ELT false activation

[JoeRuscito]

I turned my ACK E-04 ELT to armed for the first time today with the intention of testing the GPS data as per the ACK manual and as soon as I turned the switch to armed it started sending a distress signal. Called search and rescue and made them aware I am OK. Also Im in contact with ACK and they are helping me troubleshoot but dont have an answer yet they think it might be EMF. To that point my elt is mounted in the factory position (under turtle deck on the right side), My comm antenna is mounted on the plate behind the turtle deck, my ADSB/XPDR antenna is on the right plate behind the seat on the bottom of fuselage, Remote XPDR is on the left side of the turtle deck opposite the ELT but same position. The remote for the transponder is on the panel which means the cable is run under the center console with all the other things that go to the panel. I figured Id see what you guys thought or if any one has run into this issue. I assume everyones set up is similar from a wire routing position of components standpoint.

Thanks for the help!

[Delta Whisky]

Joe - have you checked the cable for a short? Were all other instruments off when the trouble occurred?

[JoeRuscito]

I did not check the cable for a short, seems unlikely but Ill take a look. I forgot to mention that it is intermittent. The first time it send the distress almost immediately, others it takes a few minutes. Once I had it armed and when I turned on the avionics it activated immediately, other times it does not. That being said, it does not activate when the avionics are all off. So I know its something interacting with it. But I cannot figure out what would cause it to be intermittent. I would think it if activates when I turn everything on it would always do so but that doesn't seem to be the case.

[GuppyWN]

I’d disconnect the remote switch and try it again.

[Shadowrider]

Test the theory if it is EMF. I have heard the transponder is very noisy and can cause issues. Have you tried turning off the transponder? Shut it off on the VPX and see if it the ELT activates again? I ran my ELT phone cable on the right side of the fueslage away from all other wires. How involved would it be to reroute you wire away from the transponder antenna and transponder antenna wire ?

[rv9ralph]

Joe,
Do you have a Garmin G3? In the past I had a friend that had a G3 and it tripped his ELT. I believe it had to do with the proximity of the transponder antenna coax. If you are having more issues, I can contact him to find the specifics. It has been a few years since he relayed the issue to me and I don't remember all the details.

Ralph

[JoeRuscito]

Thanks all, so far it looks like it may be the routing of the remote wire. I unplugged and seems to be working now. I have new wire on the way because rerouting would be a PIA! But I can cut the old wire and pull out no problem. So Ill try along the right side and see what happens. ACK also suggested tin-foiling (wrapping) the ELT to keep stray EMF out.

[Jaguar56]

Right there with you on the ACK. I replaced my AmeriKing with an ACK in May and have had false triggers ever since. I am getting to know the Air Force guy pretty well. I had heard about the remote wire collecting signals and causing false triggers. Mine typically would go off when turning on the master. But at times it would wait until I was in the air. Likely a response to the radio or even the trim. When the remote is disconnected it will not trigger.

I pulled my remote cable (essentially an old style analog phone cord) and shielded it with aluminum then re-routed it away from all other wires. It did not help. As soon as the master was turned on the ELT triggered. Thinking I had done about all I could I called ACK. Have to say I am not too impressed. They sent a checklist to fill out. Their plan is to isolate what is causing problems with their snowflake system and then having me adjust/remove the offending device. Not sure that is going to be possible. They seem to have a very low impression of Experimental aircraft.

My next move might be to shield the switch. Then ask them for a replacement switch. I am also concerned about the battery. I have been able to turn it off quickly when it triggers, essentially what a test would be. But it is now adding up. Based on their responses the possibility of them replacing the battery seems remote.

Last ditch I may go without connecting the remote. I have a PLB that I wear as well.

[PapuaPilot]

It happened to me once with my ACK-04 ELT. ACK said it was most likely being caused by my Garmin transponder. I ended up making my own shielded cable to replace the telephone cable. I also rerouted it away from the transponder antenna cable and have not had a problem since.

[bradrau]

Joe,
What was your final fix for this ELT issue? I seem to be having the same problem with my transponder causing my ACK E-04 to activate.
I have a GTX 335 with the antenna mounted to the plate behind the copilot seat and the ELT mounted to the the plate behind the pilot seat. I have ran shielded cable to the ELT remote with a single ground on the shield at the panel. I also tried shielding the ELT with foil with no help. I've even tried moving the ELT to different locations to try and get more separation from the transponder antenna which seems to help a little but I still get random ELT triggers. I know it is being caused by the RF radiated from the transponder antenna because the problem goes away if I connect an RF dummy load on the transponder. I running out of ideas and was wondering how you solved your problem.

Thanks,
Brad

[Jaguar56]

Send it back to ACK! I had all of the same problems and the same response from ACK. If it is an experimental it must be you. It's not.
I went for months with it off and just carried my PLB as I expected nothing but pushback from ACK. I heard of someone at the local airport that had the same problem, sent it back and it has since worked fine. I finally sent mine back and asked them to inspect it as it would go off in flight from thermal activity with nothing but the antenna connected.
I got a message back from them immediately saying they were installing a new updated circuit board. They asked that I give them feedback.

I originally just armed it and did not connect anything but the antenna. It worked! I was able to fly for hours in thermal activity with no activation. For the last two flights I connected the remote and it worked fine until yesterday. In some minor thermals it went off. No other activity other than the radio. I do not have it connected to GPS. I was able to turn it off at the remote. So I would have to say it is much better, but still much too sensitive.

Stop taking their BS and push back. They have an ELT that is entirely too sensitive. There are stories all over the internet with people having the same problem.

[JoeRuscito]

My personal fix was to run the remote wire completely separate from everything else. My elt is mounted behind the copilot, so I ran the remote wire up the right side of the fuselage between the fabric and large cockpit reinforcement plates. It’s worked since. I believe the gps can set it off when it first connect to satellites and the transponder box can effect it.

I will also say. I’ve never had it go off in thermals. But once I did have it go off on the ground when I crossed a dirt road on a grass strip at taxi speeds. The odd thing was I had landed much harder than the bump crossing the road well after rollout.


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[neville]

Put the dummy load on the ELT and see if it still goes active when the transponder is on. Because of these problems I mounted the ELT antenna inside the vertical stabilizer to keep that antenna as far away from other antennas as possible. I can attest to the fact that being inside the stabilizer does not cause much signal loss as one time when I had finished the annual ELT tests I inadvertently put the switch in ON instead of ARM. About 10 minutes later I got a phone call from NOAA. They were nice about it. So since then I leave the radio on 121.5 until after Reinstalling the ELT. Also the aircraft was in the hangar at the time.

[Shadowrider]

Joe, personally I would not call that fixed if you get a false activation crossing a dirt road? Doing it again I would not use this elt. I went with it because kitfox recommends it and sold them to us, but personally have not been impressed with it. I have not had any false activations, just the remote switch is cheaply made and switch plastic housing cracked not long after installing it. If mine ever gives me a false activation I think I will toss it.

[jiott]

I have been using the ACK E-04 for 7 years in my SS7 with no problems whatsoever. It is mounted behind the pilot on the side of the baggage compartment. The antenna is also in that same location just below the ELT.

[JoeRuscito]

Dustin I think I would normally agree with you but I think they are independent issues. Also I look at that activation as a fluke because it has never happened before or since and Ive landed/bumped the plane around much harder prior and since.

Moving the remote wire did solve the non-moving activation I was having in my garage.

The remote is made a bit cheaply but mine had not cracked yet...

[jrevens]

My experience hasn’t been as long, but it is the same as Jim’s (jiott).

[bumsteer]

For Jim (jlott) and John (jrevens). I am considering using this ELT. Since it apppears the the remote switch and it's wiring contribute to or cause the problem and you gentlemen have not had problems, when you get a chance could you explain how you wired your system. Airtex now has a model in the same price range but from some reviews I've seen, it seems to come with its own problems including false activation. Thanks in advance.

Rick

[Shadowrider]

Joe glad its working for you now. The remote housing that mounts to the panel is what cracks. It cracks on the seam of the plastic. Both of ours are cracked. Probably wouldn't notice it but things like this bother me. Airtex is the brand I would probably go with because of the panel mount switch looks nicer and looks to be better quality but if they are having similar issues.......

Just to be clear, we have not had any false activations. We took the recommendations of others and did not bundle elt remote wires with any other wires. Ran them separate on the right side of the aircraft. Also I was told the transponder antenna is noisy and can also cause problems. We installed the transponder antenna as far back in the tail of the fuselage as I could reach, I have long arms, climbing in the baggage area.

[PapuaPilot]

Airtex now has a model in the same price range but from some reviews I've seen, it seems to come with its own problems including false activation.
Rick

I have the ACK E-04 in my plane and have only had one false activation in 4 years use. I fixed it by repositioning the cables and making a shielded cable to replace the telephone cable to the remote switch/beeper.

I'm very curious what you have heard about the Artex ELT 345?

I have installed a couple of the Artex 345 ELTs in certified aircraft and think they have some nicer features over the ACK.

They cost about the same new
The Artex battery is good for 6 years vs. 5 yr. on the ACK. The replacement battery cost is about the same.
The Artex doesn't have the cheap telephone cord like the ACK does for the remote switch
I like that you can connect the Artex remote switch wire with shielded cable, they actually suggest that you do so
The Artex has one battery that does everything. The ACK has 3 batteries; the main one, the remote switch and beeper. This lead to a problem for me, read on.

I just finished my condition inspection and found that the remote switch was not testing or activating the ACK-E04. The "10 year" lithium battery I put in the remote switch was dead after 5 years. :( ACK suggests doing the the ELT test with the remote switch every 3 months. I guess I need to be more careful to do that. Sadly if I needed to activate the ELT from the cockpit it wouldn't have worked with that battery dead. This means the ACK has another point of failure that the Artex doesn't have.

[Shadowrider]

Thanks for this info Phil. I agree with all your points.

[efwd]

I have the Artex 345. No problems. It is mounted on the floor under the baggage area behind the copilot seat. It is on the antenna mount on the right side while the Xpdr/ADSB antenna are mounted on the opposite antenna mount, behind the pilot. That isn't even 3 feet away from one another and it works fine. I have not had any false activation to my knowledge. I used shielded wire and ran it right along with all the other wiring from the back. That includes the trim motor wiring, both auto pilot servos as well as the safety trim wiring. I only ran antenna coaxial down the right side of the cockpit opposite the electrical.

[bumsteer]

The initial reviews on the Artex 350 I read were the ones on ACS. Did some more looking around and most reviews are positive. Since it only uses one battery compared to three for the ACK think I'll go with Artex.

Rick

[jrevens]

I didn't do any of the things installing my ACK that some have said are helpful. I used the flat "telephone" cable - actually made a new longer one. I ran the wires right along with everything else that I have going down that side of the fuselage. The antenna is inside the fuselage, in relatively close proximity to the transponder antenna. The small mounting plate for it is grounded to the fuselage tubing. The ELT is mounted on a plate I installed behind the right seat, above the antenna. Knock on wood... I haven't had any false triggering in 2 years, and the unit tests out fine. That being said, I think the Artex 345 looks good, and I would probably choose it over the ACK unit if I replace it. The only thing that doesn't appeal to me about the Artex is that there is no "off" switch. In order to deactivate it you have to remove the battery. I don't particularly like that.

24408

[JoeRuscito]

I'm back to having false activation on my ACK E-04! Worse than ever and nothing has changed. It worked great for over 350 flight hours with only one false trip over a weird runway bump. ACK is being less than helpful I must say but I have been going back and forth through email (very short responses) and working on the problem.

It first cropped up when I was flying low over a lake (no one around) and when I got within 3-4 ft of the surface it went off. Popped up and reset, descended to test again, same thing.

Then it went away for a few days, then I turned on the avionics one day and its going off. Reset, shut down, Start back up, again... Rinse and repeat. Came back the next day, no issues, I chocked it up to some GPS notam that was happening in the area that day and went flying.

Now, if I'm out doing touch and go's, just prior to touch down, 1-2 ft off the ground it will go off, I reset and keep rolling and it will do it a hand full of times right before touchdown. Some days every landing, some days, not once.

I'm about to pull it and replace it with something else and/or send back to ACK. Hopefully someone here can help me diagnose!

Thanks.

[PapuaPilot]

Oh boy, that's crazy. You said it is happening just above the surface so I won't ask you how hard your landings are .

I have couple of ideas.
First, fly with your transponder turned off (if you can)and do some low passes & landings to duplicate the scenario.
Next, maybe you could disconnect the remote switch’sphone cable at the ELT and do some landings. You will need to monitor on 121.5 forELT activation. Resetting the ELT would be a pain because you will need to getto the ELT switch. This would probably trigger a 406 transmission. I think youhave about 50 seconds to cancel it before it sends the 406 data. Maybe youcould advise your local ATC and the people that respond to the 406 calls (AirForce??) and let them know you will be doing some testing that might activateyour 406 ELT.
Also, I would inspect the remote cable’s connections,security, for chaffing, etc.
Honestly if you and ACK can’t solve this I would belooking to replace it with another brand.

[Jerrytex]

Curious to know if you ever got this worked out? I am at the point that I need to buy an ELT for my project and don't want to buy a problem.

[JoeRuscito]

I did not. Fortunately it went away for the time being. Its very difficult for me to diagnose these intermittent issues and ACK is zero help what so ever. I highly suggest going with another brand even at a premium. I will seriously consider paying for another ELT and replacing it if it crops up again.

[Shadowrider]

I second Joes recommendation. These ELTS feel like fisher price to me.

[Jerrytex]

Thanks for the info. I'll look at other brands.

[Dave S]

Jerry,

FWIW - The Artex ME 406 with the whip antenna has worked perfectly in our airplane since new - no false activations ever. I think most people shy away from it due to the cost - Used to be $1000, now about 50% more so not cheap. The battery is about $200 And is good for 7 years.

I tried to save money on an encoder and originally purchased the Ameri King one which was crap - screwed up 3 times and replaced; and, eventually the company got in trouble for manufacturing unapproved parts and went backrupt (after I replaced it of course) - I decided some people charge less because they know what their junk is worth so I have stayed away from cheap electronics ever since. Ameri King had the same problem (unapproved parts) with their ELTs so if you find a used one of those - don't put it in your plane.

[Jerrytex]

I think I am going to go with the Artex brand. I would like to go with the ME 406 but the price is a budget blower. I am looking at the 345. I sent a message to the manufacturer to check and see if it can be mounted upside down, or if the ELT can be flipped in the tray like the ACK brand so it can be mounted to the brackets under the turtle deck. The battery in the Artex is more expensive but it lasts 7 years instead of 6 so the price per year is within pennies of the ACK.

[Dave S]

Jerry,

For what it is worth, when I purchased the ME406, Artex did not have the 345 in production/available yet. If they had, I would probably have purchased the 345 also.

[bumsteer]

I'm also going with the Artex 345 and wanted to know if it could be mounted upside down. I called one of the tech support numbers today and left a message. I promptly received a reply and the unit can be mounted upside down as long as the arrow on the unit is facing forward.

Rick