Insurance Woes !

[Flyin Farmer]

I am having trouble getting my required dual time in a kit Fox they require 0nly 1 hour dual if I waive my hull insurance of which I have acquired .5 then there was an accident which claimed the life of my instructor and things have been in limbo ever since. Is there a CFI out there with a Kit Fox who could help me get my required time? I have completed my model 111 and I am ready to test fly, very frustrating to say the least. I am open to any ideas or thoughts but afraid to fly with out at least liability insurance coverage. Thanks Greg. ps. I live in central PA

[fastfred]

I made it flycation and went to stick and rudder in Idaho and did up right. Many of us will highly recommend it. There are also several of us in the northeast that went through the same thing and I don't think there is anyone with a factory SLSA and is a CFI in the Northeast. I also pressed the insurance company for the exact wording and they said I could use any CFI for the type aircraft like single engine land tailwheel.

[beeryboats]

I have worried about the insurance myself. I'm to the engine break in stage of my IV rebuild. I have over 100 hours of taildragger time, but none in a kitfox. And it has been way too many years since my last bi-annual.
I always wondered how my dad got insurance in is Baby Great Lakes for both of us. It was single place. What's interesting is my dad just bought the same Vagabond I learned to fly in last year. It had been 34 years since I flew that airplane last and it was like getting back on a bike. Every landing was perfect. So what would the insurance company do in that case? Not only is it the same type of aircraft, it's the exact same aircraft! Dad even gave me left seat, the side with the only brakes. That's trust! And those of you doing the math, Dad is 89 and still flying.

[avidflyer]

My flying partner was just pricing insurance for the Aeronca Chief we own together. Quote from Falcon was 1250 for 22,000 hull ins. Another friend said his Luscombe is about $750 for $17,500 hull value. He has Butler Brown Ins. We tried them, and got a quote of $770. I had never heard of them till a couple of weeks ago, glad I found out about them. JImChuk

[Shadowrider]

Who is the underwriter do you know?

[avidflyer]

I don't know, I wasn't involved in getting the quote. JImChuk

[dbandel]

Flyin Farmer,

Usually the insurance Company wants you to have "time in type", not necessarily the EXACT make/model aircraft you will be flying. The FAA has a training page that lists flight schools that provide tail wheel endorsement training at https://www.faaflightschools.com/tail-wheel/

There are two in PA, ATS Aero Services in Lititz, PA http://www.aerotechservices.com/flight-lessons/ and Borzoya Aero in Slatington, PA http://www.borzoyaaero.com/.

[109JB]

This is not true. A policy can state whatever the insurance company wants it to say. This is directly from my policy for my Kitfox:

Prior to acting as pilot in command of the aircraft during the policy period, any of the foregoing who
have not logged 5 hours in this make and model aircraft must have satisfactorily completed a checkout
from a Certified Flight Instructor (CFI) in this make and model aircraft.

[Shadowrider]

Looks like I am self insuring for the first 40 hours:eek: Then I will try again for quotes.

[efwd]

My insurance required 1 hour of time in type, not necessarily a KF, before first flight. Interestingly, they wanted more than twice the annual premium ($5000 to be exact) to cover the plane during the first 10hrs. After ten hours, my plane became covered under the policy. I didn't purchase the coverage for the first 10 hours. I suspect I will have over 200hrs of tailwheel time, all in Kitfoxes, when I renew next March. I'm really curious how much my premium changes, if any, as they claimed it would when I had more hours.

[fastfred]

I agree call your agent and tell them your problem. Mine said any CFI with time in your type aircraft can go with you but I had to press them on it. And get it in writing.

[aviator79]

For most intents and purposes regarding flight experience, "type" and "make and model" are synonymous. I only point it out because if you need to file a claim, and you disagree with the underwriter about the meanings of these words, you're probably not getting paid.

I was able to find a $1500 policy that covered me from my first flight. I thought that seemed high, but now I feel lucky to have been covered at all. I too was told that the rate would probably be significantly less once I had 100 hours make/model. I'll definitely be beyond that when it's time to renew.

[Wheels]

I wish money grew on trees, but if it did, few of us would build or maintain our own planes. I hired a CFI who said he was Kitfox qualified. He wrecked my plane and I spent months and thousands of dollars repairing it. find the money you need to have the quality and qualified instructor you need. Ask to see his logbook entry of the last Kitfox he instructed in. or ....
Go to Stick and rudder and learn the right way to fly your ship.
It is the best insurance you will ever buy and it will last a lifetime.
I did it 12 years ago but I know those guys. You worked way too hard to put your plane together to make a dumb Kitfox common error and end up with repairs.
Paul often ferry planes from around the country. Call and see if he or one of his guys is coming out anytime soon. or meet them where they are flying. I did that for a biannual recently and saved a lot of time.
good luck, send pics

[Shadowrider]

I hear you all. Honestly I don't care about the money. I really do, but I want insurance for the last year of my life.... but no one seems to think its worth that much.:(

[Flyin Farmer]

Thanks for all the replies it seems I have reached a compromise with the insurance co.I can test fly my kitfox with reduced liability and no hull insurance for 10 hours after which my original policy will resume not exactly what I would like but will get me flyin.I understand they are assuming a risk but they are getting well paid for it and have us at their mercy.For those wondering my premium is a little over 1400.00 a year for 1000000 liability and 25000 hull

[JoeRuscito]

For most intents and purposes regarding flight experience, "type" and "make and model" are synonymous...

Brian who did you use for insurance? Im getting quotes in the $3000 range! Low tailwheel time (by the time I insure Ill have about 30 hours 10 in a Kitfox with S&R). Also a low time pilot, about 180 hours. Ill mention that is with the hull mostly covered

[aviator79]

I got quotes from several agencies that each shopped several providers. The best rate I got was through AOPA's insurance agency, underwritten by Starr. It's worth shopping around the different agencies. I shopped AOPA (Assured), EAA (Falcon), BWI, and Regal (recommended by Paul Leadebrand). I was quoted prices all over the place. I have $70k hull, $1M/$100k liability. When I got the policy, I had about 50 hrs tailwheel and 10 hrs in a Kitfox. I'm not a high-time pilot at ~1700 hrs, but I am a CFI/II/MEI, so the extra time and ratings may be a big factor.

[PapuaPilot]

Yes, shop around. I just asked one of the big name companies for a quote. Unfortunately (for them) it was 70% more than I am paying through AOPA. I am sticking with AOPA.

Also ask about things that you can do that would give discounts.

[Shadowrider]

I have not been a member for awhile. So I assume join AOPA, then ask for a quote?

[aviator79]

Yup.

Also, for comparison's sake, the rate I described above is for zero deductible.

[efwd]

I didn't get great quotes from those that I thought I would. AOPA, EAA etc etc. Call John at Kitfox. He was the lead for my insurance but I don't recall the contact info and Im at work so I can't get to it. Im a low time pilot. 250 hrs at that time with a commercial, instrument and only the minimum tailwheel time. I also had been out of flying for 25 years until my BFR I just finished at the time of my build completion. I didn't do too bad on the price of insurance (thought I would do better) but I am looking forward to building the time so I get to those numbers that others have reported. I would be much happier at $1500/yr. for my plane. Not sure what it is I will end up with after a couple hundred addtl hours. Anything helps I suppose.