Kitfox Aircraft Stick and Rudder Stein Air Grove Aircraft TCW Technologies Dynon Avionics AeroLED MGL Avionics Leading Edge Airfoils Desser EarthX Batteries Garmin G3X Touch
Page 3 of 3 FirstFirst 123
Results 21 to 30 of 30

Thread: Pilots bill of rights

  1. #21
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    Tahoe
    Posts
    336

    Default Re: Pilots bill of rights

    Wow WW, wow. I sure hope readers here take a few minutes to go read the new law for themselves.

    https://www.congress.gov/bill/114th-...-bill/571/text

    (Pay paticular attention to Section 2, item 6 where the doctor checks off that he is treating the patient for anything he finds. That, to me, says "oops, I found something but I can check box 6 because I am treating you for it." It does not say cured, it says being treated. As you read the law, notice how many times it says "aircraft and motor vehicle" when referring to the standards.) I have AFIB. I've had it since in my 40's. I take a medication allowed by the FAA so I am being treated for the condition. Under my 3rd class, I have to take an annual treadmill, nuclear med scan, and send a huge pile of paper to the FAA every year. Too expensive to continue. Now, my cardiologist will simply check box 6 and sign that I am fit for "aircraft and vehicle operation".

    WW,
    I won't bother citing Sport pilot rules regarding medications and grounding yourself. You can go read it for your own enlightenment:

    https://www.faa.gov/licenses_certifi...ots/response4/

    http://flightphysical.com/pilot/FAR-61-53-Illness.htm

    You are implying in your post that a sport pilot has a more lenient set of medical health standards than other classes of pilotage. Just because you can get away with it doesn't make it right. Your whole argument about being investigated after an incident exists today for ALL pilots. The required biannual online free course will go a long way to squash these errors of interpretation of the current rules. Some here surely need to crack the books once in awhile.

    I want to see our hobby come back to life and any relief is a positive step. I think thousands of pilots that dropped out since 2006 will start flying cheap Cessnas again. IMHO, there is a group of pilots that are not builders and cannot afford a LSA plane. There is a huge supply of $20,000 to $30,000 aircraft that will get back in the air. I am a fan of all flying, sport pilot or otherwise.

    "This has just removed the AME and the requirement of send a copy to the FAA." Which is HUGE! You must be kidding on this one. (See my situation above)

    The EAA and AOPA should be thanked for their years of effort to get this passed.

  2. #22
    Senior Member jmodguy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2014
    Location
    Carmel, IN
    Posts
    744

    Default Re: Pilots bill of rights

    I have read it before and thanks for the link. The following comments are not meant to be antagonistic - they are how I am reading the "rules". If I am misinterpreting them please elaborate! I have been wrong every now and then :-D

    Section 2.a.7 states 48 months. If you fall outside 48 months you are grounded. There is no language staying this period for a second opinion.
    Section 2.b.C.i.IX. Never had an anal exam by my AME...
    Section 2.b.C.i.XIV - scars and tattoos? really??
    Section 2.b.C.i.XVII - really??? Next thing you know you will be on the no fly list
    Section 2.b.C.i.XXII - Here's the catch all.
    Section 2.b.C.iv
    “I certify that I discussed all items on this checklist with the individual during my examination, discussed any medications the individual is taking that could interfere with their ability to safely operate an aircraft or motor vehicle, and performed an examination that included all of the items on this checklist. I certify that I am not aware of any medical condition that, as presently treated, could interfere with the individual’s ability to safely operate an aircraft.”
    Aircraft OR motor vehicle... If the doc fails you - legally you cannot drive a motor vehicle, let alone fly your airplane. Any lawyers out there for clarification??
    Section 2.b.C.v - This is where the doc puts his credentials on the line... Some will, some won't.
    This is MANDATED to be kept in your pilots logbook along with the 2 year online training. Without these records YOU ARE GROUNDED.
    Section 2.d - your PBOR is now tied to your driving record - by law.
    Section 2.e.3 This could mean anything. A shrink with an "opinion" can basically deny your PBOR. You are done flying.
    I really don't see anything good in this "legislation". Yeah you don't HAVE to see an AME and the results aren't reported to the FAA, but the schedule is still there. The legal requirement for an exam is STILL there. Anything derogatory WILL ground you.
    my .02.
    Again - If I am misunderstanding any of this please help me understand the language.
    Jeff
    KF 5
    340KF

  3. #23
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    MN
    Posts
    469

    Default Re: Pilots bill of rights

    jmodguy,
    THANK YOU! Thank you! Thank You! You understand what I was trying to convey. I am not an attorney, nor do I play one on TV but the language of this is interpreted by my 3rd grade education the same as you are stating.



    Tahoetim,

    I probably didn't compose my response as well as could have been done (I was trying to respond via my phone). I was only trying to get the point across that this new legislation is not a 'cure-all'. There are way too many guys out there that seem to think that they are all of a sudden golden and can jump out of their LSA's and into bigger iron. For some, maybe this is possible, but those that have never gotten a medical or let it lapse (10+ years ago) will still need to pass a one time physical. These guys are still under the same constraints (basically) as there were before this was passed.


    All, have to excuse my not too well written response as I just got to Florida after a 3 day drive. M-I-L in the hospital for a heart attack. I mean no ill will and only want people to inform themselves before they get too excited over this legislation.

  4. #24
    gregsgt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    Binghamton, NY
    Posts
    101

    Default Re: Pilots bill of rights

    This new legislation fits me perfectly. On to private pilot for me. Before I spent more on tests and inconveniences for my special issuance (which even my doctor said was stupid) than I did on flying which is what forced me into LSA. This has actually gotten me thinking about selling my plane and moving up into something that will fit my usage better. I'm thrilled.

  5. #25
    Senior Member Slyfox's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    felts field, spokane
    Posts
    1,327

    Default Re: Pilots bill of rights

    I have no medical conditions. I go in every 2 years for the dreaded class 3. I have to still do one in September. The problem I have been seeing lately is all the AME's are retiring. My latest one retired last year. now in the whole area I think there is 2. there is 500,000 or more people in my area. just 2. one in cda and one here in Spokane. I am excited that my doc will be able to give me the paperwork in the future and it will be 4 years. nice. me happy. I like it.
    steve
    slyfox
    model IV 1200-flying
    912uls
    IVO medium in-flight
    RV7A-flying
    IO-360
    constant speed prop

  6. #26
    Senior Member Dave S's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    St Paul, MN
    Posts
    1,833

    Default Re: Pilots bill of rights

    Slyfox,

    I am pretty much in the same position you are; and, you bring up an interesting additional point. So far in my short aviation career, I have outlived two AMEs, had four more retire consecutively since then; and, they are getting to be an endangered species up here as near as I can tell. The fact that the PBOR takes effect in one year is not going to increase the number of AMEs available, nor decrease the distance one would have to drive to get to one. My current AME is excellent, up to date on the practice of medicine and aviation; however, the fact that he had his cataracts fixed three years befor I did tells me retirement isn't that far out for him either.

    BTW - if anyone out there is feeling any anxiety about cataract surgery.....don't....The procedures are really good now. Never having had anyone come at me with sharp instruments for medical purposes before, I was a little concerned about it; however, they have some really good "I don't give a crap juice" they give you so you never notice and the outcome was fantastic......born with 20/400 distance vision which progressed to 20/200 as I achieved a degree of "chronological superiority" (we tend to get less near sighted with age) and after the surgery I ended up 20/20 distance vision in both eyes without glasses. Never been able to see very far without glasses before. The paperwork is quite minor.
    Dave S
    Kitfox 7 Trigear (Flying since 2009)
    912ULS Warp Drive

    St Paul, MN

  7. #27
    Senior Member jrevens's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Arvada, CO
    Posts
    2,146

    Default Re: Pilots bill of rights

    I like it too. I think that there are many positives. My only concern is that the wording on the form to be signed by your doctor is non-threatening enough so that doctors and their insurance companies are not scared off because of liability concerns. I'm with gregsgt, Slyfox & Dave.
    John Evens
    Arvada, CO
    Kitfox SS7 N27JE
    EAA Lifetime
    Chap. 43 honorary Lifetime

  8. #28
    Senior Member jtpitkin06's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Greenville, TX
    Posts
    640

    Default Re: Pilots bill of rights

    For me, I welcome the 3rd class reform.

    My last two years with the airline 2006 to 2008 I flew with a first class special issuance. The FAA determined I was healthy enough to captain a wide body across oceans at night. The union picked up the tab for the advocates and medical advisory service every six months. All was well.

    When I retired I had to foot the bill myself. Insurance doesn't think it is medically necessary or job related to take the FAA testing because I'm retired. So the expenses are not fully covered. Every year I get to do a stress echo treadmill EKG and every other year I get a heavy dose of radiation for the radio nuclide stress test. I just love the nausea and having my hair fall out. I think I'll vacation in Chernoble. Cost... About $3600 a year to get a third class medical. You also get a restriction that the certificate is not good for any class after one year.

    I never did figure out what the treadmill was supposed to prove. I do a lot of exercise on a treadmill at home. I have it on the maximum angle and the speed is as fast as my stubby little legs can pedal. When doing the FAA test I can go to Bruce Protocol level four in 12 minutes and my heart rate is still below 100. My biggest problem is hitting the required maximal heart rate before my legs give out in level five. A sign above the machine at the cardiologist office reads, "The treadmill always wins."

    Then I get to submit lab reports, blood tests, take a regular FAA physical with yet another EKG, a CD of pictures from my echo cardiogram and reams of paper with supporting documents. All for what??? I don't normally run at full speed in the cockpit.

    The reform means to me that I have taken my last FAA run-my-arse-off treadmill test and the $3600 goes into my fuel fund.

    My doctors have no problem giving a physical and signing the checklist. They do it all the time for employers certifying a patient may return to work. They did it for me when I went back to work after the chest crack. No problem.

    I welcome the reform and look forward to seeing thousands of pilots returning to the air. The only negative I see is the coming shortage of used legacy airplanes under 6000 pounds.

    Thanks to all that wrote to their congressional reps and senators to get this thing passed.

    Incidentally, I took another special issuance FAA physical on March 3, 2016. I'm still waiting for FAA approval as of July 18, 2016. That's right... Four months grounded while the FAA looks at yet another pile of paper.

    John Pitkin

  9. #29
    Agfoxflyer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Woodstock, Georgia
    Posts
    159

    Default Re: Pilots bill of rights

    I renewed my 3rd Class medical about 9 months ago. My AME commented you just got you last 3rd class medical. He said they will pass the legislation. He said, and I have wondered, the defining thing will be what insurance companies will allow. I will most assuredly will be able to fly the Kitfox, but can I fly my brothers RV-10 with a constant seed prop, with 3 passengers with insurance approval with out a current 3rd class. I could see insurance companies having an issue with a pilot flying a 6 place, 250 knots without a current 3rd class.
    David E.
    Woodstock, Georgia
    N97DE S5 TD Flying

    N97KE RV-9A Sold
    N96KE RV10 Sold
    Rans S21 Helping Brother Build (Selling)
    Vans RV-14A (On Order)

  10. #30
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    Tahoe
    Posts
    336

    Default Re: Pilots bill of rights

    look at it from the insurance side

    Basically you could say the law redefines the definition of a light sport plane since with little more than a drivers license I can fly heavier larger aircraft. Is that better or worse than a small homebuilt experimental plane? Don't know.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •