PDA

View Full Version : Project 5 build thread



Pages : [1] 2

alexM
05-01-2020, 12:05 PM
Well originally I wasn't going to create a build thread, mostly because there are already many great ones and I didn't feel like I would have anything new to contribute. However, I recently read about how important it is to have some kind of build log with photos showing all my work - including all the mistakes I make along the way. The other thing I learned is that not everything required for the matrix brain transplant is found in the "hints and tips" section.

Instead I'm finding that many of you experienced builders follow along on current build projects and offer great advice and encouragement. I'm plenty encouraged so far, but will take all the advice I can get. So here goes!

I'll introduce myself in the next post but I wanted to start with the important part, and that is the project I just obtained.
24532
I saw this project online sometime in late February. It's an old Skystar Kitfox 5 that was never finished or flown. It appealed to me because it came with a bunch of upgrades, and included the 912 ULS FWF kit for a model 7 and a bunch of white Oratex. Upgrades include one piece windshield/skylight, aero struts for wings and tail (along with the originals), fiberglass leading edges, upgraded tail wheel spring and the AWB tailwheel that looks suspiciously identical to the Scott 3200 on my Citabria.

It has also had some defects and some mistakes made. The most glaring defect was the less than flawless powder coating on the fuselage structure, which was apparently common in the Skystar days. And the most glaring mistake made was by the previous owner when he drilled the strut attach fitting and ended up with insufficient edge margins on the internal spar extrusion. The good news is that the kit came with new spars, new internal extrusions and new wing strut attach fittings.

The seller disclosed all the above and it appeared that from 2000 miles away I was still getting a good deal. That only left the issue of transporting the project to my hangar in Tacoma, Washington. I started with the basic cost of flying me and my youngest son to Ohio and renting a 26' Uhaul. From their I sought quotes for a semi truck, DIY shipping container, etc. The Uhaul would have cost about $2600 by itself, not including gas, airfare, hotels and incidentals.

While I was in the process of getting quotes the Corona Craziness took hold, and before long it became obvious that air travel to Ohio was probably not in the cards. Fortunately one opportunity presented itself. At the airport where the project was stored there was a truck driver (a pilot and guy who restored a C150 under the supervision of an IA), who drives west twice per month and is always looking for things to "back haul". Win, win. His quote was about equal to what I was getting from the DIY container places. This left the burden of loading on the previous owner and the truck driver. Thankfully they were willing to do so, and now that the project is here I can say both of them were stand up guys who kept in contact, sent pictures of the load and the plane arrived without a scratch. The trucker sent me a satellite tracking link and he arrived within 15 minutes of his predicted ETA.

The picture above was taken the day the truck showed up. I wheeled my Citabria out of the hangar and tied it down outside so that we weren't wasting the truck driver's time and I had the space to look things over.

More about the unpacking, the builder/pilot and what I've done so far coming up.

Dave S
05-01-2020, 12:51 PM
Alex,

Congrats on your find and successful delivery.

I will say, for the record, if you have the S7 FFW for a Rotax, that is great. Some of my friends with the S5 and old "dynafocal" engine mount system used at the time of the S5 leaves a bit to be desired - those had to have the intake manifolds reversed port to starboard which places the carbs so far away from the engine centerline that vibration and consequent fuel leakage as well as the carb popping off the socket were not unheard of.

Best to you and keep us old timers:rolleyes: on the list informed of your progress.;)

SomeDay7
05-01-2020, 03:52 PM
Alex, Congrats on the success of getting your fox. Just rigtht down the road on south Hill. Should get mine soon too. So please keep us updated on your build.

alexM
05-02-2020, 11:28 AM
Thank you for the warm welcome. I've had the plane now for a bit over two weeks. I spend time every day with the manuals (I have one for the 5 and one for the 7). Some days I focus on my very first steps and other times I flip to the end to see how the story goes.

I've watched some builder videos (Bryan Bowen's work has really been helpful). I've made about four trips the hangar to put my hands on parts and compare them to what I know about the aircraft so far. The plane is starting to make sense to me and I can visualize most of the steps.

To level set before I go on, the first builder (there have been two) had done quite a bit of work as evidenced by the parts in my possession and the second one did some work, but then became disappointed in the quality of the powder coating and decided to "back the truck up" to have the fuselage stripped and redone. I know this because he disclosed it during our discussions and also because he left a build thread here. It looks like he stopped posting at the time he discovered the errors in drilling up the wing attach fittings and also before he started removing everything from the fuselage.

Initially I was going to continue stripping the fuselage but have changed my mind (several times actually). I am electing to NOT strip the fuselage to have the powder coating redone. I base my decision on the following:
The previous owner inspected the entire fuselage for loose powder coating and corrosion, then addressed it all using white epoxy primer. Hey, at least it will be easy to see where to paint over it.

Secondly, I have spent quite a bit of time examining the fuselage and have found no evidence of other defects in the powder coating.

Third, I would either have to remove all the control surface bushings that have been installed with loctite or spend a whole lot of time masking them off.

Fourth, I'm assured that powder coating has come a long ways in the past 20 years, but I notice that the manual for the KF7 still points out the need to look in all the places that powder coating may be thin or not present.

Lastly, it sure seems like if I did have fresh powder coating I would still be spending a lot of time reaming through it, sanding at least part way through it, roughing it up, touching it up - and then gluing covering over the whole mess not to be seen again for at least a couple of decades. So as long as the visible sections look nice (and the red does look sexy), and corrosion has been addressed, what is the point?

I spent about four hours in my hangar yesterday. I hesitate to call it doing inventory because I didn't document anything. Below I'm going to itemize the good and bad, in the form of what has been done correctly and then what has either been done incorrectly or removed by the previous owner.

The good:
The original owner did good work on the horizontal stabilizer, elevator and rudder. They are all intact and undamaged. The rudder appears ready for cover but the other two pieces will need their foam/balsa end caps added and filled.

The original owner had most of the flight controls installed at one point


The bad:
The previous owner has removed all the previously installed wood ribs, bulkhead etc, access panel closeouts, etc from the aft fuselage and vertical fin. Most of those pieces were damaged in the process.

The previous owner also removed the aluminum tube side stringers and the rudder cable guide tubes
The previous owner removed the aluminum door trim pieces.


The ugly:

The wings? They're going to need their own post. Fortunately I have that plan worked out already.

Step one took place took place after only two days, and that was to make it so I could fit my Citabria back in the hangar, along with my son's MR2 and one motorcycle. I hung one wing on the wall and dismantled the rotisserie, then got the Citabria in. Currently, if you want to fly the Citabria you have to wheel one wing outside and put it back once the Citabria is pulled out. It's not ridiculous, but hardly ideal.
24534

alexM
05-02-2020, 12:07 PM
Last week I made my first order from John at Kitfox. I ordered all new vertical fin ribs, bulkhead, aluminum extrusion for the stab closeout panels, rudder cable guide tubing and foam blocks for the tips of the control surfaces. I also ordered new ribs for the wings.

The only physical work I've done on the plane was to bring the aluminum door surround pieces home to test out removing Hysol with a heat gun. It was low risk and turned out to be quite easy. A few seconds of moving the heat gun around on it and the stuff nearly jumps off. On one of my trips to the hangar I brought the pieces back to the plane to see how they fit. That was a good exercise in RTFM because I had imagined them bonding to the outboard AND top surfaces of the square tubing, when in fact they only bond to the outer surface and stand proud of the tubing. I totally get why now, and was able to get all the pieces to fit in place. They aren't perfect but they are pretty good. I will probably just clean them up, fix one rivet location that was close to an edge and then turn to my new friend Superfill

I was so encouraged at how easy it was to get the Hysol removed cleanly that I turned my attention to the wing not hanging on the wall. There I discovered a completely different set of characteristics. Basically that the structural adhesive used (my KF5 manual indicates it is a 3M product) does not reach glass transition phase as cheerfully as Hysol does. I could see where the previous owner had worked away at the adhesive around the forward spar and it appeared he wasn't getting it hot enough to cause the adhesive to turn to rubbery stage. After an hour of experimenting on a rib that I was willing to sacrifice I was only partially successful, and that only after seeing the wood start to discolor from the heat. The adhesive was still mostly rock hard.

Possibly I could develop the technique through continued experimentation. I know people buy older wrecked Kitfoxes and make them airworthy all the time, so maybe there is a trick I don't know. Bottom line, I know what my time is worth and if it took 100 hours to remove 16 ribs (all time spent going backwards and not forward) I should consider finding out how much new ribs cost. $1200 is the answer, to which my response was "shut up and take my money".

The added bonus John brought to my attention is that by going to the new style ribs (no "hinge rib" or "plain" rib) I can use the new style flaperon attach brackets. After he said that I looked in both my manuals. Wow, yeah. I'll go with the new style for sure.

Since my project came with new spars, new inserts and new strut attach brackets (the old ones are actually fine), the only thing I will be salvaging is the drag/anti-drag tubes and fittings. Now those I can get off even if it means extra heat on those ribs where they pass through. Building my own wings from scratch will be satisfying on several levels, and of course also contribute to my needed 51%.

Oh, and because I'm babbling randomly: One of the reasons the previous owner elected to strip the fuselage was because he wanted to upgrade to the KF7 style turtle deck. I'm still not completely clear on what those differences are but I believe it would require tabs welded somewhere. I've seen versions of 1 piece turtle decks for KF5 on this forum and I think I'll be fine with that (my Citabria has no baggage door of any kind and I'm still alive).

alexM
05-04-2020, 07:53 AM
I thought I would throw in a couple of pictures of the other planes I fly while I'm on a computer that has them, and add a quick bio for the curious.

First up is my 1965 7ECA Citabria, s/n 290 which I have had for about three years. It was upgraded to a 150hp O-320 decades ago so it is comparable to a 7GCAA. It has been a great aircraft for me and if I were able to perform my own maintenance, inspections and upgrades I would not be building a Kitfox. I was actually at the threshold of buying a kit three years ago when I realized I could buy a flyable aircraft and just put gas in it for less than the cost of a kit without engine/prop/avionics. No regrets, I've put a bunch of 100LL through this plane and it has treated me very well.

24562

Next up is the T-6, or more properly an SN5. Oddly I took this picture over a year before I ever met the owner or knew I would be flying it. At the time I was flying my uncle's BT-13 and this plane caught my eye because the paint scheme was similar to a T-6 my uncle restored when I was a kid. The green stripes indicate it was an instrument trainer. The cool thing about this particular warbird is that the paint scheme is not only authentic, it is in the livery that this exact airplane had when it last served the US Navy in 1956. After putting somewhere north of 120 hours on the BT-13 we sold it to a guy in Texas and I flew it down there with him.
This SNJ popped up on the used market here in our state so we went and looked at it. I have only put about 20 hours on this aircraft. It had some radio issues that kept me from attending some of the airshows I wanted to get to, and we were also trying to flip it (for a T-28) but the buyer backed out in the end. I have since upgraded the radios to a GNC255 and a Stratus ESGi transponder. I liked the transponder setup well enough that I installed the exact same unit in my Citabria.
24563
Me, I'm in my 50s. I've been flying for about 24 years. I became a CFI in the early 2000s and made a go of it for a while. I thought I wanted to live out of a 21" carry-on for days at a time but ended up going back to a desk job and have now worked for a very large airplane company for the past 13 years. My career has been mostly CNC programming, aerospace tool design and more recently flight deck design. My current job places me as a link between the design engineers and the pilots. Prior to coming to my current employer I worked for various suppliers. I worked hands on with factory workers on sheet metal, machined extrusion and composite parts. I have also been building and flying model airplanes since I was a 2nd grader.

That's me in a nutshell I guess.

alexM
05-05-2020, 03:03 PM
I've continued to read through the manuals and compare between the series 5 and 7. I've noticed that on the aluminum side stringers they don't have you use the cross pieces anymore. They have also gone away from the single wooden stringer up the middle of the belly and replaced it with an aluminum tube. I actually like both of those changes.
As for the door trim pieces, I am trying to figure out if the trim along the lower edge of the door has changed, or if the detail drawing view in my particular manual is in error. My pieces adhere to the outboard vertical face of the square fuselage tubing -end of message. However,the cross section view in the series 7 manual shows it covering the outboard face, the top face and the inboard face of that same square tube. Like an upside down U.

Soliciting input from the gallery as I look ahead:

1) Does everyone use the supplied seat belts, and does everyone route them the same way (with the slots in the seat pan) as shown on the drawing? So far what I'm finding in my search is "yes" and "yes". I'm just used to strapping in with a set of Hooker harnesses and I'm surprised they aren't more common, especially with the improvised runway crowd. Getting those slots in the right place seems a bit of a guess.

2) For removing powder coating and paint from the various fuselage mounting tabs, what is the preferred method? I need to address all the floor mounting tabs where some plywood shims were de-bonded by the previous owner. I would like to clean them up and hit them with epoxy primer. I don't want to hit it with a wire wheel or sand paper if that is forbidden. I got the message regarding sandpaper on aluminum parts from the front section of the manual, and just want to know if I'm missing the same kind of instructions for the steel tubing.

Scotchbrite wheel on an air motor maybe?

3) Wing tips. My plane came with the Hoerner style (still untouched). I like the look and I like that they add a bit of wingspan. What I don't like is the weight. By they time they are faired and finished it will be like a couple of boat anchors out there. I'm thinking about the newer removable type, but only if they are significantly lighter.

Dang, I had more questions but I blinked a few times. I'm sure they'll come to me when I hit "submit reply".

Dave S
05-05-2020, 03:34 PM
Alex,

To address the bottom door channel - the 5, 6, and early 7 (meaning pre John Mcbean 7's) had the piece bonded to the outside of the steel tube at the bottom of the door opening only. The current ones slide over the steel frame member which is a superior solution.

Just a hint on that - the new one is better; however, the old version works fine if a person is careful to glue the fabric over the seam and into the corner and iron it in. I know of one S5 where the builder did not run the fabric over the bond seam and the angle separated a short time after the plane was finished. Those with the old version, including ours, stay secure with the fabric overlap.

Don't know about the belts, however, I got mine from John and they are the hookers 4 points. No problem with slots in the seat pan - a person can sit in the pan and pull the lap belt out to where it will go and pretty see where the slot should go. There really isn't any way to use the seat pan without slots.

Good to hear of your progress!

bbs428
05-07-2020, 10:32 AM
Great read Alex. I'll be following along. All the best! :D

alexM
05-09-2020, 02:51 PM
Got my first shipment from Kitfox a couple of days ago. It arrived in perfect condition and the parts all look great.
24582
I had no idea the McBeans were Italian (dang I hope at least one person gets that one).

I sold my non-aero shaped wing struts to a member of this forum, and they left here this morning in a Prius owned by the builder of a Highlander - headed for Homedale, ID. Funny because he didn't know me or the buyer of the struts, just a guy helping out because of our common interest in amateur built airplanes.

Today I'm in the process of building a set of precision 46" long saw horses so that I can begin fabrication of the wings. I just found some ideas on the internet and then bought the straightest lumber I could find. Then I further selected them to create a pair of pin-straight I beams.
The rest of the lumber will be used for the legs, and when they are done I'll square them up and Bondo them to my brand new garage floor (cringing a little bit on that but sacrifices have to be made).

alexM
05-11-2020, 08:00 PM
I am now more envious of the build threads of you guys with immaculate three car garages with epoxy floors. I wonder how many of the rest of you fell into the same trap I have, requiring some nest building before really getting any airplane parts cut. It's a rabbit trail that goes deep into the earth.

We moved in March to a house we bought over a year ago. The 'new' house is a Victorian built in 1905. The house was a dump but it had good bones and once my favorite woman is done with it, it will be quite an upgrade (it's actually shocking how much we've done so far). The garage though, not so much. Before the move I had an approximately two car garage before with a pretty good loft, and now I have a long single car garage. I won't win any contests for building in the smallest space, especially because I already have a hangar, but it's not ideal.

115 years old and no one ever poured a slab in the garage. Where the house has good bones the garage does not. At some point in the last century someone extended the garage from roughly 11.5 x 21' to about 11.5 x 30'. I'm happy for the extra 9' but it's obvious that whoever did the extension had no structural background of any kind. Where the studs used to go up to the rafters, they cut them off. At first glance it appeared like they installed a header. In reality they nailed a 2x6 to the side of the cut off studs and provided no support at the ends. It was literally hanging from the studs instead of holding them up.

The stud spacing for the entire structure ranges from 24-29". Several of the ceiling joists (the horizontal piece) was sagging from people using them as loft storage. Upon exposing the studs on the long back wall I found many that were a Rube Goldberg variation of scabbed together 2x4s at random angles.

We had a slab poured about twenty days before we moved in. With the house being a priority I have been tripping on everything I own just getting various projects done. This past weekend it was time to make space to bring the fuselage home or build wings. I started by staring at those messy studs and then came to the conclusion that I would need to shore up the structure before I put in any work benches, extra outlets, or hang anything on the walls.

At the end of one long sweaty day I had removed the imposter "header", trimmed the hanging studs a bit higher, installed a plate a cross the bottom of the them, created a more substantial header from two 2x6s and made two stub walls to support it. I doubled up the ceiling joists with full length "sisters", jacking up the old sagging pieces before joining them together. I'm a big fan of screws and haven't spent much time swinging a hammer in the past few decades, and certainly not since getting bifocals.

I have replaced the dreary incandescent bulbs with some of those LED lights with "wings". Holy smokes I could probably offer the place up for surgical procedures if they didn't mind some dirt. I've got several pieces of peg board to put up and some budget for benches, cabinets and storage solutions.

My saw horses for wing construction are done. One of them came out pin straight, sits rock solid on the garage floor and shows perfectly level. The other is also pin straight but wobbled a little bit. At one end it measures exactly the same height (32-3/16")and the other is a tiny bit low. That will actually work out well for purposes of leveling them and making them "fast" to the floor with bondo.

alexM
06-10-2020, 10:12 AM
I haven't posted in a bit but I have been moving forward, mostly with the logistics and preparation. A few shots here and it has improved since then. After making structural improvements on the garage I sheeted most of the walls with OSB and primed everything. I added LED lighting and three strategically located outlets. I set up a charging station for various electric tools. I bought a big roll around tool chest to use as a bench and to store the majority of my automotive tools. It won't actually be moved except to retrieve FOD. In a stroke of OCD insanity I used my label maker to identify every drawer.
24819

24817
I loathe peg board but put some up anyway. We had some gray paint left over from another project which my girlfriend encouraged me to use up, so that's what is going on there. You can see my charging station to the right under one of the new outlets. That is an antique dynamite crate I bought when I was a single dude. New tools include the 4' digital level and a good 4' straight edge. The yellow plastic level is junk more suitable for playing whiffle ball than establishing either straight or level. I've got a real nice 6' level in my hangar that I'll be replacing it with. Not visible are the Milwaukee die grinder, angle grinder and pop rivet gun.

I also went through the list of builder tools and realized I wasn't going to get very far before obtaining some of them. After doing some online shopping I came to the conclusion that the Kitfox prices on Hysol, Clecos, drill bits, reamers, swage tools, etc. are quite competitive with the rest of the world, so that became my second order. I also bought a ton of clamps.

24818
I then bought a smaller roll around tool cart to have next to me while working on the plane. Then I pulled out the bins of hardware that came with the project. Pro tip: Don't drive around for three weeks in your sporty SUV with those in the back even if they're shrink wrapped. My first new skill was learning to identify pop rivets and AN hardware. In doing so I learned quite a bit, including identifying and cross referencing everything.
24816
The manual starts with flight controls so that's what I did too. Part of my hardware identification skills came when I disassembled everything and measured every fastener, checked torque and measured any dimensions that were left to the builder to fabricate. It was going along swimmingly until I came to the white parts on the bench, which you'll all recognize as the rudder pedal/brake pedal attach brackets. They look fine but had several dimensional issues.

Another email to Kitfox resulted in an order for prefabricated parts, which are now in hand. While those were on the way I flew to the east coast to ferry a Cardinal RG back to Seattle for a friend/previous student of mine. He and his wife had been on vacation in St Maarten and were "stranded" when the pandemic struck. They were finally able to get a repatriation flight to the US, and in the meantime Mike had bought this plane sight unseen. The trip started with gear retraction issues (fixed on the ground and test flown satisfactorily), then radio issues (solve in the air) and some typical Cessna gauge issues. Then throw in some of the craziest weather along our route of flight, we finally arrived in KBFI after 24.1 hours of flight time. The last pic shown below is SW of Casper, WY where we had a ground speed of 28 knots. It was a rough ride. We had two times we landed to wait for thunderstorms to blow over us and fought some marginal VFR across Idaho.
24820
24821
24822

efwd
06-10-2020, 07:03 PM
Awe hell. You would probably have a heart attack if you came to my garage. I started out organized but my true nature come to light within days.

bbs428
06-11-2020, 02:08 AM
Looking mighty fine! Organization will save you untold hours of frustration.

I'm in Eddie's camp as no matter how "organized I try to be, my kaos nature kicks in and my workspace turns to doggie doo. I always replace my tools prior to quitting time so tools can be found, however my trick is to pick up a vital part/hardware and then put it down in the most unlikely place. Then I spend hours looking for said part/hardware! When I'm having a bad day I clean the shop and go thru all the boxes and cubby holes. I usually find what I'm looking for BEFORE I order new hardware... most of the time! :rolleyes:

Jerrytex
06-11-2020, 07:36 AM
Great thread. I just sold my KF 4 and I am in high gear now on my model 5 build, which means the aircraft spruce boxes are going to start piling up.

I'll be following your thread closely.

I am sure you probably have already researched this but in case not, it would be wise to do the rudder pedal assembly reinforement now since everything is still disassembled.

Shadowrider
06-11-2020, 10:32 AM
Nothing I hate more than looking for tools!

alexM
06-12-2020, 09:30 AM
Thanks for the replies. This garage is the most organized I've ever had. I can relate to the shops in disarray because it is in my DNA. My dad's mode was that if it would keep for 6 months and you might have a use for it, it stayed. His last shop looked like Russian soldiers ransacked a hoarder's garage. I used to only sort of joke that every time I got a decent tool box it was stolen shortly after that. About four years ago I had to rebuild the engine in a Porsche, and damn was I organized for that project! It went so much smoother being able to see a missing wrench from across the room. At the end of each work session I took the time to put everything away, and it more than made up for time spent searching for a missing tool/part.

Good call on the rudder pedal reinforcement. It is part of my current work.

Yesterday was the first time I felt like I accomplished direct hands on work on my Kitfox. With the new rudder pedal brackets in hand I got to practice surface conversion. My project came with Bonderite C-IC 33 Alumiprep acid deoxidizer and M-CR 1201 Alodine. I printed out the data/instruction sheets, mixed my chemicals and did an initial cleaning of the parts with acetone. I got dirt on my rag so that was a good idea. I used the temperatures and times suggested and was quite surprised at the fizzing away as the parts were etched. I rinsed thoroughly to see the very shiny parts, and then it was straight to the Alodine. I'm used to Alodine treated parts being a little splotchy but these came out beautifully as if they were gold anodized. Rinsed again and dried.
24852
The other thing I did was head to my local Wesco auto body supply store to get a can of custom enamel to match the red powder coating of my steel parts. While I was there I inquired about a product I had never heard of before: two part epoxy in a spray can. My uncle was doing some work on the SNJ recently and started talking about it. I thought he was losing it but it's a real thing. Maybe I'm just late to the party but I got a can of epoxy primer yesterday. You use part of the cap to break something inside and it mixes the catalyst. Then you have 8-12 hours to use it up.
24853
I've got the two part Epoxy from Kitfox but as of yet I haven't mixed or sprayed any. I'm guessing there is a learning curve and I don't want to make my freshly alodined parts ugly. I have some prep work to do on the fuselage still so I'll wait until I can justify cracking open that can. I pick up the can of red this afternoon. It's single part so not as life limited as the epoxy.
24854
Regarding the rudder pedal reinforcement: Last night I used the pattern depicted on the Service Bulletin to make a 1:1 paper doll and test it on my rudder pedal torque tubes. I didn't love the way it fit or looked, so I used the pattern as a basis for a new one. I'll be mocking that up before I cut any stainless steel. The one I made is slightly asymmetrical in order to work with the rivet pattern already established on the torque tube. I'll post pics when I get there.

bbs428
06-12-2020, 10:19 AM
Great job on the alodine parts! :D

airlina
06-12-2020, 04:05 PM
Alex., do you have the name of that two part epoxy primer in a spray can? I wasn't aware of it either and would be nice for small jobs that I have. thanks Bruce N199CL

Delta Whisky
06-12-2020, 04:46 PM
I'm curious as to why you are cutting the gussets out of SS? (I'm not familiar with the SB - if that is what it calls for.)

alexM
06-12-2020, 07:20 PM
That's actually a damn good question. SB38 can be found on the kitfox web page. Apparently I have been hallucinating because I just read through the entire thing and the material type isn't mentioned anywhere.

Possibly I've read what others did, or possibly it's because I happen to have some 0.016" stainless.

Astute readers will observe that the SB lists the Vixen but it is tribal knowledge that all model 5s and on need reinforcement.

The SB states that the kit with parts will be provided free of charge but it is a Skystar document and I don't feel like it's the McBean's responsibility to fill that order.

I made two paper doll iterations before arriving at what I think will be the ideal flat pattern.

Interested to hear what material others have used

alexM
06-12-2020, 07:27 PM
Alex., do you have the name of that two part epoxy primer in a spray can? I wasn't aware of it either and would be nice for small jobs that I have. thanks Bruce N199CL



Bruce
That's the stuff right there. Check with your local auto body store.
24859

24856
I left one of my non Puka pedals with the paint shop so he could match my custom rattle can. One of these two pedals was used for a test and the other came out of my tub of parts I'll never use. I would say I'm pretty happy with the results

Delta Whisky
06-12-2020, 08:10 PM
The reason I asked about the material choice was because I once had a really bad experience with SS welded to mild steel. I don't know how a SS to steel weld would behave in the long term on the pedal assembly but I would hazard a guess that the pedal is made with 4130 and would recommend that you stick with that. Additionally, some SSs are too malleable to be strengtheners on 4130 and I'd be concerned with .016 not being up to the job in any event. Just one opinion and it is worth exactly what you paid. Maybe there is a metallurgist on the forum and will weigh in.

alexM
06-12-2020, 08:47 PM
Ah. It's not welded. It's riveted and bonded with structural adhesive.
I'll see if I can find a good visual aid.

Edit:. This is from the service bulletin

24860

airlina
06-13-2020, 03:18 AM
thanks for the photo of the primer cans Alex. And also there was a recent thread on the rudder pedal issue and i posted some pics of how I handled it on my Series 5 without welding with SS , rivets and scotchweld (3m version of hysol) . Bruce N199CL

alexM
06-24-2020, 10:44 AM
One step forward and a few steps back

I’m sure I’m the first person to experience setbacks while building an aircraft. After doing the alodine treatment of my rudder pedal brackets I had one of those forehead slapper moments when I realized that the previous builder had installed the flight controls into the fuselage at one point – which means that they match drilled the (dimensionally incorrect) brackets to the steel channels in the fuselage. That in turn means that my new brackets are unusable unless I have the holes in the steel channels welded up and I re-drill them. More on that later.
I took advantage of father’s day to spend my day working on my Kitfox. Knowing that all of the following steps are a dry run, and that I’ll be removing all of this at least one more time before final torque values are applied, I installed the control column assembly (the contraption with the sticks) into the fuselage, installed the bell crank for aileron control, and then installed the push-pull tube which goes between that bell crank and the flaperon mixer.
I installed the flap handle and the push-pull tube which goes to the flaperon mixer for flap control. I set the center console in place and verified that the flap detents work with the flap handle (works perfect).
24933

I installed the small intermediate elevator bell crank (I think it has a different name but I can’t remember it right now. It’s sort of a pendulum thing) near the back of the seats, installed the elevator push-pull tube from the control column to that intermediate bell crank, and hooked up the forward end of the long elevator push-pull tube used in the model 5. I found that I was missing the sleeve bushing that goes in the tail cone and sent an inquiry to Debra at Kitfox to see if those are even available. They are, and I now have one on the way.


I loosely installed the rudder pedal assemblies and sure enough the previous builder’s match drill efforts resulted in the rudder pedals aligning very well. I was hoping they would be wrong so I could justify welding/re-drilling. Still more on that later.
Of course I had to take advantage of the moment and actually sit in the aircraft. Thank the maker for bubble doors. Occupant comfort will be “sufficient” and not much more, but I’m okay with that. I learned to fly in a C152 and find the room pretty comparable. I would have said the Kitfox was easier to get in and out of until I installed the sticks.
While sitting in the airplane I boxed the controls a few times and felt friction in the ailerons. Part of it was caused by me sitting in a seat which was flexing quite a bit, a result of not having any hardware retaining it. Contributing was very limited space under the seat from the aileron push-pull tube.
While sorting parts recently I put my hands on the various push-pull tubes to identify them all. Two of them have a slight bend in them. The KF 5 manual doesn’t say anything about the bends, but the KF 7 manual does. Using the dimensions in the KF 7 manual I was able to identify one for aileron control and the other (longer) one for flap control. The manual says the short end of the bend on both tubes goes aft, so I labeled the parts and installed them that way.


I wondered if maybe the KF 5 used straight tubes originally but mine are powder coated red the same as the rest of the fuselage, and once installed I don’t see how straight tubes could possibly have worked. So I think it was just a shortcoming in the KF 5 manual that it doesn’t tell you how to deal with the bent tubes.
The loosely assembled aileron bell crank came with a stack of washers so I knew there was going to be adjustments needed. I quickly discovered that this bell crank needed to be biased as high as possible between the fuselage mounting tabs in order to keep the aileron push-pull tube from contacting the fuselage tubes as it moves. I got it to clear but just barely. Eventually I found the sweet spot for orientation of the bend in the aileron push-pull tube so that it would not contact either the fuselage tubing or the bottom of the seat (even with the seat flexing because of my gravitational impact).
24934

My other side project was to incorporate the Service Bulletin to address the cracking issues in the rudder pedal torque tubes. I used the SB (found in the technical section of the Kitfox web site) to create a mylar template. I thought I would be able to send my CAD file to a couple of places that could make the parts for me but I was no-quoted both times. I guess working with thin stainless wasn’t their favorite thing to do. So I ordered some 0.020” stainless shim stock from McMaster-Carr. I used the cut off wheel on my die grinder to make one part before I realized it was pretty crude for the process, not to mention having consumed an entire 2” cut off wheel for one part.
So I obtained some aviation tin snips (both left and right) and practiced some more. I used my cut off wheel to slice the remaining shim stock into 2” strips, giving me 6 parts where I needed 4. I’ve been in the business long enough to know I would probably need those extras.
I guess Dykem layout die is not as popular as it once was. We can thank CNC machinery for that. I couldn’t find any locally, so I improvised by dusting the stainless with some self-etching primer, then got to work with a carbide scribe and a spring loaded center punch. The tin snips worked very well for cutting the shapes out. I drilled one hole in each end of the parts and used clecos to hold them all together. That allowed me to use the 3M discs on my angle grinder to get the periphery of the parts closer to the same. And finally, I used my drill press to drill the other four holes with the parts stacked together. They’re not perfect but they’re not terrible (and yes, they are intentionally asymmetrical)

24935

Welding

Now I’m at a cross road. I have three areas where I could use the services of a skilled welder, and I could theoretically avoid all three – but do I want to? While going down the path of creating the stainless straps for the rudder pedal torque tube Service Bulletin I kept going back to the possibility of finding someone to weld the triangle gussets employed by the factory currently. Where I initially had concerns that the gussets would difficult to dodge the rivets on the outboard pedals, I am now equally concerned about being able to pick up the three holes common to the existing rivet pattern and translating them to my stainless straps. It is going to require some luck and possibly those two extra parts before I declare success.

Upon further review, if I go the welded gusset route I would have to drill out the existing rivets anyway, and the only ones which would be difficult to access for reinstallation would be the two up on top that would be between the gussets. I have verified that I can reach the most inboard one with gussets in place and may be able to reach the outboard one. If not I could just add another rivet where ever I can to meet the design strength.
The second application of welding is the one I referred to for rudder pedal mounting brackets. Again, I could go either way and just get over it but I would always know I let a discrepancy slide. Not a safety issue, just an OCD thing. And I’m not very OCD.
Lastly, I have read recommendations to beef up the tailwheel support at the back of the fuselage. The link I followed yesterday shows it is just a doubling up of the existing plate, which should be cake for any welder.
I’m prepped as far as primer and paint goes, so at this point I can deal with some welding. It will require that I load up the fuselage and take it to the chosen welder, or that they be mobile. I’m going to seek quotes today and decide. If I employ a welder at all, I will be going with my new rudder pedal brackets.
24936
The other thing I did was buy a new 1/4" drive torque wrench of much higher quality than the harbor freight crappy one I have used to strip two AN3 bolts with already. This new one is very small and cheerfully applies as little as 10 inch pounds.

bbs428
06-25-2020, 07:13 AM
Time to invest in a small mig welder and get some OJT. My millermatic is essential piece of gear out here in the country. I'm self taught and not the best welder but .023 wire will allow me to make some nice stitch welds on thin tubing.

My fix was to the rudder pedals Port side only. Was a bit dicey as the tubing is so thin. Glad it's done and over. Prior to welding I was wishing I'd just riveted the darn thing! lol. ;) A screw up here would not be good.

All the best and Keep up the great work!

alexM
06-25-2020, 08:29 AM
Learning to weld has actually been on my "to do" list for decades. The pieces have never fallen into place for that, but that might have changed yesterday afternoon. I looked on my local craigslist for welding services offered and found an ad that said all the right things (TIG, 4130 and that he's an A&P). So I called him up and we had a nice conversation. Not only is he a qualified welder he flies a King Air and he teaches the A&P curriculum at a local community college.

We discussed the three potential applications for welding on my Kitfox and he asked me questions about wall thickness and the type of filler material. I got a brief education on preheating and stress relief - both of which should be of minimal concern with the thicknesses involved here. I've got some measuring to do for wall thicknesses, and I need to figure out how thick the triangle gussets need to be and also the reinforcement for the tail wheel. He mentioned ER70S-2 instead of 4130 filler (confirmed now that I've read up a bit), but it also looks like ER80S-D2 could be used.

He told me he has no problem teaching me and letting me practice on some scrap material and then supervising while I do the actual welding. I'm to obtain the 4130 and filler since he doesn't have any on hand (says almost all the welding demand he has now is for stainless and aluminum). Then we'll coordinate me trailering my fuselage to his shop. I'm thinking that when the welding cools off I'll bring it to my garage to do the primer and paint fixes and complete the installation of flight controls so the fuselage is ready to cover.

For the rudder pedal reinforcement I will be doing both sides since I will be flying from the right seat quite often (possibly most of the time).

alexM
07-01-2020, 07:53 PM
I'm anticipating my elevator push-pull tube bearing from Kitfox any day now, along with my latest aircraft spruce order. That order will contain my usual fistful of hardware and the 4130 sheet metal, welding rod etc.

I took the opportunity to deconstruct the rudder pedal torque tubes by drilling out the rivets. Back in my 20's I drilled out hundreds of aluminum rivets when I had a job at a place that sold sea kayaks. Except that these are steel, not aluminum so it was much slower going.
I started out using some Harbor Freight (supposedly) HSS TiN coated still bits I already owned. I swear I've eaten pasta that is tougher. So I ditched that plan and used one of the bits I ordered through Kitfox recently. Much better. I spent part of my life as a CNC programmer and took pride in learning the proper feeds and speeds for various materials (and wow is it a wide range). With a decent drill bit and proper lube I was able to drill out every single rivet and still have a sharp bit when I was done.
24987

alexM
07-20-2020, 11:40 PM
I keep catching blurbs from someone building a CH701 with the line "something every day". Well I can't claim to be doing something on my Kitfox every day but I finally got a major task complete and that was taking my fuselage and rudder pedals to the welder. From where I'm at now I need to do some light grinding, sanding, primer and lastly my color matched red. Then I can make some progress installing flight controls, floor boards, seat etc - all of which I've read ahead on many times.

Before I get long winded (which I know is about to happen because I've already typed it) I'll say that the three thing welded were the triangle gussets on the rudder pedal torque tubes, filling the outer holes for the rudder pedal torque tube brackets, and reinforcing the platform for the tail wheel leaf spring.

When my Aircraft Spruce order showed up I got to work fabricating triangle gussets. I wanted to make them 1.75x1.75 so I started by cutting 2" squares out of the 2x36" strip of 0.032" 4130 stock with my tin snips. I took my time and made some very accurate 2" squares. I scribed lines for the finished long edge of the triangle and rough cut the triangles, then came back and cut to the line. Maybe someone out there can follow an exact line on the first pass but I can only get "pretty close" and I don't like the results as much.

In the end I was pretty happy with my very uniform 1.75" triangles, so I deburred them with a 2" scotchbrite wheel, cleaned them with acetone and set them aside without touching them.

I also made a reinforcement piece for the leaf spring mount at the rudder post. The example I saw doubled up the thickness of the flange and then bent almost 90 degrees to form a sort of triangle gusset attaching it to the rudder post. I don't have a press brake and as much as I'd like to have one, the ones I can afford are good to about half the sheet thickness I needed. In the end I made a gusset flange out of 0.125 4130 and it's welded to the existing flange quite solidly. For that piece I accurately laid out some thin scribe lines, then laid some masking tape exactly on that line. Next I took a sharpie pen and made a big fat line along the tape edge. Pulling the tape off I then had a nice thick, very clean edge to follow with my 3" cutoff wheel. I got lucky and my first one was right on the dimensions after deburring.

I'll edit later to insert some pics, but I coordinated with the guy that would do the welding and went to rent a trailer or possibly a truck at U-haul. The only thing they had that could possibly do the job was a 26' truck.

I took one of my sons to the airport and loaded up the fuselage. He pulled the tail up the ramp and I duck waddled the front of the fuselage until I could get the mains into the truck, then I secured it from moving. I'm guessing there won't be too many trips with this plane that will be this easy.

I get up the next morning and see that the outer dually is flat (the bead was loose). Blah, blah and U-haul roadside assist came through and we're on the way. The welder was a super nice guy who was stoked to be working on a plane. A lot of his business is race cars.

He put me and my son to work using 2 and 3 in scotchbrite wheels to remove the powder coating where the welding would be done. The first thing he did was fill the holes where the rudder pedal brackets mount to the fuselage channels. Easy job.

Then he moved on to the tail reinforcement. Once he had it welded to the tail post and front edges we rolled the fuselage up on it's side so he could complete a nice bead on the outer corner. He also discovered a weld in the most acute inside corner at the very back that wasn't welded well so he fixed it (I'll note here that I have a Skystar fuselage, not a current build Kitfox)

I was able to practice a few inches of TIG welding with the equipment. I learned pretty quickly that my bifocal glasses were all wrong for the welding helmet because the auto dimming window was perfectly positioned for the distant portion of my glasses. If there's a next time I'll dig up my single vision glasses I hardly wear but would be perfect for this.

I probably should have destroyed the evidence of my welding prowess but I didn't start the place on fire or get to smell myself burning so I'm marking it down as a win. Needless to say I let him do the gussets. It was apparent that we should have sanded the powder coating off further from the weld than I did. Again, 2" scotchbrite wheel removes everything back to clean metal and feathered into the good powder coating.

Today I picked up some 2" sanding discs so I can blend the filled holes to make them invisible after paint. I did not have him fill the holes for the center bracket or brake master cylinder bases since they were all correctly located.

Then we trucked the fuselage back to the hangar. Since I had the truck, I picked up the crate with the new spars and extrusions and took it to my garage.

alexM
07-30-2020, 09:32 AM
I've learned that a feature of this forum is that you can't come back later and edit a post to add pics.
Since all my pics are taken with my phone and typing significant content isn't phone friendly I will post some pics now and then do another post with a real keyboard
25221
25222
25223
25224
25225

alexM
07-30-2020, 10:28 AM
Okay the explanation of the above. First picture is the gussets I made from 0.032" 4130 that I ordered from Aircraft Spruce. I didn't do very careful math and ended up making 16 when I needed 8, so I'm giving the other set to Eric (reference his barn find thread here in the builders section).

In the second picture you can see one of rudder pedal sections after the welding was complete. I had intended to completely disassemble the pedals to avoid getting those plastic bushings hot and blew it. Later on when operated the pedals I found increased friction and thought that was the problem. Well it wasn't, and a lot of you already know what happened: The tube at the base of the T isn't straight after you weld on the gussets.

I read through a thread on rudder pedal friction and found where people fixated on grinding out the weld bead that comes through the inside of the tubes. I was hung up on that too at first. I also didn't see how you could possibly sand enough material off the outside of the torque tube and inside of the T, while also sanding the minimum possible from the plastic bushings.

Well you can't. When you slide the T onto the torque tube and get it slipped onto the inner plastic bushing you will note that the other end of the T and the torque tube are not concentric. In my case it was not necessarily "riding hard" against the torque tube but it was touching. Even a zero thickness plastic bushing wouldn't provide smooth operation.

The issue is that you have two plastic bushings which need to be coaxial but are not, so without spherical bearings there would never be a way to get them to run smooth. No wonder so many people have issues getting their rudder pedals to operate smoothly. I considered chucking the whole thing and making my own design, but decided to stay with it if I could.

Using the straightest piece of steel I own (a set of 12" mitutoyo calipers) I verified that the torque tube was pin straight, and then checked the T. One of those forehead slapper moments where it is obvious what happened. The base of the T had curved due to the welding and they would need to be straightened. What you're seeing in the picture is a fixture I made to accomplish the task. I knew it was going to take some force so I used an 8' 2x6 and some plastic blocks (a motorcycle part I designed and happened to have some extras). I placed them so that they would restrain the sections of the T that I wanted to hold still. A 3' section of galvanized pipe with some strategically placed silicone "rescue tape" brought the OD of the pipe to perfectly match the inside of the T and provide leverage. With the T clamped in place I had my youngest son hold the far end of the 2x6 while I worked the galvanized pipe. I started gently and worked my way up until I was able to get the T within about 0.010-0.015" of straight. Of course the second one went much faster. No need to change anything on my alignment fixture for the second pedal because they are identical at this stage.

I test fit them on the torque tube with both plastic bushings in place. Without having even wiped off the sanding debris or using any form of lubricant they operate very well.

The next pictures were from just yesterday. My fuselage is at the airport, tucked in behind my Citabria so I dragged it out in the open and got to work with a 2" sanding wheel on my electric die grinder to knock the welds down where the rudder pedal bracket holes were filled. That went well and I managed to get it done without nicking a tube with the non working side of the sanding wheel. Thankfully the bottom side of the welds wasn't too thick so the clean up from down under was mostly getting rid of the roasted powder coating and getting it ready for primer and paint.

Next I cleaned up the hole for the elevator push pull tube bushing. It still had hysol in it from where the PO removed the bushing (must have destroyed it getting it out too, I imagine). Heat gun and a little love and it was 90% out. Dremel tool with a flapper wheel and it was done. Test fit is perfect. My project arrived with the elevator push-pull tube in the tail cone but zip tied with pool noodles to keep it from banging around. With the new bushing dry fit in place I was able to do a temporary install of the push pull tube and check for friction at the controls. It is operating nicely. I know it's not much but I finally felt like I got something moved forward.

When I get out there later today I will use my die grinder and scotch brite wheels to remove the white epoxy primer applied by the PO where he removed loose powder coating. The steel has been protected by it, now it's time to get to bare metal and make it all red again.
25226
This pic was taken while the welding was being done on my tail wheel reinforcement. I forgot to remove the center console piece but we rolled the plane super careful so it didn't really bang around.
25227
This pic taken at the end of the day yesterday. Hoping I can keep up some forward momentum.

Side trip.
Back when I first had some money to buy a plane with I wanted to get a kit. Then I realized that it could be 2-3 years without flying. I ended up buying my Citabria and had instant access to a fun airplane. Now that I have this plane to build I'm motivated, but some days I get to the airport and decide "aw, screw it" and get in the plane that flies NOW. I need to strike a balance.

In the meantime, I'm flying the crap out of the Citabria. I do some informal STOL practice and recently took my youngest son mountain flying. Shown here at Tieton which is a state owned runway here in WA
25228

Jerrytex
07-30-2020, 12:16 PM
Good progress.

The gussets turned out good. I too went through the "bananna" T-Torque tubes. I used a vise and some pipe to get it as close to straight as I could, and then alot of sanding, and fitting to make them smooth. The crazy part is I was missing that part of the rudder pedal assemly and had to fabricate the longer "T" torque tubes. I was careful when I welded it to keep the heat bending to a minumum and it still happened. I think it's just the nature of the beast when welding on tubing.

25229

alexM
07-31-2020, 04:02 PM
I would agree that it would be very difficult to avoid this exact banana when creating this part, especially with asymmetrical gussets. And I know that some experienced welders use strategically placed applications of heat or short welds to make things flat (or intentionally domed). I will say I'm impressed with the strength of 4130 tube. I was worried about it bending too easily or putting a kink in it. It was amazing how much it flexed before the shape changed at all. No wonder it makes such a fantastic material for bicycle and airplane frames.

Today I flew down to TDO to meet Eric and see his barn find Kitfox 5. He's doing a great job of rolling back the areas of relaxed workmanship standards and what he is down to looks quite serviceable. I'm going to have to get some momentum up if I'm going to get mine built anywhere near his deadline.

To that end I'm planning on sanding off the hand applied white primer and then applying my primer, paint and clear coat this weekend. I just researched to see how much time I needed to allow between coats. I know from the primers and paints I spec as part of my job you have to wait a certain time for each coat to dry, but you also have to get the next coat on before it completely cures - otherwise you have to treat it like existing paint and sand it.

There are also paints that have another time line, where if you do let it go past that initial cure time then you have to let it go for a few days or it will soften the layer under it and possibly bubble up. Good times.

Well I'm glad I read up from the manufacturer because I was lead to believe I have mere hours once I mix the two part epoxy. Manufacturer says 4 days. That would of course be shortened dramatically in the (what locals call) hot weather we're having now. Before I use the primer I'll go over everything with wire brush and detail sander to lessen the need to fill scratches from the sander and scotchbrite, then wipe/flash everything with acetone or denatured alcohol.

alexM
08-01-2020, 10:45 AM
I put some more time on the project last night (I have to keep up with Eric now). I used my detail sander to prep the surfaces for primer. While I had it out and was making dust I removed all traces of powder coating on the metal tubes both inside and outside where the plastic bushings live. I worked carefully and with good lighting to just barely break through the last molecules of powder coating. That kept the surfaces round and didn't remove any steel.

I test fit the parts dry and was shocked how freely my rudder pedals work now. They literally flop around but aren't the slightest bit sloppy.

Today is much cooler than the past week and it's not windy, so I'm going to get some primer applied.

Eric Page
08-01-2020, 01:09 PM
Nice! Can you tell me more about that detail sander? It sounds like something I need to invest in.

alexM
08-01-2020, 07:04 PM
A detail sander is just one of those high rpm oscillating head devices that has a head the shape of the rotor in a Wankel engine. The angles are acute so you can get all the way into 90 degree corners.
The originals were the German company Fein and were priced accordingly. Mine was a random Christmas gift from years ago and is a Harbor Freight $40 knock off. I guess "multi tool" is the other name because you can run various metal cutting blades, and is what I normally use it for. It has helped up much better than I have come to expect from Harbor Freight but wear ear plugs..

It should be noted that it's not a random orbit sander but you can achieve a random-like finish if you make light passes and keep it moving consistently.

I'm also getting quite a bit of use out of my Dremel tool. I recall a Bryan Bowen video where he had one basically catch on fire and had to buy a new one. I'm now using mine for 20 minutes at a time and I'm starting to realize that catching on fire is a distinct possibility. It gets pretty hot when you're using it "for real" instead of the 30-60 seconds of use per year it normally sees.

The tools I'm really glad I bought are the two Milwaukee M12 straight and 90 degree grinders. The 90 lives with a 2" Roloc style mandrel that I swap scotch brite and sander discs on. The straight shaft motor has been used to cut 4130 up to 1/8" and most recently has been running an arbor with skinny but long sanding drums.

If the Dremel tool burns up I'll just chuck those Dremel accessories on the straight shaft Milwaukee.

Today I ended up using it all.
25259
It got all organized and then grabbed my can of 2 part epoxy primer. Followed the directions on the can, shaking for two minutes, whacking the thing on the bottom and shaking for two more minutes. I noted that the can said the pot life was only two days, in conflict with the online instructions.

I had already wiped the parts down with acetone and a lint free towel, so I got to spraying. I was quite puzzled when it came out clear. I know sometimes spray paint can start out clear but I put a pretty good layer on and it still had no color.

Huh. Maybe this primer is clear. I kept spraying but then realized bought gray primer so it should probably be gray. Oh look, I mixed up the two part clear coat that goes on after the red. I guess I know what I'll be doing this weekend after all.

An acetone soaked rag removed all traces of the clear. I wasn't sure that was the case yet but discovered a few hours later that acetone will in fact remove even the incredibly durable epoxy primer on a few swipes.

Once the correct spray can was catalysed I sprayed all the parts. The Germans sure know how to make a good rattle can. It lays on nicely. The only flaws were where I didn't feather the powder coating down smoothly enough.
25260
You know how it is when you hear that voice in your head that says "don't touch it"? Right. I waited 45 minutes and attempted to feather it in with some 400 paper and light pressure. Made a complete mess of the uncured primer.

Thats when I learned that acetone took it right off, and I was able to pretend it never happened. The second time I sprayed, I skipped the lint free rag. Won't be making that mistake again, but at least this time I didn't try to fix it.

Instead I set the parts aside to cure, gathered my things and headed to the airport.

There i wheeled the fuselage outside, used the detail sander to reduce scratches and feather the powder coating back a ways, acetone rag and lint free - starting to get the hang of this.
25261
I used strategically placed rags to protect adjacent structure, flight controls, etc then shook the can again for good luck. I started on the bare steel up front and was happy with the way that turned out.
25262
Then I addressed the areas the PO applied two part epoxy. It's good primer so I really didn't need to remove it, I just needed to smooth out out. Detail sander to the rescue. Acetone wipe, lint free, spray

Working my way to the back of the fuselage, I propped up the tail and removed the rear clamp for the tail wheel. Then I proceeded to use every device I brought with me to clean up the welds, the bare metal, feather the powder coating, etc.

I thought I found a crack and was busy digging at it with various small Dremel bits when my hangar neighbor came by. I had just come to the conclusion I was digging at a glob of powder coating when it came out. He welds and inspected it all. It was all good, so I finished the clean up and sprayed out the last of it.
25263
Next up, things I should probably already know about spraying red.

Eric Page
08-01-2020, 07:55 PM
A detail sander is just one of those high rpm oscillating head devices that has a head the shape of the rotor in a Wankel engine. The angles are acute so you can get all the way into 90 degree corners.
Ah, OK. I know the tool you're talking about. I've got one of those oscillating cutters; I'll have to see if anyone makes sanding heads for it. Thanks, and nice work today!

alexM
08-02-2020, 11:58 AM
I was tempted to spray the red last night but then remembered a step mentioned in the manual directing builders to fill moisture traps with structural adhesive. The crevices on the insides of the gussets definitely count as such.

I probably should have done the Hysol before primer but this isn't about strength as much as it's about gap filling. So I apply the expression I often use in my day job: "it doesn't hold the wing on". Besides, fresh primer on good metal isn't a terrible place to start.

So I eye balled the ratio and mixed up my first batch of Hysol. After mixing thoroughly I put it in a sandwich bag and nipped the corner off, cake decorator style. That allowed me to lay a bead in those tight areas with making a mess.

I used the end of a pen to make a fillet, then came back with my finger and some denatured alcohol to clean up any excess. I didn't hate how it came out.

I'm curious what scales you folks use to weigh Hysol?

25286

I let that cure overnight, then this morning I was up early trying to get some paint on without disturbing domestic tranquility. I flashed all surfaces with lint free alcohol wipe and coreographed how I would apply the red without getting any finger prints in my paint.

I ended up using the same cheater pipe I used to un-banana the inboard rudder pedal tubes. I shot the tight spots by hand and then slid each T onto the pipe. Set on a pair of saw horses I could then get every where else without touching anything.
25287
The red went on perfect. Not a run or flaw of any kind. I let that dry for maybe 30 minutes then repeated the process with the clear.

I was worried about having rushed the job and was concerned that it might fish eye or worse. What to do other than put my stuff in the car and head to the airport and keep going before I knew, right?

The red went on absolutely amazing. This is going to sound funny but I'm color blind. Oddly, I may not be able to tell you what color something is, but I can detect the slightest mismatch. In a different lifetime I used to do gelcoat repairs on damaged canoes and kayaks. Matching the color on a surface which has weathered can be difficult but once I knew the color I could make the damage invisible.

I can see red just fine, and was super stoked to see the only way to tell where I had painted was because it was flat instead of gloss.
25288
To keep from rushing the job I walked down to the airport restaurant with my son where we had breakfast. I gave the clear coat a good shake and covered the flat red. That work is now tucked into my hangar to gas off, while I returned home.

Inspecting the rudder pedals I am quite happy with them. No fish eye and no house flies mating in the middle of my wet paint.
25289

Pretty happy to be at this point. I feel like I can now make forward progress. I'm going to let the red and clear cure the rest of the day, then I'll clean everything well, do another dry fit of the plastic bushings, then lube it up and rivet the assemblies back together.

jrevens
08-02-2020, 05:58 PM
Alex,

FWIW, I mixed it by volume. It was very easy to do small amounts using measuring spoons & popsicle sticks, then mixing in dixie cups.

alexM
08-03-2020, 08:05 AM
Thanks John. It does appear suspiciously like the cans are the same size and have equal amounts of goo inside. I've been eye balling two part adhesives since I was a kid flying model airplanes. For stuff like gap filling I imagine Hysol is tolerant but to be thorough and safe I'd like to get an electronic scale. I also want one to weigh every component that goes on the plane (the old saying, "sweat the ounces and the pounds take care of themselves" applies), but it will obviously be a different scale.

The paint was fully cured last night so I went through the whole clean, test fit, lubricate, assemble, cleco, rivet process. When it came time to fit the rudder pedals back on I got to learn where the thin washers that fell out when I disassembled everything came from. My calipers came in handy for sure.

I do not understand why the manual says to torque the pedal pivot bolts to 20-25 inch pounds, because they bind up tight when you do that. This isn't like the ball joints or purposely designed bushings that pivot, it is straight up clamping force. I got my 1-3 threads through the self locking nut with free pivoting action and called it good.

25298
I'm starting a new tail wheel student in my Citabria tonight so I'm planning on heading over a bit early and seeing how the rudder pedals into the fuselage.

alexM
08-03-2020, 11:23 PM
Pedal assemblies fit to the fuselage with the forward floor board in place. Thankfully the original builder did a beautiful job on the wood floor panels.
Since the original center rudder pedal bracket was correctly made I mounted my new bracket, then squared up and clamped both outboard brackets.
I chose not to drill the outboard holes tonight, but just clamped them in place and made sure everything was square.
I also mounted the inboard master cylinder brackets, which also had correct hole locations drilled by the original owner.
I'm electing to wait for another check and some better light before I drill. Maybe tomorrow.
25301
25302

alexM
08-04-2020, 09:47 PM
The short version is that my pedals are in, and they operate very freely.

25306
I brought my Cleveland master cylinders to do a dry run. I loosely fit a master cylinder before realizing it was backwards. Like I said, dry run.

Knowing my next several steps I wanted to put my hands on those parts and see how they fit. You can see I got out the rest of the floor boards.

Based on my reading on this forum I'm using a type of Tinnerman nut on the fuselage tabs to retain the floor boards.
On one of my Aircraft Spruce binges I ordered countersunk washers and screws and had to make some guesses. I like the way it turned out.
25307
The wood looks splotchy in this pic but much better in real life. The original builder did a nice job of fitting, sanding and varnishing the wood parts.

Eric Page
08-07-2020, 10:21 PM
Wow, you've been making great progress while I wasn't looking, Alex. I better get back to work!

BTW, don't toss that rudder torque tube jig you built. I have a feeling I'm going to need that... :)

alexM
08-08-2020, 06:17 PM
Well how about a little un-progress then?

Once the rudder bracket holes were drilled the next step is to remove it all and ream, debur, touch up the holes, etc.

For the sake of being thorough I decided to clean up the floor mounting tabs, which of course exposed bare steel. There were also a few places where I had run out of red or could have used a heavier coat. Stuck in a cycle where I would have to buy another can two part primer to touch up the steel plus another red and clear, I decided to get my money's worth out of the primer.

I stripped out everything in the forward cabin and I sanded the tubes of the vertical fin until they were smooth.

With the gear off I had my son help me rotate the fuselage to various angles so I could get all the spots, including a couple places of exposed steel with light surface rust.

Wouldn't you know it, I ran out of red again! I put the fuselage away and drove to the paint shop Friday. I'm sure I need way less than half a can, but with the 24hr turn around + no weekend hours, this time I ordered two cans.

I told the counter guy that it seemed like the primer and clear go a lot farther than the color coat and he confirmed it's true.
25322
So I'm dead in the water until Monday afternoon. Gives me time to go back through the manual and people's threads here.

bbs428
08-09-2020, 12:08 AM
"On one of my Aircraft Spruce binges I ordered countersunk washers and screws and had to make some guesses. I like the way it turned out."

They did come out nice.

I understand all to much about un-progress! ;)

Looking good.

alexM
08-14-2020, 05:30 PM
Over a few late afternoons last week I was finally able to get the red color coat and the clear sprayed, and gave it 48 hours to cure in a warm hangar.
Today was my 9/80 day off, which I selfishly reserve for my own interests.
I started the day by flying to W10, Whidbey island air park in my Citabria for the best coffee and breakfast sandwich anywhere on earth.
Then I came back and got to work on the kitfox.
25370
First image is from last week with the last of the spraying done. You can see I removed everything except the flaperon mixer and the tail wheel, mostly because I got tired of cleaning up overspray
So today was a day to start putting the flight controls back in. My hangar neighbor assisted me getting the main gear back on (non aerospace hardware for now) so I can roll it around, and of course sit in it to make airplane noises.
Previously the outer bearings in the rudder pedals would spin freely but not if torqued to 30 inch pounds by the book.
So before installing them I used my drill press to remove just enough material for a slip fit when torqued. Cleaned everything up and lubed everything with LPS. I'm quite happy with the way they move when installed now.
25371
I only had time to get the control column (stick assemblies) in with finger tight hardware before I had to run home and watch grand kids for a while.

efwd
08-14-2020, 07:22 PM
I was so looking forward to the Coffee there at Whidbey Island. My best friend had a house just about a mile from that little strip and I had big plans to fly there to visit. I did scope out the location and had breakfast there when I was visiting him before my plane was finished. Now I have little reason to fly that far north. Neat place.

alexM
08-16-2020, 12:12 PM
This isn't going to look like I made much progress, but this was several hours of work.
25383
Refitting the control column I realized that when I installed everything for practice I didn't torque the plastic (glass filled nylon it seems) pivot block. So I did it by the book and of course it was clamped up tight.
I messed around for a while, carefully opening up the diameter but still not getting it free.

Finally, with the block assembled and torqued I measured the ID with my calipers and the tube, to discover that it was large enough in the fore-aft direction but about 0.020" shy in the vertical direction. That explained everything so I continued to work on removing just enough material to have a round hole.

Then it was on to the push pull tubes for aileron, flaps and elevator and eventually on to the floor boards.

Hopefully I'll get more time on it today. The goal is to bring the fuselage and tail feathers home so I can dedicate more time on it

alexM
08-19-2020, 05:43 PM
It has been a pretty busy week so not much time to devote to the build. I did get my elevator push-pull thrust bearing bonded in place yesterday, and today I refit the push-pull tube and bell crank. Nothing torqued permanently, just another dry run. The controls still seem to work smoothly.

I also spent some time fitting the floor boards with the countersunk washers and screws. The left rear board needed a bit of trimming to lay flush at the top edge. I could have used a longer screw and put some preload on the board but it seemed better to just make it fit properly. The first time I have to mix up some epoxy varnish I'll touch up the exposed edge I created.

alexM
08-20-2020, 08:01 PM
I was so looking forward to the Coffee there at Whidbey Island. My best friend had a house just about a mile from that little strip and I had big plans to fly there to visit. I did scope out the location and had breakfast there when I was visiting him before my plane was finished. Now I have little reason to fly that far north. Neat place.


https://youtu.be/3dxdNVfZ-3E
A fairly short video of my trip to W10. It's a bit rough because I'm using new video editing software but it was a good day of flying.

Eric Page
08-20-2020, 09:06 PM
Neat video, Alex. I haven't flown over the Narrows cliff in many years. I would guess the last time was probably practicing the old NDB approach from the Graye NDB, and that was sometime in the mid-90s. Can't wait to fly in there again!

jmodguy
08-30-2020, 06:31 PM
One other thing you may want to check that I missed is the rudder horn length. My 5 has pretty short horns and I had to put some Teflon on the fuse under the cable to keep them from rubbing.

alexM
08-31-2020, 06:56 PM
Look what followed me home tonight. Where most builders seem to start with building a shed (and I've still got to do that), my must-do project was getting a motorcycle engine put back together, installed, running and any issues complete before I could move both bikes to my hangar and bring my fuselage home.
25505
Well we can check that box off. The white and black bike is a triumph tiger 1050 that I rode for 100k miles and gave to one of my sons. He rode it for about six months and it swallowed a valve. I was able to source a fresh cylinder head but it was a ton of work.
25506
The blue bike is my Moto Guzzi that is loaded and ready for WABDR (Washington backroad discovery route), 591 miles of dirt. Departing on 9/14.
I haven't rearranged the garage for access yet but I plan on getting the fuselage as close to cover ready as I can while my Citabria is getting it's annual. Then I'll hall the fuselage back and build wings

Shadowrider
08-31-2020, 08:13 PM
Wow! That’s some serious miles.

efwd
08-31-2020, 08:20 PM
AlexM. PM me if your interested in a virtually new Triumph Tiger 1050 low, seat. I had a 2009 or 2010 Tiger 1050. You can have it for the box and shipping cost if you think you could use it.

Jerrytex
09-01-2020, 08:44 AM
Did the original builder get to making the flap and adj. rudder pedal detents that mount to the underside of the console? If not, I suggest that you buy the premade the brackets from KF. I just went through this and it takes a long time! Like 2 days worth of work to get them right. I didn't have the templates so I was old school using a protractor and dividers. Was rewarding in the end because they turned out nice, but it costs a lot of time.

25514255152551625517

alexM
09-01-2020, 09:28 AM
The original builder did make the flaperon detent brackets. They're installed and work perfectly. I definitely like the way the rudder pedals can adjust so quickly with the option but I have elected not to add them to my plane for two reasons: They add weight and the center tunnel apparently gets pretty crowded with all the stuff that has to go through there. My plane will be flown pretty much 100% by me, with some flying duties passed off to people roughly my size (through the miracle of DNA). They are adjustable through the links if needed so it's not the end of the world.
I do see that making those brackets by hand would take some time. I would order the prefab brackets for sure. If they weren't available, then being that most of my career has been in CAD/CAM I would draw those up and send the files to a friend of mine to cut out and mail them to me.

And yes, even a few ounces has to "buy its way" onto this plane. No carpet, no auto pilot, the lightest possible ELT, my COM radio will have a built in intercom, no 29" (or larger) tires - I'll stick with the 8.50 Dessers thank you. Right now I'm casting a jaundiced eye at my not-Grove-but-they-sure-look-like-them landing gear. Having removed them from the fuselage a couple of times I'm shocked how much they weigh with the wheels and brakes installed. I'm a big fan of the simple once piece design but if cabane gear is lighter it might push me that direction.

I will Alodine my spars and inserts but I will not be priming them. Oratex all the way. I'm considering the flat plate STI style wing tips to ditch a few more pounds.

alexM
09-01-2020, 09:37 AM
AlexM. PM me if your interested in a virtually new Triumph Tiger 1050 low, seat. I had a 2009 or 2010 Tiger 1050. You can have it for the box and shipping cost if you think you could use it.

I appreciate the kind offer. Right now I can't get that bike out of my hangar quick enough so I can concentrate on airplanes. It has a Rich's custom seat on it which is the first thing I do to any motorcycle. It was a bit tall for my son so as part of the refresh I installed lowering links and dropped the fork tubes. Hopefully he gets some more miles out of the bike. It was super reliable right up to the valve breaking. Even then it was an exhaust valve that broke and the piece went right out the pipe, and it made it home under its own power.

Jerrytex
09-01-2020, 11:32 AM
"I will Alodine my spars and inserts but I will not be priming them."



Curious to know how to do this. I was planing on epoxy but alodining might be the way to go. How do you do the inside of the spars?

alexM
09-01-2020, 01:56 PM
I was struggling with that until I spoke to an IA friend of mine the other day. He builds a lot of ultralight/light sport planes. He said "big chunk of PVC pipe, cap on both ends and shake.

Duh. Wish I thought of that. To get the timing right, thorough rinse etc I will have my son help me. Do the etch and rinse on all the pieces, then rinse out the PVC really well, then move to Alodine - and dare I say "rinse, repeat".

Before that idea came along I was going to modify the crate that my spars are in with a big plastic sheet and make a tub out of it. The PVC will produce a more uniform product.

If you're going to do the outside by hand dipping then you could use the tennis ball trick just like you'd have to do with primer for the inside.

Dave S
09-01-2020, 02:12 PM
for doing the inside alone - Tennis ball in one end - liquid of choice poured in - tennis ball in the other end - slosh - empty - repeat as necessary

TBs are the perfect size to plug and seal the end of the spar tube

Sealing up the ends of the tube minimizes

Jerrytex
09-01-2020, 02:59 PM
I like the tennis ball trick.

I'll have to figure out something else on the wings since they are quickbuild. Can't really dunk the spars with the ribs on. Maybe alodine on the inside and epoxy on the outside.

efwd
09-01-2020, 04:18 PM
Have something to catch the spillage. Tennis ball fur will allow some to leak past as it becomes saturated. Thankfully I covered my epoxy floor with plastic.

alexM
09-01-2020, 09:12 PM
In order to feel like I did anything I decided to leap ahead by assembling the tail surfaces. I figure a dry run to see how things actually go together, put my eyes and hands on the hardware and check for interferences as far ahead as possible is a good thing.

I got the elevator and horizontal stabilizer roughly in place and realized the struts for the horizontal stab were at the airport. I made the short trip over to gather those and a few other things like the shrouds for the center console and the trim around the doors. I have two sets of tail struts including one original round bar style and the aero tubing type too. I couldn't help but noticing (just like the wing lift struts) that the aero type are much heavier.
So when I got home I weighed both sets.
25521
25522
That's 2 lbs 10 oz vs 1 lb 3.2 oz for the pair of them. Less than half as much. Can anyone convince me that the aero struts provide any increase in cruise speed, improved handling, increased safety or any other reason besides "they look better"?

For my dry run I installed the tube type and everything went pretty much together. Aligning all the hinges between the stab and elevator took some careful messing around to get all the hardware in place. There was a post recently regarding two tabs in the very aft end of the opening for the horizontal stabilizer, warning that the tabs could interfere with the operation of the elevator/stab during trim operations. I was watching for that today and planned on addressing it, but I have no interference with these tabs over for any combination of stab trim/elevator position by at least 1/4".

I plan on leaping all the way forward to the rigging chapters just so I can see how it goes and make a dry run to, again, check for interference, make sure the hardware is present and understand everything.

I loose fit the stab trim jack screw but need to crawl under there and do some measuring for the washers.
25523
Speaking of washers, I then moved to the front of the plane where I did a more complete job of installing the brake master cylinders than I did last time. I called it for the night when I realized it was time to get out the calipers and note pad to plan my washer stack up to shim everything in alignment. I'm probably going to use the super glue trick, which I thought was cheating when I first read it but now see that it will save much tedium.
25524
The pieces for the center console are just set in place. Not only did I want to see how they looked but because I'm not exactly long on extra space in these digs. I'd give a kidney for a 3 car garage right now. The original builder and I must be on some common wavelength because my plan to use the countersunk washers is coming together nicely. He had already dimpled these pieces where they are common to the inner floor board attach screws. I'm planning on more of these, along with dimpled washers and countersunk screws to hold the center console in place:
25526
By the way the pair of console pieces weigh 10 ounces. After I get them installed I will mark and trim the upper edge parallel to wherever the center console is when it is clamped down. I'll need to match drill those pieces to the center console piece and install that hardware.
I recall when I first looked at this design I wondered why the sidewalls don't tuck under the console top. I think I get it now. Way easier access later on.

And, straight crazy talk here, I'm planning on using these instead of washers and nuts for the underside of the rudder pedal bracket hardware:
25529
These are Clickbond floating nutplates which are bonded on with structural adhesive. These will enable me to remove the rudder pedal assemblies after the plane is built, like it was no big deal. Being floaters they allow the shear loading to be taken up by the hole in the structure, and the axial load is all in compression and doesn't depend on the structural adhesive for anything but fastener torque, which is pretty low here.
The rubber thing in the middle of each one serves as a tool to align the fastener with the hole in the part, serve as the clamping force, and to keep the adhesive out of the way. When the cure is complete you pull the thing the rest of the way through and throw it away.

bbs428
09-02-2020, 06:37 AM
I alodined my spars as well. I had no tennis balls or pvc caps so I just duct-taped some plastic over the ends and sloshed the solution around holding the wing over my head. Flipped it around a few times as well. Was a good workout! Lol. Nice, light weight coating. Wiped the alodine over the outside of the spar with a rag. Not as good a result as totally immersing the part but acceptable.

Clickbond floating nutplates are the bomb. Could have used this nugget of info early on. I used riveted floating nutplates from Spruce. Worked well.

Bummer the tubing is heavier but the aerodynamic drag will be a lot lower. Go with Beringer wheels, brakes and an NR prop and you'll more than offset the weight. ;)

jiott
09-02-2020, 09:49 AM
I put plastic fairings (from Quad City Challenger) over my horizontal struts and gained at least one, maybe 2 mph in cruise. I think the plastic slip-on fairings are much lighter and much cheaper than the all metal struts.

alexM
09-02-2020, 10:14 AM
Thank you. I guess 2mph goes on the balance sheet along with the 1 lb 7 oz it would cost me to install them. For sure if my plane ends up needing weight in the tail to balance I would rather install a functional part instead of a chunk of lead.

alexM
09-03-2020, 09:52 PM
Boy it's an amazing difference when the plane is right there in your garage and your flyable plane is down for annual. Last night I measured the horizontal stabilizer relative to the vertical fin and adjusted the struts per the manual. Got it perfect on my second try. The tail structure is actually quite rigid when everything is in place.

Next I moved to the front of the plane and removed the rudder pedal assemblies, master cylinders and floor boards so I could install the Clickbond floating nutplates. I got down to bare metal per the manufacturer directions and went through the mental process of how it was all going to go but I packed it in for the night before mixing any adhesive. I knew the metal wasn't perfectly free of primer and wanted to get a fresh look before adding stress.

I wanted to test mount the rudder but I could see that was going to take some patience so I put tools away and cleaned up.

When I was done with work today I slipped out into the garage and got to work. I spent about an hour with my Dremel tool making sure the metal was bare. I was thinking of Bryan Bowen's video where his Dremel caught fire and I was honestly worried that mine was about to do the same. When everything was bare and perfect I cleaned everything with denatured alcohol. I mixed the adhesive and then took one more single pass wipe on all the surfaces to be bonded, then got to work gluing the nutplates in the holes. It went pretty smoothly with the rubbery one-use tool holding them centered and tightly in place. I had time to orient them squarely from the underside and noted that there was squeeze out everwhere but no mess. What are the chances?
25538
25539
You can see where I'll have to come back with the epoxy primer and touch up the bare metal. I had a comment on facebook about them debonding in service at an airline. The rudder pedals will undoubtedly go in and out of the plane a number of times before I cover them up so I can always change my mind and go to riveted ones.
25540
Another shot of the floating nutplates, washers and machine screws I'm using for floor board attachment. I owe a thank you to whoever suggested Tinnerman nuts in someone else's build thread. This is just a slightly overboard version of the same idea.

Once the adhesive was curing I moved to the back of the plane and set about installing and adjusting the rudder. One challenge I'll have is that my rudder is already built, and the ribs that were in the vertical fin were removed (and damaged) by the previous owner.
In order for me to get the ribs in the rudder and vertical fin to match with any continuity I will need to have the rudder mounted while I fit the ribs in the fin.
25541
Funny story here. I remember the first time I looked over the rudder I was kind of crabby at how big the access holes were for the hinge hardware. Holy smokes, that is going to take some patience and some practice picking AN3-7A bolts up off the floor when there's covering on. I'm already picturing a home made tool that will make the job easier.

Anyway the other challenge is that I can't produce the dimensions called for in the book because the fairing is already bonded onto the rudder and my best guess is that it's about 0.2" from where book says. I'm going to dry fit the fiberglass piece for the vertical fin and see what it takes to get a uniform gap.

I'm pretty sure I want to go with a COM antenna in the vertical fin, my GPS bump under the turtle deck like I've seen on this forum and my ELT inside the tailcone. My transponder antenna will be the only penetration, which will be on the bottom in the factory location. Right now my plan is LED strobe/position lights on the wingtips with white to the rear, and no wires or bulbs headed to the tail (except the stab trim actuator of course).

alexM
09-08-2020, 11:45 PM
A couple of nights ago I diagrammed out the stacks of washers needed to center my master cylinders, then cleaned the washers with acetone and tiny drops of super glue to make thick stacks. It was a pretty easy way to get them all in place. I touched up the bare metal at the edges of my Clickbond fasteners with two part primer and decided to skip the color coat touch up until another day.

Last night I had cut the nylon tubes for the rudder cables guides and finished the ends so they were all nice and smooth. It took quite a while because I don't know what the right tool for cutting the nylon tubing is. I didn't want to cut it with any type of shears because I thought it would crush the tube flat. I tried a straight cut hacksaw type edge on a multi-tool (real slow going, admittedly with a tired blade) and also a small cut off wheel on my Dremel. That was barely any faster and the material tended to melt back together after you cut it. It's some damn tough material. I stuck it out and got the parts made, and yes I still need to make a couple more.

25568
I didn't take a picture, but this evening I spent time clearing the old adhesive out of the steel portions of the fuselage where the nylon tubes go. I chased a few of them out by just using a 5/16" drill bit chucked up in a pin vise, but as I got closer to the tail they got harder and the drill bit would get stuck. So I grabbed my Dremel and a small diamond grit tool a lot smaller than 5/16 and worked away with a mirror, a light and frequent checks with a scrap of tube until they would all barely slide through.

I did not bond them tonight. I'm wising up and keeping a list of things that need Hysol on them, because it seems like you always use what you mix and then later think of somewhere you could have used an extra glob.

I made a trip to the hangar today to get some more of the pieces from the various tubs and boxes my project came in. On the short list were the aluminum lids that go on the compartments under the seat and the baggage compartment sack.
25569
25570
I'm super glad I brought home the baggage sack and test fit it because it allowed me to see a conflict between my seat attach hardware where it wraps around the horizontal tubes and the very forward edge of the baggage sack where it likewise wraps around the same tube. Not a big deal and the solution is obviously some tailoring of the baggage sack to allow for the seat clamps.
25567
I now know exactly which item in my pile of parts is the floor of the baggage compartment. I remember originally thinking it was a floor board for the main cabin but that ship has sailed and the big piece didn't go along. Next trip to the hangar I guess and then I'll get to figure out how it is mounted.

My head is churning forward to the step where I drill and attach the thin aluminum sides of the center console to the top piece. In fitting the floor boards I referred to the manual and found that the sidewalls don't sit on top of the floor (the way they show in image showing the seat tray covers), they tuck under the floor boards. I had been fooled by the work of the original builder who countersunk the holes on those holes common to the floor boards. I thought it looked okay that way, and certainly easiest if you need to mess with something in the center console. But they sure look more finished with them tucked under the floor boards.
25571
I need to trim the very back corner of the thin aluminum sides where it is binding up under pressure of the floor board and seat tube, causing it to bow outward.

I also got my rudder cables and seat belts from the hangar. The holes for the shoulder belt attach points are not drilled, so I know there's more primer touch up in my near future.

DesertFox4
09-09-2020, 10:02 AM
Alex Just wanted to say I’m enjoying your build thread. You’re making good progress. Thanks for taking the time to share.👍
It’s all going to be worth it on first flight.

alexM
09-26-2020, 08:44 AM
I took a little bit of time off of the build (and work) for a motorcycle trip to SW Utah. It was supposed to be a ride on the Washington Backroad Discovery Route (WABDR), 541 miles of dirt from the Bridge of the Gods to the Canadian border. But with all the fires part of the route was charred and more parts had the roads blocked off. So we changed the plan to go somewhere that wasn't burning, and that was Moab and there abouts. In all a bit over 2600 miles of riding and some spectacular scenery in Canyonlands, Arches and then even more south to Valley of the Gods.

Thanks to Desertfox for the kind words. I'm back on the build and made some progress, but I'm a little light on build pics so you'll have to endure some images from my trip.
25651
25652

It has taken me a week to recover from the trip and get back to my day job and another night of staring at the parts wishing they would put themselves together. When that didn't happen I did some minor fitting of the center console side panels where they interfered with the seat/floor boards at the rear corner and got all that to lay nicely together.
The next step was one I had been avoiding because it involved structural adhesive, rivets and getting everything to line up before the Hysol kicked off. In short, the original Kitfox 5 instructions have you drill several holes and use zip ties to hold the seat pan to the fuselage tubes. I'm not sure when the transition took place but the current series 7 has tabs welded to the fuselage tubes and you back drill into the seat and install nut plates.
The original builder of my plane fabricated what can be described as stainless steel Adel clamps that he bonded to the fuselage tubes and riveted nut plates to. They had been removed by the previous builder and I found them all in a bag, including the nut plates. I liked the solution way better than zip ties and I'm at the stage where those stainless tabs had to be installed.

I got them all laid out and oriented so I wouldn't install any of them backwards. Then I masked off the tubes and removed the finish down to bare metal where the clamps would bond, and I wiped everything down well with denatured alcohol (twice). The trick was going to be getting them all slathered with EA 9460, oriented pretty close with Clecos, riveted and then installing the seat pan so all the holes would line up perfectly and be at the exact angle of the seat pan so it could cure correctly. Oh and of course clean up the squeeze out so my seat wasn't stuck for good.

As usual I mixed up twice as much Hysol as I would need, but this time I was ready to go with installing some of the nylon rudder cable guide tubes - assuming I had any working time left with the adhesive after the seat pan was exactly where I needed it.

It was going pretty well until I had about four of them installed and realized I was missing a nut plate. I was pretty sure I must have dropped it on my shop floor or set it somewhere I wouldn't lose it (leaning towards the latter) when I was on the opposite side of the fuselage. I looked for it briefly and decided that the clock was ticking so I needed to get the seven in place that I knew I had. If it got down to it I could remove the 8th clamp and wipe it clean, and just do that one when the nut plate surfaced.

Once the first 7 were in place I went back to my bench where I had the screws and countersunk washers and found the missing nut plate. Huge relief, and I had time still to install it. The seat pan went in, I wiggled everything for perfect alignment and installed the screws. Then I crawled under the plane to make sure that the tabs were laying flat against the seat and they were.

The adhesive was doing well so I installed the short nylon cable guides in the aft fuselage and called it a night.

Yesterday was my 9/80 day off. The weather was terrible and my Citabria is still down for annual, so I got more done on the Kitfox. I started by removing the seat pan to verify that it wasn't stuck from squeeze out (it wasn't) and then I was able to make slits in the baggage compartment material so it would slip over the tabs and velcro in place. I made the slits with a razor blade, verified that everything fit (it did) and then came back with a soldering iron to sear the edges of the slits I made.

Next I was looking at seat belts. My manual implies that all the holes are drilled for the seat belt mounts, but the tabs for my shoulder belts had no holes. Drilling them would be slightly tricky because the tabs are oriented very close to the fuselage tubes underneath. There is barely room for the washer and nut on the bottom side of those tabs, especially if you drill the hole just a little too far aft.

I used a center punch to mark the locations and started the hole at 3/16" and then I would come back with a 1/4" for final size. The 3/16" went fine but when I started with the 1/4" cobalt bit I heard that crack sound a snapped drill bit makes. I looked at it and it wasn't broken, but it sure made zero progress at making chips after that. I got the bit in good light and saw that the tiniest piece had broken off the cutting edge, so an $8 bit was junk after two revolutions. I made another trip to the hardware store and got a decent HSS bit this time which finished the job no problem. I should have known better than to hand drill with the cobalt bit. I deburred and reamed the holes and tested the installation of the seat belts.

Next up was making the slots where the seat belts come through the seat pan. The manual is a little vague on those, with the series 7 manual having just a bit more detail on the outer slots (and zero on the center slot). I started to do the layout on the inner surface but then saw how close the slots were to the fuselage tubes. I changed over to laying them out on the outer surface to make sure I was missing the tubes, because it's not by much.

Once I was sure they would miss the tubes I pulled the seat pan out of the plane and did the layout again to cross check that they would be symmetrical. Once they matched I grabbed my Milwaukee 12v cut off wheel and cut the slots. I did that work outside in the wind so as not to get fiberglass dust all over my garage. I recognized the smell of Hydrex resin immediately from my days in the kayak industry. It's good stuff for hand layup fiberglass. Once the cutting was done I washed my dust covered arms and hands with cold water - another thing from my kayak days. If you use warm water your pores will open up and the fiberglass dust will embed in your skin, giving you a major itchy rash.

I knew the slots would be too thin to pass the seat belts through so I went at it with my Dremel tool for a while and then came back with the cutoff wheel again to make them perfectly straight. I ended up doubling the width of the slots before I was done.

With it all cleaned up and the pan back in the plane I went to fit the belts and I'm still not anything like wide enough. So my first job of the day will be to get back more fiberglass grinding. Yay.

alexM
09-26-2020, 08:50 AM
25653
I couldn't get the above image inserted in my last post (clogged it up with Utah I guess). This shows the slots as I have them cut right now.

I forgot to mention in my previous post but I also installed the phenolic rudder cable guide pulleys and torqued them. I had to disconnect the flaperon and elevator push-pull tubes to get the bolts inserted so I spent some time laying under the plane getting that sorted out. I still find all of this work (installing, uninstalling, fitting, reinstalling - rinse, repeat) enjoyable.

Hopefully today I'll finish the seat belt installation and get the rest of the rudder cable guide tubes bonded in. Tomorrow I'm expecting Eric from Kitfox 5 Barn Find to visit, and we're going to visit yet another builder with the Aeromomentum engine on his Kitfox.

Dave S
09-26-2020, 09:30 AM
Quote

"In short, the original Kitfox 5 instructions have you drill several holes and use zip ties to hold the seat pan to the fuselage tubes. I'm not sure when the transition took place but the current series 7 has tabs welded to the fuselage tubes and you back drill into the seat and install nut plates."

================================================

Alex,

The addition of the welded nutplate brackets to the fuselage tubes was one of the improvements that John M made to the kit after he acquired the company. A very good and welcome addition. Our S7 is a pre-John McBean kit and had no nutplate brackets but instructed the builder to use zip ties exactly as with your S5. The zip tie deal seemed more than a little bush-league to me and I came to another conclusion using the thin non cushion aviation clamps over a layer of hockey stick tape (which comes in either black or white to suit our particular kitfox tastes!) The hockey stick tape is very thin and provides a separation/protection from the thin aluminum clamp while avoiding thickness that would interfere with the fit and finish of the seat pan. I went with SAE screws, washers and nylocks. With the seat pan screwed into position it is a very solid assembly. Since the clamps are not bonded or fastened to the tubes on our plane, I have attempted to become very proficient at not dropping the washer and nut that goes on the bottom, a technique which I apparently still need to perfect. The welded nutplates on the newer kits is the perfect solution - saves time and a lot of monkeybusiness.

Love the Utah photos - a place of incredible natural beauty which we love and have visited many times. First time out in the back country I heard an unusual noise - turned out that it is so quiet you could hear your own heart beat. I apologize to the local critters for gobbling up the pine nuts which are in season in the fall.

alexM
09-26-2020, 08:49 PM
Having trouble uploading images tonight. Here are a couple of the seat mounting tabs (from above and below)
25660
25662
I widened up the slots in the seat pan and now the belts can easily pass through.
25661

alexM
09-29-2020, 05:53 PM
I would like to thank whoever it is that posted the tip about straightening the rudder cable guide tubing by sticking it in a180 degree oven for a few minutes.
I was able to make them almost perfect with just my hands, and they stayed put.

I mixed up just the right amount of structural adhesive for once and bonded in all the remaining pieces.

I was just digging in my boxes for the rudder cables and found bags of hardware that I have since purchased from Aircraft Spruce.

Wondering if anyone can post pictures of the forward end of your center console sidewalls?

The manual says you'll be attaching them to the firewall later on. I find no further reference even going into the FWF installation manual. On a recent visit to another kitfox builder I made a point to check and his just dangle at the forward end.

jiott
09-29-2020, 08:21 PM
Yes, the forward ends of the center console sidewalls are unsupported except for a screw at the top and bottom; no problem.

PapuaPilot
09-30-2020, 10:23 AM
FYI I had the PK screws back out on my left console cover one time during my first 40 hours o flying (vibration??). My right rudder pedal got caught on the console cover at a very inopportune moment during a landing, thankfully it didn't cause an incident or worse. I added lock washers to these PK screw and now I check these panels for security on every preflight.

If I had to do it again I would install self locking nutplates and some #6 machine screws. Actually it wouldn't be that hard to do now.

alexM
09-30-2020, 11:09 AM
Jim and Phil,
Thank you. Clears up the mystery. And Phil I've already got a fresh pile of self locking nutplates and #6 machine screws ready to go in along that top edge of the center console sidewalls.

jiott
09-30-2020, 02:08 PM
Never had a screw back out in 900 hours on the side panels. The bottom screws are machine screws that go into tinnerman nuts under the floor boards; the top ones are the regular self-tapping screws.

alexM
09-30-2020, 10:03 PM
Tonight I ran the cables for the left side.

I should say "I made a meat hook on the end of a cable, and then decided to stop and use the super glue trick". Then I routed the cables. Got the pulleys backwards the first time (the cables cross and touch), then it all came together.

I got all the hardware sorted then set up some good light and attached the cable ends to the ruddee pedal torque tubes. Still need to torque and install cotter pins obviously.
25700
25701

alexM
10-03-2020, 08:47 AM
The other night I got the right side cables slipped into place and routed to the tail cone where they splice to the left side. I noticed that (in the series 5, anyway) it looked like the swaged fittings would rub on the diagonal fuselage tube and considered staggering them to avoid contact.
25717
I read through various forum posts here and found I'm not the first to ask, and that it's nothing to worry about once the cables are properly set. It would also likely result in the Nicopress fittings hitting the guide tubes before reaching full travel and that would be bad. And yes, I'll be adding some heat shrink over those splices.
You can see that in spite of my crazy questions in another thread regarding use of Spectra for Kevlar for rudder cables I'm going with the 7x19 1/8" SS cables that were in my box.

I've also read through the builders tips and read the posts regarding setting up the cables and I no longer fear getting them uneven or needing turnbuckles to make up for my errors. This forum is such a great resource.

Anyway, I can't complete the cable length setting until I've worked out the exact rudder location. Since my rudder was completed by builder #1 I need it in place so I can install my vertical fin ribs to align with them, install the fairing at the aft edge of the vertical fin and then fine tune where my rudder hangs. It is probably exactly where it is going to live, but un-cutting cable is a skill I don't have.

That means I need to stop with the cables and start with the ribs, so I spent the end of my build session doing the initial fitting of those. You'll see that I obtained fresh ribs from Kitfox which would be installed if this were a series 7.
25718
These all went well enough and sit relaxed in position. I have two questions for the gallery before I close this post out. See below:
25719
The manual for the series 5 has you take a significant chunk out and bond it back in, but that is because there were no lightening holes. The series 7 manual says you remove a chunk, but the image shows a kerf cut which seems to imply I'll be able to flex and wiggle the rib in place over that narrow tube. Is that going to work, or do I need to remove a wider section? I'm quite sure I can figure it out but the next one has be more stumped.
25720
The last rib in my pile would appear to be the bottom one, but mine is in one piece and it looks like I'll have to cut it into two. I vaguely recall seeing this somewhere but my renewed search comes up empty, and my RTFM session in both the series 5 and series 7 books don't say a word about cutting this rib. I've got an approximate dimension figured out where to cut between the two holes, just looking for a sanity check before I proceed.

Eric Page
10-03-2020, 11:15 AM
I have two questions for the gallery before I close this post out. [...]

The manual for the series 5 has you take a significant chunk out and bond it back in, but that is because there were no lightening holes. The series 7 manual says you remove a chunk, but the image shows a kerf cut which seems to imply I'll be able to flex and wiggle the rib in place over that narrow tube. Is that going to work, or do I need to remove a wider section? I'm quite sure I can figure it out but the next one has be more stumped.

The last rib in my pile would appear to be the bottom one, but mine is in one piece and it looks like I'll have to cut it into two. I vaguely recall seeing this somewhere but my renewed search comes up empty, and my RTFM session in both the series 5 and series 7 books don't say a word about cutting this rib. I've got an approximate dimension figured out where to cut between the two holes, just looking for a sanity check before I proceed.
Alex, here are a couple of photos of my fuselage that might help (ignore the shoddy adhesive application by builder #1). I suspect the lower rib you recall seeing was on my build.

I've exchanged a few emails with Debra McBean recently, preparing a parts order, and that bottom rib is one of the items I'll need to replace when I get the welding done. She had this to say about that rib: "That bottom rib is cut by the builder in half to fit into the Vert Stab."

alexM
10-04-2020, 07:50 PM
Alex, here are a couple of photos of my fuselage that might help (ignore the shoddy adhesive application by builder #1). I suspect the lower rib you recall seeing was on my build.

I've exchanged a few emails with Debra McBean recently, preparing a parts order, and that bottom rib is one of the items I'll need to replace when I get the welding done. She had this to say about that rib: "That bottom rib is cut by the builder in half to fit into the Vert Stab."

Thanks Eric,
I cut that bottom rib last night and I made a single angled cut on my vertical fin rib and it slips perfectly over the diagonal brace tube.
25732
25733
Now that everything is "dry fit" I will remove them all and sand them with 220 per the manual, then work out my bonding strategy.

alexM
10-10-2020, 07:29 PM
It has been a productive weekend so far. I've managed to get something done almost every night this past week, starting with sanding all of the wood pieces. Thursday night is when it got serious. I recently sprung for yet another Milwaukee tool, a Random Orbit Sander, and had to try it out. The book calls for 220 and the sander made quick work of it. Super smooth parts in no time.
I cleaned the parts and used the super glue trick to minimally tack the top 4-5 ribs in place making sure the alignment was as close to perfect as I could get. I clamped them in place and checked the orientation of the ribs relative to the temporarily hung rudder, then got on a step stool at the front of the plane and make sure there was no tilt I would regret later. I've built enough models to know that if you don't step back a ways and look you'll get some real forehead slapper errors glued in the ugly position.
25753
The next night I tacked the remaining wood pieces with the exception of the rib and bulkhead which get the aluminum angle for the tail access cover.
25752
More on those shortly because they were renting some space in my head.

On the same night that I super glued the lower ribs in place I mixed up 28 grams of structural adhesive and using my newly acquired horse syringe, my finger and several rags soaked with denatured alcohol I filleted the ribs from the previous night in place. That went well enough and I'm glad I used the super glue trick so I didn't have to worry about part placement as much. I still used several clamps and triple checked the alignment on every piece before I turned out the shop lights.

Last night I mostly stared at the parts. Regarding the ribs which get the aluminum pieces riveted/bonded to them, when I RTFM it says to bond the rib in place first. Later on I drill and attached the aluminum angle with adhesive and rivets. Then you bond the forward bulkhead, and then the aluminum piece.

The manual talks about how the rivets at the front may be hard to reach and to just do the best you can and count on adhesive for the rest. Uh, so more on that later on. It occurred to me that fitting and drilling those angles prior to bonding the rib in place might be a smart move. Not the riveting/bonding, because that would prevent you from being able to flex the rib in place. Just getting it all match drilled where it was easy - on the bench.

In order to fit those angles I would need to first fit the fairing which goes up the rudder post. That brings us to this morning, when I removed the rudder and spent a few hours fitting that fairing to the aft edge of the vertical stab and preparing it for bonding. After about ten tries I gradually shaped the tail edges of the vertical fin ribs until I could clamp the fairing at a single point and it would lay flat against the tail post with no preload or bridges. This included increasing the length of the "step" at the back of every fin rib where the fairing extended forward so it would lay absolutely flat when covered.
25754
With the fairing clamped in place I now knew exactly where the aluminum angle needed to start at the aft end.

Next I did my best job of reading the manual an interpreting how I should go about notching those aluminum angles. I cut the pieces longer than they needed to be and marked both of them symmetrically starting with 1.5" notches at the rear and transitioning to 1" and then .75" as I went forward. I marked them with a sharpie pen and then used the 2" cutoff wheel on my straight grinder. It's thickness is maybe 1/8" and once the cuts were made I realized I wouldn't need to cut V shaped notches after all. It was downright floppy with the cuts I made. I deburred the pieces and moved on.
Rib clamped in place, fairing clamped in place, I carefully marked the aft starting point of the angle and started in with the #30 drill and Cleco fasteners.
25755
25756
Shown above is the left side about 80% drilled and clamped. I stopped for dinner and here I am writing this. I'm headed back out to complete this side and then move on to the right side. I'll then deburr everything and bond the rib in place and set the angles aside.

Once the rib is bonded in place, I'll Cleco the angles in place, work out the forward end and then do this exact same job on the bulkhead.

Before I get that far however, I'll be sweeping some structural adhesive on the lower ribs and bonding on the tail post fairing. I still need to add the short stiffening cross pieces on three ribs too.

alexM
10-11-2020, 10:15 PM
Today I spent quite a bit of time fitting and drilling the right side aluminum piece, working to make sure both sides were symmetrical. Then I deburred the metal and sanded the wood again. It sure was nice being able to do the clamping and drilling on the bench instead of glued in place.
25757
I also fit the forward bulkhead but have not yet made the aluminum angles.

After the picture was taken I mixed up 40 grams of structural adhesive and bonded/filleted the longitudinal stiffeners, and bonded in that lower rib (without the aluminum of course). I guess I'm working in small batches of adhesive but I like to be able to stop after a while to clean up and double check alignment before things start to set up. I've probably got two more batches of adhesive to mix and spread
Today I didn't use the syringe and it was messier than I would like. I'll go back to using them for sure.

alexM
10-16-2020, 10:58 AM
Stopping for a few pictures. I had hoped to have the vertical fin aft fairing bonded in place already but I wanted to get the lower fin ribs in the fuselage bonded in place first. The bottom one down by the tail wheel would be easy to get in crooked, especially if you don't get your face down there and look.
My forehead slapper moment was when I lifted the tail up on a stool and found that I could sit on my rolling stool and get to it easily. I ended up removing one of the wood pieces because it was crooked with my tacking it in place with superglue.

Going back to the syringe method was a huge thing. I also borrowed from another thread and used masking tape outside the fillet area to make clean up easy. Turns out the syringe worked so well that I didn't get anything on the tape. Once I had squeezed a bead everywhere I needed, I just came back with a Popsicle stick and alcohol rag (and finger) to make it all smooth.
25802
I've got a pile of the curved tip irrigating syringes coming soon so I don't have to keep breaking out the dried Hysol between batches. Mostly I want that longer tip so I can reach into tighter spaces.
25803
Whoever suggested owning a ton of these clamps, thank you. They get lots of use.
25804
Random image, a 20' view of my tiny "shop". It's starting to look like an airplane. I even have the side stringers cleco'd in place now.
25805
Wanting to keep the momentum up while waiting for the Hysol to kick off at the tail end, I moved to the end that eats. I laid out the hole pattern for the console sidewall fasteners and drilled them. Still need to debur but I had been sweating this for a while.

Another thing I did was fine tune the rudder pedals. When I did a test run of the step where you block them in place and parallel for cutting the rudder cables I noticed that the right side pedals were perfectly parallel to the torque tubes and perpendicular to the floor, but the pedals on the left side weren't so square.

The manual has you set the length of the master cylinders at exactly 7.25" (if I recall), which is fine but it doesn't account for manufacturing variation in the rudder pedal torque tubes or the pedals themselves. So I removed the top bolt and adjusted the length of the master cylinders until all four pedals are in perfect alignment when blocked in place for setting the cables.

Eric Page
10-16-2020, 05:35 PM
Boy, I sure wish the adhesive in my plane looked like that! As you well know, my first builder applied it with a spatula taped to the end of a broom stick. I'm on-my-knees grateful that it'll all be covered up with fabric. I just wish the plane didn't have to carry around the extra weight for its whole life...

Frontier Fox
10-16-2020, 06:51 PM
I found that “catheter” syringes 60 ml. Worked really well and are inexpensive. I bought a case and it lasted through most of my build.

alexM
10-18-2020, 09:57 AM
I found that “catheter” syringes 60 ml. Worked really well and are inexpensive. I bought a case and it lasted through most of my build.

I should be thankful that I have no clue what a catheter syringe looks like. I guess since I've gone through the awkwardness of buying "horse syringes" in person (where I was quick to add "uh, I don't need the needles"), I should be getting used to it.

My 60cc irrigation syringes (ordered through amazon) and big box of tongue depressors showed up yesterday. The syringes are not curved tip like I expected, but straight with a taper and big enough hole I don't need to open them up with a drill bit. Way back in another thread I found reference to silicone lubricant on the plungers and some debate about whether that was common. So far EVERY syringe I have purchased has had some thin film of slippery lube on the plunger, so prior to first use I clean it off with denatured alcohol.

25808
Two nights ago I bonded on the fairing for the rudder post. I thought I had it clamped up perfectly but when I removed all the restraints yesterday I found a bit of a "wow" or pucker between two ribs in the third bay from the top, and also found that below the horizontal stab the ribs didn't sit perfectly flush with the notches in the ribs.
I think both of these conditions would be obvious after covering so I set about fixing them. I still had some of the old ribs that had been removed from the vertical fin so I cut one of them to make a brace that will bring that wow/pucker into perfect alignment. It is ready to go it but I still need to epoxy varnish the bare wood before the brace goes in.
For the ribs below the horizontal stab I cut the Hysol loose and cleaned them up so they will lay perfectly flat on the second try. I did not mix up any Hysol last night, but probably do that later this afternoon after I make up the short rib stiffeners that run crosswise to the longitudinal axis.

However
Eager to see how the rudder fit up against the newly re-installed fairing I decided to hang the rudder. The first time I did the task it must have taken two hours to get the top and bottom bolts in, and I must have dropped bolts inside the vertical fin 100 times. I have an idea cooking in my head for a tool (a chunk of my career has been aerospace tool design) to make the job easier. Last night I prototyped my concept by taking a piece of frog tape about 9" long and slicing it into thin strips. I put the thin strip up near the head of the bolt and brought the two ends together in a sloppy tail. Then, grabbing the taped part of the bolt with a pair of needle nose and sticking the tail to the needle nose, I installed the first bolt in seconds.

Thinking it must have been a fluke I did the second one. I lost grip of the bolt with the needle nose but the tail did its job and I didn't even have to bend over once to pick up a bolt. Under five relaxed minutes and the top and bottom were in place. Why frog tape? Well other than it being what was close at hand I have found that it's not very sticky and has almost zero strength - but certainly enough for this job. Once the bolt is safely in the hole you just pull the tail hard and the tape "fails", leaving you with a mostly installed bolt. No scratches from the needle nose and no tape residue.

With the rudder temporarily re-hung I got to see the gap between the rudder/vertical stab for the first time. I have no idea what the gap is supposed to be. I know that aerodynamically it should be as close to zero as possible, but I also know I have to account for the thickness of the fabric. I ended up extended the bottom hinge a couple of full turns and now have a tiny bit over 1/4" top-bottom at the center line of the aircraft, and can run full deflection side to side without any gaps getting smaller.

I made my semi-weekly Aircraft Spruce order including a fresh batch of epoxy varnish, fresh Super fill, some hardware and some sheet metal tools.

Eric Page
10-18-2020, 10:46 AM
The first time I did the task it must have taken two hours to get the top and bottom bolts in, and I must have dropped bolts inside the vertical fin 100 times. I have an idea cooking in my head for a tool (a chunk of my career has been aerospace tool design) to make the job easier. Last night I prototyped my concept by taking a piece of frog tape about 9" long and slicing it into thin strips. I put the thin strip up near the head of the bolt and brought the two ends together in a sloppy tail. Then, grabbing the taped part of the bolt with a pair of needle nose and sticking the tail to the needle nose, I installed the first bolt in seconds.
As usual, there's a tool for that (https://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/topages/handeeclamp.php)! A few cents cheaper from EAA (https://www.eaa.org/shop/product-detail?i=2096&pr=2685183), if that's all you're ordering.

PapuaPilot
10-24-2020, 08:42 AM
I usually use a pair of long hemostats for jobs like that. The tips flex enough to hold an AN3 bolt and they can be unlocked with one hand.

alexM
10-24-2020, 02:28 PM
Inching forward. I had a bit of time to burn waiting for my Aircraft Spruce order. It was scheduled to show up yesterday but somewhere during the week I got an alert from UPS saying there had been an issue with the truck and the arrival would be TBD.
That order contained my Super Fill and my epoxy varnish, which I would need before getting far. I busied myself making the cross-wise rib braces and tacking them first with superglue and then filleting with Hysol. I got the lower ribs all fit flush to the tail post fairing, then glued and clamped those ribs using thick steel rulers to help keep the fairing fare. With every batch of Hysol I mixed up I was able to fillet the tail end of all the fin ribs to the fairing.
25902
The pic above was taken before I came back and cleaned things up. I'm getting better at applying adhesive but still glad this area will get covered up. I added some flox to the Hysol to fill the gaps at the very bottom of the tail post. I'm sure this is a potential water trap so I wanted it filled smoothly and without holes.
25903
Speaking of Hysol, above is showing the way I upped my game. I have a lifetime supply of the 3oz paper cups and tongue depressors, the cheap but pretty darn accurate digital scale (turns out my other scale really only reads in grams which would be fine for large batches of adhesive but not when you're mixing up just a little). I zero out the scale with the paper cup on it, so what you're seeing there is a tongue depressor which weighs 2.58grams.
That irrigating syringe has now squirted several batches of adhesive. When done, I pull the plunger out and clean up the rubber piece with alcohol and just leave the other part to kick off completely. The next day I dig in there with a long screw driver and pluck out the chunk of adhesive cleanly.
25904
While I was holding down the couch yesterday the UPS man showed up on the original date with my package from Spruce! Perfect timing. I had just finished creating the balsa wood pieces for the top of the vertical fin and fit them in place. The Hysol is just photo bombing here but the epoxy varnish, Super Fill, torque seal,tools etc are all new.
25905
Prior to bonding and clamping, which I did last night.
25906
This morning I shaped the wood starting with 80 grit and my random orbit sander, then 120, and then I hand sanded with 120 to create "a pleasing shape" per the directions in the manual.
Before opening up my Super Fill I pulled out the old containers which came with my project. I wanted to see if they were still usable. The old stuff seemed stiff so I wrote it off, which is a shame because I was clearly the first person to open the containers.
After I opened the new containers I realized it was pretty stiff material too, though not like the old stuff. I mixed it up and while I can't say it "flows" it was at least easier to stir and mix (note: It's also pretty cold here today, which of course makes everything not flow very well).

My youngest son wants to learn to make fiberglass parts, so I might give him the old stuff which might still work for making a plug.

The Super Fill says it needs to cure above 70 degrees F which my garage definitely is not today, so my radiant heater that is normally pointed at me is pointed at the tail of my plane. It's all warm to the touch (not hot) but the cure time means I'm dead in the water for sanding tail parts until tomorrow sometime.

So I went forward to the center console side walls where I needed to open up the #30 pilots and deburr everything with my new tool. I need to install my new batch of Click-bond nutplates, which will require an hour or so of prep to get them ready (and I'll need my heater back).

alexM
10-24-2020, 02:30 PM
My engine
I made the deposit so I guess I'm out of excuses for not bringing up my choice of power. I'm going with the Verner Scarlett 7U radial. My build slot should result in a delivery in July, which is about exactly when I think I will be ready for it.
25907
My project came with the series 7 FWF kit for the Rotax 912, which is of course the engine that everyone says I should just shut up and install. I'm not a Rotax hater but they also don't stir my soul. I have about 200 hours flying behind radials so far and they do stir my soul just fine, thank you. Yes I strongly considered just going with the 912 and I would probably have been happy with that.

Arguments for the 912:
Resale value. I will own this plane for many years and will likely hand it over to one of my kids when I'm through with it. Resale has zero consideration for me.
Proven dependability. Rotax has, after 20+ years, demonstrated that the 912 is as reliable as Continental and Lycoming. That is statistical truth and must be acknowledged. I can't help but notice the price has crept up to parity also, especially if you want anything more than 100.0 hp for takeoff. From what I read while the 912 was still on my short list, the aftermarket upgrades to the 912 for anything above 100.0 hp don't enjoy the same reputation for reliability/longevity as the factory warranted version.

Arguments for the Verner:
I'm already accustomed to pulling blades on a cold engine, waiting patiently for the oil to warm up and running my fingers through my 25W-60 lubed hair when I land. I consider it a privilege.
124hp@2300rpm for takeoff and 103hp@2000rpm continuous.
288 ft lbs of torque at 2,000rpm. It can swing an 82" prop, which right now is my only "problem".
Mogas or 100LL no issue (7.8:1 compression ratio and no gearbox to foul)
The current TBO of 1,000 hours is conservative and will go up over time (just like the 912 did)
Dual spark, electronic ignition with individual coils. Yes dual ignition is an option, and a no brainer.
Direct drive.
Engine preheat not required above -5C (gotta love those iron curtain guys).
Weight of the installed engine will be slightly more than a 912 ULS and less than a 914, which means way less than an O-200, O-235, etc. FAR lighter than the Rotec radials.

I once posted a link in an engine thread here that got removed, probably because it looked like I was shilling a product. No link this time, but feel free to look up Samson Mite Verner 9S startup and flyby with Steve Wolf. He fires it up at about the 3:40 mark.

And while I was worried that I'd be the only guy on earth trying to do this I have since learned of a guy back east that now owns the Rotec powered Kitfox that shows up in the kitfox literature, and he has pulled the Rotec and is installing the Scarlett 9S (like Steve is running in his Samson Mite above). I now also know of at least one other guy who has pulled the trigger on the Scarlett 7 also. So while I may be crazy, I'm not alone.

Eric Page
10-25-2020, 10:17 AM
Your wife and kids have probably already claimed first ride after testing, but I'm next! That thing is going to be spectacular.

alexM
10-29-2020, 10:52 AM
A few pictures I forgot to post after last weekend's work. I sanded the smurf poo down and was pleased enough with the way it came out that I do not see a need to apply more. I did take several pictures of the finished shape and they all make it look like I have flat spots or ridges when close examination in person shows it to be smooth all over. I'm going to have to pull the rudder off to get those back corners perfect, and of course I still need to do the ends of the horizontal stab and elevator.

25985

At the other end of the plane I was working the center console to sidewall fasteners. These Clickbond nutplates are now fully cured. I had to grind away the finish under the nutplates so they would bond well. Unlike my application on the steel parts I don't have to touch up the primer but I did do an etch and Alodine touch up.
25986
25987

airlina
10-29-2020, 01:14 PM
Gotta love those clickbond fasteners, when I found them at OSH many years ago I was thrilled. I used them on many areas on my Series 5. Even mounted some of their studs on my engine case to support adels to hold fuel lines etc. For you current builders who haven't seen them , check out their website , might help during your build. Bruce N199CL

efwd
10-29-2020, 04:42 PM
Yeah, I wish I had known of these. Would have simplified things a lot.

alexM
10-29-2020, 05:12 PM
Gotta love those clickbond fasteners, when I found them at OSH many years ago I was thrilled. I used them on many areas on my Series 5. Even mounted some of their studs on my engine case to support adels to hold fuel lines etc. For you current builders who haven't seen them , check out their website , might help during your build. Bruce N199CL

I discovered the Clickbond standoffs and studs several years ago in a place a big marine supply place in Seattle. Even though they're aerospace stuff and I've been in aerospace pretty much my whole career, airplane companies don't generally rush out to embrace new ideas.

At one place I worked we needed some potted inserts for honeycomb composite panels and the inserts we needed were in short supply across the globe. I found a company that made them out of plastic (OMG!) and that company offered me samples to test in our lab. They turned out to meet every requirement set for the metal ones (hint: the insert and the potting compound tear out of the panel before the insert ever fails).

If you're meticulous about surface prep, mixing and curing your adhesive then these should be good to go. I thought I would be laughed out of the room at my current employer (I'm used to it) but it turns out we use Clickbond nutplates in certain applications.

jmodguy
10-29-2020, 07:35 PM
Ok I’ll be watching for your flight reviews. Have been hearing a lot about the Verner and really like radials. Gonna be a great sounding and performing aircraft!

alexM
11-07-2020, 10:24 AM
A few pictures going in to the weekend and hopefully some more along the way. I have the balsa pieces glued on to the ends of the horizontal stab and elevator, rough sanded, filled with Super Fill and sanded some more. I've decided to wait until I pull the stab/elevator off the plane to finish shaping the tips because access will be so much easier.

Before that
My plan is to measure and mark the rudder cables (I may cut and swage them as suggested in the tips section and just get it over with), and I still have to set my center hinge bearing on the rudder. Really looking forward to that step. I've also got to fix the rudder over travel issue because the PO trimmed too much off the horns. I've read of some elegant solutions here on the forum, so thanks to whoever screwed this part up before me.

I'm also going to follow the rigging instructions to set up the horizontal stab and elevator to make sure there are no issues with that. I have already determined that the two welded tabs at the very back (not used with the speedster tail) do not interfere with the elevator travel at the extremes of stab trim. It's that kind of stuff that I'll be looking for by following the rigging instructions, but it should also allow me to lock down some of the push rod adjustments and not have to mess with them later. I'm not going to celebrate with torque seal on them just yet though.

Engine mount
Since I'm going with the weirdo engine I'll need to obtain an engine mount. The US distributor that I'm working with suggested I design my own, and sent me some pictures to use as inspiration. I've never designed an engine mount before but I have designed airplane parts most of my career so I decided to give it a try. I measured up my fuselage attachment locations, spent a lot of time staring at/measuring the 912 mount I have, looking at/measuring the mount on my Citabria and then looking at a whole lot of pictures of radial engine mounts. I also had a nice long conversation with Ted Myers who is installing a nine cylinder Verner on a Kitfox 7.

Back the truck up a sec
I have to walk back a statement I have probably made a few places, and that is in regards to the plane Ted is working on. I was under the mistaken impression that the plane Ted is doing the work on was a previous factory demonstrator plane. Though the paint schemes are similar, it is not the same aircraft. The plane Ted is working on is one some of you might have seen on Barnstormers a year or so ago, a plane that was in the Rotec booth at Oshkosh 2019 (assuming I finally have my story straight).

Moving on
I now have a fully parametric model of a ring-type mount which can be adjusted any way I need it to. I've done 3D CAD since the late 80s so this kind of stuff is what I do. I own an older (legal) seat of Solidworks but it's on an old laptop that is weak in the knees. So I downloaded the EAA Solidworks 2020 onto my new laptop and gave it a spin.
26032
This is one of those objects that is difficult to view from a single angle and have it look right. As modeled I can shift the engine forward or back, raise it up, add some thrust angles, change tubing diameter/wall thickness and recalculate the whole thing in seconds.
I used the "Weldment" function in Solidworks which is pretty amazing, and I did some finite element analysis which showed the mount could shrug off +6G with a 1.5 factor of safety. Not an exhaustive evaluation but at least it is a start.

The Verner uses the same Lord mounts as the Rotax 912 and some Continental O-200 installations, and I just happen to own four of the mounts already.

A couple of days ago I sent the CAD model to the same welder Eric used on his Barn Find recently. Not only is his welding a thing of beauty, the guy welds most/all of the engine mounts for Van's so he probably knows a thing or two. He's going to review my design and sling dirt at it until I get it right.

Getting my hands dirty again
All that computer stuff is fine if you have the stomach for it, but we're here to build airplanes. I've been itching to get this next task done for a while. My fiberglass seat pan has never been a thing of beauty. Back when I was spending time at my local body shop to clean up my fuselage after welding and powder coat repairs I picked up a can of two-part bed liner. Of course I waited until the temperatures dropped to try it out right? I had my son sand the white gelcoat until it was paper thin, and I ran out and bought a space heater for my garage. My seat pan has the optional storage trays already mounted so I masked them off and cleaned the whole thing very carefully with alcohol. Out of excuses, I hosed on the bed liner last night.
26033
Before
26034
After
And no, I didn't paint it sitting there. In that second image it is still very wet and flashing off. There were a lot of acetone fumes so I got the heat going and left it alone. The wet clumpy look calmed down considerably and I'm pretty happy with way it turned out. The stuff I used cures in one hour but it takes three days before you can really give it the business. I'm going to weigh it today and see how much the bed liner cost me in useful load.

Window and door trim
With the seat about ready to bolt in I turned my attention to the aluminum pieces around the door frames and the window. These were actually the very first pieces I did anything with when I first got my project. I can recall being a bit overwhelmed at how they were supposed to fit and not really happy with their condition. They had been installed by the first builder and removed by the second builder. They were not perfect when installed and removing them didn't improve them at all.
26035
Some of the pieces actually fit very well and some are way off. After messing with them for a few hours the other night I decided to order all new pieces from Kitfox, and emailed in my RFQ yesterday. The pieces that are in good shape will serve as patterns for the new pieces, and the bad pieces will serve as a guide on what not to do.

I made a discovery last night that I was not stoked about. A couple of weeks ago I brought home my side stringers and cleco'd them in place. There was tape around the ends and they still needed to have the old structural adhesive cleaned up. Well last night I pulled the tape off and found that whoever cut those side stringers screwed up the right side and cut the tube too short. They cobbled together some kind of fix involving a short aluminum inner sleeve, a piece of wood dowel and a wad of Hysol.

I figure shipping a couple of 9' long pieces of aluminum tube from Idaho will cost more than the tubing, so I've sent a request for quote to Metal Supermarkets about 20 miles away, who I have done plenty of business with in the past. I can just drive there and get the pieces and be back in business quickly.

I'm still resolving my landing gear situation (I need some more inches to clear a big prop) and I have started looking at what I'm going to do for my panel. With any luck I'll be taking the fuselage to my hangar soon and starting my wings by Thanksgiving.

Eric Page
11-07-2020, 12:16 PM
That seat pan looks really good. I like that idea a lot; expect me to steal it!

I have a crate sitting at Kitfox that's going out next week. It already has a 10' elevator push-pull tube and two PVC strut fairings in it, so the length wouldn't be an issue. You might ask Debra if she can add your tubes to my crate. We could meet halfway for a taco and hand them off. Or, if they'll fit in your Citabria, you could come and get them.

alexM
11-07-2020, 01:55 PM
That's a generous offer Eric, thanks. You had me at "taco". I just left a voicemail with Kitfox to see if I can get some parts in your crate. I'm happy to support the factory when possible.

I just weighed my seat after curing and the bed liner cost me 4.4 ounces. It's actually less than that but I didn't weigh the seat before sanding the gelcoat down.

rv9ralph
11-07-2020, 07:34 PM
I have a question on coating the seat pan with bed liner... I you are using upholstery, it is usually attached to the seat pan with velcro, covering the seat pan. It is usually attached to the seat pan with velcro. Will the velcro stick to the bed liner?

Just thinking.

Ralph

alexM
11-08-2020, 09:56 AM
I considered that for a while. I'm honestly not sure what my upholstery will look like or where the velcro would go, so it was hard to plan for. It would not be difficult to mask off those locations once I know where they are and sand the bed liner smooth.

I will say that for any application where my employer uses "hook and loop" we don't trust the sticky side so we glue it on with epoxy. In that case minimal sanding would give the epoxy a sufficient surface.
26055
Here's a poser shot with the seat pan in place

26056
Speaking of poser shots, I brought my boot cowl home from the airport today and did a very temporary install of my firewall, boot cowl and the 912 engine mount. These parts are all back safely in the rafters of my "shop" now. While I like sitting in the plane and making airplane noises, I really like getting out parts that are way down the road and getting an idea of how they will be impacted by what I'm doing now. It is also a confidence booster by making the plane look more done.

I can see there is lots of trimming and fitting in my future. It is still not clear to me at all how the bottom flap of the firewall is supposed to attach to the fuselage where it extends back several inches. I might have added welded tabs if I knew about this at the right time. It makes me even more glad that I won't have to get back in there if I need to remove the rudder pedals for any reason.

The majority of the work I did yesterday was to start at the very front of the plane (without the boot cowl, firewall and mount) and get everything truly ready for setting rudder cable length. I started by replacing the AN526-1032R12 fasteners with *R10s. I replaced them mostly because they've been in and out of the plane so many times the Philips heads aren't as pretty as they once were. I dropped down to the -10 length because the -12s stuck through my nutplates so far they ran a risk of contacting that flappy thing on the firewall. I still have more than 3 threads with the -10 length

Next I went through every fastener on the rudder pedals and rudder cables, replacing washers as needed to get 1-3 threads protruding on all the nyloc nuts, and to position all the castle nuts for ideal engagement of the cotter pins. Finally, I installed my first cotter pins.

I celebrated by making a mess with a brand new tube of torque seal. I'm really only using it to mark the fasteners that shouldn't have to be disturbed again. Of course I marked my fingers, pants, etc. Good to go.

I'm going to continue back through the flight controls all the way through the flaperon mixer while my floor boards and seat are out of the plane. THEN I'll be ready to mark and possibly cut my rudder cables, set my elevator travel, etc.

Today I probably won't get much done because the annual on my Citabria should (hopefully) be signed off this morning. I'm supposed to take part in a formation fly over for a WW II veteran's 98th birthday.

Fortunately it's severe clear and very cold - perfect flying weather.

alexM
11-14-2020, 09:26 AM
26076
Pic taken last weekend.
Most everyone bailed because of the winds, but there was a P-51 which made the whole thing worth it.

During the week I got my door trim pieces from Kitfox delivered. Earlier in the week Deb from Kitfox called me regarding putting my stringers into Eric's crate. It was my first time talking to her (very nice and knows her stuff). Turns out Eric's crate was only 8' long and the stringer tubes are 9'.
I had already arranged to procure 1/2" aluminum tubing locally, and had matched my order to the stringers that came with my plane (which were 0.063" wall), but Deb said they used tubing half that thick. My will-call order was already cut but when I got down there I asked about thinner wall tube. If I went with 6061 instead of 6063 I could get thin wall tube, and of course lighten my wallet a few ounces. I went home and ordered a new set of tubing, and picked that order up a day later.
Seems trivial but readers will be used to me slapping things on my scale-of-truth. Going with the thinner wall tubing saves me about 1.25 pounds.
I should mention that weight difference includes a third piece to use as a belly stringer. The series 5 calls for a piece of wood. I do have wood stringers but I only have four pieces and those are intended for the wings (100% likely I'll also go with the SS type aluminum tubes in the wings as well).

Two nights ago I spent the evening with my heat gun and scraper, removing the traces of Hysol from around the door frames and going over all the bonding surfaces with a scotchbrite wheel on my angle grinder. It was one of those nights where you reach a stopping place but then pick up one more piece to see how it fits. "Squirrel"! Next thing you know it is past midnight.

26077
I've read about how this can be a tough job, and the pieces that came with my project show some areas where it could have come out better. The instructions say to start on the window frame, so I grabbed the pieces that fit the best and used them as a pattern. I found it easiest to use a good part from the left side to clamp to the stock and make an opposite hand part (rather than another left hand). After messing with choices of the correct tools to use I finally arrived at the combination that works best for me:

-Sharpie pen to eyeball the lines where I will cut, then a scale and my scribe to mark the line on the sharpie mark (makes it easy to see because of the contrast)
-Right/left aerospace tin snips to cut pretty close to the line,
-2" sanding disc on my angle grinder to fine tune the shape and get in the places the tin snips can't,
-2" scotchbrite wheel to debur edges, put some small radii on all the corners.
-2" cutoff wheel on my straight grinder to make the slots. I should admit that I tried several methods which weren't working out well before I grabbed that cutoff wheel and made nice slots in seconds.
26078
Last night I put in several hours completing both right and left window frames. Happy to report that I did not cut anything too short and I did not make any opposite hand parts by mistake (there is huge potential to do so). Having the old pieces on hand sped this up considerably vs. raw stock and nothing to compare to. And of course once you have a part you know is good, making an opposite from that part goes even quicker.
26079
I'm going to complete the rest of the door frame pieces before drilling the holes in them, and I'll be cutting/drilling my stringers. There will be some very minor fitting where I left just a hint of extra material where things overlap.

It's going to be a good weekend, with Hysol and rivets to be consumed.

alexM
11-16-2020, 12:12 AM
I did put in several hours and I'm happy with my progress but, well - no Hysol or rivets as I projected.
26084
After being happy with my progress with the window frames I thought I was on the home stretch with the rest of the door angles. Not so much. I think I spent half of saturday fine tuning the location of those door angles so that I could drill holes and insert Clecos and everything would sit where I wanted it to. Then I spent the rest of the day trimming and fitting the left side seat back angle, and also cutting fitting and drilling the left side stringer.

I found it difficult to fit the pieces with minimum gaps and it took me quite a while to work out the overlaps and make sure I had sufficient edge margins. I looked on several build threads and apparently I'm the only one who struggled with the door angles. In several threads they just show up miraculously with hardly a mention. I did find good images to go by on the tropicaltuba website, and also the one's John McBean posted at some point.

After a long day today I can say that I've got all but the very last angle (the short one at the very front). I also have the stringers ready for bonding/riveting except for the very tail ends, which I left slightly long.

Now that I know all these parts fit nicely I can work out my adhesive strategy. I've got some final deburring and prep to do before bonding. Hoping I can get that done tomorrow night.
26085
No scrapped parts, no poor edge margins, no extra holes and no trips to the ER.

alexM
11-20-2020, 06:36 PM
A few days with no hands-on time, but lots of reading and surfing. As I planned my way forward with the door angles I read up again on bonding dissimilar metals together, and also pondered the body and fender work in the corners.
As flashy as the clad aluminum looks, the Hysol and Superfil in the corners will mess up the look, and fabric will cover it all later anyway.
I read up on my specs and decided to hit the parts with a maroon Scotch Brite pad. I looked locally for 5" velcro discs for my random orbit sander but no go. I found them on Amazon but the delivery date was 2 weeks, and only if I wanted $94 worth of them.
I found them on the R.S. Hughes web site and hoped I could go pick them up, but they didn't have any at the store. So I set up an account, ordered 5 discs (for cheap) and then made the mistake of looking at the rest of the web site. It's hard to believe how much self control I exercised by ordering only the 5" pads, but it was only because the other items in my car showed a later shipping date and I didn't want my pads sitting in a box waiting for the other items. They came yesterday

Parts prep
I put my hands on every door angle (12 pieces), the side stringers and the belly stringer. I deburred all the holes with my whirligig thing, dehorned every edge, sharp corner and tool mark and then got as many surfaces as I could with the 5" random orbit, just enough to brake the shine. I used my fingers and a piece of maroon pad to get the insides of the angles, which are of course the bonding surfaces. I cleaned up all three stringers by hand with the Scotch Brite pad.
I cleaned the parts with acetone and kept at it until the rag came clean.

Etch and Alodine
It was time to get my engineering geek on, so out came the Bonderite C-IC 33 etch and M-CR 1201 Alodine. I needed something that was long enough to fit the longest parts (about 29") but was a small enough volume that I didn't need to waste chemicals. Did you know that no one does wallpaper anymore? Who knew? I hoped to find those long, narrow tubs they use to wet stuff out, but no such luck.
Best bang for the buck was some shallow storage tubs at Walmart. Much wider than I needed so I just tipped them up at an angle. I had just enough depth to do one set of six parts at a time.
The Alodine specs say it needs to be between ambient and 100 degrees. Well I was doing it outside and today it wasn't particularly "ambient". I started with hot tap water since the chemicals were cold and they would cool quickly as I used it.

I scrambled for the better part of an hour. Both chemicals say they should be applied for 2-5 minutes, and they need to be thoroughly rinsed after each step (and dried too unless they're going straight into the next tank).
I went with 4 minutes for both. I etched the first set of 6 parts, rinsed them then threw them in the Alodine. I was able to stagger my timing with the next batch so that I was constantly rinsing or swishing parts. When done I dried the parts (they can get splotchy if you don't, which doesn't really matter but hey).

I got those completely done, and then went after the stringers. Obviously the 9' stringers weren't going in my 30" tubs, so I stood them vertically and kept them wet as high as I could reach and swapping ends every 45 seconds or so. As they say "rinse, repeat". And dry.
26153
26154
I wish I could have taken a picture after etching but before Alodine but I was too busy. The parts are super clean and almost white. Any pictures taken of parts on this work bench have zebra stripes because the bench light is an LED and the camera sees something the naked eye does not.

rv9ralph
11-20-2020, 08:32 PM
You definitely went the full measure to alodine the parts. One method of soaking the parts is to fabricate a trough by laying 2 pieces of lumber (your choice) a few inches apart blocking the ends with a couple more blocks of wood, then covering with plastic to create a trough, then fill with the chemicals. Another method is to spray the Alodine onto the material, keeping it wet until it has done its work, then rinsing. To dry, blow off with compressed air.

To prep the material, you can clean with alumaprep, scrubbing by hand with scotch brite. Instead of using an orbital sander, get a pneumatic angle grinder with a 3" rolo disc mandrel. Use rolo disc scotch write pads to do the work.

Ralph

Eric Page
11-21-2020, 11:29 AM
Another good option is an appropriate length of PVC pipe with a cap glued on one end. Insert parts and Alodine, cap the open end, hold a rag over the cap to catch dribbles, and commence sloshing.

alexM
11-25-2020, 10:18 PM
You definitely went the full measure to alodine the parts. One method of soaking the parts is to fabricate a trough by laying 2 pieces of lumber (your choice) a few inches apart blocking the ends with a couple more blocks of wood, then covering with plastic to create a trough, then fill with the chemicals. Another method is to spray the Alodine onto the material, keeping it wet until it has done its work, then rinsing. To dry, blow off with compressed air.

To prep the material, you can clean with alumaprep, scrubbing by hand with scotch brite. Instead of using an orbital sander, get a pneumatic angle grinder with a 3" rolo disc mandrel. Use rolo disc scotch write pads to do the work.

Ralph


Another good option is an appropriate length of PVC pipe with a cap glued on one end. Insert parts and Alodine, cap the open end, hold a rag over the cap to catch dribbles, and commence sloshing.

I did consider making a trough and also the PVC pipe idea (which I plan to use for my spars). It occurred to me that I know about the PVC trick but I'm not positive there is no chemical reaction issues with the PVC, and I should probably make some tests, certainly before I dip my spars.

Door angle day
I've been needing to set aside a few hours to bond and rivet my door angles and side stringers. I started the other day but got hung up on making sure the side stringer prep was complete.

This afternoon I finally took the plunge. I prepped surfaces with an alcohol wipe down, Cleco'd all the parts in place and clamped where necessary (mostly the piece along the bottom edge of the door). I went through both the series 5 and 7 manuals to get my rivets ready. My Milwaukee rivet gun worked perfectly.

I mixed up 120 grams of Hysol and got to work. Having both sides assembled and clamped for best orientation was very helpful in the heat of putting gooey parts together. I could refer to the other side and know right were to put it all back together. Saved me more than once. I loaded up one of my fat syringes and reloaded it when I switched to the other side of the plane.

I learned right away on the overlapping parts that once the Hysol squeezed through the hole it was a challenge getting the Cleco back in, but it all came together.
For the corner where forward end of the side stringer tucks behind the door angles I started with the stringers Cleco'd only at the 2nd hole from the front, with the aft end supported part way out the horizontal stab braces. That way they put no outward load on the door angles, making part alignment easier.

Once both sides were glued and re-Cleco'd I retured with the rivets. I pulled each Cleco, wiped it with an alcohol rag and dropped it in a cup of acetone, then "shot" the rivets one at a time. One rivet on the right side didn't draw the parts together very well, so I scrambled to drill that one out and do it over.

I didn't know if I would have enough time and/or Hysol to get to the side stringers but I did. They went pretty quickly as it turned out.

When all the rivets were in place I cleaned up the squeeze out, then came back with the rest of the syringe and filled in some of the gaps. I had to set up a few heat sources in my cold garage to make sure I was at least in the 70 F range, then I cleaned up my Clecos.
26228
26229
The rope was used to pull the two stringers together once I riveted them along the sides of the fuselage. The preload they put on the door angles pushes a gap I didn't want to fill later. I'm quite sure it will be rock solid once the Hysol kicks off.
The short pieces of pool noodle visible at the back corner of the side windows pushes the lower angles outward, leaving the gap I'll need for those side windows.

26230
26231
I'm keeping it semi warm in my garage so the Hysol cures as needed. Tomorrow I should have time to spread some Superfil, and possibly get the bottom stringer in place.

Eric Page
11-25-2020, 10:44 PM
Man, I wish mine looked that nice, but I don't wish it enough to remove them and start over. I'm thankful that they'll be covered!

bbs428
11-26-2020, 08:41 AM
That's some nice work Alex. :)

alexM
11-30-2020, 11:27 AM
Not much in the way of pictures from my 4 day weekend but I did get some work done. I used Superfil around the door angle intersections and sanded it back down. Of course doing that messed up my beautiful Alodine work, but I was able to touch up the Alodine acceptably so at least I know it will be protected under the fabric.

We were cursed with unusually clear blue sky so I set my tools down and flew my Citabria for about 2.5 hours. I'm going to miss that plane when I sell it. It pays its own way in my life but I only have one hangar, and I'm sure everyone out there knows that hangar space is at a premium these days.

I thought I was ready to varnish my ribs in the vertical fin but found a couple of places that needed fine tuning. In the typical "oh, I could be working on that instead" approach, I returned my attention to the rudder cables. I followed the suggestions of user jtpitkin in posts #47 and #49 in the Helpful Hints thread regarding how to measure and cut the cables, and also the logic of cutting them prior to fabric covering. I swaged and applied heat shrink to the aft ends and then the right side cables where they splice in the tail cone. His instructions worked great, and while there's not much to take a picture of, I was able to sit in my plane last night and operate the rudder pedals. Seeing them move (correctly!) was a good feeling. I still need to cut off the excess cable but that won't take long.

I need to fine tune my Hysol/Superfil work on the tail surface end caps, apply epoxy varnish of course, complete the install of the belly stringer, set my rudder center hinge and then the fuselage is sort of ready for cover. Actually, I just remembered that I need to install my forward bulkhead in the tail section and address the rest of the aluminum angles which serve to mount the access panel covers. That will take a while but the hard work is done.

Last night I held the parts in my hands for the stab trim system. I have to run wires for the trim motor and I also have to do my trim indicator. The original builder ordered digital trim indicator instead of the mechanical cable operated system. I have a length of wire, the stab trim device (transducer? Potentiometer? Thingy?) but I need to figure out the wiring. I have not found the actual LED indicator so I have come to the conclusion that the original builder envisioned having stab trim show up on an EFIS. My panel is still very much TBD but I'm likely to install a Ray Allen LED unit on the center console in the location intended for the mechanical indicator. I have the rocker switch which installs there and my control sticks have hat switches too. I did find a Ray Allen speed controller in my parts pile and now understand what it's for.

Before I whip out the Oratex I need to work out my ELT, COM antenna, etc. Good times.

alexM
12-04-2020, 10:17 AM
Still chipping away at fuselage details. A few nights ago I set up my stab trim jack screw per the manual, and then I had my son help me rig the elevator. Wow do I love digital protractors! We got it dialed within 0.1 degrees of the -20/+39 in no time.

Mid week I got a text from Nate, the builder/pilot of a SS7 with Aeromomentum (Suzuki car engine) power plant. He was looking for a chunk of grass nearby. I made a few suggestions and then made the mistake of looking outside. It was severe clear and cold. So I informed Nate that I had GoPro mounts on my Citabria and that I might be able to skip out of work for a two-ship flight to some grass.

26323
A quick cell phone pic while climbing out of Tacoma. McNeil Island in the foreground, Anderson beyond and Olympia in the distance.

We met by the gas pumps at 10am and went flying. I only had the time to charge one camera and if there is anything in my life that conforms to the "two is one and one is none" theory it is cameras. I forgot to turn the thing on for the leg to SHN, got quite a bit of footage of us standing by the planes talking and very little formation footage. The leg back home was perfect lighting and I stuck to his 4 O'clock for what would have been fantastic video but the SD card had filled up about the time we departed Shelton.

We arrived to a very busy pattern at Tacoma and had to do a 360 prior to entering midfield right downwind, where we landed as a two ship. Both of us agreed the whole flight was a lot of fun.

Nate is patient zero for the Aeromomentum installation and has had great support while working out the details. I don't know all of it but he is running a completely different oil cooler and radiator installation from when he first flew the plane. As you can see in the picture he still needs to create a cowl (winter project). For the curious, his rear inspection covers are not missing. He made them out of Lexan for easy preflight inspection.

Today is my day off and is also severe clear and cold. Good chance I'm going to fly instead of build.

alexM
12-12-2020, 08:17 PM
All the work Eric is doing on his Barn Find are making me feel like I'm not getting anything done. I have blown through my early December goal of having the fuselage ready (enough) to cover so I could start on my wings. Time to get a move on.

Last night I brushed the first coat of epoxy varnish on the vertical fin ribs. I read up very carefully about mixing the resin and catalyst, letting it cook (the EAA article said 45 minutes or even an hour especially if it's humid), filtering, reducing, etc.

Then, like a complete dumb ass I promptly mixed up two parts of reducer and 1 part catalyst. Gotta read those darn labels apparently. Thankfully I read someone else's post here a while back that mentioned it was basically the same as epoxy primer, and I noticed it didn't smell "hot" enough. I figured out the mistake (ie, reading is fundamental) and started over with better organization.

I had read about others finding drips when it was all done. So I started on the top rib and worked my way down, using an old towel draped across the rib under it (and therefore all the other ribs below) I varnished the underside and then the top side, then back under to mitigate pending drips. I caught several drips in the towel that way and only had a few when all was said and done.

Because it was both cold and humid I had let the catalyzed varnish cook for the full hour. I could tell towards the end that it was beginning to thicken, so next time I'll only let it cook for 45 minutes. I did get it all done while it still brushed on thin and flowed well. The EAA article says to wait two days, sand it and make the second coat. Today it was still slightly tacky in places so that's probably great advice. Rushing it would just make a sticky mess and waste sandpaper.

I forgot to mention that I removed the tail surfaces last night. It provided much better access to the rest of the ribs below the horizontal stab, and removing them was on the list anyway. I also needed to complete the body/fender work up top, at the gap between the vertical fin and the rudder.
26433
Today I took the horizontal stab and elevator out in bright sunlight on my saw horses and sanded the balsa/Superfil to transform from crude to rough shape. It was obvious it would need another layer of Smurf poo so I mixed up a small batch and slathered it on. That has to cure for a day before I can shape it. I expect it to be pretty close but not flawless at that point. The outer layer will be Hysol, and then finish sanded.

It was about that time I realized that I blew the sequence. I had put varnish on the rib which serves as the top of the access panels, but I had not yet bonded/riveted the angle which I had so carefully prepared. Since I have to sand before the next coat of varnish anyway, I'll just sand real well and bond/rivet.

I had fitted the bulkhead piece but had not yet created the angles for the forward edge or the short pieces at the lower rear corner. So today's attention was making those angles and fit/drill/cleco them.
26434
26435
Anyone who has read the manual knows that access is expected to be difficult at the forward end of the longest rib, and at the top of that bulkhead. I positioned the rivets on the bulkhead angles for best advantage when it comes time to pop those rivets.
I was pleasantly surprised to find that the bulkhead could not only be inserted with angles pre-riveted - it actually slips in place even with Clecos installed!

I realized that drilling those short angles for the aft lower corner would have been smart to do on the bench, like everything else. Well that ship sailed. To drill the holes would require a 90 degree drill, and I didn't own one. So before dinner I ran down and did the Tim Allen Binford 9000 thing and bought a Milwaukee angle drill. I checked before dinner and it will work perfectly for the job.

In the next hour or so I have a batch of aluminum parts prepped for etch and alodine. Tomorrow I should be able to sand the first coat of varnish and get all this installed.

Eric Page
12-12-2020, 08:29 PM
All the work Eric is doing on his Barn Find are making me feel like I'm not getting anything done.
Ha! Why do you think I've been working so feverishly lately? Go ahead, motivate me some more! :D

efwd
12-13-2020, 08:02 AM
You might say that this is yet another benefit of this forum. Brian and Carl were my motivators since the three of us were pretty close to one another on our builds. I had spells when I didn't get anything done and I always had those two in mind. Mike Patey would say, "Let's Get Back To Work!". I say "Damn, I haven't done S--- for awhile. I can't let them finish first".

alexM
12-13-2020, 11:22 PM
I started today by sanding the smurf poo on the tips of the tail surfaces. Then I set them aside until after I had some Hysol mixed up to smear on the surfaces. But that would be several hours away.
Next I sanded the varnished ribs to prepare them for their second coat, then went over everything a tack cloth and cleaned it well.
My youngest kid came over so I taught him to clean, etch and alodine some parts. We did the angles for the stab access cover and I threw in the lids for the seat storage compartments too.
26441
One of the loose ends (literally) I needed to take care of was the cutting of the excess rudder cables. Before I could do that I would need to revisit my swages in four locations. I had only made a single crimp before incorporating the heat shrink tubing, only to later read (in the series 7 manual) that I would need to crimp in three locations. So while #3 was timing the chemical application I cut the old heat shrink off and performed the remaining crimp operations. I was able to slide new heat shrink over the cable ends where they will be visible, and resorted to silicone "rescue tape" for the places where the right side cables splice in.
26442
The big job for the afternoon was mixing up a good size batch (80 grams) of Hysol and putting it to work. I began with the angles held in place with Clecos and rivets at hand. Syringe gravid with Hysol I started on one of the shortest angles. My very first rivet didn't pull cleanly and I struggled to even get one more in correctly. Wouldn't you know it? I could get a Cleco in the hole but couldn't get a rivet all the way through to save my life.
I burned some valuable time sorting that one out and worried that it would set the tone for every other rivet I would need to pull. Thankfully I got my rhythm down and managed to get the two shortest ones, the two longest ones fully bonded/riveted and the bare forward bulkhead bonded in place.
I had some areas in the fairing for the vertical stab that needed some gap filling and then I used the rest of it to coat the ends of the horizontal stab/elevator just as I ran out of Hysol and it starting to get thick both at the same time.
26443
A question for the gallery: Does anyone do anything to mitigate water collecting in the bottom of the fuselage in the very back? My plane will be hangared of course but it will go on trips and it will get rained on. Some of the small gaps I filled today in the vertical stab would likely have let water in and I tried to imagine its path to the tail post. Just curious what others have done.

109JB
12-14-2020, 05:30 AM
A question for the gallery: Does anyone do anything to mitigate water collecting in the bottom of the fuselage in the very back? My plane will be hangared of course but it will go on trips and it will get rained on. Some of the small gaps I filled today in the vertical stab would likely have let water in and I tried to imagine its path to the tail post. Just curious what others have done.

You mean drain grommets? The water will get in but the drain grommets will let it out

efwd
12-14-2020, 08:20 AM
I put drain holes in the lowest location I could at the bottom. I also carry duct tape in the plane. If I wash the plane or anticipate rain, I place duct tape over the spots where water can get in. I have closed off the pass through in the horizontal access panel with Food industry easy-cut strip brushes that you can get from McMaster-Carr. I have not washed the plane since I put those on so I don't really know if it really helps with keeping the water out but I suspect it does unless I put the stream from the hose directly at it.

airlina
12-14-2020, 09:57 AM
I put drain holes in the lowest location I could at the bottom. I also carry duct tape in the plane. If I wash the plane or anticipate rain, I place duct tape over the spots where water can get in. I have closed off the pass through in the horizontal access panel with Food industry easy-cut strip brushes that you can get from McMaster-Carr. I have not washed the plane since I put those on so I don't really know if it really helps with keeping the water out but I suspect it does unless I put the stream fdid you rom the hose directly at it.

Eddie , how did you attach the strip brushes to your empennage panel to close that slot ?

jiott
12-14-2020, 11:12 AM
Here's how I did it with Hysol; no rivets or screws.
264442644526446

airlina
12-14-2020, 04:22 PM
Thanks Jim, and its held up well and stayed attached I assume ? Bruce

alexM
12-14-2020, 05:06 PM
You mean drain grommets? The water will get in but the drain grommets will let it out

Well drain grommets, sure. Curious where people are locating them. But also curious about the path of water to get to the lowest point. This all occurred to me last night when I was filling up penetrations in the fiberglass fairing on the vertical fin (hinge locations for one). I realized that with the nose up attitude when parked that any water getting in would migrate to the aft end of each rib and wondered if sealing them up tight would even be a good idea.

Funny that I hadn't even considered the most obvious place water would come in until those access panels were brought up. Water will get in there for sure.

For those who are not regular shoppers at McMaster Carr, here is the link to the product that Ed used
https://www.mcmaster.com/strip-brushes/food-industry-easy-cut-strip-brushes/

I was also looking around the area where the tail wheel spring bolts on. I'm hoping at some point that my plane will end up on floats, which is one of the motivating reasons I do all this Alodine work. I appreciate the responses.

109JB
12-14-2020, 05:38 PM
If it is on floats, the tail will no longer be the lowest point as the fuselage sits level-ish on floats. In that case you will want the drain grommets on either side of the centerline stringer probably about where the seat back is. The drain grommets should be the seaplane type drain grommets as well. As for the ones at the tail, put them as far back as possible. My previous model 4 had drains just in front to the forward tailspring mount. Looking, you could probably put some on either side of the tailspring a bit further back.


As for the vertical tail ribs, there is usually enough room for any water to escape the bays and travel down the rudder post into the aft fuselage bay. I see from your pictures that you glued the ribs up completely to the fiberglass fin post structure. On my model 4 speedster the ribs are only glued to the fin tube and not the fiberglass closeout. This may trap water. If the bays are sealed that tight you should probably drill a hole at the aft end of the rib for drainage.

jiott
12-14-2020, 08:31 PM
Thanks Jim, and its held up well and stayed attached I assume ? Bruce

Yes, they have been on now for about 5 years and no sign of coming loose.

alexM
12-20-2020, 07:13 PM
Well I think I'm finally to the point I wanted to be at 3 weeks ago. My fuselage is close enough to ready for covering that I can U-haul it to my hangar and convert my one car garage to a wing factory.

I tend to get the most done on my three day weekends and this time my weekend included:
Final installation of all the tail access cover angles.
Final coat of epoxy varnish on all the wood in the tail.
My 3rd/4th pass with Hysol on the tips of all the tail surfaces, and varnishing them.
Completing the aft end of the side stringers.
Verified torque of entire control column assembly, and all points of the pitch axis flight control mechanisms. Cotter pins in place where applicable, lock nuts set and all self locking nuts showing 1-3 threads.
Yellow torque seal on all the hardware I'm done with (knock on wood)
Fabricating the rear turtle deck cross member, stripping the powder coating off of the COM antenna base plate and drilling that all up.
26543
That base plate looked like it had been used as an experiment in how not to remove powder coating, so I decided to refinish it from bare metal.

I was at the auto body shop anyway and brought home some "aircraft paint stripper". The counter guys told me to at least break the shine on the existing powder coating before spraying it on. I'm never going to know how many times you have to reapply that stuff to get good results. I'm pretty sure acetone on a rag would work faster. Being it was a single small part I broke out the 2" scotchbrite disc on my angle grinder and held a shiny steel piece a few minutes later.

I formed the 15 degree angle called out for in the manual with my redneck press brake (a vise and a rubber hammer). Man, drilling holes, deburring and installing Clecos sure makes you feel like an airplane builder. No wonder those RV guys are so proud of themselves. The manual shows rivets but not Hysol in this application, which might be the first place I've seen that in this build. I wonder about using some Hysol with micro balloons between the steel and aluminum.

Jobs needed before it's really ready for covering are down to:
Belly stringer. It is cut, alodined and ready to install
Cotter pins on rudder cable pulleys
ELT decision/purchase/installation
Run the power wires for the stab trim jackscrew
Install the stab trim sensor and run wires forward
Header tank installation
Rigging of flaperon controls will have to wait until the wings are built.

I'm still torn on the COM antenna. I would really like to bury as many antennas inside the plane as possible. Obviously I'm still hedging my bets by installing the antenna base.

Baggage compartment floor. I was momentarily stoked when I found sheets of end core balsa core in my hangar. All I had before that was the cardboard template made by the previous owner. I've got lots of hands on composite experience along with a chunk of my career in composite design and tooling. I could laminate this panel and I might still for practice, but I'll be calling Kitfox tomorrow to see about getting one on the way.

In spite of the list above, there is no reason I can't switch to wing building mode. Getting those built to the same stage as my junk wings (no tanks or inner ribs) will allow me to get past that critical milestone of having the wings mounted.

And then it will start to look like an airplane.

jiott
12-20-2020, 08:26 PM
There is an automotive gasket remover, Loctite I think, that easily removes powder coat. Maybe someone will post the actual brand/part #. Several of us have used it years ago and it worked real well.

bumsteer
12-21-2020, 07:05 AM
Permatex gasket remover is what I have used.

Rick

alexM
12-21-2020, 12:44 PM
There is an automotive gasket remover, Loctite I think, that easily removes powder coat. Maybe someone will post the actual brand/part #. Several of us have used it years ago and it worked real well.

Agh! I even had that stuff book marked. I should pick up a can and have it ready for next time.

alexM
12-25-2020, 12:22 PM
I've got a 17' truck booked for tomorrow to move my fuselage to the hangar. I'll clean up my garage and get my saw horses that I made last summer rigged plumb and bonded to the floor of my garage. A while back I bought a Leica digital tape measure to make that job easier. Then I'm a wing factory until further notice.

Well, as Bryan Bowen says on occasion: "It's time to take a break and go flying". I have been watching for a VFR weather window to fly to Spokane. Crossing the Cascades in late December (even IFR) is something you can't plan on. It looked like yesterday might be it, and a call to Flight Service confirmed that ceilings would be FL220 all day. Winds were forecast to be 20-30 knots out of the SW.

It was foggy at my home airport but forecast was to burn off around 11am and for once that was accurate. I was gassed up and had some gifts in the plane for #2 son. I talked #3 into going along.
26577
26578
Those familiar with Deer Park will notice that I'm at Mead here. Like I said, logistical issues.

The crab angle was quite noticeable over the Cascades but so was the 127 knot ground speed (my climb speed from Enumclaw at 3000' to 9500' was 80mph) so that was quite a shove. I normally expect it to be a bumpy ride with that kind of wind but it was super smooth. The push from behind continued the entire way and we landed at Deer Park in 1 hour 57 minutes. Not bad for a slow airplane. Some logistical issues coordinating with #2 wasted some time and we were only able to visit for about ten minutes.
I watched the dwindling sunlight and wasn't really stoked about flying over the Cascades at night (piston single, dead of winter, unforgiving mountainous terrain, etc). I have flown westbound before and got to experience two sunsets. One seen by people living on the east side, and another once you cross the summit. Well that was in a Mooney 201 and it wasn't bucking a 30 knot headwind. Our ground speed hovered between 65 and 75 knots. It was quite dark and we were still 35 miles east of Ephrata when #3 announced that he had to pee and wouldn't make it all the way home. I had been considering fuel since I had been running "rental power" to help battle the headwind. A stop seemed in order.

I considered landing at Wenatchee but it's down in a pocket at the foot of the mountains, and getting my 8500' back would be a chore. Ephrata is quite familiar to me so I informed ATC of my intentions to make a pit stop at EPH. They had me keep my squawk code and report back in the air. I topped off the tanks while #3 shed some ballast. Not even 10 minutes and I was informing ATC I was climbing out.

We were the only GA plane I heard all evening and the only piston plane for sure. The closest companion was a Caravan hauling rubber dog crap. I dialed up the synthetic vision on my Dynon D3, a feature I normally shun. The rocks below were dark and the only bare white spots were either lakes or power line easements. I shifted course to take us up the valley that contains Ellensburg, Cle Elum etc. I would still need to cross some dark rocks with no options but at least I would be reducing risk somewhat. Meanwhile the O-320 never missed a beat, running better than ever with freshly overhauled mags. When I neared the summit where I normally take Stampede Pass I stayed to the north where I-90 would remain visible.

This time it was bumpy but not bad. Again, the plane is plenty strong. As long as I didn't get into a severe down draft it was looking good, and I'm a competent mountain flyer so I knew how to pick my path. From around Ellensburg I kept it climbing at a super shallow rate and I crossed the summit at 10,500-ish. My biggest concern wasn't the headwind or the bumps, it was the temp/dew point spread. From the summit I could see all the way home and the forecast said it would hold. It did. I would swear I woke up the tower controller at home. Landed at 7:01pm. It had taken longer to get from Ephrata to home than it did to make the entire trip eastbound. About 6 hours on the Hobbs for the day.

Eric Page
12-25-2020, 04:10 PM
Cool trip, Alex. Brings back some good memories. My first solo was at a Civil Air Patrol encampment in 1988, in Ephrata. While I was learning to fly I had two friends in school at WSU, so I made regular trips over there in the fall and spring. One afternoon I took off from Ellensburg to return to Auburn and found that the clouds had descended over the Cascades long before forecast, so I had to turn around and go back. Sat shivering in the plane for nearly two hours, waiting for two instructors to show up in a 172RG to rescue me and my rented 152. It worked out; I got to fly the RG home as a reward for making the right decision (and I only had to pay for the time on the 152!). Good times...

alexM
12-26-2020, 05:33 PM
Here's the video from the flight eastbound.

https://youtu.be/EyWwD8j9Ii4

In other news, I moved the fuselage to my hangar today. What a s*** show that was. I know someone probably needs a good laugh, so here you go:

Lesson number 1, the horizontal stab is wider than my garage door. I was able to lift one gear leg while my youngest son herded the tail through the opening.

Lesson number 2, the horizontal stab is WAY wider than a U-haul truck. Of course it was raining and windy while I pulled the tail off the plane. I decided to leave the rudder hung because I would have plenty of room and it didn't interfere with removing the stab/elevator.

Lesson number 3, a 17' U-haul will not accept a 14' airplane. The cab over portion is apparently included in their overall length calculation. Feeling somewhat defeated and a bit stupid I doubled down. We hiked the main wheels up on the rear bumper of the truck and I tied the fuselage in place solidly (one thing I do know how to do). The 15 mile trip in nasty weather was made with the rear door open. Didn't lose so much as a chunk of pool noodle, and thankfully didn't lose the dead blow hammer I left near the door in back either (facepalm).

Once at my hangar I pulled the Citabria out. At least I knew the fuselage on gear would fit in the same exact location I had it before bringing it home, and it did. I got to see first hand how fast a piece of 4130 chrome moly will rust. It was quite visible on my unpainted COM antenna platform even after 15 minutes of fresh rain. It's just Cleco'd in place so I will make quick work of cleaning it up. I've got primer ready to go.

26589
All tucked in with plenty of room to spare [cough].

Today I'll be cleaning up my garage and starting on my wings. Step one, situate the saw horses.

alexM
12-29-2020, 03:07 PM
After editing my last video in the Citabria I took the plunge and created a channel just for my Kitfox build. I'm working on the wings and doing some filming of that, which will eventually become the second video.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=voZ70XeNHOA

I'm way out of my comfort zone public speaking or being in front of a camera which is probably obvious. Good to push ourselves sometimes I guess.

14 pages on this forum summed up in not quite 15 minutes of video.

Eric Page
12-29-2020, 05:23 PM
Sweet, I'm your first subscriber. Enjoyed the video!

jrevens
12-29-2020, 11:22 PM
I enjoyed your video... good job, Alex!

airlina
12-30-2020, 04:12 AM
Alex , as a Series 5 builder from the same vintage , your video was interesting to me, as you discussed the differences from now to then . Your project looks good , keep the videos coming. Bruce N199CL

efwd
12-30-2020, 08:18 AM
Very Nice Alex. Looking forward to the engine part in particular. I want a Radial. I might go there if they change the LSA rules. Nothing sexier on the Kitfox line up than a Radial. And then there is the sound.

alexM
12-31-2020, 09:38 PM
I appreciated the feedback, thanks.

I put my deposit down for my Verner engine a while ago and have an expected delivery of July. There are some options which I included in my build. The bone stock form has single spark plug per cylinder. Now, it's electronic ignition with an individual coil on each plug so you could interpret that failure of a single plug is better than losing a mag (and losing 1 of 7 cylinders is less problematic than losing 1 of 4). Still makes my blood run cold, so I'm springing for the dual spark, dual ignition system. Haven't thought twice about that choice.

The website shows three induction options. Carb with no mixture, a Marv Schebler and EFI. When I was pestering one of the two US importers of the Verner radial he told me that, for the time being, they aren't doing the EFI. I don't hate carbs but just like twin sparks I like me some mixture control where possible. Seems, I don't know, normal.

From what I understand there isn't an issue with the EFI as much as the end users who don't know jack about fuel mapping and decide to try it anyway. Such pretty colors am I right? I can imagine the tech support could get exhaustive. I opted for the Marv Schebler, however the importer and I connected pretty well (we both do long distance motorcycle trips and appreciate internal combustion engines). I've been thinking recently about asking him if they would make an exception if someone was familiar with writing fuel maps and logging engine runs, but for the time being I am expecting a Marv Schebler carb.

Regarding the two carb options, it's no surprise many of these engines are finding their way onto WW I replica aircraft, and as such operate in the lower flight levels. Off hand I don't recall the exact reference in the specs but the non-mixture carb option is said to operate well up to around 6500'. I'm not a hardcore mountain flyer but I do mountain fly and I do expose my plane to higher density altitudes than that.

alexM
12-31-2020, 10:39 PM
26646
I cleaned up the shop (mostly) and set out my sawhorses two days ago. My digital tape measure and digital level came in handy for setting up the wing fixture. I fixed one to the garage floor with Bondo and once it kicked off I got the second one leveled, oriented by the book and also fixed to the floor with Bondo. Yesterday morning I checked all the measurements again and they were spot on. Both sawhorses were level, my 156" dimension was not even out 1/32" and the diagonal was within 1/32" out. For some repurposed studs I'm pretty happy with it.
26649
With that all checked I cut some lumber for the index blocks which attach to the saw horses and the 1/2" pieces which serve to stagger the spars at the inboard rear end and to set the washout. By afternoon I was removing screws from the spar crate. I tested out my fixture and then got busy with a scotchbrite pad cleaning up the outside of the tubes. It was one of those nights where you are about ready to shut off the lights and decide to see what kind of effort it will take to prep the spar inserts, and next thing you know it's 1am and they're done.
26648
During an afternoon break I went to the local building supply place and bought 14' of 3" PVC pipe (had to buy a 10' and 4' piece), a coupler and two end caps. Armed with knowledge of the "tennis ball trick" I included a big pet store in my errands. I thought it would be great to find some smooth rubber balls instead of tennis balls, and fully expected to strike the mother load. I was to be disappointed however, and the best I could do was some overpriced tennis balls.

Around dinner time I slapped more Bondo on the feet of both sawhorses and used some PVC pipe adhesive to bond the coupler and one end cap in place. Then I vacated the shop while all the fumes cleared out.

26647
Today I explored the tennis ball thing. I wanted to slosh the inside of the tubes with acetone. The balls leaked pretty badly and acetone will just laugh at any attempts to tape it. I just lived with the leaks and had a big tub at each end to catch the leaking acetone, which I filtered and used for the initial sluice of the next tube and fresh acetone for the second. I retrospect I should have started by cleaning up the insides of the tubes because I had cleaned them externally to a beautiful uniform appearance.

Once all four spars were cleaned inside I mixed up a big batch of my Henkel Bonderite etch solution. One at a time I etched the spars, and two at a time I etched the inserts in my big PVC tube, sloshing continuously for 4 minute cycles.

The inserts were the last thing etched and the first things I ran through the Alodine process. They came out looking pretty nice. The spars came out splotchier than most parts that I have Alodined. Until this job I have been able to run them directly from etch to rinse to Alodine without drying the parts. The instructions say that if you don't dry them they might not be uniform. Working alone and needing to get all the way through etching all the parts before I could Alodine them made the job challenging. And lest anyone think they're splotchy or terrible they look fine, just not perfect. They didn't pick up quite as much color as usual but again, no real impact on the treatment process.

The lack of uniformity has no impact, and I'm used to seeing parts like this. They were treated with etch and Alodine so the job is done. I was pretty worn out by the time I cleaned up. Actual hands on time (not including the tennis ball acetone task) was about 2.5 hours. Damn glad I'm not building a biplane.

Tomorrow I'll start the process of sliding the inserts into the spars.

Freedom2
01-01-2021, 07:42 PM
Alex, Good job on your video!!! enjoyed it!! I'm just curious what your thinking for some final weight numbers of the Verner with accessories added? (approx)

alexM
01-01-2021, 10:23 PM
Thank you.

It's been a while since I looked at the exact weight but, comparably configured, it weighs somewhere between a Rotax 912 and 914. And I have read recently that the 912iS weighs 30 pounds more than a 912ULS (straight from the interwebs with no reference to back it up, so take that for what it's worth).

The CG of the Verner will also be closer to the firewall so at this point I'm not worried about overall weight or CG. After scouring threads from the heavy engine crowd I see no reason to sweep my wings forward 1 degree. This engine is much lighter than the other popular radial available. The Verner is direct drive and uses a magnesium crank case, which accounts for the weight difference.

Anyway with the hp and torque figures I should have better performance than a 912ULS with no significant loss of useful load, no CG issues and a fuel burn not remarkably worse.

An amusing thing about the engine straight from the installation manual: Engine preheat not required down to -5C.

Considering the part of the world the engine comes from that shouldn't be a complete surprise.

alexM
01-01-2021, 10:53 PM
I only had part of today to work on the wings, but next up on the list was a step that has been looming for a while: Getting the spar inserts into the spars.

I followed the directions in the manual where it says to chamfer and deburr the tip end of the spars. With everything theoretically ready I gave a sigh and went about sliding the first insert into the tube. And it didn't want to go in. The manual is very clear that you do not force this. I grabbed some wood and all the big clamps I own and put some squeeze on the tube but it didn't improve things enough.

So I pulled the insert back out, cleaned everything up and took a break. I used the search tool to find threads on dealing with the inserts and I read both the series 5 and 7 manuals. I triple checked my surface finish, deburring job and then I used a clean rag on a long string to drag through the inside of the spars to get any possible. I ended up using my Kitfox supplied Scotch brite pad to make a a few passes over the surfaces that would contact the inside of the spars, cleaned everything REALLY well with fresh acetone rags, then lubed up the contact surfaces just a bit. That whacks my ability to slosh some epoxy in here later but the Alodine was still largely intact and the lube

The result was an insert that slid into the spar without fighting me. Finger pressure only, and a pusher stick with a mark for when the insert would be 70" from the root end and 32" from the tip end.

For spars 2 and 3 I went straight to the debur check, acetone rag pulled through the inside, then a light lube and they went in no problem. Spar 4 started out the same as the 1st spar so I pulled it right back out. I ended up needing to use the Scotch brite pad again, followed by another super cleaning and light lube. It went in on the second try.

Tomorrow I'm hoping to lay out the strut attach fittings. This part has been renting space in my head since the beginning. Seems like something that could be done wrong, so it's time to get careful and RTFM.

Freedom2
01-02-2021, 08:28 AM
Interesting, looking at pics at previous installs it actually doesn't look like alot of accessories to be added compared to other engines. I'm assuming this engine was not a radial option at the time kitfox provided a fwf package for the Rotec as it seems like a better prospect especially for weight! I'm still on the fence of which engine to go with in my IV. Trying to find that happy medium between power to weight ratio. I'm excited to eventually see your install as there is nothing like a radial! https://teamkitfox.com/Forums/images/icons/icon7.png

jiott
01-02-2021, 11:10 AM
Your procedure for getting the inserts into the spar pretty much mirrored what I had to do. I was having trouble and called the factory; they recommended thorough cleaning/deburring, slightly pinching the spar to an oval shape and using baby oil as a lube. I had already done the other things, but the baby oil was the final solution. I also wanted to slosh epoxy primer inside, so I first sloshed acetone to dissolve the baby oil, then sloshed the primer-seemed to work well. I would recommend you do this two step sloshing BEFORE you glue the spars and wing ribs-much easier.

alexM
01-05-2021, 04:44 PM
Your procedure for getting the inserts into the spar pretty much mirrored what I had to do. I was having trouble and called the factory; they recommended thorough cleaning/deburring, slightly pinching the spar to an oval shape and using baby oil as a lube. I had already done the other things, but the baby oil was the final solution. I also wanted to slosh epoxy primer inside, so I first sloshed acetone to dissolve the baby oil, then sloshed the primer-seemed to work well. I would recommend you do this two step sloshing BEFORE you glue the spars and wing ribs-much easier.
Great advice, thanks. That would be quite a show sloshing an entire wing around.

So far I have the inserts in all four spars, one pair of them have the 4 rivets (2 top and 2 bottom) near the center of the hole pattern and my left front spar is fully riveted - except the area under the lift strut attach fitting of course.

Heading back out to the garage now to get through the left rear spar.

alexM
01-06-2021, 09:21 PM
At this point I've drilled and riveted the spar extrusions for one wing and set them aside. Tonight I started on the other pair of spars, which already have the inserts in place. The second set seems to be going quicker because I've got some practice. Before dinner I had them clamped into place with the shear web of the extrusions vertical, rubbed my 4' scale to mark the center line and laid out my staggered 2" hole pattern on what will be the bottom side of the second wing.

I captured some of the first set of spars in my second video:

https://youtu.be/OzCdWmI26cY


If videos aren't your thing that's fine. Short version: The manual has you lay out lines which are 19/32" from the line you made on top of the spars. It includes a tolerance of +/- 1/32, which in my book rounds down to 9/16". Next you lay out a staggered 2" hole pattern on those offset lines.
When you look inside the spar you'll see there isn't a ton of edge margin there. Wow it would suck to drill into the spar/insert and have it at the edge of that extrusion, right? So staying to the low end of the tolerance just seems like a great idea.

Sticking to the 9/16" dimension has a free bonus. The forward strut attach fitting is supposed to roll towards the trailing edge and the manual wants you to temporarily put the forward strut attach by aligning the witness hole in the strut fitting on a 9/16" line to accomplish this. Well I've already gone one, so I'm good to go.

This won't be news to any of you who have already built their planes but for the newcomer, the strut attach fittings are put in their future location so you can trace around them and then NOT drill the holes in the 2" staggered pattern where it passes under the strut attach fittings. There will be plenty of holes drilled into the spar/insert later.

Starting with two holes on top and two holes on the bottom you debur, then rivet the holes with 1/8x1/4" SS rivets. Once the center of the insert is locked in place you clamp the tube to keep the insert located and to minimize chips building up between the surface between the inner wall of the tube and the outer face of the insert.

Keep at it and you'll soon be looking at something like this:
26716


I shined a light into the inside of both riveted spars and saw that the edge margins are just fine.

alexM
01-13-2021, 05:57 PM
A brief update.

A few days ago I completed drilling and riveting of all four spars. No foul language and no extra holes. I didn't make an exact count but it's very close to 200 rivets by the time you complete top and bottom of all four spars. My Milwaukee 12V rivet gun has worked flawlessly, so I have no wrist cramps to complain about. I didn't even need to swap batteries on the rivet gun.

I immediately began setting up my sawhorse wing fixture and incorporating both 1/2" spacers, then got out my ribs.

I still haven't sloshed the spars to get out the chips or the lube used to get the inserts in place but that didn't stop me from sliding a few ribs into place so I could see how they fit. Right away I learned the rivets in the rear spar won't slide over all those rivets. I will need to file two small notches inside the hole in the rib where the rear spars go, so they can slide into place in over the riveted sections.

I've done some internet searching and found some smooth rubber balls which should have much better gap sealing properties than the tennis balls I used when I cleaned/etched/Alodined all the pieces recently. Once those arrive I'll get the spars cleaned out and make up my mind about sloshed with epoxy.

In the meantime I've got a bunch of ribs that need inspecting and sanding.

jrevens
01-13-2021, 06:35 PM
Alex,

The ball idea sounds good & will probably be better than a fuzzy tennis ball for sure. I started out trying to use balls and found that sealing the ends with plastic wrap and rubber bands worked better.

alexM
01-15-2021, 10:50 PM
I took advantage of a clear bit of weather and flew today, so I only put in a couple of hours of build time.

26874
When I got home my smooth rubber balls still hadn't been delivered so I decided to start sanding on my ribs. Man that is going to be an investment of time. I took most of an hour creating a rib shaped mandrel from some 2" pink foam. I figure it would offer the best support of the raw ribs for sanding and avoid any damage to the cap strips.

It's a simple 2D shape so you sand it as shown, then flip the pink foam over and put the rib back on so you can sand everything from the other side. The inside is too small to run my 5" random orbit sander and the area between the rear spar tube and the trailing edge isn't even a candidate for a detail sander (multi tool). I used a rubber "taco" purchased at the auto body place and some 220 paper and found it doesn't really reach well behind the rear spar either. I probably spent 20-30 minutes on one rib and don't consider it done.

The smooth rubber balls finally turned up about 9pm and while they're slightly larger than the ideal diameter they seem to fit pretty tight. I'll try them with some acetone tomorrow.

alexM
01-17-2021, 10:13 PM
Well the smooth rubber balls showed up. I went straight out to the garage and tried them out, and they fit pretty tightly into the spar ends. While waiting for the balls to show up I should have been sanding ribs, but I under estimated the challenges of sanding the bare ribs.


When I did my vertical fin ribs I slapped a 5" 220 disc on my random orbit sander and made beautiful parts in minutes. Well those are flat 2D shapes and ideally suited for that method.
Once I finally wrapped my head around not being able to use any form of power tool I made 3 different sanding blocks out of 2" pink foam and used some self adhesive 220 discs cut to shape, along with one rubber "taco" sander.
26905
I did four ribs earlier and hope to knock out four more (enough to begin one wing) by the end of the evening. I'll press through the ribs for the other wing while reading up on spar layout.

The slosh
Prior to beginning my work today I was thinking about doing the epoxy slosh in my spars when I realized I was no where near done drilling holes and riveting. The lift strut attach fittings have 42-ish rivets per spar, and there's the drag/anti drag link fittings several more. Ideally I would wait until those rivets had been pulled so those penetrations were epoxy coated as well.

On top of that, if I were to slosh them I would be wise to mask off where the steel doublers at the wing root attach fitting bond in with Hysol.

As much as I liked (user jiott) Jim's suggestion of sloshing now, I'm now in the camp of sloshing the wing after the strut attach fittings and inboard steel doublers are installed.


https://youtu.be/gElS25CwGWA

jiott
01-18-2021, 12:12 PM
I sloshed AFTER the strut fittings were fully attached. What I was trying to say in my post was to slosh before the spars were attached to any ribs or braces.

alexM
01-18-2021, 02:23 PM
Well now I'm even more confused. Don't the ribs have to be bonded on so I can mount the wings and drill up the strut attach fittings?

I guess I need to RTFM a bit further out.

jiott
01-18-2021, 09:26 PM
You're right Alex; I had a brain fart. The strut fittings were not attached when I sloshed, just the internal I-beams.
Why would the strut fitting rivet ends need epoxy-they are SS. The holes thru the aluminum spar get squeezed with Hysol so they are pretty well sealed up.

alexM
01-30-2021, 11:15 PM
My wing build is underway. I marked up my spars for the ribs 1 and 3-10, made my marks 1/8" on both sides of those marks, notched the holes in the ribs where the rear spar carries through for ribs 5-8 and got all the ribs lined up and in position.

My kitfox order came with my new drag/anti drag weldments and tubes (plus the newer style flaperon hinges and doublers), trailing edge material and some other bits. My baggage compartment floor is on back order, but no rush there.
27070
Today I did the layout for the drag/anti drag pieces. I thought this part would take at least a week but once I had all the pieces clamped in place with zipties it was about 2 hours until I had all 36 holes drilled to attach the weldments to the spars. I took everything apart and deburred, then reasembled everything.
27071
I still need to layout and drill 5 holes at each location where the aluminum tube slips over the weldment.

alexM
02-12-2021, 09:45 AM
Starting with the fitting near rib #3 I drilled one hole for each fitting/tube intersection out to rib #9, then started back at rib #3 to add a second hole. With Clecos in all the holes the entire structure was solidly locked in place.

There are five holes required at each fitting/tube intersection, which was going to make it challenging to allow for drill & rivet gun access but because they were so well locked in I realized I could pull it all apart and drill the other three holes on my bench. I only drilled one extra hole.

Then my plan became more clear. I would be able to bond/rivet a fitting in one end of each drag/anti drag tube, slide it through the slot in ribs 4, 6 and 8, then bond/rivet the other fittings.

With all the holes drilled I deburred everything, carefully identifying each fitting and tube for where it went. I did my usual scotchbrite, acetone, etch and Alodine for each of the three aluminum tubes. Next I hit the Cad plating on the steel fittings with a coarse 2" scotchbrite disc just enough to get a good bonding surface.

Next I mixed up 10 grams of Hysol, stirred in some micro balloons to help the steel to aluminum interface issue and got all six fittings bonded & riveted to the tubes. I Cleco'd everything back to the spars mostly as a sanity check that my plan was working. Everything looked great.
27242
27243
My strategy now is to shuffle ribs back and forth while bonding/riveting the fittings to the spars. Where I thought I would have to bond all the ribs and fittings at the same time it is now clear to me that the only ribs I must bond in place are ribs #5 and #7, because they are trapped between a pair of fittings. I need to leave ribs #4, 6 and 8 floating where the tubes pass through so I can do this. Ribs #3, 9 and 10 are a slam dunk at any time after ribs #5 and 7.

Eric Page
02-12-2021, 11:48 AM
Wow, those are already looking like wings. Keep chugging along, and you'll have two wing skeletons cluttering up your shop before you know it!

alexM
02-13-2021, 09:56 AM
27252
27253
Successfully riveted and bonded the drag/anti drag fittings and ribs #5 and 7 last night. Those two ribs are bonded just well enough to hold them so I can fillet around them when my Hysol mixing gun shows up on Tuesday.

Not sure if the adhesive will be cured or frozen today but the hard part of installing the ribs is behind me.

alexM
02-13-2021, 02:45 PM
I received my baggage compartment floor last night. I'm still waiting for my aluminum tube wing stringers which were shipped a week prior via truck. Those were supposed to arrive 3 days ago but now with snow on the ground, who knows when I'll see them (Not Kitfox's fault, just how shipping goes on a 13' long package).

Couldn't help but notice that baggage compartment floor is, uh, substantial. Threw it on my scale and it is 4 lb 8 ounces. Seems overkill for what I'm likely to haul back there.

jrevens
02-13-2021, 03:53 PM
...

Couldn't help but notice that baggage compartment floor is, uh, substantial. Threw it on my scale and it is 4 lb 8 ounces. Seems overkill for what I'm likely to haul back there.


Part of the designed 150 lb. structural load limit. You might want to wrap a teenager up and throw it back there some time (or a spare engine), you never know! ;)

airlina
02-13-2021, 04:01 PM
Lets say you have 100 Lbs back there and get into some 2-3 G turbulence , that baggage just went to 200-300 lbs and theres lots of important stuff under that floor to protect. Bruce N199CL

PapuaPilot
02-13-2021, 09:47 PM
Lets say you have 100 Lbs back there and get into some 2-3 G turbulence , that baggage just went to 200-300 lbs and theres lots of important stuff under that floor to protect. Bruce N199CL

That's exactly right. The Kitfox was designed to meet Part 23 certification standards, even though they never pursued production. That means that the baggage floor would have to hold up to 3.8 Gs. For 150# of baggage the floor has to withstand a 570# load without failure. If it needs the 50% safety factor like airframes then it would be 5.1 Gs (855# loading).

alexM
02-14-2021, 11:00 AM
Fair enough. I had forgotten the Kitfox baggage compartment is rated to 150 lbs. I'm used to my Citabria with a thin plywood floor and 50 lb limit, which would of course be a completely different set of numbers.

With the baggage floor being so stout I'm now considering mounting my ELT to the bottom side (if possible).

Anyone hate that idea? Seems like it will be easy to pull out for condition inspections.

Here's my latest video of the slow build wings:

https://youtu.be/i9kzB5zAeAs

alexM
02-18-2021, 09:14 AM
My slow build wings continue. I had to take a few days to visit with one of my sons which was fine because I was waiting for some package deliveries. The shipment I had waited the longest for was my .375" aluminum wing stringer tubes. I had attempted to source those locally at Metal Supermarkets, where I got my fuselage stringers for around $100.

When I put in a parts order with Kitfox, Heather suggested I pick these up locally too in order to avoid the huge shipping costs, but my quote from Metal Supermarkets was $709! Seems I would have been paying quite a chunk for shipping no matter what choice I made, so I went back to Kitfox. Heather's first quote was around $400 delivered but after I approved the quote she found another shipper that would get them here for closer to $300. As they say, "shut up and take my money". $400 would have justified me marathon driving to Idaho to pick them up. Had I known I was driving to Spokane anyway I would have had them hold them for me for sure, but that's all behind me now.

Well the truck delivery took two weeks. I wasn't concerned because I wasn't dead in the water waiting for the wing stringers. I made my trip to Spokane during a winter storm which closed the mountain pass several times. On Monday I got a call from a different trucking company than the one that picked up the package in Idaho to arrange delivery for Wednesday. My only appointment Wednesday was to get tires put on my car, so of course while that was the one hour window when the delivery truck came to my house.

I got a call from the driver who asked if someone was home. My better half was home but was "zoomed" into a court hearing as part of her job. I didn't have much choice but to tell the driver it was okay to leave it on my porch, but knowing about the risks of shipping I asked the driver if the package was damaged. He hesitated slightly and said "no".
27301
So I get home to this banana on my porch, and had that sinking feeling that I would be going a couple of rounds with the trucking company. Thankfully the 3/8" tubes are pretty floppy in their full length state and were not damaged at all.
27302
And last night my Hysol mixing gun showed up, with tips and several tubes of Hysol. I'm still not as cool as Eric but at least I can spread glue like he can now. Tonight I'll heat up my garage and get to fixating the rest of the ribs on my left wing.

Jerrytex
02-18-2021, 04:15 PM
I feel your shipping pain. Flapperons shipped from Idaho to central Texas was very pricey. Heather also found me the "best" rate but it still hurt. I have found that shipping is a huge variable and a significant added cost when taking on a project like this.

alexM
02-18-2021, 05:16 PM
When I was at the stage of waving money around for a build project the Rans S-20 was on my short list along side the Kitfox. Shipping costs were the reason I crossed the Rans off, and that's just the difference between Idaho and Colorado.

jrevens
02-18-2021, 05:26 PM
When I was at the stage of waving money around for a build project the Rans S-20 was on my short list along side the Kitfox. Shipping costs were the reason I crossed the Rans off, and that's just the difference between Idaho and Colorado.

RANS is in Kansas...

alexM
02-18-2021, 06:25 PM
RANS is in Kansas...
Ha! Shows what I know. Slightly worse then.

Eric Page
02-19-2021, 10:02 AM
I'm still not as cool as Eric...
BWAAA HA HA HA!! Now that's funny right there!

alexM
02-27-2021, 09:31 PM
As of tonight ribs 3-9 are bonded in place. I'll get rib #10 done early tomorrow and the basic framing of my left wing will be complete. I'm doing my best to keep the garage warm and I'll give it a full 48 hours before I hang it on my wall and start on the right wing.

I anticipate that the right wing will go much faster than the left since I won't need to stare at it for hours working out my layout/cleaning/clamping/bonding strategy.

I could use a favor from anyone who has purchased quick build wings from the factory, and that is to see if you can post a picture or good description of the Hysol fillets at the rib/spar intersection.

I've seen some pretty large fillets and I don't know if that is necessary, because if you look at the built up ribs there is just enough adhesive used there to do the job. No golf ball sized fillets holding the cap strips to the ribs, so how much is really needed to secure the ribs to the spars?

Tongue depressor, popsicle stick, chop stick or what? I know some of you used your finger, which puts varies depending on your digits. Just wondering what the factory wings look like.
27469

In my case I used my new Hysol mixing gun to lay a bead on the spar. Then I slid the rib in place and rubbed it back and forth a bit to make sure to get good contact, then clamped the ribs as precisely as possible. I let that kick off and then came back with the Hysol gun and spread about an 1/8" bead all around each side.

As I feared from the beginning, the instructions have a flaw. After laying out the rib spacing on the spar, the 1/8" offset lines etc with a sharpie pen, you use a scotchbrite pad and denatured alcohol to prep the area before bonding. Then you get adhesive smeared over what is left of those lines and guess what you can see? Not much!

The front spar isn't bad because the rib only goes part way around. But for the rear spar I would need some kind of reference system. So I used my newly acquired 3/8" aluminum stringer tubes, and a random strip of wood I ripped off the edge of a fir board for a house project to create an alignment system.

I set three of the 3/8" stringer tubes next to each other and created a series of thin sharpie marks at 17.75" intervals to match the manual for rib spacing. I also carefully made marks at the same spacing on the strip of wood.

I slid two of the stringers into the wing where they'll eventually live, and clamped them to ribs #5 and #7 (which I bonded to the spars when I did my drag/anti drag tubes) at the trailing edge. I clamped the 3rd tube to those same ribs at the trailing edge tip, which gave me a great index at the trailing edge to assure proper spacing.
27470
I clamped the strip of wood to the lower cap strips so the marks would also line up with 5 and 7, and it turned out to be super helpful at keeping the ribs vertical.
27471
Once this cures the stringer tubes will be pulled out. I'll use the same exact tubes for the right wing, then I'll scotchbrite/etch/alodine them before reintroducing them to the wing structure.

In other news I sold my Citabria last Sunday
There's the old saying about the two happiest days of airplane ownership, but my first day was trepidation about jumping into aircraft ownership and the day I sold it I felt as if I were betraying a friend. It is a great aircraft that never gave me a bit of trouble and had performance which always left me smiling.

I posted it on Barnstormer's on a Friday night. My phone started blowing up on Saturday morning. The first person I responded to was from Bozeman, MT. He and his buddy were climbing in a rental car to come get it. The second call I returned was to a guy much more local. I wasn't going to sell the plane out from under the guys driving from Montana so I told him he could come see it, but he would have to wait until they'd had a chance to look at it.

The local guy and his wife did come to see it Saturday. He looked at the logs and we took a couple of laps in the pattern in some very gusty crosswinds. He went off to consult mechanics but he liked the plane. The guys from Bozeman showed up at 7:30am Sunday. We looked over the plane, the logs and the weather. Ceilings were a joke. The wind was just as bad as the day before (16G22) but at least they were mostly down the runway.

The plane was sold when we landed, and I don't mean to the insurance company. We did up paperwork and I got paid.

They had plans to drop off the rental car and fly it home, but here in Western Washington it's mother nature who gets the last laugh in February. They stayed another day waiting for improving conditions. I told them they could leave the plane in my hangar until the end of March, which should give them time to watch for a weather window and ferry the plane to Bozeman.

Like I said, I'll miss the plane. But I need the hangar space to rig my wings, do at least some of the covering and of course to park my Kitfox when it is done. It also puts some cash back in the bank for my panel, prop, etc.
27472

Eric Page
02-28-2021, 12:10 AM
Clever bit of outside-the-box thinking on using the stringers to set spacing for your ribs. I bet you'll have two completed wings within 2 or 3 weeks.

Condolences on selling your Citabria!

alexM
03-01-2021, 09:54 AM
I achieved what I think is a milestone last night when I bonded rib #10 in place and also "tacked" the drag/anti-drag tubes to the ribs they pass through. I'm now able to pull the left wing off my fixture and start on the right wing.

alexM
03-03-2021, 10:20 PM
I'm now booked to fly at Stick and Rudder on March 21,22. I'll be flying a standard wing plane powered by a 912iS big bore. It looks like I'm able to show up on the afternoon of the 20th and get some ground work out of the way. Two full-ish days of flying should be fun.

I've got my hotel booked. The drive should be no problem. I'm pumped.

My Citabria flew away today so my Kitfox took it's spot in the middle of the hangar.

alexM
03-07-2021, 10:44 PM
27583
I finished sanding the ribs for the right wing. Today I made the rivet notches for ribs 5-8 and got all ribs 3-9 on the spars. I made sure everything was tight to the fixture and clamped everything in place. Then I deburred all the steel fittings for the drag/anti-drag tubes and next thing I knew I had a drill in my hand.

I didn't even work hard and by 4:30 in the afternoon I had all the holes for the drag/anti-drag pieces drilled. Amazing how fast it goes with a little practice.

Eric Page
03-08-2021, 09:50 AM
The work you're getting done and the speed at which you're doing it, in that small space, is really impressive. I'm constantly tripping over things and reorganizing in a 23' x 23' 2-car garage!

alexM
03-13-2021, 04:13 PM
I didn't get any work done on my wings during the week but I did get my exhaust system.
27660
27661
I'm quite happy with the quality of it so far.

Yesterday I did the etch and Alodine for my right wing drag/anti-drag tubes and the long 3/8" stringers for the wings.

Today I got a decent build session in and managed to get my drag/anti-drag tubes completely riveted and bonded to the spars, along with ribs 5 and 7 of course. Unlike the left wing, this time I did it all in one shot. It's curing right now so I'll let that ride for at least a day before I do ribs 6, 4, 8, 9, 3 (in that order) and then do 10 later in the week.

One week from today I'll be at Stick & Rudder. Super pumped about that. Weather permitting I'll be doing a sunrise flight on the morning of the 23rd, which is bonus flying. And that afternoon I've arranged for a tour of the Kitfox factory.

I'm arriving on the 19th and have some time to kill so I plan to also visit the Nampa Warhawks museum, home of some amazing P-40s and a P-51C
27662
No less than five P-40s attended this air show in Lewiston, a couple were from Planes of Fame and one (Suzy) is local to Lewiston. I showed up in a T-6 and didn't feel cool enough.

Finalized my avionics order with MGL and have that placed. My dual MX1 EFIS/MFD displays with engine monitoring, single COM, magnetometer, EFIS extender (to allow more RS232 ports), harnesses and some of the engine probes came to $7109+state extortion fee. My Sandia Transponder with ADS-B in and out will be another $3k.

Not bad for a complete VFR dual display panel with headless COM and TXP.

airlina
03-13-2021, 05:08 PM
Hey Alex, I 've got a buddy building a carbon cub and we are looking at options for his panel without the $25000 price tag . Does the 10 K for your MGL panel include all the stuff you need like engine probes, transducers etc . When pricing EFIS options it seems the hook is a good price for the display, but by the time you add up all the stuff to run the display the cost has just doubled. thanks Bruce N199CL

alexM
03-13-2021, 09:04 PM
Hey Alex, I 've got a buddy building a carbon cub and we are looking at options for his panel without the $25000 price tag . Does the 10 K for your MGL panel include all the stuff you need like engine probes, transducers etc . When pricing EFIS options it seems the hook is a good price for the display, but by the time you add up all the stuff to run the display the cost has just doubled. thanks Bruce N199CL

Bruce,
I'm in a position to give specific answers since I have recent quotes in my hand.

To add Engine management to the EFIS system begins (in the case of MGL) with the RDAC unit. I think there are a few flavors but I have the most expensive one, which is the RDAC "XF MAP - 12 channel" which is $375, and the harness for it which is $99. One of the selling points for me is the RDAC mounts on the forward side of the firewall with only one firewall penetration going to the #1 EFIS.

The thermocouples for my particular quote are CHT for $35/ea and EGT for $50. I don't know if your friend's plans include fuel level or flow. I'll need to display fuel pressure but I don't know what that sensor costs yet.

For most people installing conventional 4 or 6 cylinder engines the 12 channels of the RDAC unit allows for full EGT/CHT on all cylinders. You always get inputs for RPM, oil pressure, oil temperature and of course the "MAP" indicates that I'll have manifold pressure.
27664
You'll see there are inputs for fuel pressure, flow and quantity from two sources and complete control over the 12 channels. You get electrical current from the RDAC but voltage comes from the EFIS itself since it already monitors that for its own needs. That image is right out of the "simulator" software you use to edit or create custom screens for your setup with. You'll see the screw clamps for bare wire inputs which seems low brow but is ideal for a knuckle dragger garage mechanic like myself.

Since I'm running a weirdo 7 cylinder engine I will use 7 channels of CHT and only single EGT (My engine manufacturer thinks single channel CHT is sufficient, so I'm going way overboard).

They originally included a VDO oil pressure sender $60 and a sensor for either oil or coolant for $40. I had them leave those off for the time being because I don't know what specific things I need for my engine. But if you're using a 912 or conventional air cooled 4 cylinder they should be able to hook you right up.

Now back to your original point about building a panel for under $25k. I looked at many options before selecting the MGL. When I looked into Garmin and Dynon I thought I could build an affordable panel. But even if you start with a single medium size display (8.5") and figure out what needs to plug into it, you can't get out the door for under $20k - and that doesn't really include the engine sensor package.

For those seeking instrument capability, well you're going to spend quite a bit more but both of those two brands are a great start. For those of us flying VFR I just don't see the need to spend that much. I need altitude, airspeed, heading and engine instruments. And I need a moving map so I don't bust airspace.
27665
The MX1 IEFIS displays have self contained air data, AHARS, GPS, AoA and autopilot capability. And since I have two of them I have redundancy which a single large display with split screen can't claim. Invisible to the end user, one of the displays is considered primary but if it were to fail it hands off command to the next display (you can have up to 8 displays).

My $7109 includes the 760 channel COM radio with built in intercom (which monitors the standby frequency). This can be operated on the EFIS screen or I can install a COM head for not much extra.

The EFIS screens are fully customizable by the user via the "simulator" software. It can show density altitude, pressure altitude, wind vector, various timers, an HSI, etc. If you want a heading tape it can display Magnetic, true or GPS heading.

airlina
03-14-2021, 04:50 AM
Alex , thanks for the thorough breakdown on the package you ordered. I found as you did that at first glance the competion looked reasonably priced but once you get into the nuts and bolts of everything that needs to be added on to make it work , sticker shock sets in. After reading your initial post , I went on the MGL website and built up a panel with two MX1 screens and and enough stuff for a great VFR panel with ADSB in/out and it came up to right around 10K. Very doable . I have some recent experience with MGL as I added a standalone EMS-2, 3 1/8" engine monitor last summer on my Series 5. Its been a great unit , affordable at 1200 bucks for everything required to make it work, great display and functionality and went in the same hole that the old westach instr. came out of. Just a heads up on the RDAC mounting-I know MGL says forward side of firewall is OK (which is where I installed it) but another user on this forum had heat issues with his in Arizona that caused false readings. I live in upstate NY wher I have not encountered this problem , but I still added a blast tube to the RDAC just in case . Might verify with tech support at MGL before your installation. You're doing a great job on your 5, and with the radial will surely be a head turner. Keep the videos coming. Bruce N199CL

alexM
03-14-2021, 01:52 PM
Bruce,
We don't typically have heat issues here in the PNW either but I'm definitely familiar with blast tubes. Both the BT-13 and T-6 had them pointed at the magnetos. I'll definitely consider it when I choose the location for the RDAC.

alexM
03-16-2021, 07:08 PM
Ribs 3-10 are all bonded in place. Rib 10 is curing as I type this so while I could pull my right wing off the fixture as soon as tomorrow evening, I'll probably leave it sitting right there until I get back from Stick & Rudder.

Big milestone which will allow me to rig the lift strut fittings (eek!) which in turn opens the door to fuel tanks, rib 1, butt ribs, doors and my Laker leading edge. I can almost smell covering and systems installation in my future.

I have some extra trailing edge material so after I got rib 10 set tonight I got out a piece and practiced snipping on it. I'm glad I have extra because my first effort wasn't beautiful. I'm currently pondering the best way to make notch those pieces and have them look better.

Eric Page
03-16-2021, 07:19 PM
I have some extra trailing edge material so after I got rib 10 set tonight I got out a piece and practiced snipping on it. I'm glad I have extra because my first effort wasn't beautiful. I'm currently pondering the best way to make notch those pieces and have them look better.
I'll happily trade you for mine!

alexM
03-28-2021, 10:32 PM
27717
I made my trip to Nampa/Caldwell/Greenleaf/Homedale,ID where I had a really good time flying with Stick & Rudder - and a visit to the Kitfox factory. I flew 7.8 hours and made 36 landings in all kinds of conditions. What a great little airplane.

I came back and finished bonding in the 3/8" diameter stringers. I did some dry fitting of the false ribs and the fuel tanks but didn't bond anything in place.
27718
Today I borrowed a trailer and went to my hangar to get my wing rotisseries and bring them home. It seemed odd to decommission my saw horse wing build fixture but it was time. As of tonight my wings are on the rotisseries and waiting for me to do the fillets and false ribs. I'll get the fillets done for sure but I could delay the false ribs until after rigging the wing strut attach fittings if needed.

Hoping to truck my wings to the hangar next weekend and introduce them to my fuselage. Seems like a mile stone.

alexM
04-02-2021, 07:47 AM
I jumped right into the spar/rib fillets. It's an acquired skill for sure. I've finished all the rear spar fillets but I wish I had started on the front door because they're definitely going to be easier.

The work I did is "good enough" but not award winning in terms of aesthetics.
27763
Yesterday my carbon fiber baggage floor arrived. Two pounds lighter than stock. I will finish both floors and carry on.27762

alexM
04-04-2021, 09:26 PM
27776
I never realized my kindergarten finger printing skills were going to come in handy but here it is. I finished filleting both forward and aft spars to the ribs, and also the drag/anti drag tubes where they pass through ribs 4, 6 and 8.

Then I decided to invest some time into the false ribs. I sanded all of them on both sides with 220 using my random orbit sander. Next I carefully arranged them in a stack and sanded them with 120 to get the periphery to match up (they didn't require much help). Then I used 220 on my rubber "taco" to sand the edges of each one individually.

Several were warped so I came to the forum and did a search. I followed the advice of jtpitkin and just heated them up and worked them with my fingers. I'm going to have to revisit several of them but I decided to start bonding them to the wing. I got four bays on one wing done and stopped while I was ahead.
27777
27778

jiott
04-05-2021, 10:03 AM
To fix warped ribs I just wiped them with a damp cloth on the conCAVE side. It swells that layer of plywood and pushes the rib straight.

alexM
04-05-2021, 12:51 PM
Thanks Jim. I saw your comments in some of the threads I found too. I'll try your method on the ones I've already hit with heat but curled back up. I have a few more that have a twist to them, which I've only worked with the heat method so far.

Fortunately it seems I have some extra ribs because of the way they did extended wing tips back in the day, so I think I'm going to have plenty of straight ribs to use.

alexM
04-09-2021, 11:14 PM
Completed the bonding of the upper false ribs and then did the layout of the hole in the to of the aft spars.
27825
Manual called for drilling to 19/64 and reaming to 0.3115". My reamer is 0.3125" which will have to be close enough.
I was pretty sure I couldn't drill straight to 19/64 without the hole walking. The manual suggests that a step drill will get you there.

So today I put my scrap wings to use by drilling several test holes in them. My step drill goes from 9/32 to 5/16 which is more than reamers are typically intended to clean up.
Using the a #30 pilot allowed me to keep the 19/64" centered where I need it. With a dozen holes for practice I came back home and drilled them for real.
Then I picked up a U-Haul trailer and hauled the wings to my hangar.
I spent some time today digging through my remaining parts for the wing strut hardware and other pieces I know I'll need soon.
27826
Doing some RTFM for the lift strut attach bracket, etc

alexM
04-17-2021, 09:05 PM
27873
This was a milestone today
With the help of my youngest son I dropped the landing gear off and replaced it with some wood blocks and hardware store nuts and bolts. Then we got the spar attach brackets precisely located and clamped in place and we did a dry run of fitting the lower end of the lift strut attached to the fuselage.

My lift strut brackets have always been a really snug fit on the spar tubes. When I did the original layout to create the "no rivet" zone early in the wing build they never did fit tight to the spars. Today I used a piece of appropriately sized PVC pipe and a rubber hammer to give them some love and with just a few encouraging whacks they now fit really well.

I installed the rod ends in the lift struts and about that time my airport neighbor/former airplane partner showed up so I took advantage of having three sets of hands there. In about twenty minutes both wings were on the plane. Lots of work to do before I reach for a drill but it was cool seeing them in place.
27874
This is a bit out of sequence to the manual because I haven't leveled anything and clamped the fuselage to planet earth. But I can't always get help so I took advantage of it while I could. I can go back by myself and attend to the leveling, and make corrections to the washers, hardware orientation etc which was hastily skipped over during this fit up.

Other trivia
I got my box of carbon fiber arrow shafts to use for stiffening up the aluminum trailing edge pieces. Weighing and measuring the pieces I calculated that each piece cut to length will be 7 grams.

Which is great, but then just like sipping a diet coke and ordering a triple whopper with chili cheese fries and a shake - my 26" Airstreaks showed up.
27875

alexM
04-30-2021, 03:26 PM
Almost out of excuses for drilling holes. Wish me luck


https://youtu.be/X0LPUbsIVWI

alexM
05-03-2021, 12:47 PM
I've been silently sweating this global semiconductor/chip shortage for a while now. It has been having a direct impact on my avionics order from MGL. I first learned of the chip shortage when I inquired about their in-house transponder which was set to release in 2020 (but you know how that went), and later on they decided to delay it to focus on being able to ship their current product lines.
At the time I finalized my plans for my instrument panel they were showing many components on back order. I placed my order anyway in March only to see Ford shut down the F-150 plant, Subaru shut down and now every day the news has another industry impacted by lack of semiconductors. It's going to get uglier before it gets better.

Well good news for me! I got a call from MGL last week and they were able to fill my complete order, which is for everything except my transponder solution. My package will arrive in two days, so now I'm stoked again.

Earlier today I called up Better Aircraft Fabrics, the US importer of Oratex. My project came with everything needed, but the chemicals have a definite shelf life so I knew I needed to replace all of them. I spoke with Janina on the phone. Super nice to deal with. She just sent me the latest price list so I'll review that and place my order for tomorrow. Worst case it will show up the day I will first need to start on fabric.

alexM
05-06-2021, 08:05 AM
My box from MGL showed up yesterday afternoon (shown below with packing materials removed).
27991
Personally tested by Adam who updated firmware, maps and databases prior to shipping. The wire harnesses are well made and clearly labeled on both ends which should save me a lot of time. The COM radio harness is complete all the way to the headset jacks. Just add PTT which is already on my stick grips.
27992
That is going to be a very clean panel. That's a fully customizable EFIS, engine monitor and moving map GPS. No floppy wires, no velcro, no tablet on a docking station. Fly from either seat with full capability.

Redundant displays, each with its own WAAS GPS, air data, AHARS, etc. 760 channel COM with built in intercom. The transponder won't add any clutter and if I add a NAV radio it won't either. Built in AoA with three options (two with probes and one no-probe option which works the way the Uavionix does). I'm now strongly considering the electronic circuit breaker feature which will de-clutter my panel even further.

I downloaded all the manuals last night and found that the installation manual answered many of my questions I had. Next thing I knew I had fired up the screen customizing software, which they call a simulator because it allows you to operate a virtual copy of your display. I had played with it a while back when I finalized my purchase decision and managed to paint myself into a corner a few times. It is admittedly a bit clunky in terms of user friendliness (read: It's not), but this time I was able to blow out some of my previous work and rough in my engine display for my 7 cylinder radial. It's going much smoother now.

Once my plane is back on its gear I will sit in the plane and begin mocking up the exact locations. I was originally going to use some thin plywood to allow multiple iterations before cutting metal but with the price of plywood now I might just use sheets of gold.

These displays have flight timers, checklists, W&B (I might be able to retire my knee board which is going to feel really odd). 60 minute black box recorder, density altitude, wind vector, TAS, climb/glide angle, all the usual GPS based flight planning, etc. In short, I'm not lacking any features offered by more expensive alternatives.

In fact I'm quite sure I could not have purchased steam gauges and a used GPS/COM for what I have in this panel. For VFR airport bagging and cross country trips this should prove to be more panel than I'm used to, and it's all 100% brand new.

alexM
05-13-2021, 09:44 AM
28019
I had a couple of days with no adult supervision so I repurposed the dining room table into a layout bench. I extracted the harnesses from their carefully labeled bags and plugged them in. Wow does CAN bus make things less furball-like. Several of the LRUs only need power, ground and CAN bus - that's it. I didn't smoke check anything yet. I mostly wanted to get my head wrapped around the basic connections and start reading up on locating my magnetometer (great resources right here on this forum). After going through the wire diagrams I had a couple of questions which Adam from MGL answered quickly via email. I'm still busy with my custom screens. I dabble a bit every night and make slight improvements, learning the menu structure of the displays as I go.

Thanks to another tip on this forum I've now jumped in line for a landing gear upgrade. John Roberts is a legendary welder and fabricator of cabane style gear for many models of aircraft. I inquired with him about KF 5 gear and he sent me the following pics (high likelihood these are pics from someone here on the forum). He says he's backlogged about 60 days, but I'm on the list now:
28020
28021
This will get me some additional prop clearance, which I need for my engine.

And lastly, to drill my spars at the root end I abandoned my idea of a strap duplicator and went back to my original plan for a drill jig. I placed an order with McMaster Carr for some bar stock and some bushings. They're not complete in this view yet. I will be bonding the bar stock to those self centering drill jigs using Hysol, which I'll probably do tonight.
28022
Those are precision ground "slip fixed renewable" bushings which will allow me to clamp the fixtures to the front spar carry through, indexed to a 0.3215" pin slipped through the intended hole location, remove the 5/16" bushing, then slip in a smaller sized bushing to center drill and then change bushings again to the 19/64" drill size all while keeping the exact hole location. Last step will be to ream the holes to 0.3125" and be done.
Seems like a lot of work and expense for two holes but it will remove a lot of the pacing back and forth and pear shaped holes. I'll make these drill jigs available to other slow-build wing folks like myself in the future.

rv9ralph
05-13-2021, 02:02 PM
I mostly wanted to get my head wrapped around the basic connections and start reading up on locating my magnetometer.

A suggestion for locating where to place your magnetometer is... pick your suspected location, use a hiker's compass and see if there is any deviation as you move the compass near your intended location. When you locate a spot with out any deviates (sic) mount your magnetometer using non ferris fasteners, i.e. brass.

You may already know this but I tought I'd kick this in as a reminder.

Ralph

alexM
05-13-2021, 02:41 PM
What I gathered from reading is that it would be impossible to mount it in a location that makes the avionics company happy, but that most are putting the magnetometer in the last rib bay or in the wing tip itself. I'm likely to go in the last rib bay, possibly in the opposite wing from my pitot tube. I will definitely whip out a hikers compass though, which I might have blown off before.

airlina
05-13-2021, 02:59 PM
Hey Alex, I am interested in your avionics package and install as we discussed on an earlier post of yours. I have a buddy, building a carbon cub and he is panic stricken at the thought of his avionics install. Your post about power ground and can bus hookups sound promising for a similiar install on his plane, so I will be following your upcoming posts and possible videos? on this subject. Keep them coming. Bruce N199CL

alexM
05-14-2021, 09:10 PM
Hey Alex, I am interested in your avionics package and install as we discussed on an earlier post of yours. I have a buddy, building a carbon cub and he is panic stricken at the thought of his avionics install. Your post about power ground and can bus hookups sound promising for a similiar install on his plane, so I will be following your upcoming posts and possible videos? on this subject. Keep them coming. Bruce N199CL

Bruce,
I will absolutely be documenting my avionics install. Good, bad and ugly all from the perspective of someone who hasn't done this before. I just ordered a book tonight on avionics installation and I'll likely be taxing fellow KF5 builder Eric Page for some of the deep electro-geek thinking.

I was counting on the help of my youngest kid to help pull my wings off and get my drill jigs completed, but he had to have oral surgery today. I was his DD and it was quite obvious I needed to work on another plan. Damn kids! I started in tonight and was sure one of my hangar neighbors would be dumb enough to stick his head in my hangar and be drawn into my trap. That didn't happen but I could hear a party going on around the corner, so I knew I could trick someone into helping.

I blocked up both wing tips and removed the right lift strut, set up a pair of sawhorses and went to look for a stooge. I found him with a beer in hand and a few short minutes later we had the right wing on the saw horses. I was able to confirm that the witness holes in the lift strut attach fittings were still exactly on top of the scribe lines (huge relief), then turned my attention to the other wing. I managed to pull the lift strut off and then pulled the wing off by myself (just needed to pull it straight off and set it on the high horses.

The basis for my drill jig is a pair of self centering drill jigs from Harbor Freight. Yes I tend to speak ill of Harbor Freight because I think a drill bit or set of snap ring pliers should last years (perhaps decades) and not just one use. My biggest beef is that if I pay more at the big box home stores I'm buying the same crap at a higher price. I will say they're getting better, but it is still a buyer beware thing.

Enough of my soap box. It's pretty hard to screw up a simple piece of extrusion, and that is all I needed out of the deal. I marked the location where my 1/2" aluminum bar stock would sit, and then used my 2" sanding disc to get some fresh bare metal on both pieces. I cleaned everything with acetone (wiping the silkscreen markings right off the harbor freight piece) and then put a new tip on my Hysol mixing gun.
28031
I ran my 5/16" reamer through my spar carry through holes (they had obviously not been done before), then used a 5/16" drill bit to locate my full size 5/16" slip fit bushings in my bar stock. I squished everything together and verified that the drill bit just barely slipped through everything. Once I was happy with the location I removed the drill bushing and 5/16" bit without moving anything (and returned later to assure nothing moved, and it had not). Then I set up the other side exactly the same.
28032
I'm going to leave it 24 hours to cure properly and then I'm going to slap it on my drill press and add some mechanical fasteners. The Hysol is probably sufficient, but the 19/64" bit does tend to snag at the last moment so I don't want to risk having the Hysol joint fail and leave me stranded.
28033
Before heading to the aeropuerto I sanded my #1 ribs with 220, and stuck it out long enough to sand my butt ribs too. I slipped the #1 ribs onto the wings because I will surely forget later.

In about 48 hours I expect to have my wing roots drilled and at least two holes per lift strut attach fittings done. Good times.

In other news I ordered new Oratex adhesive and another 5 yards of fabric. Janina was able to track down the invoice from the previous owner of my kit and found that he only bought 25 yards of the extra wide fabric (78"), and they recommend 30 yards. I asked for and will receive the lesser grade of fabric to save a bit of cash, 3 liters of adhesive, the iron and heat gun soon. The fabric I have is the non opaque white and since I have no plan for a color scheme yet I just ordered more of the same. I'm counting on slapping on a splash of color before the plane is airworthy, but that is down my priority list.

airlina
05-15-2021, 05:58 PM
Thanks Alex, i'm enjoying your build and your videos , you're going to have a pretty cool Series 5 Special when you are done. Bruce N199CL

alexM
05-17-2021, 11:35 AM
Thanks for the feedback Bruce.

I managed to get the wing root holes all drilled yesterday. Huge relief. Here's the video:

https://youtu.be/m8dYqq6M5pU

Eric Page
05-17-2021, 12:34 PM
Whew! It's got to feel good to have that big step done.

alexM
05-18-2021, 07:40 AM
Whew! It's got to feel good to have that big step done.

Yes, huge relief. I'm sure it's all down hill from here.

Eric Page
05-18-2021, 09:25 AM
Oh, yeah. The rest of the build is, "snap tab A into slot B."

jiott
05-18-2021, 10:44 AM
Alex, I greatly admire your skill and craftsmanship in fabricating that piece of tooling.
I also want to encourage others who may be watching all this and freaking out because they have not the means to build such a jig. The instructions in the build manual work just fine if followed carefully and thousands of us have done it that way with fine results.
Alex' offer to loan out his jig is a very fine gesture and maybe several will take advantage of it.

alexM
05-18-2021, 11:47 AM
Alex, I greatly admire your skill and craftsmanship in fabricating that piece of tooling.
I also want to encourage others who may be watching all this and freaking out because they have not the means to build such a jig. The instructions in the build manual work just fine if followed carefully and thousands of us have done it that way with fine results.
Alex' offer to loan out his jig is a very fine gesture and maybe several will take advantage of it.

Thanks for pointing that out Jim. Because of the nature of amateur video editing I ended up cutting out a piece where I shared my discussion with airport neighbor Nate Ashton. He said that when you pilot the hole and use a rat tail file, the steel sleeve in the carry through keeps you from oversizing the hole. It would have to be done carefully but as you say, it's been done thousands of times buy other builders.

I've already had a few inquiries about the fixtures. I'm shipping them to a forum member in Canada next week.

efwd
05-18-2021, 02:53 PM
I discovered that a file is archaic once I put the dremel to work. Once I got the primary hole drilled I was able to fit the dremel bit in and it was quick and painless. I used the side cutting drill bit that came with my Dremel. Just hold the tool vertical as to not do metal work inside the through hole.

Jerrytex
05-20-2021, 08:02 AM
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00DVDWYH0/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o06_s01?ie=UTF8&th=1


This is what I used and it is surprisingly similar to what Brandon used on a you tube video where he was rigging a wing.

alexM
05-26-2021, 11:15 AM
^ Very interesting use of a center drill, but likely works superbly. I received my most recent order from McMaster Carr which had a 0.3125" drill blank, a short flute 5/16" drill and a fresh 19/64" drill - all for the benefit of those who borrow my drill jigs.

My better half recently bought a "fixer upper" home a 3 hour drive from home which is putting a bind in my build schedule. She's very supportive of my flying/building activities so it's only fair that I help where ever she needs me.

I'm not dead in the water however. I ordered the book "Aircraft Wiring Guide" by Marc Ausman, and manage to read it cover to cover over the weekend while I was holding down a comfortable chair. Prior to ordering it I read some less favorable reviews but I ordered it anyway and I'm glad I did. It had the perfect content that I needed to read at this stage of my build, and it answered a ton of questions including some I didn't know I would eventually ask.

Then as recently as last night I perused this forum in the avionics section where I learned a lot more information specific to the Kitfox. I had been planning on a connector at the wing roots "just in case" I need to remove wings at some point, but now I will just have a decent service loop and not look back. I don't plan on even folding my wings unless absolutely necessary.

I'm looking forward to getting my plane back on its gear so I can test fit all my avionics and wire harnesses and get an idea of where they'll eventually be located. That will allow me to estimate the amount of wiring I need, connectors, terminal strips, fuses/circuit breakers etc.

Making chips
I did manage a couple of build sessions at the hangar. Oh, I am so looking forward to bringing parts back home because I get WAY more building done that way. What I did manage to do was get out my steel spar doublers which were only partially fabricated by the previous builder. He did do a good job of laying out the hole pattern for the outer pieces and drilling up the main hole doing through them. I reamed out the holes, then I used my Sawzall to cut as spar stub off my scrap wings. I clamped pairs of inner/outer doublers to the spar stub and used my drill press to drill up the 3/32" holes at the outboard end of the doublers. I removed the inside doubler and then drilled up the rest of the 7 holes per doubler, using Clecos as I went, just as the manual describes.
Prior to drilling I noticed that the curvature of the doublers was smaller than the diameter of the spar tube, so I used an arbor press to flatten them just enough so they matched the spar contour. I was worried about flattening them out too much, and did just that on an extra scrap doubler before I got the hang of it. I probably spent an hour on the first pair of doublers and then an hour for all the rest of them combined.

I still need to put corner radii on all the pieces but I have deburred everything. I'll have to pull the wings off to clamp, drill, deburr (again), prep and finally Hysol (with micro balloons) and rivet them in place. Once that is done I'll have to re-introduce the spars to the cabin structure to see how much more I have to file the spar carry through tubes to fit over the doublers.

Prior to pulling the wings I needed to do one more task, which was to drill two holes through each of the lift strut attach fittings into the wing spars and secure with two Clecos in each fitting. Of course I checked all my rigging to make sure I still had the proper dihedral and washout (the sweep ship sailed when I drilled up the roots of the spars, but it's still at zero degrees). So now at least I know I should be able to remove my wings and know that putting them back on will be straight forward. I hope.

Then I will need to cut the relief notches in the rear spars which allow the wings to fold. My paper templates are missing even though I have every other one. I thought about making a template from the notches on my scrap wings but it looks to me that they removed way too much material near the drilled holes, leaving scant edge margin to the 5/16" holes in the spars.

After I get the steel doublers in and the wings fit back to the fuselage I can locate and bond my #1 ribs. Once that is done I can bring large pieces back home and get some real work done.

rv9ralph
05-26-2021, 04:57 PM
Another great resource on wiring our aircraft is at www.aeroelectric.com. The site is a little old school but a wealth of information provided by Bob Knuckles. His book "AeroElectric Connection" is a valuable resource to have on your shelf.

Bob is also a constant contributor to the AeroElectric List at Matronics.com. Some members of this forum are regulars there.

Ralph

Eric Page
05-26-2021, 05:21 PM
Bob's book, The AeroElectric Connection, can be downloaded in PDF format here (http://www.aeroelectric.com/Books/Connection/) for free.

His electrical architecture drawings are available in DWG format here (http://www.aeroelectric.com/PPS/ACAD_Architecture_Dwgs/), or in PDF format here (http://www.aeroelectric.com/PPS/Adobe_Architecture_Pdfs/).

alexM
05-26-2021, 06:21 PM
Ralph and Eric,
A gold mine, thank you.

In other news (there's always other news isn't there?), I got my Oratex order from Germany in less than a week. That includes my fresh adhesive and five more yards of fabric. My iron and heat gun came just a day earlier.

alexM
05-31-2021, 05:34 PM
Finally got in another solid build session. Got to my hangar around 9am and used my bench grinder to put the corner radii on all the steel spar doublers.

Next I removed the right wing and set it on the saw horses. It seems like a job you should have help for but I'm getting pretty good at it. Starting on the top side of the aft spar I clamped the outer doubler in place, drilled through the spar with the 3/32" bit, then introduced the inner doubler and got a Cleco in it. I had just got started when my drill battery wore out, so I had to make the trek home to get the others which were charged up. I also stopped and bought some more 3/32" drill bits since the Irwin and Dewalt brands don't seem to make it very far.
28160
That clamp was only a temporary thing. I replaced it with a set of long nose vice grips with a bunch of tape on the jaws, then drilled and Cleco'd my way inboard with the 3/32". The manual says to turn right around and blow them out to #30 so I obliged.
28161
28163
As usual the first pair of doublers took almost two hours and the last pair took about 15 minutes. I kept at it until all the doublers on the right wing were in place and drilled up to #30.
28164
So next step is to deburr everything, clean up the oil I used for drilling and prepare the non-bonding surfaces for 2 part epoxy primer. I called it quits around 4pm since it seemed like a good place to stop for the day. I had a few hangar neighbors stop by to check on the project and of course I had to run out to see a few interesting aircraft that came through. We had a Chinook make a low pass and a radial powered biplane from the late 20s/early 30s (it was too high for me to get a positive ID on but looked like a Fleet).

alexM
06-03-2021, 05:11 PM
With two more short sessions I got all the holes drilled for the left wing steel doublers. I needed to run to eastern Washington for a couple of days and didn't want to lose momentum so I removed all of the steel doublers, labeled them all as to where they went and put together a box full of acetone, rags, deburr tools and a can of 2 part epoxy primer - and took it all with me.

I had some time earlier today to prep the parts so I did that. I was super careful not to mix up the pieces (lots of opportunities to do that) and got them all primed on the sides that will not see Hysol and micro balloons. I'm headed back home tonight and have all day tomorrow where job #1 will be to get these bonded/riveted in place.
28169

alexM
06-05-2021, 09:49 AM
28185
This job is behind me now. Steel doublers are bonded and riveted in all locations and I can still (just barely) get the pins through. I'll run a reamer back through once the Hysol has fully cured. Now I have to see how much filing I need to do in order to get the wings back on the spar carry through structure. There was enough slop for one+ doublers before I started but not enough for both of them. I didn't want to get out a file until this step was done because I didn't know how thick the Hysol/micro balloons would end up.

My other half has to work all day today so I'm headed back to the hangar to drill/rivet/bond the lift strut attach fittings. Given how long it took to do the spar doublers I have no illusion that I'll have all four lift strut attach fittings done today but I'll put a dent in the job.

I still need to cut the relief into the rear spars so the wings can fold and I need to notch the #1 ribs so they'll fit over the doublers and bond those in place. My paper pattern for the spar notches is missing, having been used the the previous builder. I thought of using my scrap wings as a pattern but I'm pretty sure at this point that they removed more material than you're supposed to, so I would rather just ignore them and do it correctly.

I'm curious what others have used to cut those notches. The manual makes a few suggestions including a file but that seems akin to escaping from prison.

jiott
06-05-2021, 11:19 AM
A Dremel tool works great for cutting and contouring those notches.

alexM
06-05-2021, 04:43 PM
A Dremel tool works great for cutting and contouring those notches.

Thanks Jim. Any suggestion on what widget to chuck up in my Dremel? I've got a box full of various bits and pieces and can't think of any that would do the job.

alexM
06-05-2021, 05:29 PM
Today was at least semi productive (no steps backwards which is always a plus). I reviewed the manual prior to getting out the drill and was surprised how fast it went. Well, except for the part where I realized that I would need my 90 degree drill motor which was at home. Half an hour and $6 in bridge toll wasted I was back on track.

I used a sharpie pen to circle the row of holes which would get the long rivets, and put an X over the ones that urge you: "Don't drill!". I had never noticed the "drill later" holes which go in the rear lift strut attach fittings, nor the reference to a second hole in the middle of the forward lift strut attach fitting. There are no dimensions for laying them out, but I get the intent of them so it shouldn't be difficult.

The drilling went very quickly (yay aluminum). I used a fairly coarse 2" scotchbrite wheel on my angle grinder to remove the powder coating from inside the steel fitting. I cleaned the spar up with acetone, which removed all my layout dye and old sharpie marks. Then I traced around the fitting, masked the spar with blue tape and scuffed it up with a red scotchbrite pad. Then I cleaned up everything again with denatured alcohol and mixed up some Hysol with micro balloons.

The only rivet I couldn't reach was the one in between the ears of the steel fitting which had been used for alignment purposes until today.
28186
There was quite a bit of squeeze out, which I expected, so I was glad I had left the blue tape in place. A nearly dripping wet cloth with alcohol on it cleaned everything up as you see in the image above. The Clecos all went into a cup of acetone as they were removed. I've screwed up before and not been diligent about cleaning them, and have a couple that don't work very well. After a good soak I worked them over and they came out clean.

In order to bond another fitting I would need to run home and get more latex gloves and another 2" disc, which I didn't want to do. So I did the next best thing and drilled up the aft fitting.
28187
I'm hoping tomorrow allows me to get at least one more bonded/riveted in place.

Eric Page
06-05-2021, 07:35 PM
Boy, you've been pounding it out lately. Well done!

jiott
06-05-2021, 08:14 PM
Thanks Jim. Any suggestion on what widget to chuck up in my Dremel? I've got a box full of various bits and pieces and can't think of any that would do the job.

I used the cutoff wheel to remove the big pieces, then used the 1/8" carbide side cutting bit to contour to the line.

alexM
06-05-2021, 10:35 PM
^Thanks Jim, I'll give that a try.

I decided to get serious about my panel design. I reverse engineered the MGL MX1 and then used the link suggested in another thread to find switches along with their CAD models. I did some more searching and came up with Klixon type circuit breakers, a starter button, and ELT control panel. I had to draw the dimmer knob up from an internet 3 view.

Engraving is a nice touch so of course I got carried away with that. Still very much a work in progress but it is a start.28188
28189
28190
28191

Eric Page
06-07-2021, 03:04 PM
Dang, I envy your CAD skills. I might need you to talk me through adding a part to my panel drawing and positioning it in the right place...

Just watched your latest video. Sure wish I had known that you needed more clecoes. I bought two bags of 100 years ago when Brown Tool had some blemished ones on sale really cheap (I was hard over on building an RV-8 at the time). I could have given you a bag and still had a lifetime supply!

alexM
06-08-2021, 07:59 AM
I would have taken them too. I recently realized that one should have at least two batches of Clecos. A dirty set and a super clean set. Once you get parts all meticulously clean it doesn't make sense to jam greasy Clecos in the holes.

alexM
06-08-2021, 08:10 AM
I just learned a few minutes ago that my Verner Scarlett 7U is in production and will soon be headed to the test cell for a six hour run.

I'm stoked. This is about a month earlier than predicted.

28216
Pretty soon I'll be filling this hole.

Eric Page
06-08-2021, 12:03 PM
Woo hoo! I'm definitely going to have to stop by for a gander when it arrives.

Freedom2
06-08-2021, 10:11 PM
I just learned a few minutes ago that my Verner Scarlett 7U is in production and will soon be headed to the test cell for a six hour run.

I'm stoked. This is about a month earlier than predicted.

28216
Pretty soon I'll be filling this hole.

Hey Alex, how exciting!!!!! I'm as well, stoked for you!!!

alexM
06-12-2021, 08:21 AM
Yesterday I got the last of my lift strut attach fittings bonded/riveted in place. Planning on a good build session today where I will re-fit the wings to the spar carry through, removing just enough material to account for the steel doublers which are inside the spars. Then I'll cut the reliefs in the aft spars to allow wing sweep, and finally hoping to get my #1 ribs bonded in place.

It's a lofty goal but I should be able to at least get all that done this weekend.

In the meantime, here are a few more "work in progress" shots of my instrument panel. I need to place the stiffening angles on the back side and it looks like I'll need to make a slight adjustment in spacing but only about 1/8". I'm even showing the nutplates I've purchased to retain the display units, including the countersunk rivet locations.

I'm looking forward to getting my fuselage back on its gear so I can sit in it and mock this panel up, make some airplane noises and see if I need to move anything. I may end up adjusting the spacing of the displays, move switches, etc.
28243
Still using my free seat of Solidworks, courtesy of an EAA membership. The above image includes my custom screen pages I created with the MGL software. That is pages 1 and 3 showing as I imagine for a pilot sitting on the left while enroute. EFIS and engine information on one screen and moving map on the other.

Those custom screen pages are also still in draft form. I'm mostly happy with them but still have some work to do. For those who are going to zoom in, things like the G meter will only pop up on the display above 1.5G and below 0.5G. Other fields like the climb/glide ratio and angle will be removed after phase 1 flight testing.
28244
28245
28246

28247

Freedom2
06-12-2021, 09:04 AM
Alex, Great job using that solidworks! So with 7u and the fuel system, I'm assuming there is no fuel pump on the motor, so are you running just one electric fuel pump or the two as back up?

alexM
06-12-2021, 10:24 AM
Alex, Great job using that solidworks! So with 7u and the fuel system, I'm assuming there is no fuel pump on the motor, so are you running just one electric fuel pump or the two as back up?

Great question, to which the answer is "it depends". To set the stage for the passively interested reader, at the time I was preparing to order my engine there were three induction options available for the Verner radials. A simple SS side draft carb which has no mixture control (good to about 6500' MSL according to the literature), a Marv Schebler carb identical to the one my Citabria had, and a throttle body fuel injection system.

I was leaning towards the fuel injection system but as I got closer to ordering my engine that option was removed. Brett Hahn, the US importer I'm working with, told me it wasn't because there was a problem with the FI system, it was because so many customers screwed with it (changed fuel maps and settings) and expected support and hand holding while doing so. It became a significant time sink for the folks at Verner so they removed the option.

I've spent quite a bit of time on the phone with Brett. He and I are both motorcycle riders and gear heads in general. He knows that I plug a laptop into every vehicle I own and understand the process and has discussed that with the factory. If there are any warranty or service bulletin issues with my engine they are comfortable sending me the parts rather than requiring the engine be shipped back and forth. I probably could have still obtained the FI system, but opted to go with the Marv Schebler because it was a known quantity for me.

Back to the fuel pump question. With both carb versions it only needs about 0.5 psi of pressure head at the carb, and we all know that planes like my Citabria make due with gravity feed from the tanks and they do fine with no fuel pump of any kind. The carb on your typical horizontally opposed engine is underneath, but the carb on a radial is directly aft of the center of the crank shaft (so a bit higher). You can look at the history of the Luscombe and see where early installations of 90hp engines resulted in a much steeper climb out, bringing the fuel tank to the same height as the carb.

Zero fuel pressure degrades climb performance by roughly 100% when the engine dies, so presence of a fuel pump for prime, engine start, takeoff and climb are warranted and that is what I had planned for up until now. I will note that the factory installation manual calls for 2.2-10.1 psi for the carb engines so they expect a full time fuel pump.

There's always a "but"...
When Brett called me last week to tell me my engine was being assembled there was a "but". It turns out that Marv Schebler carbs are in short supply in the Czech republic, so my engine will go into the test cell with the side draft SS carb and it will ship that way to me. Apparently 90% of customers go with the SS and it works great. It would also work great for 90% of my flying, but there's the Cascade range between me and a lot of places I go so I would prefer a red knob be available.

Brett told me he has been installing a different throttle body fuel injection system on the Scarlett 9 engines and is having excellent success with it. He has not yet installed TB FI on a 7 cylinder so he is willing to cut me a deal to be the test mule for it. That system does run a pair of fuel pumps, just like the FI Rotax engines do.

Presence of the FI system comes with one obvious benefit, and that is that it removes an engineering challenge of providing carb heat. I was going to have to create an air box with a flapper door and run a push-pull cable to my panel.

Freedom2
06-12-2021, 12:56 PM
Wow, did I dig up a can of worms! MMM, I guess time will tell where I end up going with this?? thx for that info on this subject, I'll stay tuned.

alexM
06-12-2021, 06:06 PM
I just had a pretty productive day. Made a big dent in my lofty goals mentioned earlier and hit a big milestone, and I also got a cool part from Kitfox today!

Heather emailed me early last week to tell me that my carbon fiber boot cowl had just shipped. That was a pleasant surprise because I didn't expect it for a few months. A while back I sold my fiberglass boot cowl to Eric in order to complement the 912 SS7 style upper/lower that were on the chopping block. I retained the stainless firewall for the 912 as the basis for my Verner installation.

I haven't seen all the possible firewall/boot cowl versions available but at least some of the cowlings I've seen for the Lycoming and friends have a "step" or blended joggle in them to accommodate the wide air cooled engines. Some other versions I've seen have the upper cowl go all the way back to the windshield, which seems like a pain in the a**. For reasons I'm about to explain, the SS7 boot cowl is a pretty good starting point. And for the naysayers it will also mean that the plane I build will be (close to) drop in ready for a 912 FWF.

I have a task ahead of me which is to fabricate the section of cowl from the firewall to the back of the exhaust system. It has to blend from the shape of the firewall to a 32-ish" circle in about 13" (pulling numbers from memory, subject to fact checking). The way I pull that off (metal or fiberglass) is still TBD, but I did want my boot cowl here about time my engine showed up so that I could start this work.

Where was I?
The delivery truck showed up this morning about 10am. A very nice guy gets out and opens the back of the truck. He puts on his gloves and starts pumping the handle of a pallet jack. In the back of the truck is a huge box on a pallet but just ahead of it I see another box which looks light, and it says "Alex" on it. I tell the driver but he said "Yep, there are two Alex's on my route today". He checks his paperwork and confirms the reasonable sized box is not mine. And that what looks like a Chevy crate motor is.
28252
The driver was a nice guy and curious as I start cutting the straps holding the lid to the pallet underneath. There was enough dunnage to stage a shipwreck, but the part was in perfect condition. We both had a good laugh over the weight of the part when I handed it to him.

Speaking of which. 2 lbs 4.5 ounces. I asked Eric just the other day if he had the means to weigh the fiberglass version I sold him. The answer was 4 lbs 2.17 ounces, so not quite a 2 lb weight savings.

Back to the hangar
I suckered my youngest son into helping me today. I can get the wings on and off by myself now, and it's not that hard. But in order to file the vertical tubes in the spar carry through to fit over my steel doubler equipped spars was going to take some filing, a test fit and removal, some filing, etc - over and over until the wings could be pinned again. By having his assistance I could make a round trip every five minutes if necessary. Whoever started my project had filed the tops of the vertical tubes in the spar carry through but left the bottoms untouched. Since I rigged the wings with the spars touching on the tops I figured I would only file on the bottoms this time, which should leave my rigging in a good spot.

Once we got both wings fitted so they would pin again at the roots I turned my attention to cutting the notches in the aft spar to allow the wings to fold. I started with the stump I cutoff the scrap wings and figured out where they removed the right and wrong amounts of material. Then I used some file folder paper to make a perfect sleeve that fit over the stump, left just enough room to allow the wing to fold and included the holes to locate the cut edge.

It was perfect, except that I made it for a spar tube that didn't have steel doublers riveted and bonded on. So I made another file folder sleeve, this time fitting it over the uncut spars, and taking a SWAG at transferring my previously derived shape to the larger sleeve.

I cut the relief notch on my right wing, mostly with a 2" cutoff wheel on my 12V Milwaukee straight grinder, but also used a 3" cutoff wheel on an air motor. I stayed inside the sharpie pen marks on the spar because it's always easier to remove more material than to put it back. On the left wing I had to think about it for a while and came to the conclusion that to mirror the notch on the right I would have to remove the tape on my paper sleeve and turn it inside out.

Ever have that feeling that you've been grinding away on the wrong part of the wing spar? Well I did, about four times per wing. But every time I stopped I was doing it right, so I kept at it.

Next we notched the #1 ribs so they would slide over the steel doublers, then I slid them on all the way up to the #3 rib so I could attend to them later without pulling the wings off.

Finally it was time to pull the fuselage outside and put the wings on. I could have done that part in the hangar but I could not have checked the wing sweep because it's a T hangar. Between my practice doing the job alone, and having my son there we made quick work of it. Before I could do that however, we had to put the landing gear back on. He's helped me with that before so it didn't take long.

For the record, the plane will not fall over with just one wing on it (at least at this stage of the build). With both wings on it was time for a photographic high five moment, so that's what you get below. We checked the wing sweep and I have some material to remove. Basically my sharpie marks are right on if I just grind until they are gone too. Again, this was a planned outcome because I don't want to remove more than I need to.

Anyway, this was pretty cool for me to see this afternoon. I successfully made my way through the slow wing build and rigging process. I'll head back over tomorrow to bond the #1 ribs in place.
28253
28254
28255

Eric Page
06-12-2021, 07:21 PM
Fantastic, Alex! Great to see so much progress.

A couple of thoughts on your panel. You could eliminate three switches:

1. Two could go by using a DPDT OFF-ON-ON progressive transfer switch (Carling 2GG51-73 / B&C S700-2-11) in place of two separate SPST switches.


One to control battery and alternator field (down = both OFF, middle = battery ON, up = battery and alternator ON).
Another to control nav/pos and strobe lights (down = OFF, middle = nav/pos ON, up = nav/pos and strobe ON).
If you have two landing lights, one aimed for landing and one aimed for taxi, you could control them the same way (OFF, taxi, taxi+landing).

2. The third switch that could go is for the panel lights, if you used a dimmer potentiometer with a built-in switch, either rotary (twist to dimmest setting, then twist further to click off) or push on/push off.

Also, just a thought... instrument upgrades/additions in the future might be difficult if switches occupy the middle of the panel.

alexM
06-13-2021, 08:46 AM
I will definitely take the three position switches and dimmer/switch under advisement. The function absolutely makes sense. The only downside I see is it makes labeling the three position switches a bit more challenging.

I want all the primary switches in the center to make flying from either seat simple. As you can imagine, I have a few alternate layouts. I like the grouping of switches by function/flow as opposed to a row of identical switches across the bottom. I can tighten the spacing up a bit but it's the size of those switches and breakers on the back side which is the limiting factor. It highlights just how small the panel blank is.

Should technology ever advance beyond 2020 levels or I elect to install a weapons control panel I will just have a new panel cut.

Eric Page
06-13-2021, 10:44 AM
The only downside I see is it makes labeling the three position switches a bit more challenging.
True. See the Nuckolls book for examples of switch panel labeling. Or here (http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/switchpanel/swpanel.pdf).

Note that Bob's DC PWR MASTER switch is, in my view, somewhat confusingly labeled; the up position powers the alternator, but that function isn't obvious from the label. To my mind, this makes more sense:



--------------------DC POWER--------------------
BAT
+ALT
B
A
T
OFF

I want all the primary switches in the center to make flying from either seat simple.
Ah, yes, I forgot that you're going to fly from the right seat. Makes sense with that in mind.


I like the grouping of switches by function/flow as opposed to a row of identical switches across the bottom.
Agreed. Note in Bob's examples how silkscreened boxes can help to visually group functionally related switches.


I can tighten the spacing up a bit but it's the size of those switches and breakers on the back side which is the limiting factor. It highlights just how small the panel blank is.
Indeed, and the DP switches are even wider than the SP versions.

alexM
06-13-2021, 11:43 AM
"+ALT" is exactly where my mind was headed

jrevens
06-13-2021, 08:06 PM
Probably not relevant, but this is how I labeled it -

alexM
06-13-2021, 08:53 PM
That is helpful John, thanks. Tell me about the wrinkle finish. What product did you use and how durable has it been?

jrevens
06-13-2021, 10:16 PM
That is helpful John, thanks. Tell me about the wrinkle finish. What product did you use and how durable has it been?

It's out of a rattle can... VHT brand, high-temp (350 deg.), purchased at a local auto supply. It has been durable, doesn't show fingerprints or dirt, and if it gets a tiny chip a black Sharpie completely hides it. I've found the key to durability with it is to use a good self-etching primer - as dark a color as you can get. I like the look (exactly what I had in my T-18 for 28 years) of the non-glare finish. I know it's not very modern, but that's the kind of guy I am, as evidenced by my round gauges. :cool:

alexM
06-15-2021, 10:28 PM
Last night I did an inventory of the tubs of parts I have remaining. I did it because I was about to place an online order from B&C and it sure seemed like I had seen some of the things in my shopping cart. It would not be the first time I ordered something I already had - a hazard of assuming someone else's project I guess.

Anyway my tubs of parts are split between my garage and my hangar so this afternoon I made it over to poke through those. After that I still had some free time so I used my Dremel tool and removed more material from the rear spars to allow the wings to fold. I applied several layers of tape on the spar carry through to prevent damage from an unsteady hand. Super glad I did that and might even recommend taping a layer of something thin but durable to protect the spar carry through even better. But in the end I was able to fold my wings!
28267
28268
It's just barely enough clearance but it doesn't touch anywhere. Next time I pull the wings off I'll take the time to fine tune it and make it look nice. Not sure why it made me so happy to see the wings fold since I'm not planning on doing it very often but it was cool to see.

I'm going back tomorrow afternoon to bond my #1 ribs in place.

alexM
06-18-2021, 09:33 PM
Can anyone tell me just how far back the wings fold? Is it past perfectly straight back? With my #1 ribs bonded a very careful 35.5" from rib #3, and the wings folded back this is the first point of contact:
28291
That is the left wing folded back until rib #1 touches the rear spar carry through. With both wings folded identically (which is a point a tad more than perfectly straight back) the right wing still has about 1/8" of clearance. The right one will fold until the trailing edge tips of the wing ribs almost touch the rudder. I wish I understood the potential issue here before I bonded that rib. I might have moved it outboard an 1/8" if I knew about it. Should I move it?

edit: for some reason that rib looks twisted in the image. I can assure you it is straight.

jiott
06-18-2021, 10:09 PM
The wings fold back until the flaperons (rotated vertical) contact the vertical stabilizer. Of course you put padding in that contact point which keeps the wings out somewhat. The trailing edge of the wing does not even come close to the rudder/stabilizer.

Jerrytex
06-20-2021, 10:58 AM
I used the wing fold lock brackets to determine how far back the wings need to fold. I found the the wing lead edge was even the H-Stab ends.

The Model 5 build manual does not list a step to fold the wings and check for clearance between the #1 rib and the rear cary through spar. I discovered it the hard way and had to grind on the #1 rib on the left wing after covering. Not ideal and wished I would have caught it pre-covering.

Also if have a pitot mast, check to make sure it clears the top of the H-Stab when the folds are folded. I mounted mine where the manual says and it contacted the top of the H-Stab when the wing was folded. I ended up cutting 1" off the mast. Some have mounted the Pitot on the inside of the lift strut which would eliminate this issue.


28300

alexM
06-22-2021, 12:21 PM
Jim and Jerry,
Thank you. I do own the travel braces used during the wing fold procedure and I know where they're at. I guess it's time to figure out how to use them.

alexM
06-28-2021, 07:17 AM
As usual, any video I create is a bit behind the times. My trailing edge pieces for ribs 3-10 are done. Hoping to prep my fuel tanks tonight.


https://youtu.be/g1uWoQOAOjY

alexM
07-01-2021, 01:04 PM
My Verner Scarlett 7U is at Brahn Sport (one of three US importers for Verner) in New Mexico. It arrived in great shape.
28328
For those not familiar with radials, it is face down with the prop hub near the floor. Those are intake runners on this side and the carb is mounted directly behind the crankshaft centerline, what looks like "on top" in this picture. That carb is coming off and will be replaced by a throttle body fuel injection system. More on that later.
28329
No magnetos on this engine. Every spark plug gets its own coil, similar to a half way modern car. Those are the coils in the foreground. To the right side of the image is the oil tank. Now the oil tank on a "normal" radial like the R985, R1340 etc is mounted up high on the firewall behind the engine. Following Civil Engineering rule #1 (s*** always goes down hill), it can lead to hydrostatic lock. The R985 and friends have a scavenge pump which pumps oil back up hill to the tank.

With the Verner, the oil tank sits below the bottom cylinders which is a distinct advantage for avoiding hydrostatic lock (the s*** is already at the bottom of the hill). There are three oil lines which drain back to the tank. One from the crankcase, and two are cylinder head drains. The main oil pump is sufficient to suck oil from the tank and push it through the engine.

Regardless of where the oil tank sits, you still pull the prop through several blades to assure everything is free.

With the R985 and R1340 I was taught to always park the plane with the prop set to TDC on the #1 cylinder. This leaves one exhaust and one intake valve open on the bottom cylinders 5&6 (talking 9 cylinder engine here). Any oil which does leak downhill and pool in the cylinders will drain into the exhaust manifold on one cylinder and the intake on the other.

Small amounts of oil in the exhaust manifold poses no risk and just creates more smokey theatrics on engine start.

That intake full of oil is still a big risk. If you pull the prop through there won't be enough suction to draw that oil into the cylinder and highlight the problem. It will wait until the moment the engine first fires up and then suck it in. Result is a bent connecting rod (or worse).

28330
Before I continue I will level set radial design. All single row engines I've been around follow this format: Cylinder #1 is straight up at the top. Then the order goes counter clockwise when viewed from the front with #2 at the 10 O'clock, 3 at 8:30-ish and so forth. Firing order is always odd then even, so 1, 3, 5, 7, 2, 4, 6 in this case. The cam (it's not really a shaft, it's a big plate with rounded corners) serves both intake and exhaust valves and you can probably guess where it's located.

Back to the intake issue:
The Verner comes with a small fitting on the intake runner of the bottom cylinder #5, and it is visible in the picture above. You open that briefly during preflight to see if anything drains out. With the R985 and R1340 we generally see a very small hole drilled into the low point of that intake runner. In theory it will weep out any oil which is pooling in the intake while it is parked, and is small enough not to impact the fuel/air on that cylinder.

Me, I trust that stuff as much as I trust aircraft heaters, parking brakes and gas gauges - which is to say : Not at all.

So I pull blades even if I just stop for gas. In a couple hundred hours of driving a radial I have never had cylinder full of oil, but I have experienced occasions when the compression on some cylinders seemed higher than normal. That's a sure sign of some extra oil so I just keep gently pulling blades until all the cylinders feel the same. In fact the only time I've had a radial even miss a beat was in the BT-13 on a cross country and my girlfriend accidentally pulled the power back while trying to put on warm clothes. But that's a story for another time.

Back to the picture above you can see a circular section of braided line at the front of the engine. It squirts oil into the valve covers of cylinders 2, 1 and 7. That oil drains back down to the crankcase via the push rod tubes. The two drain lines I referred to earlier come from the two red caps you see on those bottom valve covers. Oil goes to cylinders 3 and 4 via the push rod tubes and drains down the braided line to a line which replaces the red cap and carries the oil to the oil tank. Cylinders 5 and 6 have the same thing going on their side.

By the way, on an R985 or R1340 that ring on the front isn't oil. It's a manifold for the front spark plug wires, visible in this pic of the T-6 we had.
28331
I hope this hasn't been too boring. Lots more to come.

jrevens
07-01-2021, 05:14 PM
That's very cool, Alex. Can't wait to see it in person someday!

Freedom2
07-01-2021, 06:14 PM
How Exciting Alex!!! Your knowledge is very helpful for someone like myself that isn't, so thank you!!!!!!

alexM
07-05-2021, 05:45 PM
Armed with Jerrytex's rib relief scenario above I carefully relieved the inboard edge of my #1 cap strip to allow the left wing to fold completely. I made the same relief in the right rib so it would look intentional. I also visited my airport neighbor Nate to look over his 912iS installation and that always gives me another chance to look at what someone else did on their Kitfox. Nate had the exact same condition on his left wing and made a relief also. I had been concerned that the relief would look like a mistake every time I looked at the plane but it turns out the aluminum fairing which gets installed at the wing root covers it up anyway.

Last Thursday I spent two afternoons preparing the fuel tanks. On the scale of enjoyment it ranks right up there with prepping for a colonoscopy. One afternoon was spent cleaning off the sticky foam used as packing protection, and sealing up the tanks with strapping tape so I could huff a bit of air inside and leak test the tanks with soapy water. That test went great. Knowing people have had problems in the past with tape coming off the various tank ports I spent the time looking for the strapping tape called for in the manual. I cleaned the area around each hole carefully with acetone, let it dry and then made double layer patches of strapping tape.
28361
I rubbed the tape hard before putting on the second layer, larger than the piece under it, and rubbed it for good luck too. These pieces held up great for the leak test. For the acetone flush though, I learned what everyone else knows which is that acetone is kryptonite for tape. It's as if the tape is spring loaded once it gets soaked, which takes only seconds.

Pondering a solution I remembered that my small parts drawers contained various sizes of tapered rubber plugs. They're squishy enough that you can twist them and screw them into the threaded holes. It worked fantastic! For the fuel filler holes I grabbed one of the gas caps (I have extras...) which I determined were either made wrong or for a different type of tank because the vent tube points at about 10 O'clock when viewed from above. With the defective gas cap in place I used one of the smaller tapered rubber plugs to close up the vent.

28362

It worked so well that you have to be careful when removing the first plug after sloshing with acetone. The built up pressure vents like a surfacing dolphin when released. This business card was in the drawer with the plugs. I looked them up to make sure they actually supplied those plugs and that the company survived 2020. Happy to say that they did. The plugs are obviously intended for masking off holes prior to powder coating but they definitely work for sloshing tanks. I used the large blue for the 3/8" NPT holes and the smaller blue ones for the 1/8" NPT holes. I used a black one for the fuel vent tube.
28364
It took three gallons of acetone before the stuff I poured out looked the same as what I poured in, making it a $75 task to get my tanks clean at today's prices. I did get out a bit of flakey residue which I captured in a paint strainer, so it's definitely an exercise worth going through.

A question for the gallery:
Still on my "I seem to have two of everything" theme, I have two different types of finger strainers. I have a pair of fine mesh and a pair of gravel catchers. At first I thought the gravel catchers were older but the bag has a Series 7 designation on the sticker so it can't be that old.
28365
Which one is preferred?

alexM
07-05-2021, 06:13 PM
28366
I was able to spend about half of yesterday at the hangar working my white board list, and first up was fitting/locating the butt ribs. Late last week I managed to screw up two of my existing red powder coated butt rib fittings because the tip of my drill was wandering. Lucky for me I now had an opportunity to use the parts I bought in error (didn't realize I already owned them). The new ones were white but I figured by the time I ground the lengths to fit they would need refinishing anyway, and they do. I'll strip them completely and paint them red to match the rest of my upper cabin structure. I started my build session by drilling up the two holes like I had screwed up in my previous session. This time I used a center drill and then the #30 in my drill press, but doing so required I change bits constantly. Oh well, the price of 'pretty good'.

It wasn't until I had everything clamped in place and ready to drill that I realized my standard length #30 wasn't going to reach in either of my drill motors. I knew I had a Kitfox supplied 12" bit at home and this was the time to use it. But I had about used up my day so I cleaned up my tools and went home for the night. The pic above shows what it looked like ready to drill.

This morning I went back over to the hangar and drilled the butt ribs to match my steel fittings. Looking at my white board list it is quite obvious now that the next step is to epoxy varnish all the wood on the wings. My plan is to take them home for that since I don't think my hangar neighbors will be fond of the smell of the epoxy (it's a bit "hot"). When I made that decision earlier today it was starting to drizzle a bit. Since I use an open trailer to transport my wings I decided to occupy myself doing other tasks.

So I pulled out the tub which contained my fuel system components. I removed the seat pan from the plane and installed my aluminum header tank (you guessed it, I sold the plastic one almost immediately when I got my project). The series 5 doesn't have the welded tabs like a series 7 does so I used Adel clamps. My first attempt was improvised and I had the ears of the Adel clamps all pointed inboard. That resulted in the tank being up fairly high. It might have been okay but I went through the series 7 manual and the ears of the welded tabs point towards each other. The manual also calls for AN3-4A instead of the AN526 (?) screws. I had all that stuff on hand so I corrected the orientation and hardware selection. This installation is much lower than the first attempt and sits perfectly level.
28367

I then spent about an hour laying out fuel hose and measuring the lengths from the tanks to the firewall. When I visited Nate he had just removed all the hard lines from the header, through the fuel shut off valve and to the firewall bulkhead fitting, and replaced it all with -06 AN hose & fittings. I'm strongly considering doing the same. I should have taken pics of his routing but didn't, so I got to try different scenarios on my own. When I got home tonight I looked at Harlan Payne's build thread because I know he just routed lines. He used the hard stuff but I did see that he came to the same conclusion that I did, which is that the aft end of the fuel shut off valve should have a 90 degree fitting which points down, and a straight fitting going out the front.
I also looked up my fuel valve to see what thread size it uses, and found that it's 1/4" NPT. So it seems like the shutoff valve is the most restrictive opening along the path.
28368
With that planning done I test fit the seat pan to make sure I still have easy clearance between the seat and the header tanks. And since I was laying under the plane looking at stuff I grabbed my drill and drilled/reamed the holes for my baggage compartment floor. I think I'll copy what someone else here did and use hardware which comes up through the baggage compartment floor and is fixed in place, so all I have to do is spin off the nuts inside the baggage compartment to pull the floor out. I'll top it off by using some D rings at those locations.

jrevens
07-05-2021, 06:55 PM
...


For the fuel filler holes I grabbed one of the gas caps (I have extras...) which I determined were either made wrong or for a different type of tank because the vent tube points at about 10 O'clock when viewed from above. With the defective gas cap in place I used one of the smaller tapered rubber plugs to close up the vent.

28362



A question for the gallery:
Still on my "I seem to have two of everything" theme, I have two different types of finger strainers. I have a pair of fine mesh and a pair of gravel catchers. At first I thought the gravel catchers were older but the bag has a Series 7 designation on the sticker so it can't be that old.
28365
Which one is preferred?

Hi Alex,
I think you can find multiple posts on this forum describing carefully bending the vent tubes on the fuel caps for proper alignment. It actually works quite well... I don't see any obvious "twisting" or distortion where it (mine) was torqued. Install the cap and grab the tube close to the bend and slowly bend it into proper alignment. I doubt that your caps are "defective".

As far as the strainer goes, I learned years ago that you want a fairly course finger-strainer at the tank outlet. It has less chance of clogging and interrupting fuel flow completely. It just needs to stop any fairly large stuff that may interfere with valve operation, etc. Think of it as the first stage in a multiple filter arrangement. I'd use the one on the right. I'm sure there may be differing opinions .

alexM
07-06-2021, 08:57 AM
John,
Thanks for both of those tips. I would have thought that vent tube would twist right out of the cap if I put any load on it. Since I have two known good caps I've got nothing to lose by giving them a twist as you suggest. Then I can keep a spare cap in the plane for "someday".