Kitfox S7 Speedster with big tires QUESTION

[MSA]

Is the Speedster just an airport-to-airport bird, or can you switch out the smaller tires and wheel pants for bush tires as the need arises? Per the order form you can upgrade the Speedster to 6 inch wheels. Doesn't this mean you could just remove the smaller tires/wheel pants and add 26" Airstreaks whenever you wanted to do some off-airport stuff? And switch back as necessary? I'm talking taildragger configuration of course.

Thank you!

[efwd]

As I understood it, your absolutely correct on that assumption. The Speedster came out after I bought mine. I would have most likely bought that model if it had been an option. So, I spoke with John McBean when it was out. It wasn't but a passing question to him but from what I understood him to say was, My Series 7SS was the same plane with the exception of those items you mention regarding the gear. In addition, the wings are shorter as well. That meant I could have converted mine anytime I liked. Swap to the Tapered Grove gear and Tires and build myself the shorter wings. Viola I have a speedster. Oh, the empinage was also built with the wood ribs as does the Speedster.

[DesertFox4]

Hope this answers your questions about the incredible versatility of the Kitfox 7 Super Sport. I didn't get to fly it in this configuration darn it.
By the way. Welcome to the forums Mark.:o

23037

[MSA]

Thanks so much DF! That is truly amazing.

[Rik]

Is the Speedster just an airport-to-airport bird, or can you switch out the smaller tires and wheel pants for bush tires as the need arises? Per the order form you can upgrade the Speedster to 6 inch wheels. Doesn't this mean you could just remove the smaller tires/wheel pants and add 26" Airstreaks whenever you wanted to do some off-airport stuff? And switch back as necessary? I'm talking taildragger configuration of course.

Thank you!

I kinda spoke with McBean at the Livermore fly in (he had the silver 915is and the Green Speedster there) and he said these planes hit a wall speed wise, like there's not much sense in having one over the other as they both cruise fairly the same speeds. So my take was that if your not into the expensive bush tires at a pavement airport get the speedster. I thought the shorter wing and air steamed gear would have made more of a difference but he kinda dismissed that real quick like.

He did say the SS7 wing was far better for STOL than the speedster's, as expected, but it's not as if you can commute to a good area, change the gear and go STOL landing the plane. I was kinda thinking dual purpose flying but he thought I was nuts when he pointed out it's a 100 mph plane regardless of engine or configuration. So much for the spec's saying it's a 120-130 mph bird.

So airport bird, be it a tailwheel or nosewheel.

[Slyfox]

I have the speedster wing on my 4. actually it's a long wing cut down. I have dihedral in the wing. I can consistently land within 300ft. in fact my last landing a couple days ago I landed much shorter than that with calm winds and didn't even try. I think the big key on landing short is to be able to control your idle. I can pull hard back on my throttle and get lower than 2000rpm. what that does is cut out that float. so it's all up to the person flying the thing as for what is really going to happen on a short landing. I don't use flaps either. I know, people have tried to argue with me on that one. I love the light stick on landing with my electric trim in the back. I can't complain about my landings or take offs. I'm also not out to do stol competitions, just go out and have as much fun as I can. I also have 27.5 tires and spring gear and cruise at 115mph.

[MSA]

So Rik the speedster isn't actually any more speedy? What is its purpose then?

[Rik]

So Rik the speedster isn't actually any more speedy? What is its purpose then?


?? He didn't really enjoy my questions I felt as where I am there's not really anywhere that I "Know of" that we can go and land like they are doing in NorCal and Idaho, etc.. So I as coming from the angle of "How fast is this one "cruise" with the 912, 915? and he quickly pointed out that they are all 100 mph planes and that the Journey is the fun part.

True but if I'm in LA (currently here for a few more years) and I have to fly to Sacramento to go STOL stuff that' a journey at 90-100 mph just to get there before the fun would begin.

I thought, well I can almost haul two bigger tires in the speedster and then change on site and then change back and come home.. He didn't really like that thought of a dual purpose setup.

I think the speedster is really meant for a LSA customer that wants a fun plane and has no interest in back country landings. There was a time that most people just wanted an inexpensive fun plane and KF was one of the options.

Now everyone wants to be a back country cowboy.

[DesertFox4]

I’ve flown both the Kitfox models mentioned in this thread and with John aboard. The speeds listed were all demonstrated to me in flight.

The Speedster as I flew it in the original configuration, small tires and wheel pants, is a 130 mph aircraft on 100 hp.
It’s a very sporty, quick, extremely responsive aircraft. It completely lives up to it’s Speedster name.
After the large tires were installed I would expect to subtract the prerequisite 8-10 mph in cruise speed. As I stated in the previous post, I did not get to fly the Speedster with the large tires mounted.

The “standard” Kitfox wing can cruise 115-120 mph on 100 hp and retains all STOL capabilities for back country flying. Remember, the “standard” wing is found on all of Stick & Rudder’s back-country training Kitfox’.

The STi with 915 easily hits 110 mph although 100 mph seems a more efficient fuel burn cruise speed. It’s wing is designed for maximum STOL performance while giving up a minimum of cross-country cruise capability. It is a great choice and a fun aircraft for those that need or just enjoy maximum STOL capabilities out of their Kitfox.

[efwd]

sure wish I had the IFA prop.. I originally had 124 mph cruise but I needed to flatten the pitch to gain better climb. I prefer the climb out to be maximized during the phase 1 testing. I may or may not increase my pitch for better cruise. I am sitting at about 105mph currently but I usually sit around 5300 rpm rather than 5500. I do about 110 at 5500. Problem I have with 5500 is when the air is not smooth, I am constantly adjusting the throttle to keep from yellow lining the rpms. As I am still gaining confidence in my build, I hate seeing warning lights. :o

[Rik]

What do you think of this prop.. Seem's to easy...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C0j1r8cNgzE

[MSA]

On a related note, what types of places off-airport could you land with the wheel pants on the speedster and 6 inch wheels? Dry lake beds like we have here in southern California like El Mirage, etc.? High Sierra Fly in?

[aviator79]

I asked John about the Speedster wing when I ordered my kit, and he steered me toward the standard wing as well. I'm glad I listened to his advice. My guess is that when he said something about them "All being 100mph birds" He didn't mean that they all fly exactly 100 mph. In fact, his own plane is a 125 mph bird, big tires and all. He most likely meant that they all fly in about the same speed regime, and that if you're expecting to clip your wings and keep up with your RV buddies, it just isn't going to happen. My 7SS - standard wing - 914 - Airmaster will do 130 mph TAS pretty easily. It will go faster, but it's not a comfortable airplane to fly much faster than that. The light wing loading means a gnat fart is severe turbulence at that speed.

But to answer your original question - these are mix-and-match planes with the ordering options. You can put whatever wheels and tires on whichever wing you like if it suits your fancy. But you won't go 160 mph to your destination and then land on a postage stamp because you put big tires on a clipped wing Fox.

[aviator79]

On a related note, what types of places off-airport could you land with the wheel pants on the speedster and 6 inch wheels? Dry lake beds like we have here in southern California like El Mirage, etc.? High Sierra Fly in?

Dry lake beds and HSF should be a piece of cake. Even a lot of backcountry strips would be fine. There was an RV-6 with a nosewheel and wheel pants at a fairly rough gopher-holed dirt strip I was at a couple weeks ago. I wouldn't have done that, but that plane came and left undamaged.

[Rik]

Where can you determine if you can "legally" land at these places? I mean how do you know who's land this actually is?

[Rodney]

I have the regular Kitfox SS7 with the standard wing. Tricycle gear ( am changing it out to be a taildragger right now).

I could cruise all day at 120mph true airspeed. I have the Sensinich 3 blade composite prop and it was pitched slightly on the climb side. Still - it cruised very well. I run 5350 rpm for cruise.

Now, having said that, I am putting 27.5" aero classic tires on mine


27.5/10-8 4 PLY AERO CLASSIC SMOOTH TUNDRA TIRE (FAA APPROVED MODEL) Uses 850-10 Natural Tube (sku: GL-8525N) (http://www.desser.com/pc_product_detail.asp?key=B7CF9251EA814E3094F22364 8554A432)
SKU: 31329

Price: $590.00



Just looked at their website and I think the price went down since I bought mine.:p

Search for " Aero Classic Tundra " on their website. Lots of sizes. And - as you can see they don't cost 4K.

Also switched to Matco wheels/axles/brakes. Went for the double puck brakes.

Don't know what the cruise will be - but hopefully in a week or so I can get in the air and find out.

Regards
Rodney

[MSA]

"But to answer your original question - these are mix-and-match planes with the ordering options. You can put whatever wheels and tires on whichever wing you like if it suits your fancy. But you won't go 160 mph to your destination and then land on a postage stamp because you put big tires on a clipped wing Fox."

Thanks for the response. Not expecting that kind of capability at all. Just thought it would be fun to have a clean and nimble/sporty speedster for fun and airport-to-airport stuff at pretty good (Kitfox-relative) speed. And then to be able to switch to larger bush tires and hit some backcountry spots with respectable STOL ability.

Was thinking 914 with Airmaster prop.

[efwd]

I like that Helix prop. Very interesting.

[Rik]

I like that Helix prop. Very interesting.

Looking at their website in Germany, it doesn't show a price but I don't think its that expensive and there's no adjustment

[Shadowrider]

I don't think they are out yet. The video from Dan Johnson says they are currently testing on the rotax.

[aviator79]

Thanks for the response. Not expecting that kind of capability at all. Just thought it would be fun to have a clean and nimble/sporty speedster for fun and airport-to-airport stuff at pretty good (Kitfox-relative) speed. And then to be able to switch to larger bush tires and hit some backcountry spots with respectable STOL ability.

Was thinking 914 with Airmaster prop.

The time enroute saved by clipping your wings will be spent changing tires, and you won't have much baggage area left for a tent. I understand wanting the best of both worlds, but my advice is to keep it simple. Get all the speedster streamlined components, but keep the standard wing, which is fast enough and plenty nimble, and also lands well at high DA in the backcountry.

The 914/Airmaster is a great setup. Spendy, but worth it. You'll love it.

[BigD]

I have the speedster wing on my 4. actually it's a long wing cut down. I have dihedral in the wing. I can consistently land within 300ft. in fact my last landing a couple days ago I landed much shorter than that with calm winds and didn't even try. I think the big key on landing short is to be able to control your idle. I can pull hard back on my throttle and get lower than 2000rpm. what that does is cut out that float. so it's all up to the person flying the thing as for what is really going to happen on a short landing. I don't use flaps either. I know, people have tried to argue with me on that one. I love the light stick on landing with my electric trim in the back. I can't complain about my landings or take offs. I'm also not out to do stol competitions, just go out and have as much fun as I can. I also have 27.5 tires and spring gear and cruise at 115mph.

Do you have a picture? Sounds like a nice bird!



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