floors and installed the floors back into the fuselage. Fabricated and fit the left wing closeout cuff, installed the attaching nut plates and got it ready for paint. Not as cool as the ones people are making with the carbon fiber but they will do the job. Installed heat reflective material on the base of the lower cowling that is just below the muffler/exhaust of the engine. Hoping to keep the cowling itself a bit protected from the heat.
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P Johnson
08-25-2023, 01:25 AM
Have wrestled with how to mount the sensors for the DynaVibe. Thinking thru things like the effects that the alternator pulley and alternator might have on balancing or taking the alternator off and doing the balance. Got to say I got some good input from Delta Whiskey that helped me make sense of stuff. So armed with that, I came up with this solution. The instructions say to mount the transducer as far forward and center as possible on the engine and this fits the bill. Built the side brackets out of doubled .06 aluminum and then riveted them together so they hold the quarter inch plate on the top nice and sturdy. This should work out I think. Appreciate all the help I got with this so I can move ahead now that I've started the engine and all.
Gary
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Gary,
I have balanced many Lycomings but only two Rotax 912 engines, last weekend I balanced the second 912uls, for some reason I placed the reflective tape on the spinner backplate instead of one of the propellor blades and I could not balance the propellor, the DynoVibe readings were consistent when repeated but adding weight just changed the angle but not the IPS which made no sense, I removed the reflective tape from the spinner backplate and placed it on one of the prop blades, repositioned the optical sensor and had the prop balanced to 0.06 IPS in two runs. It may be of interest but the unbalance prop reading was 0.72 IPS, after placing 20g of weight the reading was 0.12 IPS it took another 5g to read 0.06 IPS.
Gary,
I have balanced many Lycomings but only two Rotax 912 engines, last weekend I balanced the second 912uls, for some reason I placed the reflective tape on the spinner backplate instead of one of the propellor blades and I could not balance the propellor, the DynoVibe readings were consistent when repeated but adding weight just changed the angle but not the IPS which made no sense, I removed the reflective tape from the spinner backplate and placed it on one of the prop blades, repositioned the optical sensor and had the prop balanced to 0.06 IPS in two runs. It may be of interest but the unbalance prop reading was 0.72 IPS, after placing 20g of weight the reading was 0.12 IPS it took another 5g to read 0.06 IPS.
Paul - Thanks for bringing this back up and reminding me I should provide the rest of my story so to speak. Hopefully your experience and mine will help others. I didn't have your experience of doing the balance before mine and I struggled for literally a day (16 runs - I'm a slow learner) of getting readings that moved around and not getting the job done. I was thinking that maybe my DynaVibe was wonky but I knew it had been successfully used previously. Stepping back with my elixir of improved thought (bourbon) in hand, I knew there was something I wasn't seeing and tomorrow was another day. My hint that the backing plate was the wrong place for the tape was taking the spinner off. Things settled down a lot then and the clue light came on that maybe there was a reason the instructions say to put the tape on the blade. Put my tape on the blade as well and all was right with the world. Thanks again.
Cheers
Gary
I am in the midst of doing little things that need to get done which seem like I am not doing much at all. But rather than program the Garmin, I got to work on hardware a bit today. One of the things on my list was coming up with a way to retain the hinge pins on the door hinges so they don't just slide out. Have read on the forum of many different ways to do this but thought that the set screw method seemed the way I liked most. Drilled and tapped the hinges to accept a 6-32 set screw, filed a very slight flat spot on the hinge pin itself where the set screw hit it and locked all the hinges in. Needed a bottoming tap to make this work and your basic tap and die set or local hardware had none. Hardware store didn't even know what it was; "They all come with that tapered end so you can get the threads started". I went to an old set that was passed down to me from my Dad and there it was - the 6-32 bottoming tap. I just smiled and thought that here I was, a 70 year old man, still being helped out by his Pop. A good thing. Also primed the wing close out cuffs and VGs so they are ready for paint.
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bbs428
08-26-2023, 01:19 PM
Nice work Geek!
I also have some old tools from my "pop" that serve me well. Had a smile reading about your 6-32 bottom tap.
I replaced my door hinge pin with a cotter pin bent ever so slightly as to not come out at an inopportune moment.
Not sure if I'm going to do the "VG's". I know their good for a few mph off the stall speed. Where did you get yours from Geek?
alexM
08-26-2023, 01:51 PM
Too late for this occasion but there's a Tacoma Screw in Wenatchee.
They wouldn't blink if you asked for a bottoming tap, plug tap, etc.
Much cheaper (if you know ahead of time) would be to order from McMaster Carr
Too late for this occasion but there's a Tacoma Screw in Wenatchee.
They wouldn't blink if you asked for a bottoming tap, plug tap, etc.
Much cheaper (if you know ahead of time) would be to order from McMaster Carr
Thanks Alex. Good to know. There has been more than one occasion that I needed something other than a starting tap and been frustrated. Tried a couple places (like Fastenal) and they didn't have them there. Could get them but didn't have them. Appreciate the steer there.
Gary
Mounted my doors and did the final fitting for the latches. They work perfectly and while close, don't hit the wing. Mounted my nameplate below the horizontal stab access panel using a backing plate fixed to the backside of the Oratex with adhesive to sandwich the skin between the two plates. Since I have finished the prop balance, I removed the DynaVibe parts and did a final install (read safety wired the bolts) on my external alternator. Did an engine turn after the install and the alternator puts out a nice 14.1 VDC from around 3500 RPM to WOT.
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jiott
09-12-2023, 11:38 AM
Worries me a little that you said your doors are "close" to the wing. I did that too, and when I have the door open and engine running, the vibration causes the door to slightly contact the wing and now I have scratches in the door plexi. I should have left about 3/4-1" clearance when static.
jiott
09-12-2023, 11:40 AM
Its not really engine vibration that causes the problem, its the propwash.
Worries me a little that you said your doors are "close" to the wing. I did that too, and when I have the door open and engine running, the vibration causes the door to slightly contact the wing and now I have scratches in the door plexi. I should have left about 3/4-1" clearance when static.
Good point Jim. In my case it's the blind squirrel that got the nut. Mine has just over 3/4". Not by design by any means - just dumb luck.
G
jiott
09-13-2023, 09:54 AM
That's good Gary; you should be alright.
Between Fall seeming to come early here with rain and blustery days (20kts gusting to 50) it made it a bit hard to move the airplane out and spread the wings. So have been working on some small stuff. I had one day where it was perfect to paint so I got my VGs, hubcaps, and wing cuffs painted. Been on my list for awhile but just hadn't done it. Got the rubber attached to the cuffs so they are done. Got all my VGs moved to their adhesive pages so they are ready to install whenever I do that. (Probably after getting the first flights under my belt and look at stall speeds). One question I had for those who covered with Oratex and attached the VGs. Did you use the adhesive pages that came with the kit or use another adhesive? I've notices that the Oratex is a bit porous and sometimes things don't stick well to it. Got my cowlings on the plane but had to remove the prop to do it. It just wasn't going otherwise. The piece I put around the naca vent for the radiators and the tailpipe just would not let the lower cowl on with the prop installed. I may do a bit of modification to my piece and see if that won't let me attach the cowl with the prop on. But for right now, I am moving towards getting the plane weighed so that I can do my CG and maybe even have a chat with the DAR and get signed off. Would love to do that before the snow hits.
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VictorV
09-22-2023, 09:47 PM
How much space do you have between the back of the spinner and the cowl?
Victor
How much space do you have between the back of the spinner and the cowl?
Victor
About 3/8". Believe my 'issue' is the air bracket around my naca duct to my radiators. Think they might be a bit too long which is stopping me from getting the cowl up and over the radiators far enough to let the intake get around the engine. Will shorten them a bit after I do the weighing and see if that gives me some relief.
Gary
More getting ready to weigh the plane and doing small stuff. Installed the seat pan and seat belts as well as temporarily installing the interior parts of the kit. Riveted the turtle deck strakes on and checked the fit installing the turtle deck on the plane. Attached the landing light lenses on the wing tips so they are done and ready to be reinstalled on the wings.
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jiott
09-27-2023, 11:16 AM
Lookin good!
Lookin good!
Thanks Jim. Funny that I'm excited to be getting close to flying it but sad that this part of the adventure is almost over. Loved the building aspect.
Gary
jiott
09-27-2023, 08:05 PM
I loved the building too, but the flying is even more enjoyable. You still get to get your hands in it for maintenance and annuals, and a few mods you will decide you need after flying awhile.
Kitfox Pilot
09-30-2023, 07:35 PM
Looking good Gary.
You have a top notch plane and I have enjoyed watching your build.
I liked working with the family building mine, that was the best part for me, but I was glad when the building was over and the flying began.
I know several love to build and can't wait to start the next one.
Myself I don't think I would ever do it again. Glad I did it once but not any interest to do it again.
The flying part....265 hours in 17 months so far. I do enjoy flying the kitfox and look forward to flying it again every time I land. Haha
I look forward to you getting yours in the air!
Looking good Gary.
You have a top notch plane and I have enjoyed watching your build.
I liked working with the family building mine, that was the best part for me, but I was glad when the building was over and the flying began.
I know several love to build and can't wait to start the next one.
Myself I don't think I would ever do it again. Glad I did it once but not any interest to do it again.
The flying part....265 hours in 17 months so far. I do enjoy flying the kitfox and look forward to flying it again every time I land. Haha
I look forward to you getting yours in the air!
Thanks Harlan. My thoughts in watching your videos and posts during your build was "There's a man whose doing this right" in that you always seemed to have family helping out. Willingly helping out. And you got a sweet plane to boot!! I made an error in my thinking on how long it would take the FAA to give me a N number (given I am a retired simple servant you'd of thought I would have had a better grip on that) so am weighing the plane today and for the most part, am ready to submit my paperwork and get the DAR to inspect once I get my number. Then it's probably wait out Winter and fly in the Spring. The wife is taking flying lessons as we speak and is very excited to go!!
bbs428
10-01-2023, 02:09 PM
I'm really liking that color scheme and enjoying watching it all come together!
Looks super Gary.
You're going to love flying it!
I'm really liking that color scheme ..........
That was a color scheme? Watch out Brett - your 'haze gray and underway' is starting to show. Maybe I should find some green linoleum for my floorboards? Compared to yours - mine is the plain Jane of Kitfoxes.
Gary
Another of those small things off the list of things left to do. I had already done the fitting work on the quarter windows but hadn't actually done the final install. So now that's done. I used kind of a hybrid of the Kitfox instructions in that I used both the VHB tape to seal and rivets to provide that little extra holding force. I am literally ready for the DAR if I could only get my N Number. That's the one thing I wish I had done a lot earlier if I had known it was going to take this long. Passing through 4 months waiting.
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jiott
10-09-2023, 12:04 PM
I used just the tape to install my triangle quarter windows. After 10 years and 1300 hours still holding just fine. Its one of those things I figured I could install rivets later if needed.
Eric Page
10-09-2023, 12:55 PM
I read somewhere once that VHB tape is used to install windows in high-rise buildings. 3M markets the stuff with statements like, "Can replace mechanical fasteners (rivets, welds, screws)."
I strongly suspect that if you followed the guidance in 3M's technical bulletin for VHB tape (https://multimedia.3m.com/mws/media/66019O/vhbtm-tape-surface-preparation-technical-bulletin.pdf), including using the right adhesion promoters on the painted and plastic surfaces, it would hold the Kitfox windows to the door frames with no need for metal fasteners.
I read somewhere once that VHB tape is used to install windows in high-rise buildings. 3M markets the stuff with statements like, "Can replace mechanical fasteners (rivets, welds, screws)."
I strongly suspect that if you followed the guidance in 3M's technical bulletin for VHB tape (https://multimedia.3m.com/mws/media/66019O/vhbtm-tape-surface-preparation-technical-bulletin.pdf), including using the right adhesion promoters on the painted and plastic surfaces, it would hold the Kitfox windows to the door frames with no need for metal fasteners.
Looks like I am in the category of "Overkill" but I'm OK with that. It is a good thing I didn't see that technical bulletin before I bought the tape Eric. Any product that would use a good beer and then mixes it with water ist verboten in my family!!!! https://teamkitfox.com/Forums/images/icons/icon7.png
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Eric Page
10-09-2023, 04:57 PM
As if that's not bad enough, they seem to want you to drink it through a bendy-straw!
More little stuff. Installed my forward looking camera on my cowling. Hooked it up and it appears to be working as advertised. I didn't take a cool selfie like Harlan did with his camera cause I didn't want to break it before I got to use it for real. So I settled for the view out my shop. Have also run into a bit of an issue with the cowling fasteners. I have had four of them where the cross pin falls out (which means I lose my retaining washer as well). Gone through all the fasteners on the cowlings and found a couple more where the pin will slide back and forth but doesn't fall out. Yet. My fasteners are not hard to set when installing the cowling so I don't think I am putting them under any real stress. Anyone run into this? Am I doing something wrong? Bad fastener batch? Thoughts?
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Kitfox Pilot
10-17-2023, 04:35 PM
I really like your camera location and mounting job.
I have never seen a fastener pin loose like that so I'm not much help.
Thanks Harlan. Going to be interesting to hear what the company has to say.
Ive had that happen to one of my fasteners. I used a heavy safety wire replacement and made it work.
Thanks Eddie. I got hold of Skybolt to ask them what they thought. They sent me a label to ship them the ones that failed back to them and shipped me replacements along with the capture washers as well. Pretty easy company to work with. Will see if I have any more fasteners that give up.
jrevens
10-20-2023, 10:28 AM
… “Have also run into a bit of an issue with the cowling fasteners. I have had four of them where the cross pin falls out (which means I lose my retaining washer as well).“…
l haven’t ever seen this happen with genuine CAMLOC fasteners, & I’ve installed hundreds of them in 40+ years. That being said, I have a few of the Skybolt brand on my Kitfox and they have been fine, so far. Maybe they had a batch of defective ones? The little pins are staked on both sides of the hole for retention. In these pictures you can see that the “staking” is a little more prominent on the CAMLOC unit.
bbs428
10-26-2023, 09:37 AM
More little stuff. Installed my forward looking camera on my cowling. Hooked it up and it appears to be working as advertised. I didn't take a cool selfie like Harlan did with his camera cause I didn't want to break it before I got to use it for real. So I settled for the view out my shop. Have also run into a bit of an issue with the cowling fasteners. I have had four of them where the cross pin falls out (which means I lose my retaining washer as well). Gone through all the fasteners on the cowlings and found a couple more where the pin will slide back and forth but doesn't fall out. Yet. My fasteners are not hard to set when installing the cowling so I don't think I am putting them under any real stress. Anyone run into this? Am I doing something wrong? Bad fastener batch? Thoughts?
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Nice camera mount! My 2nd chi-com camera bricked, so I have no camera atm. Tbh - After spending some time taxing about the ramp, I find I really don't need it. Eyes outside the cockpit! - says my CFI. Lol.
I have a lot of the same fasteners and never had the issues you're having. Skybolt is a good Co. Maybe it was a bad lot. Hope they take care of you.
........I have a lot of the same fasteners and never had the issues you're having. Skybolt is a good Co. Maybe it was a bad lot. Hope they take care of you.
Skybolt was great Brett. They sent a return label immediately and send me the replacement fasteners 2nd day Air. You can't ask for more I don't think. Hope my camera lasts longer than yours did eh?
Gary
Started on my interior by doing the skin covering on the sides and center of the seat pan. If you are familiar with this step, you will notice that I did not install the skin covering along the front of the seat. With the seat pan installed, the floor carpeting extends up and over that overhanging lip on the seat. A length of the fastening strip for the carpet attaches to that lip and it will adhere to the fiberglass of the lip better than the skin material. Once the carpet and seats are fully installed, you never see that part. Installed the carpet on to the floorboards and and seat pan. As the instructions suggested, used zip ties to help hold the strips to the boards. Carpet and seats are now fully installed.
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bbs428
11-02-2023, 07:57 AM
Looks sweet Gary. It's really coming together nicely!
Looks sweet Gary. It's really coming together nicely!
Thanks Brett. Hopefully you're getting more flying with that beauty of yours.
Gary
AANNNDDD a Hurts Donut (Say it and listen to yourself if you don't get it.)
Worked on getting one of my door latches to fit/close a little better. It was pretty tight and harder to close than the other one. Was making progress on it and then this........
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Hello Heather? I need to place an order.......... Dang it!!
Eric Page
11-05-2023, 04:02 PM
Oh, NOOOO! At least you can stop-drill the end of the crack and still fly until the replacement shows up. What a bummer...
Kitfox Pilot
11-05-2023, 06:10 PM
AANNNDDD a Hurts Donut (Say it and listen to yourself if you don't get it.)
Worked on getting one of my door latches to fit/close a little better. It was pretty tight and harder to close than the other one. Was making progress on it and then this........
Hello Heather? I need to place an order.......... Dang it!!
Oh that hurt me to look at because I know how much work went into that! If there is a good side it's that it will probably be better the second time around. I know my screw ups were. Haha
rv9ralph
11-05-2023, 08:47 PM
Oh man does that hurt!! Like Harlan said... it is easier the second time. But who want's to do that work more than necessary.
Thanks all. Misery loves company and this just hurts to look at it. Will stop drill it today but trying to think of how to do it with my eyes closed so I don't have to look. The funny part is that when I budgeted for the build, I actually had a "Screw Up Fund". Ah well. As we used to say on the boat, "Everyone gets their day in the barrel". My turn.
Gary
Redline
11-06-2023, 08:17 AM
Gary, I feel your pain! I cracked one door on Saturday, but it's really small (about an inch long) and I'm hoping it stays that way after drilling it. The sound of that crack made me sick to my stomach!
Spornrad
11-06-2023, 11:32 AM
Hi Geek,
where can I get that tool to set these AL-Rivets? How is it called?
Thank you , Werner
Hi Geek,
where can I get that tool to set these AL-Rivets? How is it called?
Thank you , Werner
They are called a "Rivet Squeezer". Catchy name eh? You can find them at Aircraft Spruce. Here's a link to them in Europe
https://www.aircraftspruce.eu/tools/rivet-tools/rivet-squeezers/stainless-steel-hand-squeezer.html
(https://www.aircraftspruce.eu/tools/rivet-tools/rivet-squeezers/stainless-steel-hand-squeezer.html)A 'buy the way' is that I know many on this forum use these in place of the squeezer. Another Europe link; https://www.weidinger.eu/en/tools/v-knipex-86-01-series
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Even though I have the squeezers, I have these as well and have successfully done solid rivets with them. Much cheaper.
Gary
So to add insult to injury.......... Went down in the shop to stop drill my door glass and take another look at why my latches were so tight. When I did the original fitting, I thought they were just perfect and that when I installed the doors and the rubber gasket, they would be a bit tight but functional. In the manual, Kitfox clearly says that you 'might' have to install a shim between the latch rods and the door frame. Should have taken that note a bit more to heart. My tight spot was where the rear rod pushed over the fuselage frame. Drilled out the rivets holding the bracket. Made a shim out of some .063 aluminum and cleco'd them in. The door latches both close smooth as silk. Not loose at all. Slightly compresses the rubber gasket. If you are putting in the optional latches, learn from my mistake. If I had just taken a bit more time in looking at this I would not be ordering a new door glass. Took me two hours to do the fix.
Gary
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bbs428
11-08-2023, 03:49 PM
Welcome to the KCAC - "Kitfox Cracked Acrylic Club". I felt your pain halfway across the country.
At least you have a contingency fund!
I have one small crack on a door that ends at a screw hole. It saved me from scrapping the door and buying a new one. I have learned to live with it by not looking at it! Lol.
Spornrad
11-09-2023, 02:25 AM
They are called a "Rivet Squeezer". Catchy name eh? You can find them at Aircraft Spruce. Here's a link to them in Europe
https://www.aircraftspruce.eu/tools/rivet-tools/rivet-squeezers/stainless-steel-hand-squeezer.html
(https://www.aircraftspruce.eu/tools/rivet-tools/rivet-squeezers/stainless-steel-hand-squeezer.html)A 'buy the way' is that I know many on this forum use these in place of the squeezer. Another Europe link; https://www.weidinger.eu/en/tools/v-knipex-86-01-series
Even though I have the squeezers, I have these as well and have successfully done solid rivets with them. Much cheaper.
Gary
Thank you Gary, this helped me a lot for my projekt! Was searching for this quite some time.
Werner
Got my glass ordered from Kitfox and expected it to take a bit before I received it. Only took a week and a half from when I ordered it to when I got it. So it was time to take the cracked glass off the door frame and that turned out to have a low fun quotient. That VHB tape really sticks. Used .030 safety wire to cut through the tape between the frame and the glass. That part was pretty easy. Removing the remaining tape from the frame was the hard part. Rubbed the old mastic really hard with my thumbs and for the most part, it peeled off the frame. Where it didn't, I used acetone but still not a walk in the park. So now I am ready to fit the new glass to the door frame and the fuselage opening. Think it will be easier to do for the third time?
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Glass arrived really quick which I guess kinda surprised me. So I started in on it. Fitting this was a bit different than doing it from scratch in that a lot of the holes in the frame were already drilled so I had to get those set and then fit the window onto the door frame. But following the "measure three times, cut once" rule I was able to get the glass attached to the frame and then get it fit into the door jamb. It's hung so when I get back from our Thanksgiving trip to the kid's house, I can start on the edge finishing and installing the door latch system.
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Door repair is complete. Got the latch assembly installed along with the edge P gasket. The latch locks and opens smoothly so I won't be trying to beat on it like I did when I got into this position. Latch handle cutout has nice rounded internal corners and is sanded smooth like the outer edge of the door. And the good news is that I got my N Number in the mail and was able to send in the registration. Once that gets dialed in, I can actually tell the DAR that I am good to inspect. Yahoo!!!
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jrevens
11-29-2023, 12:14 AM
Oh happy day! You’re gettin’ close now Gary… so good to see!
Thanks John. Been a great experience but made that way by guys like you who were willing to share your knowledge.
Gary
Dave S
11-29-2023, 09:54 AM
Gary,
Progress being made! Good to hear.
I think that you will appreciate the double latch pin lock on your doors. I have that on our early S7. I find it keeps the vibration/flexing to a minimum.
A number of aircraft were supplied with the single latch on the bottom but the double is far more secure (and keeps the pneumonia holes to a minimum.) I had some friends with IVs and a single bottom latch - the door frame was a bit different too. First flight routine was close the doors, take off, see how your startle response is when the doors fly open, go back, close doors, repeat a couple times till you get the startle thing under control.Then some modifications proceeded.
Fly well
I agree Dave. When I ordered my kit, the dual pin just appealed to my sense of solid operation. Once I got them installed, I thought they had a bit of 'cool' to them. I do think that the newer latches and mods to crack the door open in the summer months has greatly improved over the last few years. A door popping open would certainly get your attention if you weren't ready for it.
Gary
alexM
11-29-2023, 08:18 PM
A door popping open would certainly get your attention if you weren't ready for it.
Gary
Eh, what's the worst that could happen?
Eh, what's the worst that could happen?
Yeah. We asked this guy the same question. Can't print the answer he gave when he found himself in the Convertible Turkey.
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bbs428
11-30-2023, 11:08 AM
I have the aftermarket aluminum combo single door latch that allows you to vent the cabin a bit in the summer heat. It does a nice job of that, and so far, they secure the bubble doors just fine.
Didn't know the Tomcat came in a convertible model! A bit drafty at speed no doubt!
Hard to explain to the MO where the windscreen went but hey, makes for a good "there I was" tale at the watering hole!
Good to hear the door is completed and you have your N number as well. That's great news!
jiott
11-30-2023, 11:52 AM
Worst thing I have heard of is one guy had his cell phone sucked out when a door flew open, not to mention any loose papers, charts, checklists, etc.
VictorV
12-01-2023, 11:41 PM
… “Have also run into a bit of an issue with the cowling fasteners. I have had four of them where the cross pin falls out (which means I lose my retaining washer as well).“…
l haven’t ever seen this happen with genuine CAMLOC fasteners, & I’ve installed hundreds of them in 40+ years. That being said, I have a few of the Skybolt brand on my Kitfox and they have been fine, so far. Maybe they had a batch of defective ones? The little pins are staked on both sides of the hole for retention. In these pictures you can see that the “staking” is a little more prominent on the CAMLOC unit.
John, Do you have any pics of Skybolt camlocs installed? I was thinking about using them for my oil door but they just stick out too much....
jrevens
12-02-2023, 04:26 PM
John, Do you have any pics of Skybolt camlocs installed? I was thinking about using them for my oil door but they just stick out too much....
Victor,
Here are a couple of pictures of the Skybolt fasteners I used on the trailing edge of my turtledeck. I used the standard 4000 series winged Camlocs on the sides of the folding section of the turtledeck.
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Sorry for sticking this in your build thread, Gary.
Sorry for sticking this in your build thread, Gary.
Yeah I was pretty upset John. Stayed awake all night grousing about it. Don't think I'll ever get over it. Oh.......wait......dang. Over it.
No worries. It was to help a builder so worth it.
Gary
Dave S
12-04-2023, 07:54 AM
While we are on the subject of camlocks.
My kit came with winged camlocks for all the positions on the turtledeck.
I realized that when I got my official Kitfox cabin cover (a really nice item for underwing camping out in the boondocks) that the winged camlocks are not compatible with the cabin cover so switched all over to phillips head camlocks which create no problems with the cabin cover.
Happy New Year all! The EAA Builder's Log notified me that it has been 30 days since I have posted on progress. The reason is simple - still waiting on the FAA registration so that I can apply for the airworthiness certificate. (Learn from my mistake of waiting too long. Once you have a N Number picked out (and possibly reserved), submit your registration. It'll come about the time you're ready and you won't have to wait for it before you can request your air worthiness inspection) I am playing with possible color schemes that I could use on the fuselage as well as thinking I might add the yaw dampener to my autopilot (three axis). But the bottom line is that the plane is ready - just sitting in Winter storage in the shop.
Gary
Happy New Year everyone, and fly safe x
bbs428
01-03-2024, 01:05 PM
Happy New Year Geek! All the best!
Glad you're almost to the finish line! Looks like were both going to wait for a while to get squared away!
I'm in a holding pattern as well. The CFIs never materialized at my bud Chase's place, so I had to hunt down another willing to give instruction in my plane. Funny how many cfi's will not go near an experimental aircraft. My new CFI is chomping at the bit to get qualified in the Kitfox, I just have to wait another 1-2 months for the stars to align and his schedule to clear. Sigh...
I'm thinking about that yaw dampener as well after reading Dustin's feedback on his experience with it. The Kitfox retro kit seems reasonable enough though I see that the Garmin servos have increased in price since my build, as well as everything else on the planet! I have to remove my old servos as well and send them in for the upgrade but have another 4 + years to do it so that's not too big of a deal. It will be a PITA to get them out and retro fit a new yaw servo.
Contorting in and around the inside of the kitfox is not my idea of fun!
Happy New Year Geek! All the best!
Glad you're almost to the finish line! Looks like were both going to wait for a while to get squared away!
Thanks Brett!! Best of the new year to you and the wife for sure. I feel like I have built this plane using the best of Naval traditions - hurry up and wait. Ah well. After this long of dealing with the Canoe Club we should be pretty good it this by now.
I did the swap on my servos back when the notice came out. Probably a mistake but wanted it done but you are correct sir; it was a PITA to go in and pull them. I ordered the YD kit from Kitfox without the servo so i can get it installed and ready to go but can wait till inspections and stuff are done before I actually do the deed.
Sorry to hear about your CFI issues. I think when it comes to us having to wait that you have the harder job of it. You've gotten to fly yours so you know exactly what you're missing. I found a local guy who comes very highly recommended to give me my tailwheel in a Luscombe. But until about 30 minutes ago, we have been pretty much less than 100 and 1/8. He is trying to get a couple BFRs and another tailwheel done before he takes me on and WX has been his hold up. He is eyeballing my Kitfox for sure and has offered to "help shake her out". We'll see.
Cheers,
Geek
So while I am waiting on the FAA, I decided to add in the yaw dampener to my autopilot. Talked to Brandon about this and he compares having it in the plane to having heated seats in your car; once you have them, you don't not want to have them. I bought the kit sans servo to get things set up and tied into my aircraft wiring. Built up the mounting plate by installing the plate nuts and built up the cable that will run from my pitch servo to the yaw servo. Will actually do the wiring install after my inspection and buy the servo then.
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wait wait. Are you saying, the only wiring is from the pitch servo to the yaw damper? Nothing to the panel?! Oh Lord, Do I Want to Know the answer?$
wait wait. Are you saying, the only wiring is from the pitch servo to the yaw damper? Nothing to the panel?! Oh Lord, Do I Want to Know the answer?$
Yup. Nothing to the panel. All the wiring I need to tie into in order to add the yaw servo is at the pitch servo. CANBUS, 12V, Ground, Autopilot disconnect is all there. Right now my pitch servo is at the end of my CANBUS run so I need to clip the jumper that I have on that connector that sets the BUS termination. The CANBUS gets extended to the yaw dampener
(just like you hooked all your components together on the system as a whole) and the termination jumper gets put on the yaw connector. No runs required to the panel - the beauty of the BUS.
G
Nice, something to consider thanks.
MFleming
01-19-2024, 10:14 AM
So while I am waiting on the FAA, I decided to add in the yaw dampener to my autopilot. Talked to Brandon about this and he compares having it in the plane to having heated seats in your car; once you have them, you don't not want to have them. I bought the kit sans servo to get things set up and tied into my aircraft wiring. Built up the mounting plate by installing the plate nuts and built up the cable that will run from my pitch servo to the yaw servo. Will actually do the wiring install after my inspection and buy the servo then.
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Very interesting. Looks like the wiring is straight forward. What about how the servo operates the rudder? Is that included in the install kit?
Very interesting. Looks like the wiring is straight forward. What about how the servo operates the rudder? Is that included in the install kit?
I think Brandon did a great job on building up this kit and the design. I snaked a pic from Dustin (Dual STi Build Log) on the parts that connect to the rudder (since I don't have the servo yet.) Take a look at his build log (last few posts - easy to find). He did a great job of writing up his experience in doing the install
G
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rv9ralph
01-20-2024, 09:36 PM
Ok, Geek (Gary). Quick question. The buss takes care of the signal, so you don't have to wire that to the panel. What about power? Will you make a run back to your power buss? Or, tap into something else towards the back?
Your build is looking good. Hope to see you in June.
Ok, Geek (Gary). Quick question. The buss takes care of the signal, so you don't have to wire that to the panel. What about power? Will you make a run back to your power buss? Or, tap into something else towards the back?
Your build is looking good. Hope to see you in June.
Thanks Ralph. Good to hear from you and look forward to seeing you in June. Same power run from the VPX that currently runs/goes to the pitch and roll servos. With the VPX controlling the current, I set the autopilot circuit at 6A which should be fine if I read the current requirements in the manual correctly AND I could never think of anytime that all three servos would pull max current at the same time. (Spec for the servos is 0.36A typical and 1.8A Maximum so all three at max would be 5.4A). If it does, I think I probably should not be flying with the autopilot on anyway.
Geek
rv9ralph
01-21-2024, 09:39 PM
Thanks, on review of our wiring, we have 20 ga wire to each servo from the VPX on their own dedicated circuit. If we decide on installing a yaw damper, we will have to either increase the size of one power or run a dedicated circuit. You made it sound so easy. We knew it was too good to be true.
Shadowrider
01-22-2024, 09:05 AM
Ralph I had a dedicated circuit with 20 gauge to each servo. (Roll and pitch) Mil spec 20 Gauge is good to about 8-9 amps. I just pulled power from the roll servo at the roll servo. Also tied into the canbus there. Solider sleeved it and ran wire back to the pitch servo. I went back an changed the VPX labeling so Roll is now Roll/Yaw Servos. With the autopilot on and trying to overpower the servos I saw just over 1 amp. Its less than that during flight. Doing it again I would of put all 3 servos on one circuit. GSa-28 has an average .4 amp draw. If you have your servos wired to the 5amp circuit that is plenty. I have quite a few hours on the yaw dam setup now and it working great with absolutely no regrets of doing. I agree with Brandon, don't think I could fly without it now!
What Dustin said. Even at the specified max current draw of 1.8A, two servos trying to draw the max at the same time would only be 3.6A. The 20 gauge would be more than enough for that and I like I said, if two or three of those servos are trying to pull max current for a longer period of time (greater than something in the millisecond range) then I should be flying the plane and not the autopilot. I think with two servos on one circuit you are MORE than covered. I've got three servos on one circuit and think that's good to go. I'll hawk the current draw once I start flying but taking Dustin's observations, where he pushed the servos into trying to overcome his control inputs, you should be golden with splicing into one of your existing servos.
G
rv9ralph
01-22-2024, 09:51 PM
Shadowrider: I had a dedicated circuit with 20 gauge to each servo. (Roll and pitch) Mil spec 20 Gauge is good to about 8-9 amps. I just pulled power from the roll servo at the roll servo. Also tied into the canbus there. Solider sleeved it and ran wire back to the pitch servo. I went back a changed the VPX labeling so Roll is now Roll/Yaw Servos.
Thanks Dustin. I will discuss with my build partner, Victor V. He is the electrical guy on our build. I works for me.
Had some masking tape that had gotten caught between the windshield and the rib so decided today was the day to loosen all the screws holding the windshield and get that tape out of there. In doing that, I saw what appears to be the start of some cracks in the windshield. They don't appear to be all the way through the windshield but they are enough to make me stop and take a really good look at them. They are right at the worst place I can think of to appear - top side where the windshield has been formed seven different ways in the same place. First pic is just to give you an idea where that is. Apologize for the second pic but it's as close as I could get and keep the camera sort of focused on them. My question is do I drill a stop hole now so that if they are really cracks and not just reflected scratches I can save the windshield or do I sit in the hold short and see what happens.
Gary
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SNOW JW
01-24-2024, 01:19 PM
I had those cracks in mine but not as deep. I took a sanding drum on a dremmel and sanded them out. Luckily it was in a spot where I could notch it out and not be visible.
Sent from my SM-G988U1 using Tapatalk
jiott
01-24-2024, 01:46 PM
Gary, it may just be the angle of the photo, but it appears that the micro-cracked area is contacting the steel carry-through tube. If this is true, I would strongly suggest you cut the edge back until there is plenty of clearance. During hot and cold cycles that windshield will move around a lot, possibly applying stress to the acrylic if it is restrained by the tube. That of course is why all bolt holes are oversized and plastic washers used.
Gary, it may just be the angle of the photo, but it appears that the micro-cracked area is contacting the steel carry-through tube. If this is true, I would strongly suggest you cut the edge back until there is plenty of clearance. During hot and cold cycles that windshield will move around a lot, possibly applying stress to the acrylic if it is restrained by the tube. That of course is why all bolt holes are oversized and plastic washers used.
It's the angle of the pic Jim. There's actually about 5/8" between the carry through and the windshield. As an oh by the way - I am in the middle of copying your gust lock/turnbuckle design. Liked it a lot more than clamping wood around the vertical/rudder and the very popular Trent Palmer version that he printed out (which I think is trick as heck but won't work with the bottom pieces I put on my rudder peddles to keep my feet off the brakes) I can't justify the cost of the printer. Or having it printed commercially. Your's met the KISS principle and elegant to boot. Thanks for posting that.
Gary
jiott
01-27-2024, 01:06 PM
Thanks for the comment on my rudder gust lock. I can't take all the credit for it since I saw one very similar years ago on this forum, but can't remember by whom. I simplified it somewhat with all readily available hardware store components. once you have it adjusted for your airplane, it goes on and off in less than a minute.
Well I guess the planets partially aligned for me. The FAA is still MIA but I got into a hangar at the local airport in Cashmere, WA!! So it was moving day for the plane where it now shares an abode with a Sonex. Nice small, low wing airplane that the Kitfox can fit over. Now I'll be able to do some of the fine tuning that I wanted to do with the wings spread that I couldn't do in the shop without moving outside.
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alexM
02-21-2024, 06:11 PM
Nice! What do you think of your hangar mate's Sonex?
bbs428
02-21-2024, 09:53 PM
Glad you made it to your new "home away from home" Geek! Enjoy!!
Hope you weren't too nervous negotiating your way there!
Nice! What do you think of your hangar mate's Sonex?
It's pretty well built, nice paint and documented. Sonex uses large prints rather than the instructions manual like Kitfox and those were definitely old school that brought back a lot of memories of when I first started out as an enginerd. Panel is old school as well but nicely laid out. Has a VW engine that has been worked a bit for more power. It's apparently pretty quick.
Glad you made it to your new "home away from home" Geek! Enjoy
Hope you weren't too nervous negotiating your way there!
Nope I was good. Mostly cause I had gotten good gouge ahead of time from you and a couple other guys who all said pretty much the same thing about supporting the empennage and getting it up a bit to move the CG forward and some weight off. Ran about 45mph on the way down with the wife in trail to tell me if there was something going wonky on the trailer. Had it tied down well and used the Kitfox transportation kit along with Jim Ott's gust lock on the rudder.
cavelamb
02-29-2024, 10:41 AM
Re: cracking / crazing of windows.
Treatment depends on material.
And what's causing the cracking.
Lexan? Acrylic, Plexiglass?
If it's lexan it's a stress crack. No stopping those, but I'd be tempted to try a flame to seal the edge.
Re: cracking / crazing of windows.
Treatment depends on material.
And what's causing the cracking.
Lexan? Acrylic, Plexiglass?
If it's lexan it's a stress crack. No stopping those, but I'd be tempted to try a flame to seal the edge.
Pretty sure it's acrylic. I took a Dremmel drum sander to it and sanded them out (read cut them out) and then smoothed out the edge finish down to 1000 grit. Run the engine a couple times and it was on the trailer moving to the hangar and they didn't show back up. Guess I'll see when we fly it. Thanks for the comment.
Gary
FINALLY got my registration and was able to submit my air worthiness request. Been talking to the DAR and working to get the plane ready for inspection.
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bbs428
03-23-2024, 11:28 AM
Congratz!
Looks mighty nice Geek! Hope the rest of the process is smooth sailing!
alexM
03-24-2024, 10:17 AM
Awesome! Are you going to share the significance of the tail number?
Awesome! Are you going to share the significance of the tail number?
No significance to the numbers but the SG is Sandra and Gary. The wife was big in support during the build, is getting her PCL so she can fly it too, and didn't maim me when I put dents in the checkbook. She deserved some billing
G
Kitfox Pilot
03-24-2024, 03:37 PM
[QUOTE=Geek;111042]FINALLY got my registration and was able to submit my air worthiness request. Been talking to the DAR and working to get the plane ready for inspection.
Very happy to see SG getting close to the finish line.
Today I got to change my signature from building to done. Had the DAR stop by and got my airworthiness inspection all signed off. Now all I got to do is learn how to fly a taildragger!!!
Still stuff to do but she's legal!!
Gary
bumsteer
04-06-2024, 03:15 PM
Great to hear Gary!!
Rick
Shadowrider
04-06-2024, 05:42 PM
Nice! Great job! Now to get some hours! Do you need a tail-wheel endorsement?
Eric Page
04-06-2024, 06:17 PM
Woo hoo! Well done, Gary. Your building pace has put the rest of the Washington contingent to shame. I can't wait to hear how it flies.
Let me know if you head to Toledo; I'll take you down the hill to Betty's Place for a celebratory burger.
Woo hoo! Well done, Gary. Your building pace has put the rest of the Washington contingent to shame. I can't wait to hear how it flies.
Let me know if you head to Toledo; I'll take you down the hill to Betty's Place for a celebratory burger.
Thanks Eric. LOTS of credit goes to those on this forum who shared their insight. Never could have done this without it. Gonna hold you to the burger. I'll buy the beer.
Gary
Nice! Great job! Now to get some hours! Do you need a tail-wheel endorsement?
Sure do. Guess that's the next adventure. Zero tail wheel time. Have a local option in a Luscombe and another offer from one who has Kitfox hours to help me with the transition.
Gary
bbs428
04-07-2024, 02:51 PM
Nicely done Gary. Great build thread. You deserve an "atta boy"!!
Now go bore some holes in the sky! :D
P Johnson
04-07-2024, 03:53 PM
Well done Gary, just finished the flaperon enigma, hopefully should be done in a month.
Delta Whisky
04-07-2024, 06:19 PM
Now that is a milestone. Congrats on a plane well done.
DesertFox4
04-07-2024, 11:54 PM
Big congrats Gary!👍
Thanks all!! It's nice to know it's good to go but in the same breath - I kind of miss building. Guess I"ll have to do some 'updates' or something. Do want to install the yaw damper still and do an alignment check - just to be sure.
Gary
Kitfox Pilot
04-10-2024, 03:03 PM
Today I got to change my signature from building to done. Had the DAR stop by and got my airworthiness inspection all signed off. Now all I got to do is learn how to fly a taildragger!!!
Still stuff to do but she's legal!!
Gary
Great news Gary! Look forward to the first flight!
LetMeFly
04-10-2024, 06:29 PM
Great going Gary! Let me know if you're gonna be in Richland, and I'll buy you a burger, if I get a ride! ;)
rv9ralph
04-10-2024, 06:32 PM
Congrats Gary. I look forward to seeing you and the Fox at the Flying in June.
Finally!!! The weather gods and schedules aligned. AlexM (of Project 5 Build) came over to Cashmere to give my plane its first flight. (Me with zero tailwheel didn't think it prudent to try it on my own) and it actually flew. Appears I need to do some work with the pitot system as it only registered 45 KIAS when he was up cruising at altitude. But the rest seemed to be all there.
https://youtu.be/SLLjZGkVzCc
Geek
bumsteer
04-28-2024, 03:12 PM
Great to see it Gary. Now go get some tail wheel time.
Rick
Delta Whisky
04-28-2024, 03:53 PM
Congrats again Gary! Looking forward to hearing and seeing you at the controls. And I'd guess you'll be finding a leak in the pitot line.
Eric Page
04-28-2024, 05:48 PM
Yay! You really tore through that build; well done, Gary.
alexM
04-28-2024, 06:05 PM
Yay! You really tore through that build; well done, Gary.
Yes, he kicked our butts and did a beautiful job on the build! Hopefully he'll let me fly it again.
bbs428
04-28-2024, 07:31 PM
Your plane looks and sounds terrific! A fantastic accomplishment for you and kudos to your intrepid test pilot!
Minor thing airspeed, lol - you'll have it squared away in no time.
Well done team Geek! :D
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