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Thread: Oratex Fabric Covering Revisited

  1. #21

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    Default Re: Oratex Fabric Covering Revisited

    I was told by betteraircraftfabric.com that the Oratex 6000 is $76.85 per square yard and the Oratex 600 is $53.80 per square yard. It should be noted that that is square yard vice linear yard in case you want to compare with ceconite or Polly. I am just wondering if a Kitfox SS7 can be covered with 600 vice 6000. According to their website any LSA can be covered with 600.

  2. #22
    Senior Member jrevens's Avatar
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    Default Re: Oratex Fabric Covering Revisited

    Hi bushfly,
    The Oratex 600 is approved for aircraft with a MTOW of 1323# (600 Kg). The 6000 goes clear up to 13,228# (6000 Kg). The 600 can probably be compared to the light PolyFiber fabric. I think that a SS7 covered with 600 would be marginal. The airframe is designed for 1550# gross, & you would be limiting yourself if you ever wanted to increase your weight to that limit (taking it out of the LSA category). That would be my concern. The 6000 is tougher, while still being considerably lighter than a conventionally finished/painted covering.
    John Evens
    Arvada, CO
    Kitfox SS7 N27JE
    EAA Lifetime
    Chap. 43 honorary Lifetime

  3. #23

    Default Re: Oratex Fabric Covering Revisited

    Quote Originally Posted by snowpaw View Post
    Hi TeamKitfox members,
    I just recently read an interesting article in the January 2014 issue of EAA Experimenter (see link) about a STOL-plane covered with Oratex that I thought I shoul share with you all.

    http://experimenter.epubxp.com/i/247918

    The builder/pilot wanted to reduce the weight and used Oratex and he was very positive about using it again.
    Hi All.. Lil' Cub burned December 17th 2013 and we started the re-build mid January 2014. After three months of pretty intense work (for my wife and I), retired grandparents, we have a new Lil' Cub and she flies better than ever.

    One interesting thing we can report is the fabric was almost welded to the fuselage (after the fire).. it took vice grips and wire brushes to get the old stuff off.

    We had flown a winter in Arizona (stored outside) and the summer in Alaska.. about 470 hours flying time before the burn and everything was holding together well.
    The first time we rushed the process and completed the (fabric) on the entire Cub in 4 LONG days! This time more time was spent but it still is much faster/cleaner than anything out there. My wife has never been an aircraft buff but she likes to be involved in my projects.. she would always run the other way when it came time for fabric. This stuff is clean and with no stink she took over on the second build.. the fabric was hers all the way!

    It's easy to apply however it stands much more heat than other processes, for me it was difficult to believe it and apply the required heat. It lays down smooth and unlike the other glues.. when a seam is re-heated the glue turns liquid again between the layers and gets even smoother the second pass!

    Before I rattle on too much.. we don't sell the stuff and are not associated with ABetterFabric (Lars) but when I like something.. I like to rave a bit.

    Oratex allows us to still feel productive without the health dangers.. growing up in a body shop we ingested enough bad stuff.

    In closing we figured we saved someplace between 20 and 25 pounds on our Experimental Cub build.. if you can find something to replace with Carbon or Titanium it generally costs between $500 and $1000 per loss of pounds. Its like getting a $10K-$20K check when doing the fabric!! We all want performance and know weight to HP is where it's at.

    If you want more 'biased' independent report give a call.
    Thankz for listening,

    frank (Lil'Cub)
    907-841-0298

  4. #24
    Senior Member HighWing's Avatar
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    Default Re: Oratex Fabric Covering Revisited

    For what it's worth.

    I talked to a buddy last week and he is in the process of covering the wings of a friend's Rans S-7 with Oratex. He has built and covered Three or four Kitfoxes, two Rans S-7s and now this Rans. He recently worked in a restoration shop that does Cubs - he was the fabric guy.

    He is experienced with Polyfiber and Stewart Systems.

    His take on Oratex:

    Four days - no way! That is the first thing he mentioned. They have more than four days on just the S-7 wings.
    Translucent - You can see the gray of the underlying structure through it.
    Difficult to work with - have to glue fabric panels together.
    Difficult to smooth - Permanent wrinkles.
    Does he like the result - No. Does his friend the S-7 owner like the result - No.
    Is it expensive - Yes. He mentioned don't forget the cost of the adhesive

    Consider that this is one level second hand, but if anyone has specific questions, drop a PM and I will pass the questions on or hopefully get his permission to release his contact info.
    Lowell Fitt
    Goodyear, AZ


    My You Tube Channel

  5. #25

    Default Re: Oratex Fabric Covering Revisited

    Quote Originally Posted by HighWing View Post
    For what it's worth.

    I talked to a buddy last week and he is in the process of covering the wings of a friend's Rans S-7 with Oratex.
    Well.. where to start. First I apologize for going against a long term user of the site.. I am a lurker and have no right and only appeared because my wife and I.. like the stuff.

    1- Start day we completed the first wing and started the second.
    http://www.alarmspro.com/Fabric/4.png

    Completion AFTER the DAR had signed off the build.
    http://www.alarmspro.com/Fabric/5.png

    PLEASE NOTE THESE PICTURES ARE FROM A WEB CAM WITH DATE/TIME.

    2- Translucent - He got me there.. it looks light. This is a photo with low angle Alaska sun shining directly on the side.. note the tail.
    http://www.alarmspro.com/Fabric/2.JPG

    3- Difficult to work with.. well it takes about 30 minutes to place glue on one wing.. BOTH the ribs and fabric. If you do it light the dry time is about 3 hours. Now your ready to tack in place with an iron and go to town.

    4- Difficult to smooth- Hmm I'll rely on pictures of my wife doing the tail.. takes care but sure nice once complete. (Not a ripple)
    http://www.alarmspro.com/Fabric/6.JPG

    The thing is.. if you don't get it smooth at first you can do it again and it only gets better.

    Wing:
    http://www.alarmspro.com/Fabric/1.JPG
    http://www.alarmspro.com/Fabric/7.JPG

    5- Does he like the result (No) - My wife has only helped on one other fabric job but the result was better than most.

    6- Expensive- I guess so.. I'll sure do it again based on the weight $avings.
    Just having my wife out there made the cost seem slight.

    I can easily see why an ol' timer that already has a system worked out with paint booth, guns, compressor and fresh air supply might not want to venture into Oratex however I believe it is good for the rest. When I painted (two part) every day I thought I was superman.. no longer.

    Sorry for infesting the list with chatter, again I just like the stuff. If we can help with any specific questions please call or PM.

    Over and Out
    frank
    907-841-0298

  6. #26
    Senior Member jrevens's Avatar
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    Default Re: Oratex Fabric Covering Revisited

    I talked on the phone with a fella' named Roger Peterson in Sweeney, Texas who's covered several Super Cubs with Oratex. He loves it, & said he wouldn't ever use anything else again. He has videos on the net detailing a lot of his experience with it.

    I also talked to Randy at RANS... they are doing some covering with it now. They are differing from the recommended installation process, in that they are sewing up "envelopes" in order to speed up the production process and get a good fit around certain kinds of curves. I don't know how successfully that is working for them, but getting a good, tight, definitely wrinkle-free job doesn't seem to be particularly difficult at all. It requires installing the fabric as tight as possible to begin with, as the shrink percentage is a little less than PolyFiber for instance. There is much less worry about deforming structure, but the tautness seems great. The necessary skills/techniques are a little different than PolyFiber. Paint can cover a "multitude of sins", & if you're looking for an Oshkosh award-winning look, you probably want to paint. If you're looking for the lightest, strongest, fastest installation and completely safe & non-toxic it's worth a look.

    I know a guy in South Dakota covering a Cub. They've covered aircraft as big as one of the Antonov AN-2 biplanes with it.

    Just Aircraft has also been using some of it, I've been told.

    I don't know if Frank (Little Cub) is using the 600 or 6000 material, but I would imagine the slight translucence is less with the thicker 6000. I don't mind that at all on the few examples I've seen.

    FWIW.
    John Evens
    Arvada, CO
    Kitfox SS7 N27JE
    EAA Lifetime
    Chap. 43 honorary Lifetime

  7. #27
    Senior Member colospace's Avatar
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    Default Re: Oratex Fabric Covering Revisited

    Frank,
    Never mind the "lurker" deal, I appreciate your input as I too am considering Oratex. I was put-off by the Kitfox that was being covered at Oshkosh last year and the price, but the weight and time savings are certainly appealing. Appears your wife did a nice looking job. I'm looking forward to seeing how it works out for John.
    - Gary
    S7 SuperSport Tri-gear
    w/Rotax 912, Oratex, Dynon

  8. #28
    Senior Member jrevens's Avatar
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    Default Re: Oratex Fabric Covering Revisited

    OK, so I confess... I received my shipment of Oratex stuff yesterday. I'm sure there are those on this list who will shake their heads, but I think I'm going to do fine with it. A lot of soul-searching & research the last couple of years, & I finally jumped in. After seeing it at OSH a couple of times, & talking to several users, then playing with the sample kit I got, I made up my mind. Invested in a good digital heat gun. You still need a good iron also (digital is good). A heat gun is highly discouraged with PolyFiber, but works beautifully with Oratex. Oratex doesn't start to loosen, unlike PolyFiber, when you heat it above a certain point. It shrinks & is fine right up to the point where it is melted & destroyed - I believe about 485 deg. F. The "hot melt" glue is neat. Brush it on, let it dry, then it is melted with heat (100 deg. C, 212 deg. F) & pressure from the iron (or heat gun & felt pad) to stick things together, which also starts a chemical reaction. This causes the bond to strengthen, & the glue will not melt again until a much higher temperature. I'll try to post some pictures as the project progresses.
    John Evens
    Arvada, CO
    Kitfox SS7 N27JE
    EAA Lifetime
    Chap. 43 honorary Lifetime

  9. #29

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    Default Re: Oratex Fabric Covering Revisited

    How much did it cost you in materials for the kitfox and how many yards did you get?

  10. #30
    Senior Member cap01's Avatar
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    Default Re: Oratex Fabric Covering Revisited

    john, what iron did you get?
    chuck
    kitfox IV 1050
    912ul warpdrive
    flying B , yelm, wa

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