CFI researching planes to buy for training

[firefly_aviator]

This is my first post here so hello! I've been a sport CFI since 2005 (powered parachute and fixed wing), Sport DPE since 2007, and just recently got my full CFI rating. I'm looking at buying an airplane to do my own training and the Kitfox is at the top of the list, but I don't know how much demand there would be for this. The logical part of me says just get a 172, but the emotional side says get a plane for the kind of flying I like to do (taildragger bush style planes).

So if there any CFI's here, I'd love your input in this. If not a CFI, I'd love input on how much demand you think there would be to offer training in this plane.

And for those that bought a Kitfox or other experimental and you didn't have your pilots license yet (sport or PPL), how did you go about getting training?

A stratagy I'm considering is traveling to clients.

I'm very early into the researching side of things so any input you can offer is valuable to me and greatly appreciated!

[109JB]

To charge for training in your airplane it would have to be a factory built lsa version. Otherwise if it was an eab you could only charge for your time as cfi , and not rental time on the airplane. You could also charge for your time as cfi instructing in a Kitfox that you don't own but again not for airplane rental.

[jiott]

In my opinion, it would be very difficult for a flight school to make a go of it using only a Kitfox. Stick & Rudder has done it because they are factory endorsed and close to that great Idaho backcountry. Many students who want a private may not intend to fly a Kitfox or other Rotax powered aircraft, and training behind a Rotax leaves you without any skills in handling mixture, carb heat, and possibly prop pitch. I think the ideal flight school would give the student a choice between a Rotax powered Kitfox taildragger or a Lyc/Con powered C172 trigear.

[avidflyer]

I have an Aeronca Chief 11 BC 85 HP that would be legal to train in. It's also meets light sport requirements. O-200 crankshaft and cylinders Americans Specialities STC 240 hrs ago. Make you a good deal on it..... here is a short video of it. Second one shows the instrument panel that everyone says WOW when they see it. JImChuk

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SvcHsswlp8s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LQrhp3xK1hQ&t=40s

[Jerrytex]

"And for those that bought a Kitfox or other experimental and you didn't have your pilots license yet (sport or PPL), how did you go about getting training?"


I bought a Kitfox and fininshed it back in 2009. I had a Sports PPC license. I took training in an Areonca Champ to get my fixed wing endorsement. Afterwards, it was a fairly easy transition to the Kitfox once you master the cowling angle difference.

My 2 cents is.... the Champ or Chief would probably be the best of both worlds and offer training to a broader group.....the kitfox enthusiasts, and people wanting to add a tailwheel endorsement.

[Cherrybark]

You might have a chat with Halterman Aviation. Just as Jim suggested, they offer training and rentals in a 180hp 172 and a Kitfox SLSA.

https://halt-av.com/aircraft-rentals

[rv9ralph]

I suggest you contact Paul at Stick & Rudder for his comments and recommendations on your concept.

Ralph

[GuppyWN]

To charge for training in your airplane it would have to be a factory built lsa version. Otherwise if it was an eab you could only charge for your time as cfi , and not rental time on the airplane. You could also charge for your time as cfi instructing in a Kitfox that you don't own but again not for airplane rental.

Bingo. Can't rent an amateur built.

[Kitfox Guy]

To charge for training in your airplane it would have to be a factory built lsa version. Otherwise if it was an eab you could only charge for your time as cfi , and not rental time on the airplane. You could also charge for your time as cfi instructing in a Kitfox that you don't own but again not for airplane rental.


interesting, I knew a CFI who taught Tailwheel Endorsement and BFR in his experimental airplane (Not a KF). He would collect his normal hourly rate for his instruction and would split the avgas cost with the student. The student would write two separate checks to him, one for CFI services and a second check to cover 50% of fuel cost. I don’t know if it was 100% FAA legal, but he did it for many years. He recently retired at 80+ years of age with 60+ years of flight.

[avidflyer]

I believe it is legal to share expenses on an experimental aircraft. And if the instructor feels his instruction time is worth $100 an hour, maybe he does all right. That probably skirts the regulations a bit but unless he charged less if the instruction was done in someone else's plane, how would they prove it. JImChuk

[Kitfox Guy]

I used him for several of my BFR and if I recall correctly his CFI rate was around $50 an hour which is the prevailing rate in the area. He wasn’t doing it to make money, I think his primary motivation was the love of flying.

[109JB]

just found this. May be something to look in to.

https://www.avweb.com/recent-updates/experimentals/experimental-aircraft-rentals/

[GuppyWN]

interesting, I knew a CFI who taught Tailwheel Endorsement and BFR in his experimental airplane (Not a KF). He would collect his normal hourly rate for his instruction and would split the avgas cost with the student. The student would write two separate checks to him, one for CFI services and a second check to cover 50% of fuel cost. I don’t know if it was 100% FAA legal, but he did it for many years. He recently retired at 80+ years of age with 60+ years of flight.

He was 100% skirting the rules. Had something happened he'd be screwed. The refs are clear on this.

[109JB]

just found this. May be something to look in to.

https://www.avweb.com/recent-updates/experimentals/experimental-aircraft-rentals/

Follow up to this:

https://shackelford.law/news-aviation/eaa-exemption-7162-expires/#:~:text=Effective%20at%2012%3A01%20a.m.,flight%20 training%20and%20flight%20reviews.

[Greg g]

just found this. May be something to look in to.

https://www.avweb.com/recent-updates/experimentals/experimental-aircraft-rentals/


thanks for posting, very interesting read.


then I read the next post.... BOO, all good things must come to an end!