Project 5 build thread [Archive] - Page 2

alexM

07-12-2021, 11:19 AM

Well I managed to drag out my fitting/installation of jury struts over two days. It wasn't so much about the drilling and much as it was about being meticulous in my alignment and checking everything over several times before reaching for that drill.

My most recent shipment from Kitfox included new fittings for the lift strut/jury strut attachment and the prefabricated one piece brackets used at the wing spar/jury strut end. Those one piece brackets are the way to go for sure.

I decided to fit the skinny (light) round tube jury struts instead of the aero tube ones I have. Once I got the left side where I was happy I realized that I should fit the right side before making any chips. I was glad that I did that because the right side seemed like it was going to be off a ways. That, and it also looked like I would need to grind away so much material on the tab which attaches to the upper end of the front jury strut that the bolt would be up inside the fabric covering. That right side jury strut also seemed like it would be more inboard than the left.

Needless to say the drill stayed on the bench until I figured it out. My youngest son showed up about that time. Being a model airplane builder himself he's got a very good eye for straightness. After about 15 minutes he came to the conclusion that my right side jury strut was twisted a bit. He fudged things around until it everything was symmetrical and had established that it was the front leg of the jury strut which needed some love.

I decided to call it a night at that point and return the next day. I started all over again and confirmed exactly what my son had found. At the start of yesterday's build session I created 3 more red neck plumb bobs and spent quite a while staring at everything, and having all four strings hanging made it super obvious where that twist was in the right jury strut.

Super happy to say that by yesterday afternoon my jury struts were perfectly rigged, symmetrical from side to side and that they are now bonded/riveted to the spars. I had hoped to pull the wings off and have them back home in my one car garage for varnishing but that didn't happen. I'm hoping to get that done this evening.
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Fitted and Cleco'd but not yet bonded.

As a side note, once I had my brackets located perfectly I pulled off the round tube jury struts to see if it would be possible to use the aero tube struts in the same location. That is a big "no", so that experiment is over.

In other news
I've been spending some time with my EAA Solidworks seat and have come pretty close to working out a forward boot cowl. It will take up the space from the firewall to the back of the engine. Still very much a work in progress, I need to split this piece in two so it can be installed/removed with the engine in place (duh) and add an access door for the oil filler/dipstick.
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Freedom2

07-12-2021, 11:59 AM

alexM

07-18-2021, 10:16 PM

Alex, good job with the use of solidworks. So I take it that when you receive your engine you will be making your fine adjustments with the forward and vertical positioning of the engine or do you already pretty much have that finalized?? I'm just wondering how close your final measurements will be to my mockup I did on my model IV.

Robin,
My engine mount design is pretty solid in terms of vertical height and distance from the firewall. I'll send you some dimensions.

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Today I got my first coat of epoxy varnish on the wings. I was concerned that I bit off more than I could chew in terms of the quantity of epoxy varnish I mixed up, and that it would start to gel before I could get everything coated. In the end I had sufficient varnish to coat all the ribs, false ribs and butt ribs on both wings. I even had time to go back over everything for any spots I missed and to add some where it had soaked in and looked dry.
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After that it was time to prep the aluminum flaperon attach brackets which get bonded/riveted into the tail end of the wing ribs. Here they are with Alodine completed.

Freedom2

07-19-2021, 08:25 AM

Thank you very much!!!

alexM

07-21-2021, 12:56 PM

Well my planetary impact detector arrived yesterday. I also got some hardware and some more epoxy varnish but those aren't as exciting.
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I now have two coats of varnish on the wing ribs. I'm away from the garage for a day but when I get back to it I'll look everything over carefully for missed spots and decide if I'm going full boat with sanding and a 3rd coat.

airlina

08-01-2021, 04:18 AM

Hi Alex, you may already know about this guy, but in my travels at OSH, I ran into this guy with a verner radial on his kitfox , and thought you may want to know about him. Apparently he recently did this install to relace a Rotec with the verner. Might be a helpful resource during your upcoming engine install. Bruce N199CL

airlina

08-01-2021, 04:21 AM

A couple more, Bruce

alexM

08-01-2021, 05:57 PM

Bruce,
Thanks for taking those pics and posting them. I've talked to Ted on the phone for over an hour and exchanged several emails with him. The plane belongs to a customer of his and it was in the Rotec booth a couple of years ago. His installation is the Scarlett 9 cylinder which is pretty awesome. I was stoked to see a video of his first engine run and first flight a few months back. They were having vibration issues with the old 3 blade Ivoprop and had a 2 blade Culver on order. He told me the lead time for the Culver was several months so that must be a borrowed example installed for Oshkosh.

Kicking myself a bit for not making more effort to get to OSH this year. Pretty much everyone I know made it including all three US reps for Verner, and of course the whole Kitfox crew, my warbird friends, fellow instructors, former students, yadda, yadda.

My excuse is that I had ribs to varnish and fuel tanks to bond in. Next year for sure...

alexM

08-14-2021, 10:43 AM

I just put up the latest episode of my build video, which includes a sneak peak of a plane I will be ferrying from California to Washington in the coming days.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oF81g6liVqU

Eric Page

08-15-2021, 08:44 AM

...sneak peak of a plane I will be ferrying from California to Washington in the coming days.
Neato -- that's going to be a fun trip! If you need ballast for your familiarization and test flights, I'm available... :rolleyes:

Speaking of markings in foreign languages, the airline I used to work for purchased a well-used CRJ-200 from a storage facility in Russia, reconfigured a few items on the flight deck, gave it a paint job and put it into service. A couple of weeks later a passenger asked the Flight Attendant what a cabin placard meant. The aircraft was grounded as soon as the Captain wrote up a cabin full of placards written in Cyrillic text!

alexM

11-21-2021, 10:58 AM

Dang it's been a long time since I've updated my build thread. Thankfully that doesn't mean I haven't been building. For those of you who like to see the video version here is that most recent one I posted:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KUYtmxAmXIs
If you're not into videos that's fine too. The Cliff notes version is that my fuel tanks are bonded in, my #2 ribs and the last piece of trailing edge are in place, I've installed false ribs on the lower fuel tank surface and moved on from there. I have to admit that the floppy piece of cap strip on the #2 rib kicked my butt until I stepped away from the project for a while. Once I realized I was the only Kitfox builder in history to find those a challenge I started over and got through those quickly. So a builder hint: If you seek guidance in the build threads and videos of your contemporary builders and don't find anything it means you're thinking too hard.

I whipped out my flaperons and learned how to squeeze solid rivets only to discover that my flaperons are scrap. I didn't screw them up, there are just long sections of the trailing edge of one of them which was never bonded correctly. My flaperons are of unknown age so I can't expect the factory to replace them. I have a new set on order which I will drive to pick up once they are ready. Brandon said they now use Urethane instead of Hysol at the trailing edges and it is a much better product now.

Since the video above I've moved on to installing the Laker Leading Edge, beginning with chopping the supplied section of PVC material into 1.5" lengths and bonding them to the forward spar using the template. I also did a temporary work around by bonding and riveting the "junk" flaperons and used them to hang the flaperon attach brackets (I'm using the new Series 7 style). By using them that way I'm not dead in the water waiting for the new ones, and of course as a bonus I got to practice squeezing those solid rivets. The trailing edge of the flaperons is probably an ideal first project for that skill since access is super easy.

Builder tip #547, for those who are trimming the Laker Leading Edge pieces I accidentally discovered that my aerospace tin snips cut the material super quickly, leave a much better edge than the cut off wheel on my Dremel tool and it generates ZERO fiberglass dust. I'm still using the cut off wheel in the tight places but the tin snips are the way to go for most of it.

Other news
My prop finally came. Way back in June I rolled the dice and took a gamble on a lesser known prop company (Meglin) based Kiev, Ukraine. After many delays in shipping I was pretty sure I would never see the prop and had started considering my other options. Then last Thursday evening it arrived. It is absolutely beautiful and is exactly the prop I ordered. It is a 3 blade ground adjustable, solid carbon scimitar 2000mm (about 79.5") diameter.
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I weighed the blades and they are all exactly 1087 grams. The entire prop with the fairly hefty hub assembly and hardware is 10 lbs 12 oz. Who knows if this will be my final propeller I fly with or if this becomes a very fancy decoration on my wall but for now I'm quite happy. If I recall correctly I paid $1050 including expedited air freight.

And on the engine front, my engine importer had just received the parts for my Airflow Performance TBI fuel injection system. But for the past several days we've been going back and forth with design changes to my engine mount. Thankfully my EAA Solidworks seat is still functioning. Brett (my importer) has fabricated several of the pieces and should be welding up my mount this week. A quick peek for those who like pictures:
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So that's my random update. I'm headed out to my 1 car garage to finish cutting the Laker Leading Edge pieces. Hopefully I can get them drilled, cleco'd and bonded by the end of the day.

bbs428

11-21-2021, 03:25 PM

Heya Alex,

Glad you finally received your new propeller. It looks real nice, though five months is a long time to wait!

Is this where you got the prop? Composite - propeller.simplesite.com (http://propeller.simplesite.com/425962819)

I also have an older 5 as well (1994) and after reading about your loose flaperon trailing edge's it triggered
my memory that mine were as well. I smeared a thin bit of aero-poxy inside the trailing edge before I riveted them together last year.
They seem nice and tight with no movement nor anything loose but maybe a call to Brandon is in order.

Good luck on your LLE and the motor mount!

alexM

11-22-2021, 11:11 AM

Brett,
That is the correct web page for the prop, yes. The web site is a bit of a mess but Vladimir's english is quite good and he responds to emails to answer any questions.

I should clarify that Brandon said that with flaperons bonded using Hysol the owner can be expected to chase cracking (I'm assuming dis-bonding) over time. He said they have a demo plane using the urethane adhesive and no rivets and it has had no issues. I'm guessing they still recommend riveting though.

alexM

11-23-2021, 10:21 AM

alexM

11-25-2021, 10:01 AM

Time for some pictures of the business end of the Verner Kitfox 5. A few last minute adjustments to the engine mount design. These images also show the oil tank and the accessory cowl (I called it a boot cowl for a while even though I'm using the boot cowl for the 912). I've worked with the design of the factory supplied oil tank and found the best place possible for it. Because the Kitfox engine mount uses an attach point on the centerline at the bottom I had to shift the tank slightly to the left side of the plane. There's still a possibility that I'll ditch the factory tank for one of my own design but I won't make that decision until the bare engine and mount are fitted to my firewall.
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The fuel injection system pieces also showed up at the importer's facility just two days ago. He sent me some images of the throttle body on the engine in two different positions. Using the elbow would provide more firewall clearance and could be set up in either a downdraft configuration or side draft. Or my original was a side draft pointing straight into the back of the engine. The way it is shown here it doesn't have the straight adapter (to replace the 90 degree elbow). Either straight or 90 degree adapter will need to be modified for the two injector nozzles which go between the throttle body and the engine intake.

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The steel ring you see is the ring for the engine mount, thrown in for visualization purposes.

I have the two fiberglass Laker Leading Edge pieces trimmed and fitted for my right wing. As usual it goes much faster than the first time you try something. Hoping to to bond those pieces tonight or tomorrow.

Dave S

11-25-2021, 10:10 AM

efwd

11-26-2021, 08:19 AM

I hope your taking impeccable notes for those of us who are envious as hell of you with the Verner. I could be in need of a new engine in only a few years if I can keep this 912is running until TBO. Keep posting please.

Denalifox

11-26-2021, 09:00 AM

Inching forward. Laker Leading Edge trimmed, prepped and bonded on one wing. Working alone I had to bond one section and let that cure, then bond the (already prepped) outboard section. The inboard section came out really well and the outboard section is good close enough to let the smurf poo do the fixing.
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Yet another occasion I'm glad I'm not building a biplane.

Back when I first started this circus I remember reading how some builders scallop the aft edges of those leading edge pieces. I think doing so would probably get rid of any wavy edges which seem to be difficult to avoid.

Alex, If I recall you are using Oratex? those wavy parts on the aft of the LLE will go away once you final tighten the top blanket. I made a video about it earlier this year. Even now at -10 F up here none of that wavy-ness has returned as the fabric slacked from the really cold temps.

alexM

12-10-2021, 10:46 AM

Alex,

Congratulations on your progress. It has been particularly interesting to follow your build since you are going with the Verner Radial. Love reading up on recent builders activities as it kinda brings some of us greybeards back to that time in our kitfox history.

The final version of whatever I'm developing will be available to others. My engine mount design is already being adapted for the KF4 because Robin has ordered a 7 cylinder for his float plane build. My use of the 912 firewall and boot cowl is quite intentional to allow two way adaptability. I doubt the factory knows or cares about my installation, and if they do they probably think I'm a lunatic.

Eric Page

12-10-2021, 02:03 PM

Let's be honest, Alex. We all think you're a lunatic!

Freedom2

12-10-2021, 02:19 PM

The final version of whatever I'm developing will be available to others. My engine mount design is already being adapted for the KF4 because Robin has ordered a 7 cylinder for his float plane build. My use of the 912 firewall and boot cowl is quite intentional to allow two way adaptability. I doubt the factory knows or cares about my installation, and if they do they probably think I'm a lunatic.

Alex, and let me tell you I am grateful for that! I'm sure you will lead the way for many Verner/kitfox builds. Oratex is on both wings but down for several weeks now as stupid me broke my collar bone playing hockey last night!

alexM

12-30-2021, 01:32 PM

I had hoped to make a bunch of progress this week because I have from Dec 24 to Jan 4 off with pay. I have just one more iteration of fill and sand to get the wings smooth (as smooth as I'm going to get them) before covering. But like Geek (Gary) I'm faced with sub freezing temperatures which is slowing me down. It's all the way up to 32 today so I'm back to tasks which don't require mixing/curing fillers and adhesives.

I have fit the aluminum strips to mount the wing tips, which was pretty easy just using the manual instructions. Then I started fitting the Hoerner wing tips. I've got the right one trimmed, rigged and drilled. I got as far as getting the aluminum strips for the left wing fitted and drilled to rib #10 and I got the top part of the left wing tip trimmed to the scribe line.
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That was Monday night when I was also watching for the FedEx driver to bring my uAvionix package and also the flaperon jigs from Gary. The tracking numbers said they were on the truck and would deliver Monday by 7pm. With snow on the ground (even a trace in Puget Sound is pandemonium for driving) I wasn't surprised when around 5:30pm that tracking information changed to the next day. Uh, "or so".
I was expected to spend at least part of the week in Ephrata/Soap Lake so I used the FedEx web site to place a delivery hold on both packages, and headed to the correct side of the mountains around 7pm. I made it to Soap Lake around 10:30 where it was a snappy 5 F outside. I came back home last night to get some building done and found the package from Gary on my porch. I attempted to use the FedEx website to locate my uAvionix package but was unable to get a status on it, other than being somewhere in Tacoma. Phone and online support are both automated and not at all helpful. Everyone has their favorite shippers and shipping horror stories. FedEx is not my favorite.
I drove to their distribution center this morning and they were able to find my package in about 15 minutes, so all is well.
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Yet another GPS antenna I have to mount. Grrr.

[soap box moment]
In spite of my up front planning to eliminate extra crap I now have 3 GPS "bumps" that I have to make a home for. I'll of course be borrowing heavily from other builders who mount them inside the fuselage around the baggage area. I hope that I can at least pirate the GPS signal from this uAvionix device and route it to my ELT so I don't end up with yet another GPS antenna.
I cannot fathom why ADS-B requires a GPS more precise than the ones driving my EFIS system. I've viewed enough of my own ADS-B tracks online to know they are a VERY crude approximation of my actual flight path, and have significant altitude and position errors. Why, according to Flightaware I once toured south Puget Sound at -145' MSL. I was low, but not that low. A steep turn shows up as a kink in my flight path. Same is true for ELT signal. As far as I know it isn't transmitting my position at all until there's a crash detection. How precise does it need to be? Even if the error was 100 yards, are searchers going to arrive and be unable to figure out which pile of wreckage is mine?
[/soap box moment]

Moving on
John Roberts is almost done with my landing gear. I know all the cool kids are getting Shock Monster gear, which by all reports is a fantastic setup, but I'm not rock crawling and can't justify $5k for longer legs. John was pumped to find out I'm using the Verner radial and made me promise to fly it to Idaho so he can see it when I'm done. Happy to oblige.

With any luck my replacement flaperons will also be done in the next week or so and I'll drive to Idaho to pick up both the landing gear and the flaperons. I love a good road trip and I am my favorite shipper.

Brett Hahn, my engine importer has been working on my engine mount. We had discussed two ways to create the "sleeve" with what amounts to a 1/4" thick washer welded inside it. He tested both versions with his 20 ton press and neither deformed. Then he tested them to destruction and cut them so he could inspect the weld. The idea I had (cut slots in the outside of the sleeve so you can see the "washer" through the slots) turns out to be much easier with perfect weld penetration, so that is what he's proceeding with.
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Oratex
I've gone through the manual, I've watched the videos by Lauren (Denali Pilot) and Harlan (Kitfox Pilot) because they both covered with Oratex and I still had plenty of stupid questions. So I reached out to both of them and they responded quickly with enough answers that all I need now is a garage that is warm enough to do the job. First time ever that I've cursed the snow. I generally love snow because it screws everything up and makes people break routine and engage with each other in a way they normally don't.

Now I'm headed out to finish mounting that left wingtip. Then I'm probably headed to my hangar to retrieve the large roll of Oratex to see if I can at least get the big pieces for the wings cut and ready.

alexM

01-01-2022, 10:49 AM

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Left wing tip is trimmed and drilled. Usually the second of pretty much anything goes quicker. This one started out pretty rough but in the end it came out fine. And where I originally didn't like the look of the Hoerner wing tips I've seen some pictures of completed planes recently which have changed my mind. Still not crazy about the 3.75 lbs each though.

alexM

01-26-2022, 11:41 AM

Well I have officially broken out the Oratex covering materials and started working with them. There are a couple of art projects used to become familiar with the process and to validate the adhesive. My adhesive is still white as the driven snow with no clumps or curdles, which is a good sign, but the proof is in the peel test.

For that I employed some of my old series 5 ribs which just happen to fit the 1" wide strip requirement. Working from my old 2016 manual I made some test strips with 150mm of adhesive (two coats) and I also slathered adhesive on the bottom cap strip of one rib. While that dried I turned my attention to the test frame which is where you really learn how the materials are used.
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I dug out my old self healing cutting mat and the pizza wheel cutter (which might be the sharpest thing I have ever owned). I wish the mat was 78" so I could cut across the roll of fabric in one shot, but sliding it isn't the end of the world.

For the test frame I went to my local art supply store and bought frame pieces that a painter would stretch canvas over. The instructions tell you to radius at least one corner so you get practice stretching the fabric over contoured shapes. I got ahead of myself and had adhesive on it before I remembered. Not super worried about that since I've stretched plenty of model airplane covering in my life. I will say it is pretty enjoyable stuff to work with. I haven't taken the Harlan Payne hammer to it yet but that is coming.

I did learn a lot about the temperatures, pressures and hold time making the test frame which I didn't fully understand when I put the test strips on the rib. When I performed the peel test the first piece I put a load on peeled. Of the other three two passed and one peeled just a little and then held. Given what this stuff is for I consider the results to be a failure.

I went back over my outdated manual and then found a PDF from BAF which was much more clear and contained specific iron and heat gun settings. It also emphasized the need for varnish on the ribs. Well my ribs are varnished but the one I used for the test was not. And after making the test frame I was also quite sure I didn't put enough heat, pressure or duration on the test strips either.

So I whipped out another rib and got two coats of epoxy varnish on it before I left for Idaho.
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Eastbound, about 70 miles from Caldwell

That trip went great. The fine folks at Kitfox were able to complete my new flaperons so that I was able to pick them up in Homedale after visiting Caldwell, where I picked up my Roberts Bush Gear. I used my old spar crate and a uhaul trailer to transport the flaperons, and they arrived back home in perfect condition. The flaperons aren't super exciting (they look like flaperons) but the gear is pretty awesome. Visiting the Kitfox factory is always fun. Everyone is friendly and super helpful.
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This gives me the couple extra inches I wanted for swinging a big prop, but aren't full boat "shut up and take my money" TK1 Monster Shock gear. Anyone following my project knows I weigh everything, and this gear (including all the hardware) is 27.7 lbs. I've read that the Grove gear is 33 lbs but I haven't personally weighed them. I will be doing that when I remove them and test fit the Roberts gear.

Last night I sanded the new test rib with 120 just like I did on the finished wings, and I prepared over a dozen new test strips. I've got the two coats of adhesive on the strips and the rib for my second attempt. The other thing I did was to pull all the previous test strips off that first test piece, and it was super clear to me I didn't bring enough heat and pressure to cause the adhesive to melt completely. I will not be making that mistake again. If this second test doesn't result in 100% pass on all strips it points to my adhesive being suspect, and at that point I would have to resign myself to ordering a new batch. Thankfully Oratex hot melt adhesive doesn't contain any semiconductors.

Speaking of which
My last piece of high dollar electronic equipment on my shopping list was the Sandia STX 165R transponder. Inventory of those has dried up so they are either out of stock or the price has shot up $2-300. Aircraft Spruce showed "No Stock" but I noticed that the non R version (R is the headless one I want) was also out of stock but it had an expected date.

On a whim I emailed Spruce to see if they were ever going to get another 165R. A few hours later I received an email saying they were expecting one unit on Feb 22 and weren't sure when they would ever see another. That, combined with the non-adjusted for 2022 price was all I needed. I placed my order for that yesterday.

alexM

01-27-2022, 10:23 AM

I did my new peel test last night and they all passed no problem, so my adhesive (and technique) are up to the task. I'm planning on spending tomorrow getting the glue side of the fabric pieces marked so I can paint the adhesive in the right place.

The problem is it's cold outside and the forecast for the next 10 days shows low 30s at night, and I need to keep the adhesive above 41F until it is ironed in place. I can get my garage up to temperature briefly using a propane heater but that would be a lot of propane (and the moisture in the air that comes with it) to keep it warm for 12-24 hours at a time.

bumsteer

01-27-2022, 12:38 PM

Alex

You may want to consider waiting til it gets a bit warmer. I can't find it right now but I thought I remember ambient temp of 50F as a minimium. Don't forget the part you are attaching the fabric to will be a giant heat sink ( especially the fuselage), and if quite cold, and will require longer dwell time with the iron/heat gun to get proper bonding. I did some of mine when temp was about 55F and upped my iron/heat gun temps 10-20F and dwell time to help with the bonding. The Oratex itself gets a bit ornery when cooler also.

Rick

alexM

01-27-2022, 02:31 PM

Party pooper! Next you're going to tell me there is no Santa Claus.

I sent an email to BAF a couple hours ago but I suspect they're going to say the same thing. I guess maybe I'll be test fitting my landing gear tomorrow instead.

Plan B would be to trim the excess off the pieces I have cut for my wings and cover the tail surfaces inside my house...Hmm.

bumsteer

01-27-2022, 04:25 PM

No, I had reindeer tracks on my roof so he exists!! Plan B sounds good because when you start on the curved tips you won't want to be cold and miserable trust me.

Rick

alexM

01-30-2022, 09:39 PM

I got a little bit done this weekend.
I pulled the Grove gear off my plane and started the installation of the Roberts Bush Gear. Since I was pulling the wheels off I decided to split the rims and swap out the 6-6.00s that have been on there the whole time and put on the 26" Airstreaks. Something tells me that I'll probably wish I waited until the whole thing is assembled at the airport but really just want to see what it looks like (yes I'm 15 going on 58). The adult in me says I did it because I wanted to make sure it fit before I started covering the fuselage.
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I took the opportunity to weigh everything which is always an eye opener. The scale I use for measuring most parts has an upper limit of 33 pounds, which is what I have read the Grove gear weighs (can't find the source, doesn't matter). The main gear arch maxed out my scale even with the radius blocks, axles and hardware removed. So I took it home and weighed it.
Main arch=34.5 lbs
Radius blocks, axles and hardware = 6.25
Total=40.75 lbs*

(I have since found the "landing gear weight" thread and at least one post confirms the Grove is #40 lbs, so I'm not uncovering anything new).

So at 27.7 lbs "apples to apples" the Roberts gear just took 13 lbs off my plane.

I blew my opportunity to weigh the Cleveland 40-281 wheel assembly by itself but I did weigh the the 26 and 6 tires with and without the wheels and they're about 7 lbs each including the disc and hardware. If I do a Beringer upgrade I'll make sure to weigh everything again.
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A ready to mount wheel with 26" Airstreak was 29 lbs. Surprisingly the 6x6.00 was 15.75 lbs, which was higher than I expected.

Covering
I brought home my horizontal stabilizer and elevator and so far I have prepped the elevator for the Oratex Adhesive. I took it outside and used my rubber taco with 220 paper on it to scuff up the ribs, tips and powder coated steel surfaces where ever the adhesive will be painted on. It started raining before I could start the horizontal stabilizer so I'll have to savor that another day. The elevator has all been wiped clean and ready for surgery.

Using the updated BAF manual I took the suggestion to buy a bunch of cheap foam brushes for applying the adhesive. A way better option than the $14 brushes in the catalog.

I've now abused my test frame with 10 cycles of the Harlan Payne Hammer test. I'm hitting it pretty hard with a good size ball peen hammer. Some hits leave a small dent but I can remove it by waving it in front of my infrared heater for a few seconds - or just leaving it alone for a while. Even in my cold garage the dent heals on its own. Pretty amazing stuff.

I measured up my wing fabric and I can easily trim off the 76" direction and have plenty for both the wings and the horizontal surfaces (and rudder I'm sure). I'll be doing that tomorrow and staring in with the adhesive application.

Kitfox Pilot

02-01-2022, 08:26 PM

I've now abused my test frame with 10 cycles of the Harlan Payne Hammer test. QUOTE

Hahaha

Look forward to you starting your covering.

alexM

02-01-2022, 10:26 PM

I've now abused my test frame with 10 cycles of the Harlan Payne Hammer test.

Hahaha
Look forward to you starting your covering.

18 now.

I demonstrated the test frame to my youngest son today by hitting it twice and handing it to him. After his first swing he flipped my big ball peen hammer around and hit it with the ball side. I have to admit I cringed. It made a deep, dirty round dent in the surface - and the dent was gone by the time he handed it back to me. It's pretty tough stuff.

I was thinking the other day: I hope no one sees my plane at a fly in some day, elbows their friend and says "hold my beer".

The covering process has commenced
I had previously cut four 166" pieces of fabric (Right/Left, Upper/Lower) for the wing panels, but I did not cut in the chord direction. I needed the scraps from the 76" roll to cover my horizontal tail surfaces, so I went through the clown show that accompanies working in a one car garage to cut two of the pieces.

Next I repurposed the dining room table for preparing the four pieces needed to cover the elevator, traced them onto the adhesive side of the fabric pieces and applied two layers of the Oratex Hot Melt Adhesive to both the fabric pieces and the elevator structure. I'm no dummy, I covered the surface of the table with a thin tarp which is paper on one side and poly on the other (two layers thick, thank you).

None of that was particularly confusing. This morning I got the fabric on the lower side of the right elevator. Nothing like diving right into something with some radius corners and a couple of awkward spots where the small diameter tube hits the fat crosswise piece at the inboard end. In the future I might ease that transition with some balsa/foam and Hysol. But I didn't know that yet, so that was enjoyable.

The wisdom I had been prepared to follow was to do the wings first, and use the scraps to cover the tail. They're big but basically a big Hershey Bar so theoretically a good place to get handy with the process. But restricted to indoor work because of the low OAT for the near future, I didn't have much choice if I wanted to move forward. Oh and the BAF manual suggests starting out with the smallest pieces first.

So I fumbled around and got the lower right side covered. I had two wrinkles which looked pretty bad and a handful of very small wrinkles which bothered me. The guy on the 80 minute rudder video makes it look pretty easy (Note to self: Cub tail surfaces are that shape for a reason). I got the big wrinkles to go away and I got the small ones to almost go away. I won't have to worry about CG issues hauling around some big 'ole Lindy Award, but they really aren't bad.

I regrouped and watched some youtube videos on Oratex, including some made by Lars from BAF. Lars stresses that you should not attempt to smash out a wrinkle. I can only say that by the time you are in that position it is probably too late, but he's right.

My son was in the area looking for something to do. He has covered several models, starting when he was about 7 so the basics of fabric covering is not lost on him. Together we covered the bottom of the left side. Originally I was going to have him help me cover the rest of the right side, but then I realized I would have to paint adhesive on the new covering where the two pieces overlap. You have to let the adhesive dry, so that was out.

The job went much easier with two people. It seemed to go quicker even though we took several breaks. Score: No big wrinkles and slightly fewer small ones - which likewise only went away about 95%.
29790
I had to move to the kitchen island because there's an outlet under the counter.

The pic above shows the elevator bottom side up. I have just masked the perimeter so I can apply that overlap adhesive. Looking at the picture now I'm already having second thoughts about the tip. I should have cut that much closer to the edge since I expect to come back through with an edge tape of some kind.

After that dries my plan is to do the second offset layer of tape shown in the 80 minute rudder video. If any of you Oratex survivors has any other opinions on that I would like to hear them.

Kitfox Pilot

02-02-2022, 07:00 AM

The elevator is the hardest part so it should all get easier for you.
One thing I will add, on my silver there is a pattern if you look at the materal so I had to be careful to keep the pattern lines going the same way as I covered say the elevator and the horizonal stabilizer or you could see the difference between them.
I have no idea if your color will do the same but take a piece and turn it 90 degrees to the roll and lay it on there and you will see what I'm talking about if it does.
Harlan

Eric Page

02-02-2022, 06:17 PM

Woo hoo! Looking good, Alex. Huge step!

alexM

02-02-2022, 06:31 PM

Thank you Harlan, that would be a real forehead slapper to see the pattern in the fabric after you've covered everything. After reading that I took a piece of scrap and viewed it in good light in both orientations and I can't see a difference. Based on the way my pieces are cut they will automatically be oriented the same.

Even though my fabric is of "factory second" quality I had to look very closely to see what the flaws might be. I know the one's I'm adding will be more noticeable.
29791
I faked my own death today so I could finish covering the elevator. Funny, I was just trying to figure out why I can barely grip anything and then remembered all that tugging and pulling. My skills are increasing and the end result is good enough. The spandex effect is real. Even though I did a better job of stretching the fabric in those corners, the flaws underneath telegraph through just as I had been warned.

29792
Kitchen restored to its normal configuration.
The surfaces have been shrunk but not to their final condition. I need to work out my finish tape strategy and add the "seaplane grommet" holes near the trailing edge. Until then I have a crude, double chamber aneroid barometer.

Shadowrider

02-02-2022, 09:22 PM

Looking good! Make sure if you have any glue exposed to thoroughly remove it. It will yellow with time and become an eye sore on white.

alexM

02-02-2022, 09:29 PM

Thank you. I do have a few small areas. How do I remove it?

bumsteer

02-03-2022, 07:04 AM

Alex

Try the vinegar/water solution recommended in BAF Hints book(1 part vinegar to 3 water if I recall correctly). If it hasn't been heated it will come off easily. If heated and cured it still may work but you'll have to leave a damp soaked cloth on it for a while. I used it to remove cured glue from my elevator tubes but I had to leave the cloth on for about a hour keeping it damp.and scraping it off. Obviously don't try the scraping on the fabric. I used washcloths which is coarser than microfiber for scrubbing. Don't scrub vigorously as it will start to remove the color (ask me how I know). Oratex does have an uncured glue remover but several years ago HAZMAT fee was astronomical.

Rick

alexM

02-03-2022, 11:28 AM

Well that ship sailed on the elevator but it might help me salvage my clothes. I got some adhesive on my favorite pants in a place that looks very awkward. I tried the vinegar and water as soon as I discovered it but I didn't know how long I would have to let it soak.

The stuff on the elevator is just a couple of very thin lines, and thankfully on the bottom side. I was sure I was going to run finishing tape over it anyway which would cover it, but now I'm reading conflicting information. I guess not everyone uses finishing tape on the trailing edge, but the 80 minute rudder video shows it and so do a number of Lars' videos. Yet I think the BAF manual supplement is where I read that it's not needed.

jiott

02-03-2022, 11:39 AM

I would think you want finishing tape on the elevator and horizontal trailing/leading edges. These are areas very vulnerable to hangar rash and an extra layer of fabric would help a lot.

bumsteer

02-03-2022, 12:20 PM

Alex

It's been my understanding that if you have a seam then use finish tape. Don't quote me but I thought I heard Lars with that advice but can't remember where(maybe Oshkosh). Besides, if that's where the errant glue is, it'll now be covered.

Rick

alexM

02-05-2022, 10:10 PM

I really appreciate the input, thank you. I can say I've got tons of 50mm finishing tape and a big wide roll too. Now that I look at it, the wide stuff should be used along the hinge line. If I used 50mm there it wouldn't even cover the seam overlap.

29802
Tossed the Airstreaks on my new gear. Definitely gave it some lift.

alexM

02-08-2022, 12:32 PM

Interesting update to the Oratex process.

When I was covering my elevator I poured some of the adhesive into a cup so I wouldn't be contaminating it. I noticed some wispy clumps starting to form in the jar so I thought my adhesive might be toast and that I would need to order more after all. For those not using Oratex, the adhesive is not cheap.

I sent an email to Janina at Better Aircraft Fabrics to get a quote. Instead of that I got a call from Lars, who spent about 30 minutes with me on the phone. He told me that the wispy formations are normal, and they form because there is an air gap in the bottle when the lid is on. The air exposure causes the formations to begin. It looks sort of like the way ice forms on the edge of a puddle. He did tell me that if you get round globs it is a sign the adhesive is going bad. My last order came with some paint filters, so I asked Lars if those were intended to be used to filter out any clumps. He confirmed that is why the factory sends them, but that the weave of the filters is much to tight and prevents perfectly good adhesive from flowing through (which I also noticed).

Bottom line, it's all about the peel test. Filter out the clumps, do a test. If it passes, you're good to go. Pretty refreshing to have a company not sell you something you don't need.

Edge tapes
Over the weekend I got out my rolls of finishing tape and stared at my elevator for a while. Rather than experiment on my elevator I decided to get some practice. I found a board the same thickness as the small diameter elevator tubing, traced one of the corners onto the board and cut out the shape. Then I used my router to round the edge to simulate the elevator. I practiced the routine a couple of times. The tape is much thinner than the Oratex 6000 and by my second try I was getting it nearly perfect. I was able to peel the tape off before it cooled down so that I could re-use my wood piece.

I also obtained some 3/8" copper tubing which I have bent up to also mimic the corner radius of the elevator. I really wish I had done this prior to covering an actual airplane part. My current elevator is "good enough" but I can see that with some practice I could get excellent results. I hoped that Lars had some classes coming up this year. He said that so far they do not have plans for any class in 2021. They're going to Oshkosh but he said he doesn't like to run classes there because everyone who shows up has sunscreen and hamburger grease on their fingers, which makes quality work very difficult.

I'm currently on the fence about whether I peel the covering off my elevator and go for perfection, or whether I move forward. I just had Heather quote a SS7 elevator (which has more chord than the series 5), and just swap out later. Very tempting to go that route. I already know the elevator will fit inside my car, so no need to drag a trailer to Idaho this time.

Lars recommended that I join his Facebook group for BetterAircraftFabrics because he posts a lot of do/don't examples, videos and discussions with other builders. I'm already finding it a valuable resource.

alexM

02-08-2022, 01:08 PM

Oh, a bit more from my call with Lars. The cleaner used on the installed fabric when you prepare to glue on the overlapping piece is Isopropyl alcohol. No need to overpay for a mystery solvent.

More importantly, when I asked him about (possibly) removing Oratex covering he told me to set my heat gun at 450-480F which would cause the glue to fail but not burn the fabric. To get the cured, activated adhesive off of the structure he said to use Citristrip. I see it available from Home Depot for $7.99/gallon so it's cheap. He says it's lousy paint remover but the one thing it does well is remove Oratex Hot Melt Adhesive.

Denalifox

02-08-2022, 01:52 PM

alexM

02-08-2022, 09:51 PM

Alex, one tip, if you ever have some not so great spots say around the radius on the horizontal and you plan on covering with 2" tape. Use adhesive to fill on the "voids". Since tapes are 600 and thinner they show everything underneath. Filling voids and stepped transition points with glue help hide some of those.

I wish I had a chance to learn all these tricks before I got started. I plan on practicing more on test pieces to see if I can get my skills up.

The brown truck showed up today
29826
That is my Sandia STX 165 R mode C transponder. It's about half as big as it looks in the ad pictures (my pocket knife is pretty small), which is fine by me. After zero inventory for a while, Aircraft Spruce sent me that over two weeks before it was expected - and at an un-adjusted price I might add. My plan is to put this aft of the seat pan somewhere. This R version is headless and will be controlled by my MGL MX1 displays, and ADS-B in/out will be handled by my Echo UAT.

So all my avionics, engine monitoring etc expensive bits are on hand. I don't have my wing tip lights/strobes or my landing lights but I know what those parts will be. I think I can officially start planning my electrical layout and wiring.

alexM

02-13-2022, 12:47 AM

I slapped together another video, mostly showing the schooling I'm getting in Oratex.

https://youtu.be/o-U3mwH-dWw

My plan is to get really good at it so I decided to do another test piece. Pretty easy to make and gave me lots of practice on those tricky Kitfox elevator corners.

alexM

02-20-2022, 10:50 AM

We had a couple of days where it was probably warm enough I could have at least got the covering on the bottom of one wing, but now we're back to night time lows in the 20s and I've got plenty of ways to screw up the covering job without those pressures.

So I decided to turn my attention to things I can do inside. One was this fake image I put together to serve as a thumbnail for my videos. I used DaVinci Resolve which I edit my videos with to "photoshop" a Verner 7 cylinder engine onto my fuselage. I'd like to say I also photoshopped the the clutter in the background, but my hangar is a bit of a mess currently. And by currently I mean for the past couple of years.
29911
I had to find a picture of a 7U that was at the same viewing angle as an existing fuselage picture and got pretty lucky.

And speaking of fake, another indoor activity which could be performed would be to convert my Solidworks model into the mock up/test mule for my instrument panel. I have the factory supplied panel and I have my avionics so I decided to sacrifice the factory panel. I could have used a sheet of plywood with some brackets along the bottom but for the final product I will have a panel CNC cut with all the engraving, so this seemed like a good use for the panel I have.
29912
Above is one of the design iterations I came up with, and which I went back to. I just like the simplicity of the switch logic. So I used masking tape and got out my measuring tools and created the layout on the aluminum piece. For the rectangle cutouts I knew my dremel tool would not be up to the task because you have to hold the tool at an angle and you're doing it all freehand. So I invested in a 3" cutoff saw which had a fence making it like a Skilsaw with the blade perpendicular to the surface, and clamped straight edges to help guide me. Holy smokes did I butcher the job. There's a reason I spent all those years doing CNC work. I'm glad I wasn't counting on putting this panel in my plane!

I have a picture of the bare aluminum piece but I'm not going to post it. People break out of prison and do better metal work. Suffice it to say I filled some gouge marks with Hysol and primered the panel before anyone could see it.
29913
29914
The MGL MX1 displays have a very narrow flange on the sides so they don't cover up mistakes. You can see where I put in the hole locations for the switches and breakers but intentionally left them undersized until I have physical parts in my hands. So...

While I was waiting for the Hysol to cure I went to the B&C website to put together an order for switches. Doing that has already initiated my first revisions. I had expected to find a single pole, single throw OFF-(ON) switch to use for starter engagement but the closest I'm finding on the B&C site is a dual throw (ON)-OFF-(ON). I suppose I could leave one side INOP or wire it so you could push switch either way for the momentary (ON) feature. What I will probably do is ditch the switch and the guard and use their S895 push button switch with the shroud, which I may already own an example of.

Then there's the circuit breakers. I know Eric warned me that these would add up quickly, and at $27/each that is no lie. The obvious solution is the automotive style fuse blocks which have the added benefit of having the bus bar built into them. I'm not thrilled when I see those fuse blocks visible on the panel so if I go that way I will either bury it under the panel where some gymnastics are required to access them on the ground, or I'll copy some other folks and put a small cover plate on the panel where I have my breakers shown and hide them that way but still make them fairly easy to access. Decisions!

I do occasionally see people selling Klaxon breakers on Barnstormers for more like $5/each so I'm going back through the spec sheets for my electrical components to fine tune my amperage values.

Eric Page

02-20-2022, 12:20 PM

I had expected to find a single pole, single throw OFF-(ON) switch to use for starter engagement but the closest I'm finding on the B&C site is a dual throw (ON)-OFF-(ON).
Alex, the switch you want is the S700-1-8 (https://bandc.com/product/toggle-switch-single-pole/?attribute_configuration=-8+%28ON%29-ON). It's a SPDT ON-NONE-(ON). Just wire ground to the center common contact, ignore the maintained ON contact (that will be your OFF) and use the momentary (ON) contact to energize the starter relay. The S700-1-8 will look and function identically to a SPST OFF-(ON).

Depending on how your ignition and starter are wired, you might consider the S700-2-51. It's a progressive transfer DPDT OFF-ON-(ON) switch. That means that in the ON position, the ignition is powered, and in the (ON) position, both ignition and starter are powered.

The S700-2-50 (SPDT OFF-ON-ON) performs a similar progressive function for battery and alternator (first ON for battery, second ON for battery and alternator).

alexM

02-20-2022, 04:10 PM

Alex, the switch you want is the S700-1-8 (https://bandc.com/product/toggle-switch-single-pole/?attribute_configuration=-8+%28ON%29-ON). It's a SPDT ON-NONE-(ON). Just wire ground to the center common contact, ignore the maintained ON contact (that will be your OFF) and use the momentary (ON) contact to energize the starter relay. The S700-1-8 will look and function identically to a SPST OFF-(ON).

Depending on how your ignition and starter are wired, you might consider the S700-2-51. It's a progressive transfer DPDT OFF-ON-(ON) switch. That means that in the ON position, the ignition is powered, and in the (ON) position, both ignition and starter are powered.

The S700-2-50 (SPDT OFF-ON-ON) performs a similar progressive function for battery and alternator (first ON for battery, second ON for battery and alternator).

Thank you. So a newb question but, electrically, how is NONE different from OFF? And to confirm, the terminals for ON are different from (ON) in your example of the S700-1-8, so I don't need to worry about ON meaning full time starter engagement?

Update to my earlier post, I found my push button S895 switch and installed it on my mock up. I also dragged out my space shuttle switch guards to get a real life visual of what those will be like.
29915

Eric Page

02-20-2022, 06:46 PM

Thank you. So a newb question but, electrically, how is NONE different from OFF? And to confirm, the terminals for ON are different from (ON) in your example of the S700-1-8, so I don't need to worry about ON meaning full time starter engagement?
OFF means there’s a toggle position with open contacts. NONE means that particular toggle position doesn’t exist (the toggle can’t stop in that position). Since the -1-8 is a double throw switch, there should be a center toggle position; since it’s missing, the switch function is ON-NONE-(ON).

Yes, there will be three terminals on the switch. The center will be common, one end will be ON (maintained) and the other end will be (ON) (momentary). You’ll ignore the ON terminal and treat the corresponding toggle position as OFF.

alexM

02-20-2022, 06:56 PM

Thank you!

alexM

02-26-2022, 07:33 PM

My order came from B&C yesterday. A fist full of switches, battery contactor, starter contactor with all the spidery stuff already soldered on them, a real S895 (more on that later) and Bob Nuckolls' book The AeroElectric Connection.

Last summer I bought a copy of Marc Ausman's book Aircraft Wiring Guide. I've read mixed reviews of that book but I read through it and thought it was good. Now keep in mind my engineering background is mechanical with a lot of manufacturing processes thrown in. I understand watts, voltage amps and resistance well enough to not start a fire or destroy a piece of equipment. Looking back now, that book was written for a person like me and it was less about the exact methods of aircraft wiring and more of a "you should sit down for this" type of overview.

Bob's book is, as Paul Harvey used to say, "the rest of the story". I just started reading it this morning and it is full of great information.

I couldn't help but play with the new switches I got. Eric's description of the S700-1-8 was great. You pass through two spring loaded positions to engage the starter. I used a step drill to blow out the holes for all the switch locations to 15/32" which is perfect. I did not drill the small holes which prevent the switches from rotating since this is just a mock up/test mule. To prevent me from losing the indexing washers I just flipped them over and installed them.

In my CAD model I have one of those red, flip up covers on the starter switch. They weren't on the B&C web site and my searches of Amazon finds items which don't have very good reviews (ie, they work backwards or they don't positively turn the switch OFF when you flip the cap down). So until I get my hands on a good example of a red switch cover I used another space shuttle switch guard.
29931
29932
I think it would be fine that way assuming everything is placarded well. The purpose of the red cover I was looking for isn't to catch attention under non-normal conditions, it is to prevent inadvertent use. It seems pretty well protected as shown.

29933
Next, I pulled that switch assembly out and inserted the S895 that was in my order. The other switch I have sure seems like an S895 but it doesn't say that anywhere on it, and it has provisions for screw type ring terminals instead of the soldered connections for the S895. Frankly I would prefer the ring terminals but since I don't know what this other switch is I don't know what it is rated for. I know it's an unused 737 switch which I intercepted from a garbage can. If anything it seems more substantial than the S895, but I've got the real deal now so I have options.

I will have a sub panel with the throttle and mixture as others have done, so my intent is to put this panel in my plane now and see what the ergonomics are like with various configurations.

Show time
The Northwest Aviation Trade Show is this weekend at the Puyallup Fair grounds here in the PNW. I volunteered to work at the booth for the Cascade Warbirds, and because I'm there it seemed like a good time to buy stuff. I'm now the proud owner of a bag of 50 shiny new 1/8" Clecos and a set of WAT (Whelen) Blaze LED position/nav/strobe lights. The folks at the WAT booth answered all my questions and when I felt my wallet getting hot I asked to buy a pair. But they don't sell direct and told me to visit one of their reseller booths.
None of the resellers had a set of Blaze lights with them but Aircraft Spruce offered the lowest price and free shipping, so I can check those off my list.

The guy went to key in my order and asked my zip code. I told him and he said "are you Alex?". I'm starting to think I have problems.

The Blaze lights are very light and have replaceable lenses.

Eric Page

02-27-2022, 12:55 PM

I know it's an unused 737 switch which I intercepted from a garbage can. If anything it seems more substantial than the S895, but I've got the real deal now so I have options.
Hard to say what it might be. There are at least 13 of them on the flight deck but they all have black plungers, and all but one don't use the deep, guard-type mounting ring. Might be used somewhere that's only maintenance-accessible.

...until I get my hands on a good example of a red switch cover...
Here are a few switch guards from reputable distributors. Check datasheet measurements for correct fitment with your switch.

CW Industries GT-4R (https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/CW-Industries/GT-4R?qs=PZf3wErIXRD%2FWZL7NlTpvw%3D%3D)

NTE Electronics 54-921 (https://www.digikey.com/en/products/detail/nte-electronics-inc/54-921/11651902)

Bulgin TG1-RED (https://www.digikey.com/en/products/detail/bulgin/TG1-RED/2747965)

Honeywell 19PA217-NT (https://www.digikey.com/en/products/detail/honeywell-sensing-and-productivity-solutions/19PA217-NT/3072618)

...a set of WAT (Whelen) Blaze LED position/nav/strobe lights.
Did the WAT rep say anything about the legality of these lights for night operations? I've seen varying opinions on whether E-AB aircraft have to use TSO'd lights to be in compliance. The mere presence of non-TSO'd versions of otherwise TSO'd lights suggests not, but the internet begs to differ. For example, the Blaze product listing on AS&S (https://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/elpages/whelen_blaze.php) has this Q&A:

Q: Are the WAT Blaze LED lights approved for night flight?
A: No. These are not rated for night flight, daytime VFR only.

alexM

02-27-2022, 06:05 PM

Hard to say what it might be. There are at least 13 of them on the flight deck but they all have black plungers, and all but one don't use the deep, guard-type mounting ring. Might be used somewhere that's only maintenance-accessible.

Here are a few switch guards from reputable distributors. Check datasheet measurements for correct fitment with your switch.

CW Industries GT-4R (https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/CW-Industries/GT-4R?qs=PZf3wErIXRD%2FWZL7NlTpvw%3D%3D)

NTE Electronics 54-921 (https://www.digikey.com/en/products/detail/nte-electronics-inc/54-921/11651902)

Bulgin TG1-RED (https://www.digikey.com/en/products/detail/bulgin/TG1-RED/2747965)

Honeywell 19PA217-NT (https://www.digikey.com/en/products/detail/honeywell-sensing-and-productivity-solutions/19PA217-NT/3072618)

Did the WAT rep say anything about the legality of these lights for night operations? I've seen varying opinions on whether E-AB aircraft have to use TSO'd lights to be in compliance. The mere presence of non-TSO'd versions of otherwise TSO'd lights suggests not, but the internet begs to differ. For example, the Blaze product listing on AS&S (https://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/elpages/whelen_blaze.php) has this Q&A:

Eric,
Very helpful as always. The push button switch I have is black and was definitely on the center row of the P5 overhead. There used to be a lot of possible variations on the older planes.

Unless I'm mistaken every one of those switch guards you list work backward (I guess upside down would be more accurate). The orienting slot on the S700 switches points up (to ON). Those guards have the locating tab so that the red cover hinge would be on the bottom, and closing the guard would push the switch towards ON. If you're seeing that differently I'm all ears. Maybe I should get out my multimeter and verify how my switches work.

Lastly, and probably most important is the WAT light question. As it happens I volunteered both days at the trade show so i went back to the Whelen booth. The short version is just as you found out, the Blaze lights are not legal for night VFR. It isn't specifically about the TSO but it would be easy to make that assumption.

I think I had read some of the comments on the Spruce website a while ago and I made the (incorrect) assumption that none of the tip lights with the rear facing white light were legal for night flight. Like "nice try and very creative, but no". And that's not true either.

If you're in love with the WAT lights you can buy the Orion series, which are legal for night flight. They do have the rear oriented white light. And yes they are TSO'd, but as he explained it to me the TSO is about power consumption and brightness. They did test the Blaze series and they were almost compliant but didn't quite make it.

He said "Make no mistake, the Blaze lights are very bright - brighter than legacy incandescent systems. If you got stuck out a little later than you expected you could get home safely, but if you intend to fly at night you should get the Orion series".

I deal with TSO equipment as part of my day job. TSO doesn't mean better, anymore than Mil Spec means something is better. It's just a set of specifications, and proving your product meets those specifications costs money. Many manufacturers sell a given piece of equipment (COM radios come to mind) in both TSO and non-TSO form, and they are identical other than paperwork.

The Blaze lights are half the size of the Orion series. I have to fabricate the spot to fare them into my wing tips as it is, and the Blaze would require very little effort.

I looked to see if AeroLED was represented at the show, but I didn't see them there. Looking right now on Spruce's website it looks like lights from either Aero or WAT which are legal for night flight (whether TSO'd or not) is at least double what I paid for the Blaze lights.

So what am I going to do? I'm on the fence. I don't really intend to fly this plane at night. For cross country night work I strongly prefer an instrument flight plan and this plane will in no way be legal for IFR flight.

jrevens

02-27-2022, 06:32 PM

I know that Whelen, and probably other big manufacturers, sell those types of wingtip light assemblies in both "night flight legal" models and those that are not - I have the Whelen ones that are not. I believe that an often overlooked factor is that the installation must provide the proper visibility angles behind the aircraft also. I've seen installations on homebuilts that used legal lights with the proper brightness, etc., but were mounted on the particular aircraft wingtips so that they didn't meet those visibility standards and hence were not technically night legal. At least that what I was led to believe. Like you Alex, I didn't intend to fly my Kitfox at night, but it's nice to have something in case you have to come in a little late sometime... I'd never do that of course.

PapuaPilot

02-28-2022, 10:07 AM

I initially had a set of 3 in 1 non-TSO lights on my plane. Once I landed a few minutes after sunset and decided it would be prudent to upgrade them to TSOed lights. I got a set of AeroLED Pulsar NSP Experimental/TSO lights. They might be a little brighter than the previous set, but now I am "legal". I have flown a couple of times at night since then, but this is far from my normal mission of day VFR.

Like others said TSO = Approved / legal. They meet the requirements for night flight and ground operations. Remember that night officially starts & ends at civil twilight, not sunset. Approved position and anti collision lights are required for VFR flight at night (91.205), and they must be on to operate, park or move an aircraft from sunset to sunrise (91.209). There is no distinction for aircraft certification types here, which means the regs apply to all aircraft, including EAB. I think the gray area comes from the statement that approved lights are required for VFR night flight (91.205), but 91.209 only says the lights need to be on, without mention of them needing to be being approved.

As John mentioned, I have also seen EAB aircraft with the lights installed in such a way that they don't meet the visibility requirements.

Delta Whisky

02-28-2022, 03:48 PM

Phil - I'm confused and request more info. As I read §91.205 it is written for standard certificated aircraft (see the title and §205). What did you mean by "There is no distinction for aircraft certification types here, which means the regs apply to all aircraft, including EAB."? Thanks, Darrel

BTW - this reminds me of a copy of a section of the FARs sent by an unnamed member of this forum just a couple of days ago. We should all be familiar with these passages:

FAA Regulation: Part I, Section 1 (a) - (d)

(a): No pilot or pilots, or person or persons acting on the direction or suggestion or supervision of a pilot or pilot may try, or attempt to try or make, or make attempt to try to comprehend or understand any or all, in whole or in part of the herein mentioned, Aviation Regulations, except as authorized by the administrator or an agent appointed by, or inspected by the Administrator.

(b): If a pilot, or group of associate pilots becomes aware of, or realized, or detects, or discovers, or finds that he or she, or they, are or have been beginning to understand the Aviation Regulations, they must immediately, within three (3) days notify, in writing, the Administrator.

(c): Upon receipt of the above-mentioned notice of impending comprehension, the Administrator shall immediately rewrite the Aviation Regulations in such a manner as to eliminate any further comprehension hazards.

(d): The Administrator may, at his or her discretion, require the offending pilot or pilots to attend remedial instruction in Aviation Regulations until such time that the pilot is too confused to be capable of understanding anything.

Eric Page

02-28-2022, 08:45 PM

Unless I'm mistaken every one of those switch guards you list work backward (I guess upside down would be more accurate). The orienting slot on the S700 switches points up (to ON). Those guards have the locating tab so that the red cover hinge would be on the bottom, and closing the guard would push the switch towards ON. If you're seeing that differently I'm all ears. Maybe I should get out my multimeter and verify how my switches work.
Hmmm, I see your problem. The only idea I can come up with is to use the edge of a narrow file to add a new notch to the backing plate on the guard, 180 degrees out from the factory notch.

If you're in love with the WAT lights you can buy the Orion series, which are legal for night flight.
I can't really say that I'm in love with any of them, but I have the figure-out-how-to-attach-them-yourself fiberglass light mounting things for my wingtips, which are sized and shaped for the old Whelen incandescent tip lights. Since the Orions are a direct replacement for the old model -- and night "legal" -- I figured I'd just go that way and be done with it. I don't have big night flying plans either; I just want to be able to do it legally if I need or want to in the future.

PapuaPilot

02-28-2022, 09:53 PM

Delta Whisky

03-01-2022, 08:00 AM

It took me a while to find out the basis for what I said. There is a boiler plate statement in the operating limitations for EAB aircraft that says we have to follow 91.205. Here is a copy from mine.

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Thanks Phil - as usual, the devil is in the details. Would you agree that lights meeting the performance requirements of the necessary equipment is acceptable?

PapuaPilot

03-01-2022, 11:02 AM

Thanks Phil - as usual, the devil is in the details. Would you agree that lights meeting the performance requirements of the necessary equipment is acceptable?

If you are talking about position and anti-collision lights 91.205 is clear that they need to be approved lights. That means TSOed lights. You can install any kind of position & strobe lights you want and even taxi/move the plane at night (91.209), but you cannot legally fly the at night with out TSOed lights. FAR Part 1 defines night.

alexM

03-01-2022, 12:29 PM

If you are talking about position and anti-collision lights 91.205 is clear that they need to be approved lights. That means TSOed lights. You can install any kind of position & strobe lights you want and even taxi/move the plane at night (91.209), but you cannot legally fly the at night with out TSOed lights. FAR Part 1 defines night.

I have spent part of my morning going through 91.205, 25.2530, AC 20-30B, AC 43-217, AC 20-74 etc trying to find the definitive statement. I come to the same conclusion, that the key is in the non-emphasized word "approved". It would be more clear if it said "lights meeting the requirements of TSO C30b" or some such.

But it doesn't, so I can claim to be thoroughly confused and therefore exempt from any remedial training under FAA Regulation: Part I, Section 1 (a) - (d)

PapuaPilot

03-01-2022, 04:03 PM

I have spent part of my morning going through 91.205, 25.2530, AC 20-30B, AC 43-217, AC 20-74 etc trying to find the definitive statement. I come to the same conclusion, that the key is in the non-emphasized word "approved". It would be more clear if it said "lights meeting the requirements of TSO C30b" or some such.

Yes, the key word is approved.

Welcome to the club of the confused. BTW we have that bogus reg imbedded in some of the training courses that I teach. We even put it in a presentation for an IA seminar with our entire FSDO team in the audience . . . what a hoot, but they laughed too!

Like I mentioned in my first post (#308): Approved = TSO. But WAIT there's MORE!!! CFR 14 Part 1 has the definition of approved . . . which in this case means FAA approved . . . which means TSOed . . . which means TSO C30b. Easy peasy, what is there to be confused about. :rolleyes: Stop trying to comprehend or understand this or anything else or you are going to need that remedial training.

Sorry for geeking out on you. I've been working in the certified world for over 40 years, and about 10 years in the even more confusing experimental side.

alexM

03-11-2022, 10:19 PM

Sorry for geeking out on you. I've been working in the certified world for over 40 years, and about 10 years in the even more confusing experimental side.

Phil,
I appreciate the dialogue and the clear explanation. I've been dealing with part 25 certification for the past 3 years and it has been a steep learning curve.

Last weekend I drilled the holes for the forward attach points of my Roberts Bush Gear. I thought I had it set squarely to the fuselage when my youngest son came by. I explained what I was doing and he suggested measuring from the tail post to the center of each axle before I bothered setting it side to side. Damn kids. I eventually got everything within 1/8" and clamped everything in place and drilled up the four 3/8" holes (where the Grove gear came off) through the steel fittings in the top of the Roberts gear. That all went super smooth but I didn't have the right length AN6 bolts for the job. I put in some temporary bolts and closed up the hangar.

Today I went back with the correct AN6-26 bolts and replaced the temporary stuff.
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During the week I also spent some time on my instrument panel mock up. I used some scrap 1/2" aluminum angle to simulate the factory parts I have for the real panel, and followed the manual guidance on attaching them to the panel blank. This was the first time in my life I have attempted to set a flush squeeze type rivet. Word to the wise: Get your chops up on something you won't be staring at for the next several years. They're actually not terrible but I struggled. The hole centers were too close to the upright on the 1/2" angle. The rivets I chose were 4s, which I learned are not just slightly larger than 3s. They take some love to set.

A while ago I purchased an Avery microstop countersink tool, and I tried it out on this job. The depth setting part of the tool is nothing short of fantastic. I mean wow can you control the depth of your countersink. But yours truly was having difficulty getting a round countersink. The forehead slapper moment was when I realized that the cutting tool I was using had a #40 pilot and I was trying to countersink #30 holes. I'm guessing the job will be easier next time.

For panel braces the series 5 came with two unequal length 4130 tubes, squeezed on one end and welded foot on the other. Having manuals for both 5 and 7 I learned they now instruct you to use 3/8" x .035" round tube (wing stringer material) and squeeze them yourself. I did a test fit last week and the shorter of the series 5 steel tubes wasn't long enough to intersect the windshield brace forward/below the "X". So I squeezed up one end of two aluminum braces.
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So my mission today was to put the panel back in the plane to find a good length for the aluminum tubes. With a Spruce order came (2) 5/8" Adel clamps. I realized I made it to the airport with my arbor press (to squeeze the tubes) but not anything to cut them to length.

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alexM

03-13-2022, 09:22 PM

My latest attempt at a video

https://youtu.be/cQwbvbsThRQ

alexM

03-29-2022, 09:00 AM

I finally got the break in weather I needed to assure I could start covering. Oratex adhesive can't be allowed to get below 41F and preferably 50F before it is heat activated. I've had a few short breaks in temperatures but I kept finding details that needed to be completed before the covering went on.
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Bottom of my right wing

The Oratex fabric is very board-like compared to legacy polyester fabric so getting those cutouts around the lift strut attach fittings was concerning to me (especially since the forward fitting is tilted to a back-draft condition and the aft fitting has that tang for the folded wing). I could just imagine myself butchering those cutouts and trying to get the metal doublers in place. So I created a nicely shaped cutout in a piece of Mylar drafting film, taped it to the leading edge on the top side well back from the edge of the fabric.

I guess I should back up a little, since I mentioned this in a video but not everyone watches videos. For Oratex you need to make light pencil marks everywhere the fabric contacts the surface you are covering (so you can paint on the adhesive). Well there are lots of things in the way of that, so I came up with a trick to make it easy. To mark the fabric for the bottom of the left wing I put the fabric wrong side out on the right wing, and clamped it in place. I was able to easily feel my way along and mark everything in just a few minutes, including things that would be impossible to reach (like the false ribs on the bottom of the fuel tanks). The only difference between the right and left wings is the pitot tube platform which was easy to account for.

Back to the board like fabric and butchered cutouts, my approach was to position that previously marked fabric (this time it was right side out on the correct wing) with the pencil marks lined up at all the corners. With my Mylar template taped to the leading edge so that the cutout went perfectly over the forward lift strut fitting, I was able to wrap it over the carefully positioned fabric, then tape it to the fabric and remove the tape from the wing.
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Then I took the fabric with template on it to a big flat spot, then marked and cutout the opening for the forward lift strut fitting. Next, I bonded the metal doubler to the fabric in the exact right spot, because it would never be easier to reach. With only the adhesive required for the metal doubler, I set my iron to 90C which is enough to activate the adhesive but not shrink the fabric (at all).

While the weather was still too cold I brought the wing fabric in the house and applied the two light coats of adhesive to all the places I had marked out with pencil lines. When it was absolutely dry I rolled it up and set it aside until a warmer day.
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And that finally happened a couple of days ago. Some last minute scrambling at details I had brushed off (bracing the #1 rib to the tank and creating a metal doubler for my forward jury strut attach point), I was able to introduce the fabric to the wing yesterday afternoon. It really is a two person job but I was alone. Long awkward story made just a bit shorter, I'm thankful the Oratex shrinks as well as it does.

I worked out every single wrinkle and it came out pretty well. It is absolutely true that it telegraphs every bump like Spandex. There are some places we can't do anything about that, like the rivets on the trailing edges, or even the transitions between the sections of trailing edges, or pretty much every place you apply filler material to smooth things out) but I found a couple of epoxy varnish drips I didn't notice before. Oh well.

I hit it with enough heat to get out all the baggy parts, but will wait for the full shrink ritual until top and bottom are both covered.

I should point out that I only did the cutout and bonding of the metal doubler to the forward lift strut location. That forward became the origin for the entire piece of fabric, so with it positioned over the lift strut fitting I tacked the fabric over the leading edge, then went out to all four corners and tacked them in place. Only then did I cut through the fabric over the rear lift strut fitting and bonded the doubler in place there. Access to the aft fitting is pretty easy (the front not so much, especially with the Laker Leading Edge in the way).
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I still need to trim the tip and root fabric and do the wrap around there. I think I'll poke the holes in the fabric where my wing tip strips attach while they're easy to find (from the inside) before wrapping the fabric.

Eric Page

03-29-2022, 10:08 AM

That looks fantastic, Alex. Nice to see that one of us is making progress!

Geek

03-29-2022, 11:42 AM

Glad to see you are becoming an Oratex expert Alex. Think I'll tempt you over the hill when I am ready to do mine. Looks like you are doing a great job!!

Gary

alexM

04-04-2022, 03:21 PM

Eric Page

04-05-2022, 07:04 AM

Thanks for the offer, Alex! I'll definitely take you up on it, assuming I ever start making progress again. Amazing how easy it is to get buried in other garbage and lose momentum. This week is annual sim training...

I'd like to talk to you about the hangar as well. I need to get one put up in the next year or two (preferably before the Kitfox is finished) but I know virtually nothing about the process or costs.

Incidentally, Ephrata is where my flying career started. I soloed there at a CAP flight encampment in July, 1988.

Eric Page

04-05-2022, 07:08 AM

This just posted on YouTube...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Suzwqfcy1xA

Geek

04-05-2022, 12:18 PM

Eric and Gary,
Just let me know when you're ready. I'll come over and give all my typical bad advice.

I cranked out another amateur video showing my efforts at getting my wing covered. I've since finished trimming the root and tip ends and getting those wrapped over the cap strips. Doing the upper surface should be easier than the the bottom (hopefully I don't eat those words).

https://youtu.be/gHpj4zxHuuU

But then I ran off to the better side of the mountains to check out the hangar building process.
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After four years of haggling with Grant County, the Port of Ephrata, the airport manager, various building code discussions, moving imaginary lot lines, and of course dealing with builders and contractors it was finally time to get started. I wish everyone worked as fast as the builders do. On Monday a guy showed up to level the lot and dig the post holes. On Tuesday the materials were dropped off. Wednesday the vertical poles were in place. The picture above was taken on Saturday morning. At some point in the (hopefully not near) future I will inherit this hangar, along with whatever warbird we have at the time.
I think it is 56x44 with a 14' high opening. In theory it could house a King Air C90 or T-28. More likely it will house a T-6 and (part time) a radial engine Kitfox.

I like Eric, really appreciate the offer and I live on the better side of the mountain to boot !! I am down in Fallon working with the Navy so my progress on the Kitfox seems royally slow right now. I get home for a week and then I have to go to Jacksonville to help the daughter with some work on her house before she sells it and goes back out to sea. After that there is the Fly In at Kitfox. And after that - hell I have no idea but I'm sure it will be something. Will take a look at your video on the covering effort for sure and appreciate the time and effort you do to put those out. Envious of the hangar don't you know.

Gary

alexM

04-06-2022, 12:27 PM

Even though the night time temperatures took another dip into the low 30s I'm trying to keep up the momentum on my covering job. I got out the pieces of Oratex I previously cut to length for my upper surfaces and used my trick to pencil mark everywhere the wing structure comes into contact with the fabric. Step 1 was to cut off the excess which will be used to cover my horizontal stabilizer.

This shows the piece intended for my right wing, turned inside out and placed on the left wing. With the leading edge taped where I want it, and the trailing edge clamped as shown, I located the only penetration in the fabric (the fuel filler neck), applied the Ray Charles method of feeling the edge and marking it with a pencil, then cut it out with a single edge razor blade.
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Then I smoothed out any of the bagginess where the filler cap served as a tent pole and re-clamped the trailing edge. From there 'ole Ray and a pencil makes it a 5 minute job to located all the places of contact. Super precision is not required since you intentionally color outside the lines but just guessing I would say the lines are within 1/4" of real life (and well within the variation between the wings - and I know that because I built them).
I went ahead and marked the fabric for the other wing already, and had marked up the bottom fabric for my left wing a long time ago.
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During my lunch break just now I talked my favorite woman into helping me put the fabric right side out, on the right wing. I had a line masked below the leading edge where I was going to apply adhesive. This part is a sanity check to make sure the line is where I want it. Even though I used my leading edge template to mark the lines on both wings it is not an exact science. If the fabric is short of the line you would have unsightly excess adhesive visible, and if it's short then you don't have enough adhesive on both surfaces.

I just did a quick spot check after placing the fabric and it seems I might need to move my tape about 1/8" (possibly not once I get it all smoothed out). Super easy task. I will probably need to move my dining room furniture again so I can paint the adhesive on the three remaining pieces of wing fabric in one day. Not the most fun job but it is for a good cause. My goal is to cover the top surface of the wing shown on Friday and then hammer out as much of the left wing as I can during the rest of the weekend.

alexM

04-27-2022, 11:26 PM

I'm on the mend from tearing up a shoulder which messed up my covering schedule. This past weekend I was mobile enough to roll out the top fabric for my right wing, and both fabric pieces for my left wing to paint on the two thin coats of Oratex adhesive. When I was sure they were absolutely dry I rolled them back up and set them aside.

Today was warm enough that I was able to clean any dust off the wing, wipe the overlap area of the existing fabric with isopropyl alcohol and get two coats of adhesive on. About 4:30 I started attaching the top piece of fabric. I took a short break for dinner and got back to it so I could get all of the adhesive activated and thoroughly rubbed in place with heat before the temperature dropped back down to the low 40s.
30290
It was probably around 4 hours from the time I started until I stopped and took the picture. I've still got to trim and wrap the fabric over the cap strips (easy) and trim the trailing edge. No unsightly wrinkles anywhere though I will admit I had a bubble on the leading edge that I wrestled with for a while. I took my time and got it to go away completely.

In other news I got the email that my series 7 elevator was ready for pickup. I was already headed to central Washington which made a day trip to Homedale, ID feasible, so that is what I did. As always, everyone at Kitfox is very friendly. I was back home in time for dinner.

I started on my wiring schematics to make good use of my bad shoulder. I've seen some of the artwork put out by some builders so I wanted to do better than I might otherwise have done. Learning a new software package didn't excite me so I turned to Solidworks and went to work. I know it's far from ideal but I'm reasonably fluent in it and can draw anything I can imagine with it.

Since I have all my avionics I was able to measure everything and draw them up as 3D solid models. I worked quickly and drew each of them up as an individual part. The outside envelope is within 1/8". To save time I skipped including the hole patterns in the mounting tabs but I'll add those later. I'll be able to reuse the 3D models for any mounting brackets I need to draw up when I decide where they're all going.

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I'm not having very good luck posting images where the text is legible but with the ability to zoom and pan it is very usable. Here's a few close ups which will probably also be unreadable.
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Eric Page

04-28-2022, 03:34 PM

Sorry to hear about your shoulder, Alex. Glad you're on the mend and hope there's no permanent damage.

Your wiring diagrams are remarkable. Never seen anything like that before. Well done.

alexM

05-02-2022, 08:46 AM

Thanks Eric. Time and physical therapy are making every day better than the one before it.

On Friday evening I started covering my left wing. Taking what I learned on the right wing I did both lift strut cutouts and attached the metal doublers to the inside of the fabric (just like the Kitfox manual says). I had to fabricate the metal doubler for my forward jury strut attach point, drill the rivet holes, primer and bond/rivet it in place. Those two jobs and a very thorough vacuuming took me until Saturday afternoon to complete. I put the first coat of adhesive on the wing framework in the evening, and Sunday morning did the second coat. I let it dry and then started attaching the fabric in the early afternoon.

Not surprisingly, I'm getting faster and my quality is improving.
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And where I had set the lofty goal of getting both wings covered this weekend, I discounted the amount of time I would spend installing the pitot/A0A probe. I spent the afternoon reading threads on this forum to see when/how others installed the tubing.

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Now I'm switching hats and becoming a plumber. Seems like a fun distraction actually. I'm still considering stealing the idea of others by installing the OAT probe on the pitot platform, something I obviously have to decide before I go any further.

And while the main focus was on covering the left wing, I did revisit my right wing to trim off the excess, wrap the edges of the cap strips and plan my strategy for edge tapes.

alexM

05-08-2022, 08:20 AM

Checking in half way through the weekend. There will be a Mother's Day brunch interrupting my build schedule but still plenty of time to check off some more boxes.

I completed the pitot/AoA installation after a lot of head scratching and trying different ideas out. Cutting the over length tubes of the Garmin GAP26 probes isn't something that can be undone so I approached it carefully. I had acquired the tools for cutting, bending and flaring the tubing months ago and practiced quite a bit on scrap. But like I said that was months ago and getting recurrent on the real tubes didn't seem like a great idea. So I practiced on some scrap again. Then when I cut the GAP26 tubes I practiced some more on the excess scraps.

1. The tubing cutter is the same low tech sloppy junk you would use around the house. It does the job but I found it important to clean the ends up with my 2" grinder with a Scotchbrite because if you don't you often get splits in your flare when it forms.
2. The tubing bender works fine. When I showed it before I was cautioned that there are better ones, and I'm sure there are. But I was able to make it work very smoothly and it was probably the best tool of the three for this job. Its only real limitation is only having one bend radius but I didn't need variety for this job.
3. The Rigid 37 degree flaring tool is pretty dang crude for this task. There are cheaper tools and this one was about $100 so I hoped it would do a decent job. There really is a lot of subjective techniques that need to be worked out by the user. For example when you clamp the tube in the tool it is easy to over tighten and scratch up the aluminum tube (especially the actual Garmin tube). It's generally accepted that you start with the cut tip of the tool flush with the top of the clamp bars but for everyone that recommends a starting point they'll tell you others have the tube above/below flush by 1/8" or so. Finally there's finding out how many turns you crank the knob to form a nice flare before it splits. And it is a very narrow window between what looks like too small and splitting. In my case 2.5 turns didn't flare enough, 3 turns would split it wide open. At 2.75 turns it would result in a tiny split in the otherwise nice looking flare about half the time. I settled on 2.625 turns which leaves a slightly undersized looking flare with no splits.

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As I said I spent quite a bit of time figuring out how to pull this off. I wanted to be able to remove the pitot tube if absolutely necessary (say it gets full of bird guts or I have some kind of leak at those connections) and the design of the steel mast extension and the tube don't lend themselves to easy removal. The mast extension is installed from the inside of the wing, so it's there to stay.
My final version is shown above. Believe it or not there is just enough service loop there, and the bends in the tubes are staggered and at just enough of an angle that the fittings will pull through the mast extension. Then I got out bags of Nylon 66 wire clamps and screws and ran the tubing out to my wing tip along the upper stringer tube. I'm doubled up at both ends for strain relief, and every place the tubes came into contact with each other or a rib I wrapped it in silicone rescue tape (wrapping one tube first and then both together so the tubes don't actually touch).
I have mapped out a couple of locations for access holes but with Oratex I can put them in later, so for now there are none.

Oh. The steel mast extension came to me with no holes to attach the GAP26. I used a piece of drafting film, some tape and a sharpie pen to locate the holes on the outside of the tube but between the curved surface and my crappy spring loaded center punch which only marked into the powder coating, the brand new drill bit walked on every hole. Three of them were good enough that I could open them up just a bit but the fourth was not even on the right planet. I did the math on only having three of the AN526 632 screws and it would take about 2000 lbs to pull the probe out of the mast extension, so I'm going to just fill that fourth hole. Shh, don't tell anyone.

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Which brings me to the money shot for yesterday. With the pitot probe installed I could cover the top surface of my left wing, so I did. I've still got to trim and wrap the cap strips but I need to ditch the rotisseries to open up access at the ends. After that is done I'll be attaching the aluminum strips for the wing tips and starting on edge tapes.

jrevens

05-08-2022, 11:04 AM

…
1. The tubing cutter is the same low tech sloppy junk you would use around the house. It does the job but I found it important to clean the ends up with my 2" grinder with a Scotchbrite because if you don't you often get splits in your flare when it forms.
...

Alex - some random thoughts. I literally made thousands of flares during my working life… copper, aluminum and stainless steel. Like you’ve observed, it’s critically important to clean up the cut end. You need to eliminate the sharp edges (deburring outside and inside edges of cut) followed by polishing with something like 340 or 400 grit aluminum oxide sand-cloth. Lubricate the cone of the flaring tool with light oil, then clean the flare afterwards. Flared connections are strictly a metal to metal seal. Never leave oil or any thread sealant on the flare mating surface. In general it’s fine to use a tiny amount of lube on the back face of the flare and/or threads before assembly. This can prevent the tubing from twisting when tightening the nut.

alexM

05-09-2022, 07:12 AM

Alex - some random thoughts. I literally made thousands of flares during my working life… copper, aluminum and stainless steel. Like you’ve observed, it’s critically important to clean up the cut end. You need to eliminate the sharp edges (deburring outside and inside edges of cut) followed by polishing with something like 340 or 400 grit aluminum oxide sand-cloth. Lubricate the cone of the flaring tool with light oil, then clean the flare afterwards. Flared connections are strictly a metal to metal seal. Never leave oil or any thread sealant on the flare mating surface. In general it’s fine to use a tiny amount of lube on the back face of the flare and/or threads before assembly. This can prevent the tubing from twisting when tightening the nut.

Thank you John. I should have tapped into the brain trust here before trying to figure it out on my own. I considered using some lubricant but was quite sure any residue would have come back to haunt me. Those AN fittings are pretty amazing the way they work, completely dry metal to metal.
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I didn't get everything checked off my list yesterday but I did finish the main pieces of covering on the wings. I had to poke through the fabric where the rivets go at the wing tips, and then I turned my attention to prepping the aluminum strips (deburr, scotchbrite, clean) but stopped short of spraying them with primer. As "Geek" and I have discussed on the side, at $25/can for the 2K primer you want to make sure you have enough projects to use up a whole can if possible.

A few measly strips of aluminum wouldn't normally justify catalyzing a can but I need to get this done because these wings are headed to the hangar tomorrow. Last Friday I stopped by my local Wesco to have them mix up some of my red which is for my Roberts Bush Gear, so if I sequence things right I won't be wasting the can.

alexM

05-12-2022, 04:36 PM

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I took the wings to the airport yesterday. Where better to put them than on the airplane, right? I couldn't spend much time at the hangar because I had to get the U-haul truck back before they closed so I returned today to put the wing tips on (temporarily). It started to rain after I got the right wing tip in place so I snapped a few quick photos for proof and wheeled it back into the hangar. I got the left wing tip in place and that was about all I could get done today. I wanted to fit my butt ribs for real since the fabric is on the wings now but I need to have it outside again to fold the wings. Hopefully tomorrow has some clear weather so I can get back on track.

alexM

05-13-2022, 06:46 PM

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Today's sanity check. I loosely installed the horizontal stab/elevator, every piece of avionics I own (many still in their boxes), ELT, supplied wiring harnesses for each LRU, com/txp/ads-b antennae. Wing tips and flaperons are Cleco'd in place, instrument panel, both pieces of the turtledeck - pretty much everything I could lay hands on which would be on the finished product: 493.8 lbs. My target is to keep it just below 800 lbs from here and I think it's doable (it's going to be close)

I wanted to level it and get an "as is" CG but I was working in the sun and wind today so I'll do that another time. I know the CG of my mount, engine and prop so I should be able to determine a future ballpark CG, or at least learn something. Or not. I just know it's starting to look like an airplane.

alexM

05-29-2022, 08:17 AM

Having just given up my garage because of our move I spent some time at the hangar yesterday, brainstorming how I'm going to store my wings safely while covering the fuselage. I think I'm going to repurpose one of my wing rotisseries for the job.

It was very rainy so it was a good day to keep the hangar doors mostly closed, but that's okay because I've got some projects to complete before I get crazy with covering the fuselage.

So I turned my attention to the "where the heck am I going to put all these electrical components?" project. I've been eyeing the spot behind the left seat to put the COM and TXP but wasn't sure if it was going to work out.

I measured up the tubes (1/2" and 7/16" for my series 5) which I just happened to have some Adel clamps for. Then I took some measurements and decided I could get away with a 12"x8" mounting plate and from there I made a cardboard mock up and kept at it until I came up with a layout that will fit my MGL V16 COM, Sandia STX-165R TXP and the Echo UAT ADS-B module.

After a few iterations I came up with this:
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Like the cardboard, the hardware is just for mock up purposes
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I would appreciate any comments from the gallery on this arrangement. Putting these items here makes for short runs to the antennae and puts the headset jacks behind me, which I like.

I still have to work out the ELT mounting (it will be in the tail cone behind the stab trim jackscrew) and the various antennae for GPS (multiple), ELT etc.

Eric Page

05-29-2022, 10:14 AM

Clever idea there, Alex. It didn't occur to me to mount those sorts of items vertically, but I like it. My transponder is a bit farther aft, behind the control mixer, my radio will be under the boot cowl and my ADS-B is on the floor behind the header tank.

WRT your ELT, aft of the trim actuator is an awfully long arm. Do you need that weight aft?

PapuaPilot

05-30-2022, 08:01 AM

I put my ELT as far aft in the tail of my Model 5 as possible because I knew I needed as much aft weight as possible. Here is what I did with a ACK-04 ELT. The tray was self made and powder coated in yellow. I can just barely get the ELT out through the battery access cover to do the annual checks. I used stainless steel adel clamps to mount the tray, not the standard aluminum ones.

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airlina

05-30-2022, 01:52 PM

Hey Phil can you tell me where you sourced those SS adels , ACS has some carbon steel ones but didn't see the SS ones. Thanks Bruce N199CL

PapuaPilot

06-01-2022, 05:00 PM

Sorry Bruce, I don't know. They were used ones that I found at work.

Eric Page

06-01-2022, 07:11 PM

McMaster-Carr has them: https://www.mcmaster.com/adel-clamps/material~stainless-steel/

alexM

06-02-2022, 08:58 AM

Good research Eric, thank you. I think I spend almost as much money at McMaster Carr as I do at Aircraft Spruce and Kitfox. To your earlier question, I don't anticipate a raging CG problem but I don't think anyone has had a Kitfox 5-7 come out tail heavy. Maybe if I had gone with plan B and bought a turboprop (If I build another Kitfox...)

My plan is the exact location shown in Phil's pictures (thanks Phil!). I mocked it up and access isn't terrible, but it might require removing the stab/elevator which I've recently re-learned isn't that fun. I'm trying to avoid installing anything between the back of the baggage compartment and the front of the stab for access reasons.

In other news
I got to fly around the San Juans in a C180 early this week. Damn I wish those were cheaper and less thirsty. It was the most fun I've ever had at a job interview.

airlina

06-02-2022, 03:00 PM

McMaster-Carr has them: https://www.mcmaster.com/adel-clamps/material~stainless-steel/

Eric ,Thanks for finding those , never thought of checking Mcmaster Carr , apreciate your time And Phil thanks for the tip , you know how I feel about the aluminum clamps, won't ever trust them agin in a critical location. Bruce N199CL

jrevens

06-02-2022, 10:57 PM

Agreed, Bruce (& Phil). I mounted my ELT with SS “adel” type clamps that I fabricated myself. Also made them for multiple other places on my bird.

alexM

06-03-2022, 12:12 PM

For anyone wanting to order Adel clamps and wondering what size, the tubes in the rear of the tail cone (at least on the series 5) are mostly 7/16" but there are a couple of 3/8" and the lower longerons on 1/2". I just ordered plenty of all sizes and will have extra so just speak up if you want me to mail you some.

After scratching my head about where my ELT was going to go this morning I bagged the idea of putting it behind the trim actuator, or anywhere in the vicinity. The access with the stab, elevator and push-pull tube installed is truly lousy. If I want to do those kinds of contortions I would buy an Italian car. And yes, I know I could add an access panel back there like others have done.

I'm not 100% solid yet, but as of right now I will be putting it behind the baggage compartment on the lower tubes of the fuselage. By keeping it inboard towards the rudder cables I have space for the Adel clamps to wrap around the tubing but not touch the fabric (90% sure anyway)
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Just posing here, not final decision. That tray for the Artex 345 has enough holes I think I'll be able to mount it directly to the fuselage with the Adel clamps. Access won't be super convenient but doable for condition inspections. And while I used the regular Adel (MS21919 WDG) clamps for my avionics plate, I fully agree with the others that the ELT needs to be very securely located with the stainless ones that Eric found on McMaster Carr.

My avionics plate is very light. If forces are high enough to break it loose I will never know about it. The ELT has a lot more mass to restrain and could pose much more risk to the people on board if it keeps going while the rest of the plane stops. F=mA and all that.

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During my last visit to the hangar I copied some of the other builders on this forum and created another paper doll mock up to mount GPS antennae on, up near the top of the baggage compartment and off to the side. I really wish there was a way to consolidate the number of GPS antennae but apparently I'm the only person who thinks so. It seems odd to me to build a two seat experimental VFR plane and have it look like an airborne command center.

Each of my EFIS/EIS displays has its own GPS bump. My Echo UAT has another. My ELT wants GPS position, which I'm hoping to pull from the Echo UAT. Not sure if that is possible yet. If it isn't then I have to add yet another precision GPS antenna. I'm puzzled why a 406 ELT (or ADS-B for that matter) needs location more precise than my EFIS has. I guess you wouldn't want rescue crews showing up 25' away from your crash site and being unable to figure out which wreck was yours.

I've resigned myself to just putting the MGL bumps on the glare shield. They have a clear view of the sky and are located very near the EFIS/EIS displays. At that point my new shelf would only mount one GPS antenna,which seemed like a waste. Then I realized that my turtle deck is the aluminum style with a cutout in it, which would tend to block the clear view of the sky in the location I chose. My attempt to upgrade my turtle deck to the big one piece bubble type was only partially successful. I got my bubble but it was still the type that fills the hole in the aluminum piece, and I don't feel like "investing" more money into it.

So now I'm looking at two different places. One is in the monkey bars above the occupants and the other is on my boot cowl, right on the centerline.
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Eric Page

06-03-2022, 06:22 PM

I just ordered plenty of all sizes and will have extra so just speak up if you want me to mail you some.
I'd buy four of those SS Adel clamps, if you wouldn't mind setting them aside for me. My ELT is presently mounted with the aluminum kind. It never occurred to me that that wouldn't be bueno.

I really wish there was a way to consolidate the number of GPS antennae but apparently I'm the only person who thinks so.
I'm sure you've pored over the MX1 manuals at length and I've only given them a cursory browse, so please forgive me if I'm talking garbage, but...

It appears that you only need one antenna for your two screens. The installation manual says the displays can be configured to output NMEA sentences on one of their RS-232 ports, and can also be configured to use an external NMEA source for position. If I'm reading that correctly, it sounds like you could connect an antenna to one of the screens, configure one of its RS-232 ports to output NMEA, then configure the other screen to use the first screen's output for its own position. That NMEA data could also be wired to the ELT's position input. This would reduce your antenna count from four to two.

I also read something about the iBox having its own GPS engine, so if you're using one of those, perhaps it can do the math and output NMEA to other LRUs.

From the MGL iEFIS GPS Manual: "The iEFIS contains multi source GPS functionality with a priority scheme selecting the best possible GPS solution. In addition, it provides two independent GPS data channels, one of which is dedicated to ADSB transmissions as well as transponder mode-S extended squitters."

If that doesn't mean that an MGL source can be used for ADS-B out, then I guess it only reduces your antenna count to three.

airlina

06-04-2022, 03:29 AM

To give an example of why I no longer consider standard adels as bueno for securing critical or heavy items in your plane- search for this old thread where I had a scary experience with my battery tray. The threads title is " SS with Continental engine battery placement" and look for a reply from airlina with some grainy photos of the incident. As an aside can someone explain how to move an old post to a new thread . i have found several times a need to do this and can't figure out a way, thanks Bruce N199CL

n85ae

06-04-2022, 06:41 PM

Hey Bruce - You can find Stainless Adel's at most Marine/Boat shops.

Jeff

alexM

06-04-2022, 08:24 PM

Eric,
I'll have those stainless Adel clamps for you next time I see you. Let me know which fuselage tubes you're attaching to so I can set aside the correct sizes.

You are correct about the MX1 displays, however there is a "yes, but". Up to 8 MX1 displays can be chained together but one has to be declared the master and the others declared 2,3,4, etc. If the master display should fail, the role of master is passed to display 2 (and so forth). If the GPS antenna is only hooked to display 1, and that LRU fails then GPS position data will not be passed to display 2. The same would be true if I only hooked pitot, static and AoA tubing to the master display. The second display would have the EFIS attitude but position, moving map, along with airspeed and altitude tapes would each get a red X across them. No bueno.

Hooking it up the way MGL suggested, the worst thing that would happen to me is that one display would go dark. In normal operation display 2 will ignore the GPS and air data sent to it, and "listen" to the master display for all information. When display 1 dies it switches instantly to its own sources. This also works in reverse. If I enter a radio frequency into display 2, it is wired in parallel to display 1 but does not send the signal to the COM radio to switch frequencies. It sends it to the master display which sends it to the COM radio. But again if the master fails then display 2 steps up to the plate.

The MX1 displays don't use the iBox, they use the EFIS Extender which does not have its own GPS. And it actually might be possible to fake my way through with an NMEA signal from the MX1 but Adam from MGL told me that I would need the SP-12 GPS unit to supply precise GPS location to the transponder (and 406 ELT). I get to skip that with the Echo UAT so again, that's where I'm hoping to pull NMEA from the UAT send it to the ELT.

Eric Page

06-04-2022, 10:11 PM

Let me know which fuselage tubes you're attaching to so I can set aside the correct sizes.
Thanks. It's the tubes on the "floor" of the aft fuselage, on the right side (looking forward), where seven or eight tubes come together. I'm in a hotel room in Orlando at the moment; I'll measure them when I get home.

You are correct about the MX1 displays, however there is a "yes, but".
Well, poop. I had a feeling there'd be a "but" somewhere. Sounds like it would work, but only until it didn't. I guess as the installer you have to decide if losing GPS position is acceptable, and if not, make your antennae redundant.

I was feeling a bit smug about only having to install one ADS-B compliant antenna (actually a complete receiver; it spits out serial data) for all LRUs, but if that antenna dies, I lose everything. Oh well, it is just a VFR airplane, and I do plan to carry an iPad.

Adam from MGL told me that I would need the SP-12 GPS unit to supply precise GPS location to the transponder (and 406 ELT). I get to skip that with the Echo UAT so again, that's where I'm hoping to pull NMEA from the UAT send it to the ELT.
I presume that you're using the μAvionix SkyFYX as a position source for the echoUAT. It looks like the SkyFYX outputs NMEA on its COM1 (pin 3), so it should be able to feed position to your ELT as well. So says the guy who's done exactly zero such installations...

jrevens

06-05-2022, 09:25 AM

Eric,

I have an Echo and SkyFYX, and it feeds the NMEA data to my iFly 740 as well as my ELT. It works fine.

Eric Page

06-06-2022, 10:54 AM

Excellent; thanks, John.

Alex, how about distributing position data like this:

LRU
Primary Source
Secondary Source

MX1 #1
MGL Antenna
skyFYX NMEA

MX1 #2
skyFYX NMEA
MX1 #1 NMEA

echoUAT
skyFYX NMEA
n/a

STX165R
skyFYX NMEA
n/a

ELT
skyFYX NMEA
n/a

- Both MX1s have two independent sources
- Transponder, ADS-B and ELT are fed from an FAA-compliant source
- You only have to install two antennas

Jez

09-05-2022, 05:39 PM

Just a thought here, what if you had put a solid steel tube inside the rudder pedal T bar whilst welding those gussets on? It would have been impossible to bend then.

Jez

09-05-2022, 05:42 PM

I've learned that a feature of this forum is that you can't come back later and edit a post to add pics.
Since all my pics are taken with my phone and typing significant content isn't phone friendly I will post some pics now and then do another post with a real keyboard
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Just a thought here, what if you had put a solid steel tube inside the rudder pedal T bar whilst welding those gussets on? It would have been impossible to bend then. Or used the galvanised bar you had. And then push it out with a hydraulic press if it got a bit stuck.

Jez

09-05-2022, 05:49 PM

alexM

09-05-2022, 06:41 PM

Hi Alex, I am in the process of fitting my rudder pedals in, and have been reading your thread which I think is an absolute life saver for first time builders like myself who has zero experience. I have ordered a piece of steel tubing to put inside my rudder pedal tube to straighten like you did. Is there any chance it could compromise the weld without knowing?

Jez,
I saw your post earlier and was going to comment. In my limited experience, just clamping your rudder torque tubes to be straight isn't going to fix it. 4130 is some pretty amazing material, which is why they make bicycle frames out of it. It's going to need some over-bending to straighten it out. In my case I think what was more effective than anything was to grind ALL of the powder coating out of the inside of those outer torque tubes, and also all of the powder coating on the inner tube - just where the bearings come into contact. Yes, .6mm is .024" but if you think about it, it really doesn't matter what the tube does between the bearings, as long as it allows the bearings align and move freely at each end.

While I was temporarily frustrated at installing/removing/messing with it/re-installing (rinse, repeat) I was imagining a new design with a spherical bearing in one end which would eliminate all the messing around. But if you stick with it you'll get it to move freely at some point and that's just part of being a Kitfox builder.

alexM

09-05-2022, 06:42 PM

Just a thought here, what if you had put a solid steel tube inside the rudder pedal T bar whilst welding those gussets on? It would have been impossible to bend then. Or used the galvanised bar you had. And then push it out with a hydraulic press if it got a bit stuck.

I think the galvanized bar would have been stuck for sure, and would have just caused more grief.

rv9ralph

09-05-2022, 08:35 PM

To clear the inside of the tube (removing powder coat and other material) use a brake cylinder hone. It is the easiest way to do it. If you haven't heard of a brake cylinder hone (those under a certain age haven't rebuild a wheel brake cylinder), search Amazon for it.

alexM

09-10-2022, 09:49 AM

Okay a quick update before I head to the hangar. I'm loving the new job and (almost as importantly) I love the two weeks off every month. So far I have taken the first week back to do absolutely nothing, enjoying the time with my significant other (floating aimlessly on the lake, enjoying the sunshine, teaching her to shoot, etc). Working two weeks straight I lose track of what day it is (because it doesn't matter) and being home it still doesn't matter. I'm okay with that.

I should be at Hood River right now but I didn't have time to do a proper gear swing on the Yak, so rather than hustle I'm just going to work on the Kitfox and worry about Hood River next year. The Yak doesn't have jack points. It just has some red square outlines near the wing roots where you lift straight up with flat pads (read: plywood). Then you restrain the tail because there is considerable inertia/CG change when the gear moves - especially when you blow it down with the backup air system that has no restriction orifices in the lines. Should be a hoot.

I got my interior from Kitfox! Not that I'm ready for it yet but it sure looks great when I throw it in the plane.
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I did not buy the entire set since I'm trying to squeeze every ounce (and dime when possible) out of the plane. Obviously I got the seat cushions. I also got the main carpet pieces, the fuel line covers and the piece for the glare shield. Since I went with the bed liner I'm not putting anything else on the seat pan. I'm also not putting anything on the center console. The carpet is a concession because I needed to do something to protect the floor from where your heels rest and also takes care of the stick boots. The carpet pieces come up to a little less than 3 pounds. I could probably shave some ounces going a different way but they really do look nice.

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Another acquisition was this AC TrackTech electric r/c tug for moving the Yak and its (yet undisclosed) hangar mate. These things allow you to maneuver the plane within inches of hangar walls and each other while allowing you to stand anywhere you need to. No assistant needed. No shouting, arm waving, #$%& tow bars, hopping on and off the tug, crunching sounds or anyone else to blame. I saw them at the aviation trade show a few years back and vowed to have one. A couple of my hangar neighbors have bought them for their C180/C195 and they love them. Downside: They are not cheap. Looking back I realized that I have owned several very cool motorcycles and all but one of them cost less than this thing. But as the owner of the company told me when I talked to him at the trade show said, "It's cheaper than hitting the hangar wall, even once".

Now, off to the hangar. Geek is getting too far ahead of me so it's time to get busy.

Geek

09-10-2022, 01:11 PM

Now, off to the hangar. Geek is getting too far ahead of me so it's time to get busy.

You’re safe Alex. Hanging out with my fellow Naval aviators and my H-60R pilot daughter. No work getting done

Geek

Jez

09-12-2022, 06:57 PM

All the work Eric is doing on his Barn Find are making me feel like I'm not getting anything done. I have blown through my early December goal of having the fuselage ready (enough) to cover so I could start on my wings. Time to get a move on.

Last night I brushed the first coat of epoxy varnish on the vertical fin ribs. I read up very carefully about mixing the resin and catalyst, letting it cook (the EAA article said 45 minutes or even an hour especially if it's humid), filtering, reducing, etc.

Then, like a complete dumb ass I promptly mixed up two parts of reducer and 1 part catalyst. Gotta read those darn labels apparently. Thankfully I read someone else's post here a while back that mentioned it was basically the same as epoxy primer, and I noticed it didn't smell "hot" enough. I figured out the mistake (ie, reading is fundamental) and started over with better organization.

I had read about others finding drips when it was all done. So I started on the top rib and worked my way down, using an old towel draped across the rib under it (and therefore all the other ribs below) I varnished the underside and then the top side, then back under to mitigate pending drips. I caught several drips in the towel that way and only had a few when all was said and done.

Because it was both cold and humid I had let the catalyzed varnish cook for the full hour. I could tell towards the end that it was beginning to thicken, so next time I'll only let it cook for 45 minutes. I did get it all done while it still brushed on thin and flowed well. The EAA article says to wait two days, sand it and make the second coat. Today it was still slightly tacky in places so that's probably great advice. Rushing it would just make a sticky mess and waste sandpaper.

I forgot to mention that I removed the tail surfaces last night. It provided much better access to the rest of the ribs below the horizontal stab, and removing them was on the list anyway. I also needed to complete the body/fender work up top, at the gap between the vertical fin and the rudder.
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Today I took the horizontal stab and elevator out in bright sunlight on my saw horses and sanded the balsa/Superfil to transform from crude to rough shape. It was obvious it would need another layer of Smurf poo so I mixed up a small batch and slathered it on. That has to cure for a day before I can shape it. I expect it to be pretty close but not flawless at that point. The outer layer will be Hysol, and then finish sanded.

It was about that time I realized that I blew the sequence. I had put varnish on the rib which serves as the top of the access panels, but I had not yet bonded/riveted the angle which I had so carefully prepared. Since I have to sand before the next coat of varnish anyway, I'll just sand real well and bond/rivet.

I had fitted the bulkhead piece but had not yet created the angles for the forward edge or the short pieces at the lower rear corner. So today's attention was making those angles and fit/drill/cleco them.
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Anyone who has read the manual knows that access is expected to be difficult at the forward end of the longest rib, and at the top of that bulkhead. I positioned the rivets on the bulkhead angles for best advantage when it comes time to pop those rivets.
I was pleasantly surprised to find that the bulkhead could not only be inserted with angles pre-riveted - it actually slips in place even with Clecos installed!

I realized that drilling those short angles for the aft lower corner would have been smart to do on the bench, like everything else. Well that ship sailed. To drill the holes would require a 90 degree drill, and I didn't own one. So before dinner I ran down and did the Tim Allen Binford 9000 thing and bought a Milwaukee angle drill. I checked before dinner and it will work perfectly for the job.

In the next hour or so I have a batch of aluminum parts prepped for etch and alodine. Tomorrow I should be able to sand the first coat of varnish and get all this installed.
Hi again Jez here, I have just mixed my epoxy varnish 20 g of ev400 to 40 g of ev 410. Let it sit for 45 mins filtered it and mixed in 25% of reducer which was 15 g for the first two coats and then 50% reducer for the last coat. Is this what you done? Also, I got worried when I started to paint it on realised that there is MEK in the reducer that just loves to eat away at paint/powder coat. And as you know it’s pretty hard not to get any on the frame, especially on the horizontal stabiliser. What are your thoughts, am I worrying over nothing? I do appreciate the responses and info I get off you guys.

alexM

09-12-2022, 07:44 PM

Hi again Jez here, I have just mixed my epoxy varnish 20 g of ev400 to 40 g of ev 410. Let it sit for 45 mins filtered it and mixed in 25% of reducer which was 15 g for the first two coats and then 50% reducer for the last coat. Is this what you done? Also, I got worried when I started to paint it on realised that there is MEK in the reducer that just loves to eat away at paint/powder coat. And as you know it’s pretty hard not to get any on the frame, especially on the horizontal stabiliser. What are your thoughts, am I worrying over nothing? I do appreciate the responses and info I get off you guys.

I don't recall it causing any powder coating to bubble up or otherwise be damaged. I tend to keep a rag with denatured alcohol handy and wipe up any drips as I go. I have missed a few and found them too late to do anything about them. It's annoying to make any mistakes but they won't be visible on the finished airplane so I have already gotten over them. If you've got someone who can follow behind you with the rag/alcohol it will turn out better. I have also done some temporary selective masking, peeling the tape off as soon as possible.

Jez

09-13-2022, 03:41 AM

I don't recall it causing any powder coating to bubble up or otherwise be damaged. I tend to keep a rag with denatured alcohol handy and wipe up any drips as I go. I have missed a few and found them too late to do anything about them. It's annoying to make any mistakes but they won't be visible on the finished airplane so I have already gotten over them. If you've got someone who can follow behind you with the rag/alcohol it will turn out better. I have also done some temporary selective masking, peeling the tape off as soon as possible.
Ok thanks, also how long between coats do I have to wait before sanding with 220 grit and applying the other coats? And one last question, you have sold me on those click bond fasteners. I have managed to find a retailer in the UK, but they have asked me which ones I require. Can you tell me which ones you used on what jobs? Much appreciated

alexM

09-13-2022, 10:14 AM

Ok thanks, also how long between coats do I have to wait before sanding with 220 grit and applying the other coats? And one last question, you have sold me on those click bond fasteners. I have managed to find a retailer in the UK, but they have asked me which ones I require. Can you tell me which ones you used on what jobs? Much appreciated
It takes about 48 hours between coats. If you try to sand it too early it makes a gummy mess of the sandpaper.

For the Clickbond nutplanes these are the ones I used under my rudder pedal brackets:
https://www.electricalhub.com/click-bond-cb6014cr31p-cb6014cr3-1p-miniature-fold-over-nutplates

And these are the ones I used on my center console where the side panels attach
https://www.electricalhub.com/click-bond-cn614cr08p-cn614cr08p-adhesive-bonded-nutplates-1

alexM

09-13-2022, 08:11 PM

Well Geek is still kicking my butt and will probably pull away during my next work shift. Haven't heard from Eric in a while so my only hope of saving face is if he's been too busy working to get anything done.

Besides slacking off and spending too much time visiting with airport neighbors, I got to put some time on a Cessna 180. It handles so nicely on the ground an in the air that I see why people pay large sums of money to have one. Very nice aircraft.
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I was finally able to pull the wings off with the help of my son and get them "bunked" up high and out of danger. But before I could strip the fuselage and flip it over I got distracted with a couple of tasks will be much easier to think my way through with no covering in place. One was mounting the ELT and the other was the ELT antenna. Using some of my recently acquired stainless Adel clamps I was able to solidly mount the ELT tray behind the baggage compartment, close to the center line of the fuselage. It won't be too difficult to get to during condition inspections, but if it is harder than I think it will be I know exactly where to put in an access cover. One of the nice things about Oratex is that you can put them in after the plane is covered with no problems.
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The antenna was more difficult. I knew the series 7 has a mount for the antenna welded into the fuselage, but I couldn't remember exactly where. I was going all kinds of crazy directions with a cardboard mock up when airport neighbor and former Kitfox builder Nate stopped by. He showed me where the mount is for the series 7 and it was a real forehead slapper. After he left I used a piece of aluminum angle to fabricate a bracket and install it with two Adel clamps. I like the location a lot but it had two issues. One is that it is only pretty solid with just the two mounting points, and the other is that I had an interference problem with the baggage compartment floor. The mount as I made it would interfere with removal of the baggage compartment floor if I was compelled to remove it for any reason (like condition inspection).
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I'm going to start over with a piece of 1.5" extrusion which will allow a third attachment point, and I'll work out the interference problem with the baggage compartment floor. While I was scratching my head over that I flipped the hardware over as someone on this forum had suggested. This turns the AN526 fasteners into studs which will make removal of the floor even easier. Since this involved an extra washer/nut it raised the floor just a bit, which was in turn going to affect my solution for the antenna.

Bottom line the distraction prevented me from getting the fuselage flipped over today. But I have less than an hour of work to do before it will be ready (assuming no more distractions), so it will be in the correct position prior to me going back to work for two weeks.

Eric Page

09-14-2022, 04:43 PM

Haven't heard from Eric in a while so my only hope of saving face is if he's been too busy working to get anything done.
Way to shame a brother! You've got nothing to fear from the south. Apart from several more electronic modules (I can't help myself!), I've barely touched the plane in nearly a year. It seems like my work schedule is beginning to calm down, so hopefully this winter I'll start making progress again.

The antenna was more difficult...
I don't know if it will be of any help, but here's what I did with mine:

https://teamkitfox.com/Forums/threads/10868-The-Barn-Find-Build?p=99558&viewfull=1#post99558

It doesn't interfere with the baggage floor at all.

alexM

09-14-2022, 07:28 PM

All in jest brother Page! It is certainly true that time and motivation don't always line up. That antenna mount does look simple. I'll have to revisit what I've done and compare your version to mine. Also, from your picture I see that Nate was correct, in that the antenna mount has to have a ground path.

Edit: I've looked again, and while I'm likely to leave my ELT where it is, I like your solution for the antenna a lot more than mine. By the way, I count nine tubes coming together there.

alexM

09-14-2022, 08:50 PM

Well I guess we set goals so we can fall short and try again, right? I had hopes of getting the bottom of the fuselage covered but in the past couple of days I decided that if I could at least get the fuselage stripped and flipped over, I would call it a success.

I fly out for my next work shift at 6am, but when I come back on October 1 I'll be installing my (already prepped) center stringer on the lower fuselage and getting busy with a piece of Oratex. So fair warning Geek, I'm coming for you (and Hell's coming with me, or something like that).
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Geek

09-15-2022, 06:01 AM

So fair warning Geek, I'm coming for you (and Hell's coming with me, or something like that).

Great!! I need the encouragement!! To quote you, "It is certainly true that time and motivation don't always line up" just seems to be the way it is some days.

Fly safe up there in the North mate.

Geek

Jez

09-20-2022, 06:27 PM

Thanks John. It does appear suspiciously like the cans are the same size and have equal amounts of goo inside. I've been eye balling two part adhesives since I was a kid flying model airplanes. For stuff like gap filling I imagine Hysol is tolerant but to be thorough and safe I'd like to get an electronic scale. I also want one to weigh every component that goes on the plane (the old saying, "sweat the ounces and the pounds take care of themselves" applies), but it will obviously be a different scale.

The paint was fully cured last night so I went through the whole clean, test fit, lubricate, assemble, cleco, rivet process. When it came time to fit the rudder pedals back on I got to learn where the thin washers that fell out when I disassembled everything came from. My calipers came in handy for sure.

I do not understand why the manual says to torque the pedal pivot bolts to 20-25 inch pounds, because they bind up tight when you do that. This isn't like the ball joints or purposely designed bushings that pivot, it is straight up clamping force. I got my 1-3 threads through the self locking nut with free pivoting action and called it good.

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I'm starting a new tail wheel student in my Citabria tonight so I'm planning on heading over a bit early and seeing how the rudder pedals into the fuselage.
Hi Alex, I am very tempted to cut a piece out of my floorboard, the exact same size as the aluminium block the rudder tubing goes into, and hysoling if that’s a word 😆 to the fuselage. Then you can torque it as much as you like once it has set. What are your thoughts ? I was also thinking to take away the front floorboard all together, because if you were to hysol the aluminium blocks to the fusalage first, then they are solid and yes you can torque to your hearts content. And obviously have some washers as shims to help with setting them up before the hysol goes in.

Jez

09-20-2022, 08:40 PM

I forgot to mention, all this is because I cannot get those clickbond fasteners that you recommended in the UK.

Eric Page

09-20-2022, 11:22 PM

I used standard floating nut plates (https://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/hapages/anchornuts4.php?clickkey=4796) installed with flush rivets; it worked fine as well. If you go this route, remember to drill the bolt holes in the frame slightly oversize so the floating part of the nut plates can still move around. Due to clearance issues from the forward frame tube, the forward nut plate under each bracket will need to be the type with both rivet holes on one end.

alexM

09-20-2022, 11:57 PM

Jez,
As Eric suggests, if you can't obtain the Clickbond just do the normal type of nutplates with rivets. Having just removed my rudder pedals to start covering the bottom of the fuselage I was careful to watch that none of my Clickbond nutplates came loose (none did). Since they don't need to be beautiful this is a good place to learn squeezed rivets.

I wouldn't say that just because you Hysoled (and yes, I consider it a word) that you could torque all you want. I understand what it is you're trying to do but just stick pretty close to the build manual and you'll appreciate the final product. Did I just say that? Huh.

As for Eric's other comment about the hole size to use with a floating nutplate, I specified literally thousands of those in my last job. I have the exact specs at home (about 1400 miles from me right now) so I can come up with the drill size to use in 11 more days, but if you make a hole exactly 0.030" larger than the screw size if will ensure that the screw hits the edge of your drilled hole before the nutplate runs out of 'float' (which would be bad). You want your metal structure to take any side load. The nutplate is only there to squeeze the pieces together.

Those nutplates he refers to are called "single lug". You could use them everywhere if you want. They're not weaker than the "normal" kind.

Instead of working on my Kitfox, I'm having to endure this kind of stuff:
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I can't believe I get paid for this.

Eric Page

09-21-2022, 09:02 AM

Since they don't need to be beautiful this is a good place to learn squeezed rivets.
It would be pretty rough to get a rivet squeezer in there. I used stainless flush head Cherry blind rivets (https://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/hapages/cherrynrivet.php?clickkey=10568).

Beautiful picture, Alex!

alexM

10-08-2022, 08:44 PM

While I'm busying myself on a list of "oh yeah, I should do that too" before covering the bottom of my fuselage I've been working with my engine importer on the motor mount for my Verner radial. Starting with my Solidworks model, a lot of communication, some supply chain issues and some iterative design work the mount is now reality. There was one last fixture he had to make to support it for finish welding (reaching the spots you can't reach during the main part of the fabrication).

He's going to do a static test and also apply a hefty torque load to it to make sure it doesn't need gussets or flex too much, and then call it good. My FEA showed it good to 10.5G so I'm not super concerned it will be flimsy. Hopefully it will all be in my hands before I go to work on the 15th. I'm not holding my breath but at the very least it will be here when I get back on Nov 1.

The Airflow Performance fuel injection (not shown here) is now also ready to go, and my oil tank has been modified (more on that some other day). Still a million miles to go but I'm pumped to see this milestone.
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Geek

10-09-2022, 05:05 AM

Alex your plane is going to be awesome!! That mount is a work of art and I expect to be invited to the initial start up of the recip!!

Gary

Kitfox Pilot

10-09-2022, 10:35 AM

I will say Alex, that mount looks stout!

alexM

10-30-2022, 07:05 PM

Only one more day of work and I'm headed home to get covering on that fuselage.

It has been a pretty amazing two weeks
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Left base 04 Pilot Station (on the Yukon)
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Inbound for Hooper Bay, just under the shadow of that dark stuff
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Goodnews Bay. I was looking for (and found) a missing boat.

alexM

11-06-2022, 07:13 PM

My engine was delivered Saturday morning. I got to spend the day with Brett, one of the importers of the Verner engines and Robin - fellow Kitfox builder/Verner customer who drove down from Canada to meet us both.
Robin is building a series IV and putting it on amphib floats. He brought a board he had transfer punched and drilled the hole pattern from his fuselage to compare with my engine mount. We had both been under the impression that the hole patterns were almost the same except for the two outer holes moving inboard 1". When we set my mount on his board (which pins easily to his fuselage) it was clear there were more differences than we thought. My heart sank as I realized I could have made an error measuring for my own fuselage, so we pulled the engine crate out of the way and test fit the mount to my fuselage.
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Shown upside down because my fuselage is upside down, but it fits great. Huge relief.

Robin's installation will be different because he's rightfully concerned about CG with his series IV. Because the IV has a flat firewall (no footwell) and he's using the stock SS carb he can have the engine pulled in much closer to the firewall. But the ring and supports going to the back of the engine will be the same as mine.

Before packing up the engine to drive it to Tacoma from Las Cruces, NM Brett put my engine mount on a test fixture and performed a thrust test (750 lbs x 1.3), torque test (288 ft lbs x 1.3) and +5/-2 G, also x 1.3. That test is what would be performed to certify to FAR part 23. The mount easily passed the test.
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Today I went back to my hangar to get stuff done. I was torn between getting the engine out of the crate and onto the engine stand, or covering the bottom of the fuselage. I kept going back and forth but I was getting dirty hands so I had to pick one project and stick with it. I made a trip to Harbor Freight and bought an engine stand. My hangar neighbor had an engine hoist which he was about to dispose of so now it's on semi-permanent loan to me. I made a trip to the hardware store to get hardware to adapt the engine stand to the back of the engine and that same hangar neighbor helped me lift the engine upright.
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I had to rotate the stand 90 degrees because the starter solenoid would ride hard against the upright of the engine stand. The blue hose you see to the left of the image is the crankcase drain which should point straight down. Get a load of that easy to reach oil filter!
On the engine stand I won't be able to fit the induction system, engine mount or exhaust so this is just a place to park it and admire it until I can hoist it onto the front of the upright fuselage.
I have to switch gears and get back to covering so I can do that. Hoping for a test fit when I'm on break from work the first two weeks of January. Lot of things to still engineer. I'll go over the induction system and the choices I still have to make in the next video I put out (probably tomorrow).

jrevens

11-06-2022, 09:40 PM

Beautiful, Alex!

Geek

11-07-2022, 06:45 AM

Glad it all fit as you expected Alex!! Good that you're starting the covering of the fuselage with the bottom so that when you look over at that engine and drool, the spots will all be on the bottom of the plane!! I would name your ship the "Iconic Fox" with that engine.

Gary

Jez

11-07-2022, 11:50 AM

Very nice, glad those measurements were ok for you after. Did you get to check the vertical stabiliser rib after? The one that has potential to catch on the elevators push pull tube. I enlarged mine just in case

alexM

11-07-2022, 02:08 PM

Okay here's the video tour of my Verner Scarlett 7U

https://youtu.be/Fhpf-BoMfIY

Jez,
I'm going to add some clearance to be sure but my elevator push-pull does not contact that piece of wood. Thanks for pointing it out. Sure is easier to take care of it before covering.

alexM

11-09-2022, 10:02 PM

I'd almost forgotten what hot Oratex smells like. In spite of outside air temps starting at 29F this morning it crept up to 42F by mid day. I had been running my turbo heater in my hangar and it brought it up to 52F so I got to work while I could. Of course once I put the first brush full of adhesive on I was committed to keep it up until every bit of it was heat activated and fully bonded.

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It was a long day. I left a few tails of fabric that need to be trimmed and of course I only shrunk it enough to get the wrinkles out but not tighten the fabric much. It's all uphill from here.

Geek

11-10-2022, 07:19 AM

.........It's all uphill from here.

Looks good Alex. The view when you get to the top of the hill is great!!

G

alexM

11-14-2022, 05:23 PM

Thanks Gary.

I cleaned up the mess I made in the hangar with the scraps of fabric, etc. I took my landing gear and engine mount to the powder coater late last week, and those will be ready on Dec 1 when I get back.
I'm packed and ready to go to work in the morning. Weather in Bethel this morning was severe clear and -15C. Density altitude was -3500 MSL, so at least the beginning of my shift will be some great flying.

alexM

12-01-2022, 07:50 PM

Got home from work at 7am. Slept until noon and then went to get my engine mount and landing gear from the powder coater. They came out exactly as I had asked them to do everything (lots of masking). They did a media blast, baked epoxy primer and then top coat. The red landing gear is a great match for my fuselage and I went with a satin white on the engine mount, which I understand is traditional so it shows cracks easier.
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I'll drag this stuff to the hangar tomorrow and see if I can warm it up enough to get some more covering done.

bbs428

12-02-2022, 10:24 AM

What's that white stuff under your landing gear, lol.
The cold sure makes it challenging to get things done!

Powder coat is looking good!

alexM

01-03-2023, 08:09 PM

Well I didn't get much done in December because of the (incomplete) Kitfox ferry flight. I had to do some work related computer tasks today but did manage to get a little time in on my plane. It's too cold to cover for at least another few days so I turned my attention to my engine. During my time away from home my SAE1 prop hub showed up from Ukraine. I had to see what the prop looked like on the engine:
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And today I took advantage of some free help and took the engine off the stand and put it face down in the crate again so I could install the engine mount, exhaust and fuel injection system. This is all just mocked up (nothing fully torqued or cotter pinned). I just wanted to make sure everything fit together and to make sure I understood the process. it all went more smoothly than I expected. My modeling in Solidworks paid off because the throttle body clears the motor mount by just enough to allow me to use it sticking out the right side. An air filter will be cake now.
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jrevens

01-04-2023, 12:16 AM

Beautiful!! It looks very good Alex!

Geek

01-04-2023, 06:30 AM

That just looks wickedly good Alex. Nice job!!

Gary

alexM

01-11-2023, 09:35 PM

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Well my hangar is a mess (technically it was a disaster scene when I started) but I got the right side of the fuselage covered yesterday and the left (aka "other right side") covered today.

Challenging to do when the temps are low because once you make the first brush stroke on the structure with the Oratex adhesive you can't stop until every inch of (completely dried) adhesive has been activated with the iron and/or heat gun.

I've still got some trimming to do and of course the edge tapes to get done before I can get too excited but it is starting to look suspiciously like a Kitfox.

Geek

01-12-2023, 06:12 AM

It's coming along Alex and looks good. Pretty soon you are going to have to start practicing your 'I Am Done With Covering Happy Dance'!!

Gary

bbs428

01-12-2023, 10:42 AM

Building during the winter comes with its fair share of challenges. I now get x-mas cards from my propane provider... :rolleyes:

Looking more and more like a Kitfox Alex!

Kitfox Pilot

01-16-2023, 04:58 PM

Looking good Alex! Have you covered before or first timer? Just looking for someone that has used both for a comparison on which is easier to apply.

alexM

01-17-2023, 09:47 PM

First time I've covered a full size airplane. I have built a lot of models over the years from freeflight rubber powered covered with Esaki tissue paper to r/c planes covered with monokote, etc. I should make it clear that the main reason I'm covering with Oratex is because it came with my project. If it had not I would be using Polyfiber.

But I love the (preaching to the choir here) lack of toxic chemicals, sanding, spraying, fixing flaws from spraying, and all that. Plus, bottom line: lightest possible covering. Lightens the wallet too, so win/win.

alexM

03-21-2023, 07:44 PM

Okay, I'm hoping to reach a big milestone soon. I worked a month straight and now I have a month off. It's a long story. I'm going to spend a week in Cabo San Lucas with my favorite (only) woman but I don't have any ferry flights or other commitments to keep me from getting some solid work done.

Prior to heading to work I had the bottom and both sides of my fuselage covered with Oratex. I did a bunch of finish tapes where the many pieces of fuselage tubing came into contact with the fabric (not required as it turns out, but good practice). I also did edge tapes, which are the same tape but applied to cover where the bottom and side pieces overlap. Starting at the tail I made it to the lift strut attach fittings and then tried to do the pieces from the firewall to the lift strut attach point.

It came out okay except that the tapes stretch as you get them to lay flat, and the edge everyone would see (just below the doors) wasn't what I hoped for. I stopped after doing one side, put away my tools and decided to look at it again when I got home. Well, I got back and took a look. Short version: Oh hell no. I used the heat gun to remove the ugly piece and spent yesterday and part of my morning today getting it all to look the way it should.

With those tapes in place I can now reinstall my landing gear and flip the plane upright. Before I do boring stuff like run wires to the stab trim actuator and indicator and cover the tail/aft fuselage I've got a goal: I'm going to hang the engine for the first time.

That's right, it's finally time.
I could tell you that I'm doing it so I can plan out where my ignition coils and fuel pumps are going, or that I need to plan out the path of my throttle and mixture cables. But none of you are buying that. It's so I can sit in the plane and make noises.

I will put the wings on, which will allow me to complete the install of the butt ribs (precursor to doors and windshield/skylight), and I'm going to toss every part I own into the plane and weigh it (again). With the engine on I can try out both props and get an idea of my CG too.

Seeing it look like an actual airplane with a spinny thing on the front should provide the motivation I need to get the build done.

Did I say both props?
I did. While I was away at work I got two Kitfox related packages. One was an AWB T3 tail wheel strut, and the other was a Sensenich two blade carbon prop. This is the one where you set pitch using some provided pins. I will test out my current 2000mm Meglin 3 blade carbon prop and the 78" 2 blade Sensenich carbon prop and see which one I like best. My engine importer Brett Hahn worked with the Sensenich engineers who selected the design based on engine parameters and expected performance.

The blades of the Sensenich are heavier but there are only two of them. The overall weight of the prop is slightly higher but nowhere near as much as I was expecting.

I have installed the T3 tail wheel. I already owned the AWB (formerly Scott) 3200. I'm just replacing the single aluminum leaf with the T3. For those of you who have installed a T3 I've got a question. It came with the thin aluminum shim looking thing shown below.
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It didn't exactly nest between the T3 strut and the 3200 so I left it out. What little (very little) slop there was went away when I torqued the fasteners. Does anyone know the proper application of this shim/spacer? Should I have crushed that thing in there to prevent a shimmy issue later? The T3 didn't come with any instructions and the PDF I found online doesn't mention it.

Here's a shot of the T3. I didn't take one of the Sensenich prop yet but it's coming
31982

With my edge tapes successfully in place I started to put my main gear back on. I had mocked it up before but this time I'm getting super careful about bolt lengths, washers etc. Some of the hardware seemed like it could benefit from slightly different length choices so the cotter pins will be in the right spot. I just dropped a will-call order on Spencer Aircraft. I hope they will have that ready tomorrow, but my experience says their inventory control is lacking. They may not have some of the things they say they do, but I hope so.

Shown below is the main gear part way back on.
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Once the wheels are back on I'll engage some thirsty beer drinking airport neighbors to help me get it back upright. More to follow soon.

MikeFairbanks

03-22-2023, 12:28 PM

I had this same question about the shim that came with the T3 tail spring, and just got this response to that question from Airframes Alaska today.

The shim is only there for tailwheels with loose fitment to the T3. If you have a new ABI-3200B then it is unlikely that the fit is loose so I would recommend removing the shim. Forcing the shim into place can cause stress on the sides of the tailwheel head and potentially cause cracking. Your torque spec is fine, do not exceed it to try and force the shim into place.

I should mention that the torque spec he mentions is just standard for the bolt size. I torqued mine to 38 ft lbs.

alexM

03-22-2023, 06:22 PM

Perfect timing then. Thank you for the reply!

I picked up my will-call order today and they had everything (!). Had lunch with my oldest brother and made my way to the hangar. I took my time setting up all the landing gear hardware, changing length by one size where needed, using L washers etc to get the cotter key location just right. For the non moving fasteners I made sure I had 2-3 threads protruding when torqued properly. Slapped the main wheels on (not the last time for that job) and hunted down some hangar neighbors to help me flip it over.
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Part of my hardware order was what I hope is the correct length AN4 bolts, and an assortment of washers and nuts so I could hang the engine. Let's see, I just have to figure out where to mount the radiator. Oh wait that's right - I don't have one.

I'm hoping tomorrow is as good as today was.

Question for the gallery: Why do they call them L (for light) washers, when we pick them because they're thin. Shouldn't they be T washers? Have you ever heard of someone saying they saved 2 ounces by replacing all their AN960 washers with the L version?

bbs428

03-23-2023, 08:57 PM

Your tires make your plane look skinny! lol

Nice work!

alexM

03-23-2023, 09:51 PM

There had to be some distortion in that picture that made the tires look huge. They're only 26".

I successfully hung my engine today. It was raining pretty heavily so I didn't roll the plane outside. Still have to install the wings etc but I'm going to make up my whiteboard list before I get too crazy.
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I even got a head start on locating coil packs and my throttle linkage. I did a mock up installation of the Sensenich 2 blade prop. My Ukrainian (Meglin) prop will have to wait for another day.

airlina

03-24-2023, 02:56 AM

That already looks really cool , Alex , you are gonna have a real unique Kitfox. I'll bet you stood back a half dozen times to admire the engine on the mount. Can't wait to hear your first test fire up of that engine. Bruce N199CL

bbs428

03-24-2023, 03:56 AM

Thats one big, beautiful chunk of hardware Alex. NOTHING sounds as sweet as a radial!

Geek

03-24-2023, 06:41 AM

Yeah I am going to pile onto this one!! That is one beautiful piece of kit. You've been teasing us with it over the last few months but seeing it all mounted up is sweet. Nice work Alex.

Gary

alexM

03-24-2023, 10:42 AM

My latest low budget video (rambling thoughts of a madman):

https://youtu.be/omkXLvgEu6E

alexM

03-27-2023, 07:14 PM

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Got some hangar neighbors to help me get the wings back on today. I'm getting my butt ribs ready to install and of course I'll mock up all the parts i have on hand so I can do an accurate weight assessment and preliminary W&B before I continue to cover the tail.

I placed a few orders for aircraft wire and tools so I can get through that task. Eric Page's thread on the subject has been indispensable.

Eric Page

03-28-2023, 10:43 AM

Thanks for the kind words, Alex. Your plane looks fantastic!

kblack

04-01-2023, 01:01 PM

I've spent the morning reading this entire thread and watching several of the videos. Great work! Thanks for sharing your experience. I've been contemplating a Kitfox build for quite some time, and you have motivated me to stop pondering and start doing.

Kitfox Pilot

04-01-2023, 03:37 PM

Welcome to the forum Kliff. This is the best place to be if you want to build a Kitfox. I look forward to your build! Harlan

alexM

04-02-2023, 12:00 PM

I've spent the morning reading this entire thread and watching several of the videos. Great work!...

Thanks for the kind words Kliff. Other than my choice of engines my plane is pretty average compared with some of the really nice builds on this forum. I agree with Harlan, this is a great place to get inspiration and to answer the many questions you'll have along the way.

Enjoy your build!

alexM

04-02-2023, 12:23 PM

A sneak peek at the pile of stuff between the firewall and the back of the engine:
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View from the left side. That is one of the coil packs near the firewall, and you can see the location of my dual fuel pumps assembly, on top of the footwell portion of the firewall.
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Close up of the fuel pump assembly. Only two of the Adel clamp locations have been drilled. Also visible, the black 90 degree 6AN bulkhead fitting going through the existing hole on the firewall. The fuel will go from there to the capped fitting on the fuel pump inlet. It would be a simple U shape 6AN hose except for...
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...the required fuel filter. This shows the theoretical location of the main fuel filter supplied by Airflow Performance. Exact location not yet cast in stone, but definitely somewhere near this location. I want to make sure I can reach it during condition inspections.
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Still spit balling these locations. Shown here are my battery contactor and starter contactor up high on the firewall. They are being held in place by magnets on the back side of the firewall. The rectifier/voltage regulator from the motorcycle type alternator is visible up on top of the engine mount. It is temporarily located with two Adel clamps. I thought it would be too wobbly and that I would need to fabricate a small aluminum plate for more anchor points but it may be just fine like it is.
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Over on the right side of the plane you can see my two fingers pointing to where fuel comes from the fuel pump assembly and into the throttle servo. This would be another short U shape hose except that the Airflow Performance manual says that you need a 25 micron filter on this piece if you have composite fuel tanks (which of course, we do).

Throttle linkage looks easy. The mixture operates backwards from how I would like it to, but not impossible to deal with. However, reading the Airflow Performance manual I found that they offer the mixture assembly in reversed format. I'll be inquiring with them about that and taking them up on their offer for design assistance on proper air flow into the throttle servo.

Not shown here:
MGL RDAC unit for engine monitoring
"Forest of tabs" electrical ground
Oil tank (working on the mounting design now)
Oil cooler (may/may not need one)

Not in the picture (because they don't exist):
Any form of ECU
Magnetos or distributor
Radiator, coolant hoses, water pump

alexM

06-08-2023, 08:57 PM

I've had four days at my hangar which translates to about three good days of work on the plane.

I'm being bit by what my former employer called "integration". You can't just install the fuel system and then move on to electrical. There just isn't room to just slap things on in a way which is optimum for each system without making something else impossible to work on.

My pitot and AoA tubing had been coiled up inside my left wingtip, so I fed them through the rear spar and also a chunk of wire which I'll use to pull the actual shielded wires through very soon (more later).

I'm on revision B of the conduit to the tail of the plane, and I pulled the appropriate shielded wires for both my stab trim motor and my stab trim indicator. Today I actually hooked those wires up. I did not mount the stab trim sensor because I need to power up the jack screw to make sure it's in the right position before I permanently mount the sensor.

I've gone random directions to check things off my list. A few of those have been to complete the install of the header tank. I had to mount the flange thingy to the fabric and insert the rubber hose. After the adhesive was dry I cut the hole in the belly fabric. I had lost my fuel sealant so I had to expedite another tube of that stuff so I could install the sump drain. When I had the header tank out I realized that I never installed the fat cotter pins which keep the rudder cables from jumping out of the pulleys, so I got that done.

I drilled up the COM antenna plate and riveted those pieces in place (a series 5 thing, not done on the series 7).

Back to the firewall, because I'm trying (not doing a good job) to focus on the FWF. I drilled the hole for the 3rd fuel pump clamp. I had some theoretical locations for my battery contactor, starter contactor, engine management device, fuel filter, etc. But when it came time to actually pick up the drill I got really cautious.

I decided I should locate them accurately and then re-install my engine for about 10 minutes just to make sure I hadn't created myself an interference condition that needed fixing. While waiting for help to arrive I realized I didn't need to re-install the engine. All I had to do was pull the firewall off the plane and pin it to the motor mount which was super easy.

In the end a few things did move around a bit and I was much happier with the locations. I drilled and installed my battery contactor. When I did my starter contactor I thought I would do something efficient and rotate it 90 degrees to make the cable path better, which it definitely would have - if I didn't promptly rotate it 90 degrees the wrong way and drill the holes. That was towards the end of the second day and my cue to put my tools away and go home. It's not even a real setback. It will cost me about 1" of cable.

I drilled the firewall and mounted my MGL RDAC engine monitoring LRU. I drilled and installed a B&C "Forest of Tabs" on the engine side. I'll install another one on the exact opposite aft side of the firewall. I then celebrated by attaching the connectors on the ground wires for the fuel pumps and connecting them to the Forest of Tabs.
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And after considerable struggling with the fuel filter location I finally drilled up the location for those clamps. I have some fuel fittings and supplies on the way which will allow me to build up the various lines ahead of the firewall.

My "fuel servo" (aka throttle body) came back from Airflow Performance with the mixture direction reversed. I completed the installation of the adapter/injector housing, the 90 degree elbow and the servo. Everything is now torqued and/or cotter pinned in place. I adjusted the lever arms on the mixture and throttle to give near optimum throws for the push/pull cables.
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(Yes, I cleaned that flange surface thoroughly before installing the gasket.)

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I finished the day by making the wiring connections for my ELT switch.
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New skill and very slow going at this point. The wires are coiled up waiting to be routed to the rear of the plane. To wire up the ELT I need the two wires off the switch and a wire from my SkyFX GPS before I make up the 15 pin RS232 connector which goes to the ELT.

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Today, besides the previously mentioned wiring connections for the stab trim motor and position sensor, I designed, fabricated and installed a mounting plate for my Safety Trim device.
In the way-back machine I created a cardboard mockup to mount my headless COM, headless TXP and my Echo UAT behind the left seat. Since I was in metal fabrication mode I made up the aluminum plate to replace the cardboard. And just because the contraption I was using had a crude form of press brake, I bent a pair of return flanges to stiffen the thing up. I haven't even deburred it yet, let alone drill any holes or test fit anything. That will be tomorrow.

Freedom2

06-08-2023, 10:49 PM

Great work Alex!!! You sure are getting me pumped for my install. I'm assuming you plan to try first without an oil cooler and see where your oil temp is?? I haven't discussed that with Brett yet.

alexM

06-09-2023, 07:57 AM

Thanks Robin. I've got a spot carved out for a cooler but I would love to not have one.

The ones I've seen installed are very small.

bbs428

06-15-2023, 05:24 AM

A lot of stuff happening on your firewall forward. Fun, fun, fun! Very interesting build!

Totally understand the need for revision Bravo, Charlie and Delta. Lol.

alexM

07-28-2023, 08:20 AM

A quick update while I'm still up in Alaska. For those who saw my most recent video you may recall the bracket I mocked up out of 0.016" sheet aluminum, purpose of which is to hold my throttle and mixture cable housings near the fuel injection servo. I sent that CAD model off to SendCutSend, the same place I had make my instrument panel(s). I knew from the tracking number that it had arrived home so I had Carrie open up the package and send me some pictures.
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I was able to order my throttle and mixture cables through McFarland. For my throttle cable I'm getting one of their combination push-pull/Vernier units. No plunger knob. You can push-pull for large motions and twist it to fine tune everything. Pretty cool design. I elected to choose an off the shelf length (about half the price of custom and no wait time), which is about 7" longer than what I worked out, so I have to lose 7" in my actual routing.
I had hoped to get the exact same kind of cable for my mixture but the very nice lady from McFarland sold me a normal Vernier type (mit plunger, ja?), which is a cut to length unit. Both of those have shipped, along with several expected hardware pieces.

And while the lower 48 is suffering a heat wave, up here we're having the coldest summer anyone can recall for quite some time. It's not only colder than normal, we've had several days of low ceilings. That means I have had time to fine tune my Solidworks model of my oil tank mounting solution. I have ordered all the internally threaded rods, turn buckles, nylon bar stock and rubber sheet in various types, thicknesses and durometer. I will use the rubber to pad the motor mount and the oil tank from each other.

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Oil lines and clamps should be at my house already along with rev D of the cable from my battery contactor to my starter. August is going to be a good month.

Eric Page

07-28-2023, 06:28 PM

Beautiful stuff, Alex. I wish I had half of your engineering and CAD skills.

I know, I know, "Eric, you're the one who went to a liberal arts college instead of engineering school!"

alexM

07-30-2023, 09:33 AM

Beautiful stuff, Alex. I wish I had half of your engineering and CAD skills.

I know, I know, "Eric, you're the one who went to a liberal arts college instead of engineering school!"
Thanks Eric. There are many places I struggle and fumble around. Running an etch-a-sketch isn't one of them.

Eric Page

07-30-2023, 05:20 PM

If I still had an early-90s DOS machine running CADKey 6 -- and the laminated keyboard overlay -- I could probably do it, but these new-tech etch-a-sketches a real head-scratcher.

Draw... A Line... Parallel... To A Line... At A Distance...

Geek

07-30-2023, 07:35 PM

.......Draw... A Line... Parallel... To A Line... At A Distance...

This cracked me up Eric. Long time since I have seen those. But you're aging yourself!!!

Gary

alexM

07-30-2023, 07:59 PM

Dood, I made a good living as a CADkey jockey for several years. Often it was because I was the only power user in town, but occasionally because I knew it better than any of my competition. When I moved into CNC programming I learned several other CAD languages but always had a cracked version of CADkey at home.
One of the places I worked bought Surfcam which had a nearly identical interface (Create, Line, Parallel, ThruPt) etc. It was like putting on my favorite jeans.

I don't know if you know the story of what happened to CADkey, which was always superior to AutoCAD. I forget the name of the guy they hired from AutoDesk to run CADkey but he absconded with company funds and left it for dead. At one point I saw the rights of the CADkey software for sale for less than the price of a used car.

Eric Page

07-30-2023, 10:47 PM

No, I never used or heard anything about CADKey after late 1994. I used it when I worked at a small prototyping and tooling shop up in Mountlake Terrace (one of the things made there were replacement rivet-setting dies for the Gemcor machines on the wing production line in Everett).

I was hired to be sort of a girl Friday (billing, payroll, etc.), but ended up dimensioning customer drawings, converting customers' napkin sketches into CAD, running manual machines on repetitive tasks, and eventually being the only guy in the shop who understood their fancy new Hurco CNC mill. That Hurco mill was remarkable for the day; it had a control panel that allowed you to draw a part directly in the machine, then define a tool path. As long as you knew enough about feeds-and-speeds not to break endmills it could turn any liberal arts graduate into a precision machinist, and for a time, it did.

Anyway, it's sad that CADKey is no more. It looks like the name belongs to a Japanese company now, but they only use it to drive business to their own platform: "Do you have CADKey .prt files? Only Kubotek KeyCreator can read them!"

I still have a copy of CADKey 6 on 3-1/2" floppies around here somewhere. I wasted half a day trying to get it running on a DOS emulator a few years ago without success.

alexM

08-16-2023, 08:02 AM

A couple of quick pics before I head to the hangar for the day. Getting my oil hoses routed is a game of 1/8ths of an inch here and there (which is why I haven't drilled the firewall yet). I think down the road I'll end up with a slightly different oil tank but this will work for now.
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Jez

08-19-2023, 02:33 PM

Hi Alex, could you provide me with the website where you got the dimensions for the horses you made for the wing build please? Jez

alexM

08-19-2023, 03:18 PM

Jez,
The required dimensions are in the builder's manual. Take those dimensions and combine them with a Google search for:
DIY I-beam sawhorses.
Then follow the manual for how to rig them and glue them to your shop floor.

Jez

08-19-2023, 08:47 PM

Got it, thanks Alex

Jez

09-13-2023, 10:32 AM

A brief update.

A few days ago I completed drilling and riveting of all four spars. No foul language and no extra holes. I didn't make an exact count but it's very close to 200 rivets by the time you complete top and bottom of all four spars. My Milwaukee 12V rivet gun has worked flawlessly, so I have no wrist cramps to complain about. I didn't even need to swap batteries on the rivet gun.

I immediately began setting up my sawhorse wing fixture and incorporating both 1/2" spacers, then got out my ribs.

I still haven't sloshed the spars to get out the chips or the lube used to get the inserts in place but that didn't stop me from sliding a few ribs into place so I could see how they fit. Right away I learned the rivets in the rear spar won't slide over all those rivets. I will need to file two small notches inside the hole in the rib where the rear spars go, so they can slide into place in over the riveted sections.

I've done some internet searching and found some smooth rubber balls which should have much better gap sealing properties than the tennis balls I used when I cleaned/etched/Alodined all the pieces recently. Once those arrive I'll get the spars cleaned out and make up my mind about sloshed with epoxy.

In the meantime I've got a bunch of ribs that need inspecting and sanding.

Alex, you said you should have seen it coming a mile away. What could you have done to prevent using them motorbike cnc block windshield spacers. Increased the length of the saw horses? Also, do you think it's necessary to notch out the ribs for the rivets being in the way? they would have only been a mill or 2 out on either end. I am just starting to build my horses now, and I will put some pics up on team kitfox. Your channel and forum is a great help thanks.

Jez

09-13-2023, 10:38 AM

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I cleaned up the shop (mostly) and set out my sawhorses two days ago. My digital tape measure and digital level came in handy for setting up the wing fixture. I fixed one to the garage floor with Bondo and once it kicked off I got the second one leveled, oriented by the book and also fixed to the floor with Bondo. Yesterday morning I checked all the measurements again and they were spot on. Both sawhorses were level, my 156" dimension was not even out 1/32" and the diagonal was within 1/32" out. For some repurposed studs I'm pretty happy with it.
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With that all checked I cut some lumber for the index blocks which attach to the saw horses and the 1/2" pieces which serve to stagger the spars at the inboard rear end and to set the washout. By afternoon I was removing screws from the spar crate. I tested out my fixture and then got busy with a scotchbrite pad cleaning up the outside of the tubes. It was one of those nights where you are about ready to shut off the lights and decide to see what kind of effort it will take to prep the spar inserts, and next thing you know it's 1am and they're done.
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During an afternoon break I went to the local building supply place and bought 14' of 3" PVC pipe (had to buy a 10' and 4' piece), a coupler and two end caps. Armed with knowledge of the "tennis ball trick" I included a big pet store in my errands. I thought it would be great to find some smooth rubber balls instead of tennis balls, and fully expected to strike the mother load. I was to be disappointed however, and the best I could do was some overpriced tennis balls.

Around dinner time I slapped more Bondo on the feet of both sawhorses and used some PVC pipe adhesive to bond the coupler and one end cap in place. Then I vacated the shop while all the fumes cleared out.

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Today I explored the tennis ball thing. I wanted to slosh the inside of the tubes with acetone. The balls leaked pretty badly and acetone will just laugh at any attempts to tape it. I just lived with the leaks and had a big tub at each end to catch the leaking acetone, which I filtered and used for the initial sluice of the next tube and fresh acetone for the second. I retrospect I should have started by cleaning up the insides of the tubes because I had cleaned them externally to a beautiful uniform appearance.

Once all four spars were cleaned inside I mixed up a big batch of my Henkel Bonderite etch solution. One at a time I etched the spars, and two at a time I etched the inserts in my big PVC tube, sloshing continuously for 4 minute cycles.

The inserts were the last thing etched and the first things I ran through the Alodine process. They came out looking pretty nice. The spars came out splotchier than most parts that I have Alodined. Until this job I have been able to run them directly from etch to rinse to Alodine without drying the parts. The instructions say that if you don't dry them they might not be uniform. Working alone and needing to get all the way through etching all the parts before I could Alodine them made the job challenging. And lest anyone think they're splotchy or terrible they look fine, just not perfect. They didn't pick up quite as much color as usual but again, no real impact on the treatment process.

The lack of uniformity has no impact, and I'm used to seeing parts like this. They were treated with etch and Alodine so the job is done. I was pretty worn out by the time I cleaned up. Actual hands on time (not including the tennis ball acetone task) was about 2.5 hours. Damn glad I'm not building a biplane.

Tomorrow I'll start the process of sliding the inserts into the spars.

Alex, you said you should have seen it coming a mile away. What could you have done to prevent using them motorbike cnc block windshield spacers. Increased the length of the saw horses? Also, do you think it's necessary to notch out the ribs for the rivets being in the way? they would have only been a mill or 2 out on either end. I am just starting to build my horses now, and I will put some pics up on team kitfox. Your channel and forum is a great help thanks.

alexM

11-05-2023, 10:15 AM

Well I did not make it as far as engine start, but I'll have to get some beers in the fridge for Geek real soon.

https://youtu.be/Zi_UpUzBCT4

Eric Page

11-05-2023, 01:53 PM

Wow, huge progress Alex. Well done. If you need good welding done and don't want to lose a day on the road, just send it down to me. I'll drive it over to Steve Furjesi's shop then send it back.

Speaking of which, I ran into Steve at a neighbor's BBQ recently. Turns out he's happy to come by my place with a portable welder, so I can get him to add tabs for ELT mounting, seat pan anchors, etc.

alexM

11-05-2023, 02:51 PM

I totally forgot about Steve. Dang it!

alexM

12-10-2023, 09:51 PM

Engine start day is coming soon
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Before I packed it in tonight I had the throttle cable installed. Still working out the routing to make it work perfectly smooth and have full travel, but I'm getting there. Hoping to drag it over to the fuel pump tomorrow to put a few gallons in the tanks. I'll check for leaks and then run some gas through the pumps and clear the lines (per the Airflow Performance manual).

Geek

12-11-2023, 08:54 AM

alexM

12-11-2023, 08:29 PM

Nice work on the plumbing Alex!! Doesn't look like you were using two left hands at all. Of course you are getting close when I have to go out of town for a week or so. Driving with my daughter who's changing duty stations from Providence RI to Memphis. Keep my beers cold cause I'll figure out a time to come see your work of art after the fact and I'll pretend if you start the engine that it's the first time.

Gary

Geek,
Family first! I'll squirt some oil in the exhaust when you visit so you get the full effect.

I worked out the throttle cable today. Started on the mixture cable too but stopped when I realized I don't understand how that cross drilled bolt I got with the cable is supposed to work (sure seems like it won't). Pushed that off to tomorrow and worked other items.

Today was the first time I put (partial) battery power to the plane. No smoke, so I'm calling it a win. Tomorrow I'll be firing up at least of of the PFDs along with the engine management.

alexM

01-06-2024, 09:38 PM

Tomorrow is the day for first engine start.

Fuel System
Today I pushed the plane over to the gas pump and put 3.5 gallons in each tank. I wanted there to be enough to slosh around and fill up the header tank, and to run the pumps and purge the air, crap and goo - and of course to leak check the system.

After filling both tanks I looked underneath to see if anything was dripping, and it was not. I put away the hose, ladder and ground cable then turned around to see some fuel dripping. Most obvious was the plug on the header tank where the fuel return line would go if I had one. It was finger tight. I cranked it more finger tight, and it almost stopped.

I pushed the plane quickly back over to my hangar where my tools where and left it outside so I could deal with the leaks. One of the last minute changes which slowed me down was that I wanted to replace the sump tank drain with one of the kind you push in and rotate so that it stays "open". I wanted that for two reasons. First, because if I discovered leaks at this stage I wanted to be able to get all the gas out quickly and fix it.
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More importantly, in order to fold the wings you are supposed to drain the fuel tanks. What could be easier than draining the entire fuel system from its lowest point? I watched a certain youtuber complain about draining fuel from each wing sump and this just seemed like an easy solution. For the record that's 1/8" NPT , not the 1/4" NPT I ordered the first time around. Curtis CCA-1550 is the part number. Note: There's only one time that you can swap that fitting out, and it's when the system is completely dry. Also, you can't put these on your wing tanks because we have an issue with the doors hitting the sump drains as it is. These would be a real problem up there.

The valve came in super handy today, because I found no less than 6 places that were not completely dry. Besides the unused fuel return line plug, two of the fittings on top of the header tank and one of the fittings to my fuel shut off valve needed to be addressed. All except that plug responded well to just being tightened up a bit.

I drained all of the fuel into a pair of 5 gallon gas cans, but before I did that I performed the task that was the reason for all of this: I ran the both fuel pumps to purge air and anything else in the lines. I did get out some disgusting crap from the fuel pumps but it cleared up after about a quart. My Airflow Performance manual said to run 1/2 to 1 gallon. I ran it just over 1/2 and it was pure 100LL by then, so I stopped.

Then I drained the fuel into the cans. I removed the plug and all three of the lines going into the top of the header tank so I could put that blue goo on the NPT fittings. I let them air dry and reinstalled them. After running the pumps I discovered another fitting (the 6th one) on the forward side of the firewall that I didn't have tight enough.

I removed the temporary fuel line that I had made up to catch all the crappy stuff and reinstalled the line to the fuel servo. I'm quite confident I have a dry fuel system now.

Battery power
Next I decided to make sure my battery was fully charged. I bought it about six months ago and was worried about the charge decaying over time. I had just received a charger from EarthX for the job. In installed the pigtail that will make future charging easy, and hooked up the charger. I was quite surprised when the charger showed better than 75% and only took about 15 minutes before it was completely charged.
I did not want the highlight of my day tomorrow to be pushing the starter button only to hear "R-rr....r".

MGL displays
For a first engine start to be successful I need to be able to watch the oil pressure. I can live without pretty much every other indication for a ground test except for that. Way back in 2021 I messed around with the custom MGL screen design software, aka "the simulator" because it performs the dual function of creating and testing your screen designs. After a steep learning curve I eventually got a set of displays that were about 90% of what I had in mind. My first attempt at installing my custom screens didn't come out great, but at least I could see my oil pressure, and no smoke came out of the MX1.
A couple of weeks ago I took another swing at custom screens, but this time everything clicked and I was able to produce exactly what I had in mind and save those to an SD card.
This evening i was able to update the firmware, update the NAV waypoint database, update the VFR sectional overlays, upload my custom screens AND get the MX1 display to use them! High fives and a beer for the entire crew [me].
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I need to throw some Kentucky windage at some of the input signals but at this point I'm ready to start the engine.

Jez

01-07-2024, 07:54 AM

https://youtu.be/2G1nCaCM23g?si=BbmoySqoA6rxj6XM

Hi Alex, watch this and read the comments. You do not need to empty tanks apparently if you raise the tail.

Geek

01-07-2024, 09:51 AM

Best of luck with the engine start today Alex!! I really wanted to be there (mostly to drink your beer that you seem to be bogarting) and hear the beast come to life but not sure I am a full up round just yet. Know it will be awesome with all the great work you have done!!!! Expect video with sound or it didn't happen!!

Quick question on your header tank valve. Are you using the aluminum header tank on your plane? Think it sounds like a great idea and might convert mine over.

Geek

Eric Page

01-07-2024, 05:20 PM

Yeah, me too, and I didn't even want to drink your beer! Instead I got to spend 6 hrs 50 min in the Portland airport waiting for a plane to get fixed. So much glamour in this job, I can hardly stand it...

Hope it all went well!

alexM

01-08-2024, 02:21 PM

Well I did not start my engine. Not to be confused with "it wouldn't start".

It was raining yesterday morning when I got to my hangar so I decided to keep busy by relocating my brake fluid reservoir, then filling and bleeding the brakes. I had the simple aluminum reservoir located on the aft side of the firewall (per the manual instructions for Lycoming and Continental engine users). That reservoir is held to a fuselage tube with two Adel clamps. I never loved that location because it would make servicing, and therefore condition inspections, more difficult.

In my pile of parts was the nicer looking Grove reservoir, which matched up perfectly to the pre-existing holes on my 912ULS firewall. So I dorked around for 2-3 hours doing all the plumbing. The rain stopped about the time that I filled the system with bubbles and 5606. I wasted way too much time with a Chinese garbage set up for vacuum bleeding and before long I had 5606 in many places it isn't intended to be applied.

As the sun faded away my hangar neighbor came by and offered me the use of his pressure bleeder set up. He humbly described the way it worked and it didn't sound much different than what I was doing, but he dropped it off and went home. It wasn't a pretty contraption but I didn't have much to lose by trying it out. I had never achieved better than about an 80/20 mixture of 5606/air bubbles so I decided to give his version a go.

Ten minutes later I was done. Four rock hard brake pedals and no air. I had used a straight fitting with a piece of brake line out the top of my reservoir to the nearly empty bottle I had poured my 5606 from, so the reservoir was 100% full. I used a syringe to extract just a bit from the top and put the cap on. I put away my tools and vowed that I would return today to run the engine.

Well, today would be the day except it is raining. In another couple of hours I have to drive over the mountains to go to work, and the pass conditions are "chains required except AWD". I'll need to pad my typical travel time by a couple of hours to make sure I get to work on time.

Jez,
Thanks for the link. I'll watch it when able. I'm still a fan of single point de-fueling, so I have no regrets that I waited and installed the sump drain.

Geek,
Yes, I'm rocking the aluminum header tank. Like many parts, my project came with both versions. The plastic version doesn't have a great track record at keeping wet stuff inside, so I sold it to someone who wanted it (and was aware of its reputation).

Eric,
You could have driven home for a nap if you were stuck in PDX that long. Hey at least you have the only civilian job in the world where you can wear epaulets and not be laughed at.

Engine start day has now been postponed until Jan 18. Er, weather permitting.

Eric Page

01-08-2024, 10:24 PM

Engine start day has now been postponed until Jan 18. Er, weather permitting.
Fingers crossed -- I'm off that day!

Geek

01-09-2024, 10:45 AM

Well I did not start my engine. Not to be confused with "it wouldn't start"...............Well, today would be the day except it is raining. In another couple of hours I have to drive over the mountains to go to work, and the pass conditions are "chains required except AWD". I'll need to pad my typical travel time by a couple of hours to make sure I get to work on time...............

Engine start day has now been postponed until Jan 18. Er, weather permitting.

Hope you made it over the passes last night Alex. We picked up about 12" last night and I heard that both 90 and 2 were nasty at best.

The 18th eh? Might be a player for me too!!

Geek

alexM

01-14-2024, 09:24 PM

Lots more to follow. It was a long day.

https://youtu.be/MAZmThQU6zc
Now I need to lay in a supply of cold beer and pretend this never happened.

Eric Page

01-14-2024, 10:31 PM

Well played, sir! I had a feeling that was going to happen. Lots of unnecessary pressure with gawkers on site...

It sounds amazing; can't wait to hear it run in person. Congrats!

Geek

01-15-2024, 09:36 AM

What Eric said!!! That is Kitfox porn I swear. Think you need to put an oil injector in there to get the initial smoke we expect to see from a radial start but oh you have to be smiling large right now. Great step in your long effort to get this bad boy alive. Agree too that you need to get your supply of cold beer since you faked us with the 18th date.

Nice work Alex

Geek

bumsteer

01-15-2024, 12:12 PM

Alex, looks and sounds great!!

Rick

jrevens

01-15-2024, 11:01 PM

Nice! Really nice!!! What a beautiful machine.

bbs428

01-16-2024, 08:40 AM

That will get the blood pumping! Looks and Sounds great!

efwd

01-17-2024, 07:30 PM

Im stayin away from that thing! I'll want to go buy a new engine. Oh, then a prop change required and then and then..... That is so what I wanted when I went to the factory and ordered my kit. I really envy you. Nice!

Jez

01-19-2024, 07:58 AM

Cool, very nice Alex. Nearly there

alexM

01-21-2024, 05:28 PM

I appreciate the comments. I had a list of items on my white board that I wanted to get out of the way before attempting the first start. My work schedule has been whacked out of alignment recently and I had a few unexpected days at home, so I worked the list.

At one point I put a few gallons of fuel in each side so I could run the pumps using a temporary line where it would normally enter the throttle servo (to purge the air and junk out of the system). What I didn't notice immediately was that I had a fuel leak at the main hose fitting on the right tank. I had to drain the system, let it dry, remove the fittings and redo the blue gooey stuff, then re install the fittings. It still had the tiniest of weeping, which was discouraging. As fuel leaks go it is hard to tell exactly where it is coming from, but I do have confidence in the tank, finger strainer and the 6AN hose fittings after my very careful removal/sealing job. That leaves the eBay banjo fitting as the most likely candidate. I ordered the banjo fittings from Kitfox and kept working the other things on my list.

The final thing to complete was the coil pack for the forward set of spark plugs, then cutting and routing the spark plug wires.

I didn't have much time left before having to go work, but I realized that I could pull of an engine start without putting gas back in the right tank. All I needed to do was put enough in the left side to fill the header tank. After two discouraging rounds of chasing the leak on the right tank I needed a win. So I pulled the plane outside and gave it a try. I didn't have anyone to observe if it was leaking gas or oil when it was running so I only ran it a few minutes, then shut it down to check for leaks. I was getting a tiny drip of fuel out of the throttle servo when the pumps were running, but the engine not running. There were no leaks when it was running. I contacted my engine importer who in turn contacted Airflow Performance, who have confirmed that is not supposed to happen. I'll follow their instructions for determining exactly where the leak is coming from and then I may need to ship it to them to fix it.

There were no oil leaks! It was between 15 and 20 degrees F when I did the engine runs. With no windshield the prop blast produced painful wind chill, so that was another reason for a few short runs.

I'm back home for just a few days. While I was waiting for flights at work I finalized my CAD model for my instrument panel. I've added some parts I'll show later on which contain my fuse blocks and also the MGL iEFIS Extender (the only component that didn't have a home yet). I sent those flat patterns (and the one for my throttle and mixture cables) off to SendCutSend to be fabricated. The pieces behind the panel will be anodized (my panel is too large for their anodizing tanks apparently).

I have been trying to find a place to do the laser engraving and not having any luck. I decided to see if anyone could screen print on metal and found a place over on the Olympic Peninsula. I sent and inquiry and picture and the guy called me immediately. He told me I would be happier if I had it laser engraved and gave me the contact information for "Laser Bob" in Port Ludlow. He's going to take care of the surface finish and engraving for me.
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The door in the middle covers my fuse blocks and provides easy access. I'm having three of those doors made so I can experiment with mounting an iPad mini, GoPro, etc on there without worrying I'll do something I regret.

Redline

01-21-2024, 09:39 PM

That panel looks nice! We had ours cut at Send Cut Send as well and it turned out great. This is a beautiful build Alex.

PapuaPilot

01-22-2024, 09:16 AM

Geek

01-22-2024, 09:32 AM

Panel looks great Alex. Like the space shuttle switch guards! I too had a couple of those eBay banjo fittings and they did leak. I did the same as you and ordered the ones that Kitfox uses. No issues now. (knock on wood) I didn't have to drain my tanks to change it. Just folded the wings and the fuel in the tank sat down on the lower edge. The upper age of the tank where the fitting is was dry.

Geek

alexM

01-22-2024, 10:46 AM

Alex, the engine run sounded super cool. I hope you can get the leaks sorted out quickly.

Your panel looks nice. Food for thought. I see the "Certified for Day VFR use only" that you plan to engrave on the panel. Are you sure you aren't ever going to equip it with approved nav and position lights to make it night compliant? For night you only need to comply with FAR 91.205 (c) requirements to make it night compliant. I initially had non-TSO nav/strobe lights and upgraded to a set of AeroLED which met the TSO standards.

Phil,
I threw that limitation on the panel to head off having a DAR force me to make an ugly sticker, but you're not the first person to ask why I would put that on there. Maybe I'll omit that before I visit with Laser Bob. Then I could put that day VFR limitation on one of the extra removable panels in the middle to make DAR happy.

Panel looks great Alex. Like the space shuttle switch guards! I too had a couple of those eBay banjo fittings and they did leak. I did the same as you and ordered the ones that Kitfox uses. No issues now. (knock on wood) I didn't have to drain my tanks to change it. Just folded the wings and the fuel in the tank sat down on the lower edge. The upper age of the tank where the fitting is was dry.
Geek,
I was researching pipe fittings last night and think I might have figured out why those ebay fittings don't work. They're being sold as NPT but they may actually be a British standard (BSTP?). They are still a 3/8" thread and twist together perfectly, but the angle of the taper is different so it results in a single point of contact. Either that or they are just eBay garbage. My left tank fitting is dry, but I'll be replacing both when my Kitfox order arrives.