Raven (kitfox 2/3 clone) restoration

[knuckled62]

I just measured from the top of the 582 head to the top of the firewall on my KF2 is 5ish inches.

I will take a measurement this weekend and include a side view picture of engine with cowl off.

when i compared the model 4 with 582 engine installed it was much lower,
my spark plug wires almost touch top of cowl.

see picture below of model 4 engine

[knuckled62]

A view from the other side.

Your engine looks like it is much further from firewall, my rear mounted starter actually protrudes through firewall a good amount.
What if the distance from the back case where the starter attaches to the firewall.
If you run a straight edge long the top of cylinder head to firewall, how much lower is it from top of firewall.

thanks

[TY2068]

Has anyone been in contact with Dave F recently ? He's been flying below the radar lately. I've known Dave for a good while now. I'll agree a bit rowdy and unconventional but a pretty darn knowledgeable guy. He could probably show a few here a thing or two about Kitfox flying. If anyone can speak on behalf of the Raven I'm sure he can. I'm not 110% positive but I think the guy who used the Avid-Kitfox as a template for the Raven is gone now.

My name is Shannon. Just another lurker out for info at this point Gotta start somewhere huh ! I suppose this is an introduction. I flew my 98 Kitfox IV 1200 Greyhead 582 C IVO 72" Medium GA 2-Blade down in Louisiana for the first time 9-4-15. Look it up on YT if you like. Thanks to Av8rSed for the input-advice beforehand.

[av8rps]

I must say that i don't agree with people ripping of other people designs, and i certainly did not go out looking for this particular plane i am very happy that i found such a copy of two of the best built kit planes out there.

This particular one (Snip, snip...) thanks

I'm glad you didn't take my comments wrong, as my only intent in explaining all that was to educate the group about the Raven's background.

I completely agree that as a blend of an Avid and Kitfox it will be a marvelous airplane. One of my friends put together an airplane from a bunch of different Avid and Kitfox parts a few years back, and because he couldn't decide what to actually call it he just affectionately referred to it as "The *******" .

The cowl on your Raven looks like one a guy in Washington state was selling years ago for Avid Flyers. His goal at that time was to offer a cowl for the Avid Flyers that would provide that cute faux radial engine look of the Kitfox that was extremely popular at the time, while also being able to utilize a separate boot cowl so it could be sealed up better against weather.

A round Kitfox cowl won't work on an Avid Flyer because the engine mount sits much higher on the fuselage than the Kitfox. Dean Wilson designed the Avid to have a thrust line as high as possible not only to get the most efficient use of the prop blast while still allowing the pilot to see over the cowl, but more importantly so he could run a longer prop while still having lots of ground clearance. That's why if you look at a 2 stroke powered Avid Flyer you will notice that the engine sits in the mount upside down (2 strokes don't care if they run upside down) with the gearbox and prop shaft positioned high above the upside down engine, pretty much even with the top of the instrument panel (unlike the Kitfox where even though it has a much higher cowl that is hard to see over, the prop thrustline is much lower)

I'm not certain, but I recall that the original Raven plans included mounting the engine right side up like was in the Kitfox. So if the cowl was the one from the guy in Washington, something probably had to be modified to make everything fit on your airplane. So I'm speculating that the dimensions on your engine mount placement is not going to be the same as either the Avid or a Kitfox. But I will admit I'm relying on memory for most of this, and that was all a long time ago.

Paul

[knuckled62]

Hi Paul,

If i wanted to replace cowl with something that won't cause as much drag from the oversized opening in the front, what cowl do you think would fit it better?
Would an early avid cowl be closer to fitting a raven?
I might also consider reworking this cowl, but it would need a huge amount of repairs and mods.

thanks

Denis

[knuckled62]

Hi have taken a few measurements of engine install and some pictures.
Top of cylinder head to top of firewall is 4 1/4 "
Back of starter cover plate to firewall if 1 3/8"
See attached pictures and let me know what you think about lowering engine P1050533.jpg

P1050534.jpg

P1050535.jpg

P1050536.jpg

P1050442.jpgslightly or if you think it is fine the way it is.

[knuckled62]

Ran into another major issue during reassembly of control systems.
I found that all push rods for flaps, ailerons,and elevator were bent, i made all new ones than found out that the seat could not be installed because it hit them.
I though about raising seat to allow space, but there would not be enough headroom even for my average 5"8" height.
Is this a common problem for early kit fox's, do they just fly with curved/bent push rods?
I have a couple of options, widen seat tunnel to give more room, add additional pivot points in push rod to lower operating position, and change attachment point on control tube to a lower position and adjust the elevator push rod attachment by the same Percentage to keep travel and stick forces the same.
Any suggestions and pictures would be appreciated.

thanks

Denis

[Esser]

On my model 7 the first push rod is manufactured to be bent and clear the seat. I imagine yours would be similar.

[knuckled62]

On my model 7 the first push rod is manufactured to be bent and clear the seat. I imagine yours would be similar.

Which push rod, flaps, elevator, or aileron?

Denis

[Av8r_Sed]

Yes, it's common to bend them to clear the seat. Seems wrong at first but causes no operational problems.