Kitfox model 4

[5thDayAV8R]

Hello everyone, I'm new on here but have been following the progression of the kitfox for well over a year now and I'm finally hoping to buy one. I cannot afford the S7 or a used newer model. There is however a model 4-1200 for sale near me that has the VW 2180cc. I'm not scared of the engine choice as I know I can swap it if I want to. However this plane has the smaller elevator so the seller described it as always wanting to do wheel landings as its hard to get down. My question is can the elevator be swapped for the larger one that came later? Or I've also heard of guys putting weights on the tail. This will be my first airplane so just making sure that I will get a fun plane thats simple to fly. Any advice would be great! Thanks!

[PapuaPilot]

Welcome aboard, I see this is your first post.

Personally I wouldn't want to buy a plane where the owner admits it has poor flying qualities. What if it has more problems than just being nose heavy? If you end up modifying the tail and the engine/prop/firewall forward you are probably going to invest more money than you would in buying a decent used model 4 with a Rotax 912 (4 stroke engine).

Also, when you buy used plane it is worth paying a neutral party who has experience with that type of aircraft to do a pre-buy inspection for you. When you are looking at an experimental plane it's usually a better choice to have someone who has built & flown that model airplane verses an A&P who has zero knowledge of that type. Many people have bought lemons when they get emotionally attached to plane or a low price. It's always better to pay a more money for an aircraft that has lots of hours and is being flown.

FYI there isn't a big market for Kitfox planes that don't have a 4 stroke Rotax or certified engine. They just sit there and there is a good reason why.

You didn't say if you are already a pilot. I would be even more careful of this venture if you are not a pilot yet.

[avidflyer]

I guess a lot will be determined by the price you have to pay for the plane. Not many people have had good results with a VW in a Kitfox or Avid Flyer. A number have tried, so that says something. I don't think there is anything wrong with the size of the Kitfox 4 elevator, and if it's being flown in a way nose heavy situation, you shouldn't correct that with a larger elevator. A nice Kitfox 4 with a 912 will sell for somewhere in the area of 35,000-40,000 these days. With a 582, maybe 10,000 less. I think it's very possible to get a good used 912 and hang it on a plane for 10,000 to 12,000. Should be able to do a good used 582 for half that. Those prices include a motor mount and bits and pieces. (and they are guesses on my part as well) All that being said, I would say, consider the over all shape of the plane, figure on scrapping the engine (if you can sell it to someone else, that's a bonus) and then add in the cost of a different engine. Does it still seem like a good deal? Recently there was a Kitfox 4 with a Subaru with engine problems near me that was listed for $10,000. I was the first guy to call on it that evening. When I called back in the morning to arrange to go look at it, it was already sold. Now that was one it would have been hard to loose money on. Well those are my thoughts, worth what you paid for them. JImChuk

[5thDayAV8R]

Thank you for all of that information! It's very difficult to find a good model 4 with a Rotax that lasts on the market. I had planned on finding someone close by who knows kitfox to do the pre buy. I know someone who is 6 hours from the plane but I was going to try for someone closer by if I decided to go forward. However like you said the plane has been for sale a while and I figure its the engine choice. If it was a Rotax it'd be sold.

I asked about the performance of the plane and the owner told me "Most of my operations are at about 900'msl. Single pilot i see about a 400' -500' takeoff roll and 500-700fpm of climb. 2 up the take off distance is about the same but climb drops a bit. Landings are a bit longer as the plane likes to wheel land. This is because the elevator isn't large enough. Basically the airplane would land a lot slower if you didn't run out of effective elevator. I think they did this to make the stalls more benign but they later produced a larger elevator for it to correct this." I wasn't sure if this was an every model 4 thing even with a Rotax.

And I am a 150hr private pilot working on my instrument rating currently.

[5thDayAV8R]

I guess a lot will be determined by the price you have to pay for the plane. Not many people have had good results with a VW in a Kitfox or Avid Flyer. A number have tried, so that says something. I don't think there is anything wrong with the size of the Kitfox 4 elevator, and if it's being flown in a way nose heavy situation, you shouldn't correct that with a larger elevator. A nice Kitfox 4 with a 912 will sell for somewhere in the area of 35,000-40,000 these days. With a 582, maybe 10,000 less. I think it's very possible to get a good used 912 and hang it on a plane for 10,000 to 12,000. Should be able to do a good used 582 for half that. Those prices include a motor mount and bits and pieces. (and they are guesses on my part as well) All that being said, I would say, consider the over all shape of the plane, figure on scrapping the engine (if you can sell it to someone else, that's a bonus) and then add in the cost of a different engine. Does it still seem like a good deal? Recently there was a Kitfox 4 with a Subaru with engine problems near me that was listed for $10,000. I was the first guy to call on it that evening. When I called back in the morning to arrange to go look at it, it was already sold. Now that was one it would have been hard to loose money on. Well those are my thoughts, worth what you paid for them. JImChuk

Yes this particular plane the seller is asking 30k. A little steep in my opinion with that engine but its a flying airplane.

[avidflyer]

I would think maybe half that price would be more reasonable. Probably one to pass on. Keep your eyes open, things do come up. Actually my Avid MK IV will maybe be for sale soon for less then his price, and it has a way more suited engine to these types of planes with the Jabiru then a VW. Still have to paint the cowl one of these days. I was to anxious to get it flying three years ago and didn't take the time then. Here are a couple of recent videos of it. JImChuk

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JtOCx_uQfk0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f2-U2D4nXfQ

[5thDayAV8R]

I would think maybe half that price would be more reasonable. Probably one to pass on. Keep your eyes open, things do come up. Actually my Avid MK IV will maybe be for sale soon for less then his price, and it has a way more suited engine to these types of planes with the Jabiru then a VW. Still have to paint the cowl one of these days. I was to anxious to get it flying three years ago and didn't take the time then. Here are a couple of recent videos of it. JImChuk

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JtOCx_uQfk0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f2-U2D4nXfQ

Thats a good looking plane you got. There was a kitfox 4 for sale near me about 4 months ago that had the jabiru 2200. I think they decided to keep it and upgrade it with a Rotax 912. These type of planes look like a lot if fun to fly. Flying at its purest

[avidflyer]

I just finished a complete restoration of a Kitfox 4 with 912, and have a couple of more projects waiting in line. I've flown this Avid with the Jabiru for about 600 hrs. Engine was gone through about 120 hrs ago. No point in leaving a plane sit unused, so that's why I'll be selling it eventually. JImChuk