Newby --- considering a long neglected model 4 looking for opinions

[mookybird]

Hi, and thank you for any opinion your willing to put out there. I'm well aware of search functions and sticky's and while I've made a sincere effort I'm just looking for raw opinions at this point and a little short on time as I leave town tomorrow for a short while.
I'm mid 60's retiring 6ft 2 203lbs have a long dormant private pilot, owned a Luscombe 800 plus hours and a Varieze 200plus hours really enjoyed the small rebuild projects, flying and owning both.
The airplane is a Model 4 serial number 1440's placard says 1000 gross..two plastic wing tanks, look to be around 5-6 gallons and look in ok condition...plane sat for around 20 years, part of the time outside, looks to be light surface rust on the tubes and might need some tubing replacement around the tail wheel, nothing showing that's obvious because of the fabric. time on airframe and engine are unknown, it shows no damage beyond time and weather, seems solid and straight and has the original log and some paperwork. The 582 greyhead was gone through by a Rotax shop a few years ago and has been unused in dry storage since.
The wings are stripped and ready for recover, all of the parts and pieces, a-n hardware are present, the cowl's, seat pan etc. are in excellent condition and it appears to be well built plane that fell on hard times.

I want to buy it and restore and fly it locally, I'm ok with the 582 my flying is all solo and on my certified plane I flew as if the mill might shut down at any time...the questions are...if down the road I want to put a four stroke on it and extend my area a bit can that be reasonably accomplished or is the airframe too limited in weight carrying capacity to make it work.

I understand that if that's what I want to do I would probably be ahead to buy a ready to go airplane with the 100 horse...facing retirement, longish wet winters here in the PNW..I'm as much looking for the project as I am the aircraft. I'd like to recover it and fly it as is, and then if I'm enjoying the flying enough maybe the following winter do an engine conversion...Thanks again and I promise to make a hearty effort to use the search function in the future.

[avidflyer]

First thing I would do is measure the height of the rudder. The Kitfox 4 1200 classic should measure 54" from bottom to top of rudder. The earlier 1050 gross weight Kitfox 4 is about 9" less. That will tell you what your gross weight should be. I have a Kitfox 4 1200 with an 80 HP 912 in it that I completely rebuilt and it's a fun airplane. Kitfox wings are fairly easy to recover, no rounded ends to fight with. I'm actually doing a set of them right now. Just sprayed the poly brush on this evening. If the price is right, and the FAA paper work is in order, it may be a good one to grab. There are more 912 engines out there all the time, so maybe plan to go that route right off the bat. JImChuk

[mookybird]

Thank you, it appears to be the early model 4 with the smaller rudder... since it's going to be a complete teardown, refurb and recover and during that process I will probably answer many of the questions I have now, I'm just hoping for something down the line of ... if your looking towards a 912 in the future your going to want to ...... are there better alternatives to the plastic wing tanks that would make sense to install prior to recover? If I convert the engine do I need to increase the size vertical stabilizer or can the rudder itself just be made a little larger? Is the horizontal stabilizer sufficient as is ?...

Just trying to get a sense of changes that would make sense before a recover...the current owner flew it under prior ownership and said it flew well, straight and true and was a lot of fun to fly...he bought it in it's current condition planning a restoration and his health situation changed...as it can for folks in my age range. He also is the one who had the motor torn down and checked out.

Because it's wired..plumbed and has a good 582 and matching prop along with all of the hardware, it seems sensible to me to refurb - recover and fly it...not having owned or flown an aircraft for a couple of decades I'd like to do that before commiting to the money and changes needed to repower...but that's my thoughts based on no experience or knowledge about the world of Kitfox's.

I respect experience and knowledge, even if they come with strong preferences...so if I need to get different fuel tanks or landing gear or cover with this versus that..,. I'm an open book. Thanks again Avidflyer for the response

[MikeMarkota]

I have kitfox 4 serial #1442 which is a 1050 gw. I also have a 582 in it which I have nearly 300 hrs behind - I like the engine. It's simple, cheap and easy to maintain, just thirsty (6.4 gph at 76 mph/6000 rpm and I cruise 99% of the time around 500-1000' AGL) and with only one wing tank I have a total of 1h48m of fuel on board with no reserve. So cross countries are pretty annoying having to plan for fuel - and hope its available. The other thing I don't like is how underpowered it feels when its over 80*F outside and I'm not flying solo. I'm 5'11 and 215 lbs for reference. With my wife (115lbs) on a hot high density altitude day it's still OK but another guy like me and youre looking at 300 fpm climb.

I bought a 670 engine to send to Rotax Rick to bump it up from 65 to 90+ hp but I changed gears and am going with a used higher time 912 ULS now. I want the increase in cruise speed the torque from a 912 gives me, the reduced fuel burn, and obviously the climb performance. What really sealed the deal is my wife preferring to drive to a beach that was ~5 hrs away vs 1.5 hr flight because of a prior experience when we were unable to get fuel and were stuck at a crappy little airport in the sun instead of being at the beach. The difference in cruise speed and fuel burn would have made that a non-event if I had the 912 vs the 582.

Long story short if your mission is buzzing around solo around the area the 582 will be great. Fly it and enjoy it! If the trips are longer than 100-150 miles away youre gonna start wishing you had the 912 in it. The 4 with a 1050 gw can handle the 912 no problem, even the model 3 has factory support for the 912. What i'd do is fly it with the 582 and keep your eyes peeled for a 912 and anyway FWF parts for a deal and accumulate them as you fly off the 300 hrs on the 582.

[mookybird]

Thank you Mike for the additional information...I've enough information now to make the decision to go forward with the purchase...your story brought back some memorable experiences of being weathered in on various cross country jaunts, I've had some epic ones as well but fortunately solo. If she hops in at all it would just be for a ride around the pattern maybe go look at the house 4 miles from the runway.

I really appreciate both of you taking the time to reply...the 4 that I'm purchasing was built with the thought of replicating a production aircraft, it has a panel stock full of switches, steam gauges, lights and strobes. I suspect the tech on all of that has changed considerably and I have time to research and sort out my preferences...my initial impulse is to build a stripped down light version. In my early days I worked 21 days on and 21 off on the north slope and spent a lot of the summer time flying around the west in the 65hp Luscombe...sleeping in a tent in fields, ag strips or wherever it seemed big enough to get it back in the air...great memories.