Recent Kitfox Purchase, Looking for guidance on getting it ready and legal to fly

[TravisGillin]

Last week I purchased a Kitfox. I believe it's a Model 2 and it has a Silver head 532CL 2 stroke Rotax engine which is oil injected. I'm currently in the process of getting my PPL. I own and operate a small machine and fabrication business in Southeastern MI and I think this was a great purchase because I don't mind putting in the time and effort into getting it air worthy. I also have a background as a power sports and automotive mechanic, that along with my little machine shop, there's not a whole lot I can't build from scratch or repair... I have a buddy who is an A&P and is willing to help me get the safety inspections all squared away. The aircraft is all together and aside from some questionable wiring issues, looks like it would fly. My A&P friend took a close look and didn't see anything overly concerning...

As far as I know, the biggest issues are the following
- Allegedly the maintenance logbooks where burnt up in a fire (All I really know is they are not in my possession)
- There is no data plate in the aircraft anywhere. As far as I know it has to have a serial number in order to have an air worthiness cert.
- The aircraft has a tail number (which was canceled/un-registered in 2015, but was registered to an individual who has since passed away)

I'm hoping some of you here would be willing to help and point me in the right direction to getting the paperwork side of this aircraft all sorted out. I'm relatively new to aviation and any pointers would be much appreciated

Thanks!

[Maverick]

Your situation is not ideal. If you are member of the EAA, you should contact the EAA and see if it has any advice on how to proceed. If you are not a member, you should join.

If you go to this website, https://registry.faa.gov/aircraftinquiry/Search/NNumberInquiry , you should be able to look up the N number. The results from this inquiry will have a field labeled "Reason for cancelation" in the Aircraft Description section if it has been decertified. If that field is missing, it is likely still certified even though the registration has lapsed. There is a lot of information there.

[TravisGillin]

Hello Maverick,

Okay. I'll be joining the EAA. The "Reason for Cancellation" field just says "Canceled". I also checked the tail number against accident reports returns on https://aviation-safety.net/ and there wasn't anything reported with this tail number.

Thanks!

[taff]

I am trying to think where Skystar stamped the serial number on my Classic IV

Was it on that triangle plate welded to the fuselage, where the 2 seat belts are bolted to. The one in the middle, behind your shoulder.
I may me totally incorrect of where, but almost positive they placed a serial number somewhere.
Sorry if I am wrong.

After I posted this I had another thought. It could be on this triangle.

[TravisGillin]

I didn't think to check on that triangle tab that the seat belts bolt to but I just close at it and I don't see any numbers. Tomorrow I'll look close at the frame for any stamped number. I didn't realize it could be stamped, I had been looking for a data plate of some sort...

Thanks!

[TravisGillin]

If you look up the expired N-Number in the FAA database doesn't it show the serial number?


It does, can I use this serial number to get a copy of the air worthiness certificate from the FAA?

[taff]

I edited my post.

[desertdave]

It does, can I use this serial number to get a copy of the air worthiness certificate from the FAA?
Call and ask but why would you need it?

[TravisGillin]

Call and ask but why would you need it?

I don’t know. I’m new to this but I guess I had assumed it would be needed to register the aircraft. Maybe all I need to do is register the tail number into my name and have an A&P do a full blown safety inspection and start maintenance log books from scratch?

[avidflyer]

FAA requires an unbroken chain of ownership. In other words, the person who's name is on the registration would have to sign an FAA bill of sale to the new owner. If you bought it from the widow if there was one, she can fill out an Heir at law form, get it notorized and use that form to claim ownership that would give her the right to sell it to you. I went through this a few years ago. Not that hard in my case, once I understood what the FAA wanted. If I had the N # I would do some looking at websites that may shed some light on this plane. JImChuk

[TravisGillin]

The tail number is 322EE. Then my biggest problem is I don’t have chain of ownership. Looks like the registration was canceled in 2015 and I found the gentleman’s, who’s name was on the registration, obituary with some googling. I was unable to find any information on a widow. Are there any FAA contingency’s for this type of situation?

[avidflyer]

Can you track down the owners between the registered owner and the guy you bought it from? That's the first thing I would do now. Looks like the registration eventually expired when it was not renewed every three years. JImChuk

[TravisGillin]

So I did some digging and actually was able to get in contact with the individual who purchased the airplane from an estate sale of the individual who purchased the airplane from the original owner/builder (In wrecked form). I'm glad I was able to get hold of him because the history here is strange. It turns out that the airplane I actually own is 226WR (Serial number 226 Kitfox I). 322EE was a parts donor for 226WR which was in a wreck that ruined the air frame and some other stuff. 322EE was built but for some reason was never air worthy. It all makes more sense now because I had received a binder full of paperwork (Air worthiness cert, bill of sale with the purchaser blank, data plate, etc) for a 226WR Kitfox I which I had assumed was some type of mistake where things got switched up along the line. It looks like the project was bought and sold several times before it got to me. I guess most all of the hard work was done to make one good airplane between the too and possibly someone before me was flying it illegally because the repaired 226WR was never re-registered. It looks like everything I have here is original 226WR except for the air frame, a wing, and possibly some control surfaces and I think whoever did the work to make one good airplane from parts intended to use 322EE as the tail number, I'll probably want my own tail number... I think I now have everything I need to get this aircraft all squared away as far as paperwork goes. I was starting to think this thing was in FAA "Airplane Purgatory"

[Eric Page]

I'm no expert on aircraft certification and registration, but I see two potential problems with your narrative.

First, it sounds like the airplane you own has the airframe from 322EE and a mixture of parts from that airplane and from 226WR. If so, then I think you own the aircraft previously registered as 322EE, not 226WR. It's the airframe that carries the serial number; no other parts matter. Be sure that your bill of sale and registration documents jive with the actual serial number on the airframe (assuming that you can find it).

Second, while it's good that you found a previous owner who knows the plane's story, you must be able to show, on paper, an unbroken chain of ownership from the factory to you, for the aircraft bearing the serial number that you want to register. This means signed and notarized documents.

Do yourself a favor and contact the FAA Aircraft Registration Branch (https://www.faa.gov/licenses_certificates/aircraft_certification/aircraft_registry/contact_aircraft_certification/), explain the situation and ask them what paperwork you'll need to provide in order to re-register the aircraft. They're the people you have to satisfy, and no amount of advice from jailhouse lawyers on an internet forum will change that!

[avidflyer]

I don't think you will find a serial # on the fuselage of a Kitfox 2. I think that started with the Kitfox 4s. JImChuk

[TravisGillin]

I don't think you will find a serial # on the fuselage of a Kitfox 2. I think that started with the Kitfox 4s. JImChuk

This would make since because I've looked everywhere (aside from tearing fabric off) and can't find a serial number. I appreciate Eric Page's input but I have talked to a couple A&P's who have seen instances where PA 18 air frames have been swapped out and the "airplane" was still considered the same "airplane" after the air frame swap to fix air frame damage, they said the swap was noted in the air frame logbook. The FAA would never actually be informed of the swap, it would just be an entry in the air frame logbook. Unfortunately it's the only path I have to registering this airplane. 322EE was never actually an airplane (In the Eyes of the FAA) and there is zero paperwork to prove chain of ownership. As far as I know, air frame 322 was purchased second hand from an abandoned kit project and installed to replace 226's damaged air frame. I have every document to prove chain of ownership of 226WR from the receipt from Denny Kitfox to present including pictures of the damaged air frame (from the very helpful individual who I was able to track down who owned the project briefly before the work was completed). I'm at a crossroads where i'm hesitant to inquire with the FAA about this because there's a real possibility where they give the simple answer and say "No" because my faith in government organizations/workers going above and beyond to help get an individual new to aviation is pretty low. It should be a very straight forward process to register 226WR into my name and indicate in logbooks about an air frame swap and what exactly happened now that I have the whole story.

[avidflyer]

If you can get 226RW registration into your name, that is probably the best and simplest route. Bear in mind, that a hand written bill of sale is not automaticly accepted by the FAA. Another option if a guy was looking for a complete new registration is the built from parts box that you can check on the new registrations form. Then you would probably give it an all new serial # of your own choosing. I've heard of people building airplanes with just the data plate to start with. Not sure that is legal, but I think it does happen. Also you mention the PA 18, things are much more controlled in the certified world verses the experimental planes. Seems you are making progress, and that's good. If you went the new registration route, I would get the DAR involved sooner then later. If going with the current registration, get the AnP who will be doing your first conditional inspection onboard so you avoid any issues he won't sign off on. JImChuk

[TravisGillin]

That's what I'm thinking. My A&P is on board and says he doesn't see any issues. I actually have a form 8050 that was signed by the original builder and the purchaser portion is left blank. I believe that the person who purchased it from him (in wrecked form) knew enough to get that and it's a miracle that it was in the binder of papers I received. I think I may still need to talk to a DAR going this route though just to make sure everything is being done in the right way.

[avidflyer]

There is also a postcard the owner is supposed to send to the FAA when he sells the plane. It says he is selling the plane to so and so... On planes I've bought, I've sent it in the with bill of sale, and my request for change of ownership/registration. FAA never complained. Maybe look for it in the paperwork as well. If you need, I can make a copy and sent to you so you know what to be looking for. Just looked at one, and it's 8050-3 form. Some stated do the same. Mn. does anyway. Found it on line JImChuk

https://www.bing.com/th?id=OIP.UehrWXrD3g6yq46Q3EA4uwHaFv&w=221&h=160&c=8&rs=1&qlt=90&dpr=1.25&pid=3.1&rm=2

[109JB]

N226WR was registered but there is nothing in the airworthiness file. I have access and looked. That means that it was likely registered but never completed to the point of getting an airworthiness certificate. The registration expired and was the reason for "de-registration"

One thing you can try is to use the letter to FAA that kitfox has on their website https://kitfoxaircraft.com/wp-content/uploads/FAA-Bill-of-Sale-Issue-Rev-B.pdf and try to use this along with the build documentation and pictures from previous builders to certify it as a new airplane. For a homebuilt the serial number isn't strictly necessary as when completing the paperwork you can specify any serial number you want. Just whatever you pick stays with it. Essentially the clean sheet approach.

You may also be able to get the registration for N226WR into your name, but this requires the paper trail showing ownership. If the gentleman on the expired registration for N226WR is willing to give you a bill of sale for the airplane then that should be all you need. Otherwise you need the bill of sale from him to the next guy to the next guy.....

[TravisGillin]

There is also a postcard the owner is supposed to send to the FAA when he sells the plane. It says he is selling the plane to so and so... On planes I've bought, I've sent it in the with bill of sale, and my request for change of ownership/registration. FAA never complained. Maybe look for it in the paperwork as well. If you need, I can make a copy and sent to you so you know what to be looking for. Just looked at one, and it's 8050-3 form. Some stated do the same. Mn. does anyway. Found it on line JImChuk

https://www.bing.com/th?id=OIP.UehrWXrD3g6yq46Q3EA4uwHaFv&w=221&h=160&c=8&rs=1&qlt=90&dpr=1.25&pid=3.1&rm=2

Okay that's helpful. I've been trying to get in contact with the individual who actually built the aircraft. I had previously assumed he was deceased but turns out he may be in his 70's now and having a good ol'time enjoying retirement somewhere in Virginia. I've sent out a message on Facebook hoping to hear back (also hoping I have the right guy)

[TravisGillin]

N226WR was registered but there is nothing in the airworthiness file. I have access and looked. That means that it was likely registered but never completed to the point of getting an airworthiness certificate. The registration expired and was the reason for "de-registration"

One thing you can try is to use the letter to FAA that kitfox has on their website https://kitfoxaircraft.com/wp-content/uploads/FAA-Bill-of-Sale-Issue-Rev-B.pdf and try to use this along with the build documentation and pictures from previous builders to certify it as a new airplane. For a homebuilt the serial number isn't strictly necessary as when completing the paperwork you can specify any serial number you want. Just whatever you pick stays with it. Essentially the clean sheet approach.

You may also be able to get the registration for N226WR into your name, but this requires the paper trail showing ownership. If the gentleman on the expired registration for N226WR is willing to give you a bill of sale for the airplane then that should be all you need. Otherwise you need the bill of sale from him to the next guy to the next guy.....


This doesn't make since because I have a pink air worthiness certificate that matches the data plate I have perfectly. It also says "EXPIRY Unlimited". Maybe you could shed some light on that for me?

I have a bill of sale that the original builder (The guy on the registration) filled out and left the purchaser portion blank on. All subsequent owners of this project never registered it into their name so essentially, in the eyes of the FAA, I purchased N226WR from him.

[Maquis]

This doesn't make since because I have a pink air worthiness certificate that matches the data plate I have perfectly. It also says "EXPIRY Unlimited". Maybe you could shed some light on that for me?

I have a bill of sale that the original builder (The guy on the registration) filled out and left the purchaser portion blank on. All subsequent owners of this project never registered it into their name so essentially, in the eyes of the FAA, I purchased N226WR from him.

An additional thought about how to proceed; An aviation attorney. Once you contact the FAA you may find your options limited by the initial info you give them.

[Maquis]

An additional thought about how to proceed; An aviation attorney. Once you contact the FAA you may find your options limited by the initial info you give them.
If you are a member of AOPA, they have a 'pilot protection services' premium option that will get you consult time with an aviation attorney, I think up to an hour? for no additional charge after you join that service.
Plan B would be to contact the FAA anonymously and ask away. Of course you may need to call from a 'burner' phone & disguise your voice, etc. if you are at all worried about privacy...

[tommg13780]

I recently bought a folding wing 2 seat airframe (non-Kitfox) that was flown but never registered. My plan was to get an N number and have an A/W inspection done by a DAR that is local to me. After contacting Ron Jones, DAR with contract through the Boston MIDO, he explained to me that he will no longer perform A/W inspections. Due to changes (6/20) to the Form 8130-6 intended to simplify and accelerate the process for applicants he describes the work load for a DAR as beyond difficult and just not worth the trouble. Mr Jones has been known as a guy who helps builders/flyers for his long career as DAR and classic airplane restorer and perhaps his attitude is based on a small number of unpleasant experiences with FAA administrators. I'm just passing this along as reinforcement to the earlier comments that once you start the process you may not like the results. I was able to overcome my situation by taking an alternate path which involved purchasing paperwork from an identical wrecked aircraft that was registered under the E-LSA prior to 2008. The paperwork and data plate were sold as "salvage". I'm sure that there's people out there thinking this practice is possibly illegal and my advice to them is OK, don't do it.