amphib zenair floats

Hello,
Looking for some information from guys with their plane on floats. I have a kitfox iv 1050 with a 912s and a 70" warp drive prop. I am thinking about getting zenair 1450 amphib floats for the plane. A few things I would like to get feed back on. Do these floats work well on a grass strip? How long to get off the water at sea level(also higher elevations say up to 5000'). What ballpark cruise would I get (honest 103 mph at 5000 rpm now on 26" airstreaks). What kind of climb would you see (now about 1200-1300 ft/min on wheels).
Basically I am looking to find out what kind of performance I would see if the plane was on zenair floats of this type.

Thanks
Shawn

Shawn,

The 1450 is too big for your kitfox 4. You will get poor performance when a float is too large. Too much drag in the air and water, and excess weight you dont need to carry around.

I fly a 912ul m4 kitfox 1200 on aerocets 1100 amphibs, which are a bit small (would work best for aircraft that weigh less than 575 lbs when on wheels - fwiw). I have a set of cz 1200 amphibs (basically an improved zenair) that i have about 30 hours of experience with on a Rans S7 with a 912. They worked really well up to 1500 lbs, but most of the Rans guys are preferring 1300 size now as even though the 1200 works well, as the newer Rans models get heavier, the 1300 gives them just a little extra buoyancy. But the cz 1300 amphibs are very hard to find, and expensive when you do (and also too large for your m4).

The cz 1200 amphib is a nice float that is light and has a gear that can handle grass just fine. And for a m4 youd still be slightly overfloated, but they would work much better than the 1450s, or the 1100 series aerocet for what you want to do. I would say the cz 1200 amphib would be the best float you could put on a model 4 kitfox, but yet would work well on newer kitfoxes as long as they were 912 powered (read as light).

Expect to lose about 300 fpm in climb and about the same cruise loss as your big tires. A kitfox really makes an exceptional seaplane, but you have to get the right float for the airplane.

I bought my cz1200s for my Highlander, but have since bought a set of 1300s, so if youre interested let me know as im going to list them on barnstormers real soon. Id love to see them go to a fellow kitfoxer. They are better than new, being painted silver with clearcoat imron, and unlike the zenairs, these use bucked/solid rivets (vs pop rivets) and have strengthend spreader bars and nosewheel forks (known problems with zenairs). $15,000 and available now, no wait for factory to build. Located in central wisconsin.

Hi Paul,
I have a Kitfox mod 4 1050 w/912 UL 80 HP that I have been thinking of going with amphib floats for some time. The plane was built fairly lightly (605 lbs) with the original landing gear. If I understand your post you would recommend the cz 12OO float, is that correct? I was also looking to upgrade the liftstrut and lower carrythru to allow 1200 lb GW.
In as much as the cz 1200 floats are hard to find, can you suggest other suitable floats?
Thanks, appreciate your posts.
Mark

Not having flown a KF yet on floats have you considered the Full Lotus Floats? They may not be the 'sportiest' looking floats, but seem quite durable. There are several videos on youtube of KF's on floats. Lots with Full Lotus floats.
I have a set of FL 1260's (amphibs) that I bought to put on my RANS S7 but after buying an unfinished KF IV I may end up putting them on it instead. I will have to find rigging for the KF since these floats have the RANS S7 rigging. All this is still up in the air since the plane was purchased for my son and he has yet to decide if he wants it or not. I sure like th eidea of being able to fold the wings, load it on a trailer and haul it around the country, especially with floats.

Yes, I have considered the FL floats. Nothing wrong with them except the amphibs look a little clunkey and may slow the plane a bit more. (I see that they have recently come out with the wheel in a well that looks much better, but I think they are about 250 lbs). I know of kitfox folks that have FL straight floats them and like them, but I have not flown in one yet. I have not counted them out yet.
Thanks for the thoughts.
Mark

I looked at the new style amphibs while at Oshkosh and I agree, they are heavy. They do look more 'streamlined' but a lot of weight.

IHi Mark,

I'm sorry to say that I cannot recommend another amphib float for your model 4 at this time. It seems everyone is going to the 1450 to 1500 size floats which are needed on the bigger and heavier LSA's, but much too large for a model 4. Or there are the other floats (like the Aerocet 1100) that are just a bit too small for your plane. And then the other few remaining possible choices left of the 1200 size floats are just plain junk (in my opinion). That's why I recommend the CZ 1200 amphibs. They kind of do it all; not too big, not too small, not too heavy, a good durable hydraulic gear, and a well proven float on a lot of airplanes over the years. But yes, they are getting hard to find. (Not a sales pitch, but since I've not been trying too hard to sell my extra set, mine are still available if you are interested).

I've learned from 3 decades of flying floats on planes like these that having the right float is just as important as having the right plane. A 912 Kitfox 4 makes a fantastic amphib float plane, so you've got that part covered for sure. All you need now is that right float. So when you see the right float for your plane don't hesitate on buying them, as it seems when you are needing them there are never any to buy. (FWIW - That's how I ended up with two great sets of floats. But I'm glad I was able to get them when I did as I currently know of none for sale if I needed them :)).

So whether you were to buy mine or you found another set of cz 1200's somewhere else, just make sure to jump on the opportunity if it arises. It is pretty much the perfect float for your plane.

Hi Paul,
Thanks for getting back to me. Perhaps you can relieve some confusion on my part. Aren't the cz floats a Zenair design, and I see that Zenair has 1150# amphib and 1450 amphib kits.
Is the 1150 a different design compared to the CZ 1200? I read somewhere that the nose wheel was upgraded from the original.
Are CZ floats still being made and available overseas? (I have an email inquiry sent out)
Mark

Yes, the czech 1200 amphib is essentially a made-over Zenair 1150. But if you parked the zenair next to the czech float you would see a huge difference between the two. The czechs really did a nice job with build quality and strengthened the weak areas of the zenair. I did hear zenair made some of the same improvements to their float since, but can't confirm that.

Overall the zenair float is a great design, and I have recommended it to many over the years. But most people don't have the time or patience to build a set of amphib floats (most say it's worse than building the airplane), and some that bought the assembled zenair floats have complained about poor workmanship so I stopped suggesting that option. But it certainly is an option. Also, I'm not sure if zenair changed their float dimensions on their 1150 to match the cz 1200 (aka 1250's), but the czechs improved forward bouyancy on their original adaptation of the zenair 1150, as the Rans S7 crowd felt the 1150 needed more buoyancy, especially forward. So it is my belief the cz 1200 has more buoyancy than the zenair 1150.

The Cz float company is no longer in business, but it is my understanding one of the guys that built floats for them is advertising floats being available via the internet. If you can find a way to deal with the hassles of overseas purchasing and container shipping of a product you can't see or touch, it might be a good deal? I'm a guy that likes to see and touch, and take my purchase home with me when I hand the money over, so I've never considered the overseas purchase option. Not to say there's anything wrong with an overseas purchase or the guy building the floats. But there's a little history with the previous importer of those floats that would make me more than leary...

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Originally Posted by mark donahue

Hi Paul,
Thanks for getting back to me. Perhaps you can relieve some confusion on my part. Aren't the cz floats a Zenair design, and I see that Zenair has 1150# amphib and 1450 amphib kits.
Is the 1150 a different design compared to the CZ 1200? I read somewhere that the nose wheel was upgraded from the original.
Are CZ floats still being made and available overseas? (I have an email inquiry sent out)
Mark

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